2022-2023 General Celtics thread

Jimbodandy

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I'm a huge DARKO fan, but one thing that is important to put into context is what the team requires of player X also. Hard to say what healthy Heywould would have done here, because he healthy here for about five minutes. But what Brogdon does is basically exactly what this team needs (pre TL injury of course, now we have TWO needs). Both Brogdon and GH are jack-of-all-trades kind of guys, but the former has been specializing in drive and dish to shooters, beating his guy to the rim, and the occasional bomb. He's taking obvious layups and threes while unselfishly moving the ball with purpose and getting everyone easy looks. It really greases the skids for this team offensively.

Of course everyone loves guys who are instant buckets and can carry the load for a team, but a guy that both gobbles up free points and gets everyone looks is gold on a team with an Alpha and Beta scorer and a bunch of effective role players. I'm not sure that even peak Haywud would be a more valuable guy for this particular iteration of the team. Maybe that's crazy.
 

lovegtm

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Is Brogdon playing incredibly well or is he simply the same incredibly good player we’ve seen for years when he’s healthy? This isn’t some rotation guy/borderline starter like Derrick White……Brogdon, when healthy, is someone who is trying to sneak into a couple All-Star games if he’s on a team where he can put up the numbers to do so. I don’t have him far from Hayward when we got him from Utah…..maybe a tiny notch below and that’s it.

Edit: That clip above was Blake Griffin…..or Jared Sullinger?
Yes, I should have phrased it better. Brogdon is playing incredibly well because he's really good, and the Celtics are a great fit for his talents too.
 

benhogan

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I'm a huge DARKO fan, but one thing that is important to put into context is what the team requires of player X also. Hard to say what healthy Heywould would have done here, because he healthy here for about five minutes. But what Brogdon does is basically exactly what this team needs (pre TL injury of course, now we have TWO needs). Both Brogdon and GH are jack-of-all-trades kind of guys, but the former has been specializing in drive and dish to shooters, beating his guy to the rim, and the occasional bomb. He's taking obvious layups and threes while unselfishly moving the ball with purpose and getting everyone easy looks. It really greases the skids for this team offensively.

Of course everyone loves guys who are instant buckets and can carry the load for a team, but a guy that both gobbles up free points and gets everyone looks is gold on a team with an Alpha and Beta scorer and a bunch of effective role players. I'm not sure that even peak Haywud would be a more valuable guy for this particular iteration of the team. Maybe that's crazy.
Well, put. Fit and the right role players around the JAYs are key. That's what Brad has really excelled at as Pres/GM.

Vacuum analysis of players (not accusing RAD of doing this, he was just doing a GH comp) is fine, but every move made has been based on accentuating the JAYs and the style the team wants to play (switchy on D/wide on O). So what appears as a small overpay, ie White trade/a trade Ainge may have balked at, is the right move for this group.

Brad inherited a flawed team with 2 budding superstars surrounded by starters like Tristan Thompson (out of the NBA in a season), a hobbled score-first PG in Kemba Walker (out of the NBA in a season), and FA-to-be Evan Fournier (expensive Knick bench flunky). Plus a bench of Carsen Edwards, Tremont Waters, Semi Ojeleye, Aaron Nesmith, Romeo Langford, and Tacko Fall. He has surgically cut out the chaff and elevated/extended the guys that enhanced the JAYs. Brogdon may be Brad's finest masterstroke in what he gave up and what Malcolm corrects/adds to this team.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Strange game last night. The Celtics were down Al Horford ("lower back stiffness") and Luke Kornet (not with team for personal reasons). The Knicks almost seemed to have decided not to contest out to the three point line for most of the game. There was a brief period in the second quarter where they tried to extend out to the three point line and the Celtics responded by getting to the rim at will. On the flip sode, the Celtics interior defense was MIA for much of the game. The pattern of the game was for the Celtics to hit a few threes and buld a lead and then the Knicks to go on a run and erase it. The final score (133-118) makes this look like a blowout, but the Knicks trailed by only 2 with 45 seconds left in the third and by only 5 (119-114) with 4 minutes left in the game before the Celtics ended it with a 14-4 run to close it out.

Going into the game, the Celtics team record for threes in a game was 25 (I assume set during the Brad era) and the NBA record was 29. The Celtics hit 27 threes in this one (in 51 attempts), setting a new team record. Every Celtic who played hit at least one three, including the likes of Noah Vonleh and Blake, while the Celtics were led by Brown (6 of 11), Tatum (6 of 13), and Hauser (5 of 8). Brown and Brogdon (2 of 5) were the only Celtics who shot below 50% from three. When the Celtic opened hitting 5 of 6 from three and then immediately gave their lead back, I worried that this was going to be one of those nighs where the team was going to live or die based on its 3 point shooting. It was, but I needn't have worried.

Brown (30 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists) and Tatum (26 points, 4 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks) led the way offensively. Marcus Smart was hitting from three (3-5, 5-9 from the field overall) and had 13 points and 11 assists (vs 1 turnover). Brogdon's shooting touch left him (5-14 from the field, layups that fell for him on Friday did not today) but he also had 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and was tied for the team lead with a +20. Grant had a decent game, scoring 12 points and adding 4 rebounds, an assist, and 2 steals.

Sam Hauser scored 17 points in 21 minutes, most of which was his 5-8 shooting from three. He also drive a close out and layed the ball in just barely ahead of the help defense. And he had 3 rebounds and 2 assists. He does not automatically take every three he can - if the ball swings to him above the break and there is an open shooter in the corner, he will make the pass. He is now shooting 54.8% from three and is third on the team in makes (17 of 31).

With Horford and Kornet unavailable, Blake started and he, Grant, and Vonleh each played about a third of the game at C. In 15 minutes, Blake had 7 points on 3-4 shooting, 2 assists, 1 rebound against 2 turnovers. He was OK, and was +6 in his minutes. Vonleh, in 16 minutes, was also 3-4 from the field for 7 points, but he also led the team with 7 rebounds, and was +20 to tie for the team lead. He had 2 possessions in the second half where he just looked awful. One one, he got the ball in the corner, there was no closeout, but he passed up the shot and dribbled the ball off his foot instead. Laster in the game he got the ball in the corner and knocked down the three. But Vonleh was a positive overall in this game - the Celtics effort on defense and on the glass was lacking in this one, and he was out there working hard.

All in all, hard to read too much into this one, other than to say that the Celtics are a better offnesive and shooting team than they were last year.
 

lovegtm

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Strange game last night. The Celtics were down Al Horford ("lower back stiffness") and Luke Kornet (not with team for personal reasons). The Knicks almost seemed to have decided not to contest out to the three point line for most of the game. There was a brief period in the second quarter where they tried to extend out to the three point line and the Celtics responded by getting to the rim at will. On the flip sode, the Celtics interior defense was MIA for much of the game. The pattern of the game was for the Celtics to hit a few threes and buld a lead and then the Knicks to go on a run and erase it. The final score (133-118) makes this look like a blowout, but the Knicks trailed by only 2 with 45 seconds left in the third and by only 5 (119-114) with 4 minutes left in the game before the Celtics ended it with a 14-4 run to close it out.

Going into the game, the Celtics team record for threes in a game was 25 (I assume set during the Brad era) and the NBA record was 29. The Celtics hit 27 threes in this one (in 51 attempts), setting a new team record. Every Celtic who played hit at least one three, including the likes of Noah Vonleh and Blake, while the Celtics were led by Brown (6 of 11), Tatum (6 of 13), and Hauser (5 of 8). Brown and Brogdon (2 of 5) were the only Celtics who shot below 50% from three. When the Celtic opened hitting 5 of 6 from three and then immediately gave their lead back, I worried that this was going to be one of those nighs where the team was going to live or die based on its 3 point shooting. It was, but I needn't have worried.

Brown (30 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists) and Tatum (26 points, 4 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks) led the way offensively. Marcus Smart was hitting from three (3-5, 5-9 from the field overall) and had 13 points and 11 assists (vs 1 turnover). Brogdon's shooting touch left him (5-14 from the field, layups that fell for him on Friday did not today) but he also had 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and was tied for the team lead with a +20. Grant had a decent game, scoring 12 points and adding 4 rebounds, an assist, and 2 steals.

Sam Hauser scored 17 points in 21 minutes, most of which was his 5-8 shooting from three. He also drive a close out and layed the ball in just barely ahead of the help defense. And he had 3 rebounds and 2 assists. He does not automatically take every three he can - if the ball swings to him above the break and there is an open shooter in the corner, he will make the pass. He is now shooting 54.8% from three and is third on the team in makes (17 of 31).

With Horford and Kornet unavailable, Blake started and he, Grant, and Vonleh each played about a third of the game at C. In 15 minutes, Blake had 7 points on 3-4 shooting, 2 assists, 1 rebound against 2 turnovers. He was OK, and was +6 in his minutes. Vonleh, in 16 minutes, was also 3-4 from the field for 7 points, but he also led the team with 7 rebounds, and was +20 to tie for the team lead. He had 2 possessions in the second half where he just looked awful. One one, he got the ball in the corner, there was no closeout, but he passed up the shot and dribbled the ball off his foot instead. Laster in the game he got the ball in the corner and knocked down the three. But Vonleh was a positive overall in this game - the Celtics effort on defense and on the glass was lacking in this one, and he was out there working hard.

All in all, hard to read too much into this one, other than to say that the Celtics are a better offnesive and shooting team than they were last year.
I think you hint at why the Knicks weren't closing out hard to 3: the Celtics destroyed them getting to the rim whenever they did. I assume this was a conscious strategy to pack the paint, which the Celtics (finally?) have enough elite shooters to pick apart.

The late 2nd quarter Celtics defense was a complete embarrassment from an effort and execution standpoint. But I've learned at this point to not read tons into early November b2b effort, and just be glad for the W.
 

ugmo33

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Since Tatum and Brown have an overall net rating around 0, and Horford and Smart are well below, I'd say the latter two haven't been particularly good. Smart's shooting is a good part of that, but they also have the worst DRatings of the regulars as well. Smart I think is dinged. Both could maybe use a game or two off and/or fewer in game minutes.
This matches the eye test for me. Al, in particular, has looked bad on D. Doesn't look as springy on switches and has even looked a little lost in post against bigs like Jarrett Allen and Vucevic. Marcus seems like Marcus and his shooting will come and go but I think his defense has been pretty good so far.

So far I think Brogdon has looked like our 2nd best player after Tatum....
 

lovegtm

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View: https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1589275491466645504?s=20&t=QNG8SFb5_fzNCrukDMGVQQ

Adam Himmelsbach: Jayson Tatum has been waiting for Sam Hauser to come up with a 3-pt celebration, so he was stunned Saturday when he heard Hauser yell “Boom (expletive)” after one. But it was a good description of the Celtics’ record-setting night.
Hauser has some swagger on his shot. He's really, really elite at shooting (even by NBA standards), and he knows it.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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That win was glorious given the shooting and it also felt good that they effectively made light work of the Knicks, on the road, during the second night of a B2B. That would not have happened last season - we know this.

Its one early season game that means almost nothing in the big picture but I do know what to make of this game and it was fun as hell. Gotta enjoy it because you know the lid will go back on the bucket soon.

On a related note, Hauser's development on both sides of the floor is so huge. If sustainable, it potentially gives Brad a bunch of flexibility when he goes shopping for their championship talisman. Especially if PTL is back or at least partly back.
 

lovegtm

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That win was glorious given the shooting and it also felt good that they effectively made light work of the Knicks, on the road, during the second night of a B2B. That would not have happened last season - we know this.

Its one early season game that means almost nothing in the big picture but I do know what to make of this game and it was fun as hell. Gotta enjoy it because you know the lid will go back on the bucket soon.

On a related note, Hauser's development on both sides of the floor is so huge. If sustainable, it potentially gives Brad a bunch of flexibility when he goes shopping for their championship talisman. Especially if PTL is back or at least partly back.
Yes, this would have ended up as a bad loss last year. For all the focus issues in the 2nd quarter of this one, they locked down and played a very good 2nd half on both ends. The 3rd quarter was less close than it looked due to Brunson being unable to miss tough midrangers.

Having Hauser be this guy on both ends is huge, as you say. Makes the Gallo injury pretty much moot imo, and means that C is the only position Brad needs to upgrade.
 

TripleOT

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The way this team is spacing the floor and shooting the three ball with accuracy, imagine if they had a athletic rim running rebounder/dunker.

It’s really painful to watch the corpse of Blake Griffin, who looks like he can barely walk. I can understand why they’re trying to hang onto him as a fourth big, but I’d rather see at least one live bodied big get some minutes. Maybe they value pick setting more than rim running in with open spaces, but to me, this offense would be even more supercharged if Kabengele could play some minutes (and will be when TL gets back)

Maybe he’s not ready or skilled enough to play real minutes on a contending team, but are Vonleh, Kornet, or creaky Blake Griffin? Or maybe they really don’t care what happens with those back up big minutes in the first few months of the regular season, because they know they’re going to get a buyout ring chaser big who will be a better fit for the playoff run, like Nerlins Noel.
 

lovegtm

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Talked about the spacing advantage with Grant/Hauser after the Bulls game, and Mazzulla clearly is seeing the same thing.

Grant played C down the stretch, and on the Tatum basket that mostly put the game away (126-116 with 2:25 left), Hartenstein was too hugged up on Grant in the strongside corner to really dig on Tatum's blow-by of Randle:

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=560&GameID=0022200135&Season=2022-23&flag=1&title=Tatum 2' Driving Layup (26 PTS)

I expect to see more stuff like this as the season goes to keep the closing lineups maximally spaced out. This was wayyy better crunch-time offense than we've seen in awhile from the Cs.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Having Hauser be this guy on both ends is huge, as you say. Makes the Gallo injury pretty much moot imo, and means that C is the only position Brad needs to upgrade.
The Gallo injury turned out to be a godsend as Hauser may not have had the opportunity for minutes here. We would have found that out after the fact as we have with Strus and Javonte Green.

That win was glorious given the shooting and it also felt good that they effectively made light work of the Knicks, on the road, during the second night of a B2B. That would not have happened last season - we know this.
One note. The Knicks were on as bad if not worse spot having won a hard fought game in Philly the previous night.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The way this team is spacing the floor and shooting the three ball with accuracy, imagine if they had a athletic rim running rebounder/dunker.

It’s really painful to watch the corpse of Blake Griffin, who looks like he can barely walk. I can understand why they’re trying to hang onto him as a fourth big, but I’d rather see at least one live bodied big get some minutes. Maybe they value pick setting more than rim running in with open spaces, but to me, this offense would be even more supercharged if Kabengele could play some minutes (and will be when TL gets back)

Maybe he’s not ready or skilled enough to play real minutes on a contending team, but are Vonleh, Kornet, or creaky Blake Griffin? Or maybe they really don’t care what happens with those back up big minutes in the first few months of the regular season, because they know they’re going to get a buyout ring chaser big who will be a better fit for the playoff run, like Nerlins Noel.
They are 6-3 and planning for Rob's return which will have a big impact. If there is a problem with Rob, I think they will be looking to make a big deal for a big at the deadline. Not a waiver wire or street FA guy but a legit guy they need to trade value for.
 

Just a bit outside

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The way this team is spacing the floor and shooting the three ball with accuracy, imagine if they had a athletic rim running rebounder/dunker.

It’s really painful to watch the corpse of Blake Griffin, who looks like he can barely walk. I can understand why they’re trying to hang onto him as a fourth big, but I’d rather see at least one live bodied big get some minutes. Maybe they value pick setting more than rim running in with open spaces, but to me, this offense would be even more supercharged if Kabengele could play some minutes (and will be when TL gets back)

Maybe he’s not ready or skilled enough to play real minutes on a contending team, but are Vonleh, Kornet, or creaky Blake Griffin? Or maybe they really don’t care what happens with those back up big minutes in the first few months of the regular season, because they know they’re going to get a buyout ring chaser big who will be a better fit for the playoff run, like Nerlins Noel.
I think they want to see more of Kornet. Brad spoke really highly of Kornet and he was running with the ones for a practice or two before he got hurt. I am skeptical and expect an upgrade at some point. I also don’t think they care that much for the first few months and Brad won’t make a rushed trade just to fill a spot.
 

joe dokes

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The way this team is spacing the floor and shooting the three ball with accuracy, imagine if they had a athletic rim running rebounder/dunker.

It’s really painful to watch the corpse of Blake Griffin, who looks like he can barely walk. I can understand why they’re trying to hang onto him as a fourth big, but I’d rather see at least one live bodied big get some minutes. Maybe they value pick setting more than rim running in with open spaces, but to me, this offense would be even more supercharged if Kabengele could play some minutes (and will be when TL gets back)

Maybe he’s not ready or skilled enough to play real minutes on a contending team, but are Vonleh, Kornet, or creaky Blake Griffin? Or maybe they really don’t care what happens with those back up big minutes in the first few months of the regular season, because they know they’re going to get a buyout ring chaser big who will be a better fit for the playoff run, like Nerlins Noel.
I dont think they actually expected much from Griffin on the court, no matter what they say. He's probably perfect to be the 15th man. ("The Haslem.") Seems like a good guy. A lot of the players remember watching him be great in a relatively current era, so he has that cred. It took 3 guys being out to get him real minutes. That Kornet and Vonleh are ahead of him of the depth chart doesn't mean that Griffin is the one that has to go but it proves your poin..
I've always has an irrational like of Noel's game, and have always thought that every team that got him was better for it. (warning: not verified).
 

lexrageorge

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Honestly struggling to understand the angst over Kornet and Blake. 14th and 15th players on any NBA roster are going to be pretty bad. Blake fills a role for now. He's not good, but the first couple months of the season are going to be the time for Stevens and Mazzulla to determine what they have to work with and the most urgent needs to fill. The early workout reports on Rob Williams are encouraging if they are to be believed. They will be fine.
 

radsoxfan

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Both Brogdon and GH are jack-of-all-trades kind of guys, but the former has been specializing in drive and dish to shooters, beating his guy to the rim, and the occasional bomb. He's taking obvious layups and threes while unselfishly moving the ball with purpose and getting everyone easy looks. It really greases the skids for this team offensively.

Of course everyone loves guys who are instant buckets and can carry the load for a team, but a guy that both gobbles up free points and gets everyone looks is gold on a team with an Alpha and Beta scorer and a bunch of effective role players. I'm not sure that even peak Haywud would be a more valuable guy for this particular iteration of the team. Maybe that's crazy.
I don't think it's crazy, I definitely hear the "fit" idea. The Celtics don't need another elite wing as much as someone like Brogdon right now.

But I do think comparing peak Hayward to Brogdon in a general sense undersells what what Hayward was capable of before his injury.
 

lovegtm

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Honestly struggling to understand the angst over Kornet and Blake. 14th and 15th players on any NBA roster are going to be pretty bad. Blake fills a role for now. He's not good, but the first couple months of the season are going to be the time for Stevens and Mazzulla to determine what they have to work with and the most urgent needs to fill. The early workout reports on Rob Williams are encouraging if they are to be believed. They will be fine.
The angst is pretty straightforward: we don't know whether Rob's injuries will be chronic, and there's a high enough chance they are that Kornet and Blake could see playoff minutes, absent an acquisition.

I'm not freaking out in Nov, but I'd feel uncomfortable if they went to the playoffs, as title contenders, with "hope Rob stays healthy" as the only plan.
 

lexrageorge

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The angst is pretty straightforward: we don't know whether Rob's injuries will be chronic, and there's a high enough chance they are that Kornet and Blake could see playoff minutes, absent an acquisition.

I'm not freaking out in Nov, but I'd feel uncomfortable if they went to the playoffs, as title contenders, with "hope Rob stays healthy" as the only plan.
If there is any concern in the Celtics training room about TL's progress in December/January, Stevens would almost certainly swing a deal for a big (barring any unforseen circumstances). He hasn't hesitated in making the requisite deals yet.

If Williams appears healthy, the calculus may change a bit, as I could see Stevens being more discerning about the potential cost in trade assets. But I tend to doubt he wants Blake starting playoff games either.
 

Euclis20

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The angst is pretty straightforward: we don't know whether Rob's injuries will be chronic, and there's a high enough chance they are that Kornet and Blake could see playoff minutes, absent an acquisition.

I'm not freaking out in Nov, but I'd feel uncomfortable if they went to the playoffs, as title contenders, with "hope Rob stays healthy" as the only plan.
It's not just about having Kornet/Blake/Vonleh as the first center off the bench, it's that Horford looks like he's aged 5 years since the playoffs. He was arguably the Celtics 3rd best player this past spring, now everything other than his minutes are down. Old Horford and brittle Williams looked like a risky play in last year's playoffs (and it largely paid off, with Horford performing above expectations and Rob playing most games, if not at 100%), and the situation is much more tenuous now. I think that no matter what happens with Rob, a deal for a playoff rotation big is at the top of the list.
 

lovegtm

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It's not just about having Kornet/Blake/Vonleh as the first center off the bench, it's that Horford looks like he's aged 5 years since the playoffs. He was arguably the Celtics 3rd best player this past spring, now everything other than his minutes are down. Old Horford and brittle Williams looked like a risky play in last year's playoffs (and it largely paid off, with Horford performing above expectations and Rob playing most games, if not at 100%), and the situation is much more tenuous now. I think that no matter what happens with Rob, a deal for a playoff rotation big is at the top of the list.
Yeah, I should have added that. Horford is clearly approaching his expiration date, and the team might need another quality C even if Rob is totally good to go.

Fortunately, the Cs are learning to play smaller lineups with Rob out, so no more need to carry 3 quality Cs like last year.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah, I should have added that. Horford is clearly approaching his expiration date, and the team might need another quality C even if Rob is totally good to go.

Fortunately, the Cs are learning to play smaller lineups with Rob out, so no more need to carry 3 quality Cs like last year.
Yeah. The problem isn't the flotsam deep depth. They are fine as depth. The problem is that we're down a starter and need to baby our other, aged big. I wasn't that worried about a #3 center. That's not what we need though.
 

benhogan

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I've always has an irrational like of Noel's game, and have always thought that every team that got him was better for it. (warning: not verified).
BPM, DPBM, WS loves Noel...+/- has consistently hated him for seasons now
If he was released then adding him would be fine, but wouldn't give up assets for NN (not that you implied that)

Another BIG worth keeping a casual eye on: Daniel Gafford. Signed an extension (starts next season) last fall but the Wiz haven't been playing him much (Zingis at the 5) to start the year. Not sure what the game plan is there and it's a long shot but he's a lesser version of Rob.

Yes but he'll never be Max Strus or (@benhogan) Garrison Mathews. :cool:
Ha.

Hauser was definitely a Brad binky by the end of last season. He wasn't included in the flotsam haul for Brogdon and was immediately signed to a 3yr deal. Even after 158 minutes, he had more value than Nesmith by the end of last season. Most astute posters around here kind of foresaw SH getting pushed into a top-10 rotational role even though there was defensive hand-wringing.

Yea would have liked GM over Jabari Parkero_O or other end-of-the-roster crap to start last year but GMatt would have had zero impact. We're even seeing PP get buried on the bench after playing real minutes in the playoffs. This team is buttoned up at PG/Wing
 

lovegtm

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It's awesome that Hauser is proving himself capable defensively, but the defensive handwringing was pretty justified based on what we've seen with similar physical profiles like Duncan Robinson.

As it is, 3/$6M for a guy playing a lot of rotation minutes on a deep team is a better contract than you get even from hitting hard on a late 1st rounder.
 

Jimbodandy

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It's awesome that Hauser is proving himself capable defensively, but the defensive handwringing was pretty justified based on what we've seen with similar physical profiles like Duncan Robinson.

As it is, 3/$6M for a guy playing a lot of rotation minutes on a deep team is a better contract than you get even from hitting hard on a late 1st rounder.
YES to all of this.

Anyone who knew that Hauser would be this adequate defensively was Nostradamus. Hope was "maybe he's not generally awful." Fact is that he's fine. He holds his own almost all of the time. This is kinda huge for roster building.
 

benhogan

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The defensive hand-wringing was/is fair. BUT his size and the Celtics switchy scheme made him a better option than PP.

If anyone should go Tonya Harding it's Payton on Sam
 

slamminsammya

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I think Hauser is getting that Novak thing where guys completely do not respect him so go at him one on one which... even against a bad player is generally bad offense. It's nice to see.
 

lovegtm

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I think Hauser is getting that Novak thing where guys completely do not respect him so go at him one on one which... even against a bad player is generally bad offense. It's nice to see.
And the thing is, he's just not particularly bad defensively. He stays in front of guys most of the time (which was the big question mark), and does a good job of making sure the refs see his hands to lower foul equity for opposing players.

There was a play against the Knicks where he fouled with his hands down, and you could see him yelling at himself about exactly that right after. Kept them up the rest of the way.

The dude is just a solid, smart basketball player. He's not a gimmick.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I saw only about a quarter of last night's game. The team has obviously taken a step forward offensively from where it was last year. Some of that is Tatum having stepped his game up, some of that is having Brogdon, some of that is more off ball movement and cutting. The defense is more of a work in progress but holding Memphis to 106 is a good step forward.
 

lovegtm

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I saw only about a quarter of last night's game. The team has obviously taken a step forward offensively from where it was last year. Some of that is Tatum having stepped his game up, some of that is having Brogdon, some of that is more off ball movement and cutting. The defense is more of a work in progress but holding Memphis to 106 is a good step forward.
The positive for the defense now is that it's locked it down in crunch time a few games in a row. For a team that wants to go deep this spring, that's important. 82 games is a lot, and good teams need to be able to not give full effort for all of them and still pull out wins.
 

Fishy1

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The positive for the defense now is that it's locked it down in crunch time a few games in a row. For a team that wants to go deep this spring, that's important. 82 games is a lot, and good teams need to be able to not give full effort for all of them and still pull out wins.
And it's just really hard for them to be all that good defensively when they're playing Al and Grant and Vonleh at center. There's really no run deterrence out there a lot of the time. As long as Rob comes back healthy the defense will level up.
 

lovegtm

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And it's just really hard for them to be all that good defensively when they're playing Al and Grant and Vonleh at center. There's really no run deterrence out there a lot of the time. As long as Rob comes back healthy the defense will level up.
My dream is for them to acquire a Poeltl type, pay him ~$15M, and just run Rob and him out there for the next 4 years.

This team has so much shooting and ball-handling that Al's passing and shooting don't really make up for his defensive and rebounding decline.

The silver lining of Rob's being out is that the Cs are learning to play 1-big effectively--they just need that 1 big to be better.

Is it crazy to want to use Horford as the outgoing salary at the deadline to get a real C? Would alleviate tax concerns and make salary matching easy, which opens up the talent pool drastically. It's a bit cold to Horford late in his career, but he did kinda, you know, walk out on the team to a division rival 3 years ago.
 

Imbricus

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It's a bit cold to Horford late in his career, but he did kinda, you know, walk out on the team to a division rival 3 years ago.
I think Brad will keep him around, partly because of chemistry/mentor reasons. I think it would be a shock to the team if Horford were traded, almost like the Red Sox trading Vazquez (not a perfect analogy because obviously Horford has only spent part of his career here).
 

HomeRunBaker

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And the thing is, he's just not particularly bad defensively. He stays in front of guys most of the time (which was the big question mark), and does a good job of making sure the refs see his hands to lower foul equity for opposing players.

There was a play against the Knicks where he fouled with his hands down, and you could see him yelling at himself about exactly that right after. Kept them up the rest of the way.

The dude is just a solid, smart basketball player. He's not a gimmick.
Agreed. Much like Strus, he’s a very good positional defender who is going to struggle against certain individual matchups that Mazzulla can control much of the time with his minutes.
 

lovegtm

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I think Brad will keep him around, partly because of chemistry/mentor reasons. I think it would be a shock to the team if Horford were traded, almost like the Red Sox trading Vazquez (not a perfect analogy because obviously Horford has only spent part of his career here).
Yeah, I get it. At the same time, Brad has been extremely shrewd/calculating in his moves so far. If Myles Turner were available cheap, would he hesitate for a guy that walked out on him for the Sixers?
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah, I get it. At the same time, Brad has been extremely shrewd/calculating in his moves so far. If Myles Turner were available cheap, would he hesitate for a guy that walked out on him for the Sixers?
I'm the resident Turnerphile here, and even I wouldn't do that. Myles is an expiring like Al. Not sure that he's even an upgrade this year and doesn't help at all going forward.
 

lovegtm

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I'm the resident Turnerphile here, and even I wouldn't do that. Myles is an expiring like Al. Not sure that he's even an upgrade this year and doesn't help at all going forward.
I guess I'm just getting pretty bearish on Old Al.
 

benhogan

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My dream is for them to acquire a Poeltl type, pay him ~$15M, and just run Rob and him out there for the next 4 years.

This team has so much shooting and ball-handling that Al's passing and shooting don't really make up for his defensive and rebounding decline.

The silver lining of Rob's being out is that the Cs are learning to play 1-big effectively--they just need that 1 big to be better.

Is it crazy to want to use Horford as the outgoing salary at the deadline to get a real C? Would alleviate tax concerns and make salary matching easy, which opens up the talent pool drastically. It's a bit cold to Horford late in his career, but he did kinda, you know, walk out on the team to a division rival 3 years ago.
Al/Grant did a nice job building a wall at the nail to slow Ja down a hair. The defense was connected after Q1. Horford as the sole BIG isn't great, Grant is a better partner for him than White (although Horford/Grant combo wasn't great last season). BUT it does let the other 3 defend smaller.

Brad will eventually find that 3rd BIG/frontcourt player without moving a top 9 piece.

Shrink-wrapped Horford in short minutes (28 or less) would be optimal for the regular season. Al's real value is in the playoffs when facing Giannis or Embiid.

Poeltl would be perfect, may cost us unprotecting that pick swap :eek:
 

lovegtm

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Al/Grant did a nice job building a wall at the nail to slow Ja down a hair. The defense was connected after Q1. Horford as the sole BIG isn't great, Grant is a better partner for him than White (although Horford/Grant combo wasn't great last season). BUT it does let the other 3 defend smaller.

Brad will eventually find that 3rd BIG/frontcourt player without moving a top 9 piece.

Shrink-wrapped Horford in short minutes (28 or less) would be optimal for the regular season. Al's real value is in the playoffs when facing Giannis or Embiid.

Poeltl would be perfect, may cost us unprotecting that pick swap :eek:
If they could do Poeltl for PP/Gallo/2nds/unprotecting the swap, I do that in a cocaine heartbeat. Tatum is going to sign a supermax, and a starting caliber C meaningfully increases the Cs championship equity. Probably makes them title favorites, given how good the offense has been. And then you take a shot at signing Poeltl with some of the Horford money that's coming off.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I saw only about a quarter of last night's game. The team has obviously taken a step forward offensively from where it was last year. Some of that is Tatum having stepped his game up, some of that is having Brogdon, some of that is more off ball movement and cutting. The defense is more of a work in progress but holding Memphis to 106 is a good step forward.
MEM was at 98 with about 1:40 left too.
 

lovegtm

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Does the foul meter on the Celtics broadcast bug the shit out of anyone else?

They count team fouls all quarter (which is great, and inexcusable that all broadcasts don't do this). But then they are inconsistent about when they show the yellow "Bonus" stripe for a team being in the bonus. It should be completely automatic: as soon as the number hits 4 (or 1st under 2 mins), the yellow stripe goes on. Instead, they can wait minutes, or not do it at all.

Heads must roll.
 

benhogan

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If they could do Poeltl for PP/Gallo/2nds/unprotecting the swap, I do that in a cocaine heartbeat. Tatum is going to sign a supermax, and a starting caliber C meaningfully increases the Cs championship equity. Probably makes them title favorites, given how good the offense has been. And then you take a shot at signing Poeltl with some of the Horford money that's coming off.
that's the rough blueprint for taking this roster up to a 10-man rotation that can match up against anybody for the next 3 seasons.

After the Brogdon heist, Brad is back in Boston digging through couch cushions.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think Brad will keep him around, partly because of chemistry/mentor reasons. I think it would be a shock to the team if Horford were traded, almost like the Red Sox trading Vazquez (not a perfect analogy because obviously Horford has only spent part of his career here).
I’m kind of amazed at the lack of appreciation for Horford. We’re not in the finals without his games against Milwaukee. And, like Grant, the Celtics defense relies on Al being able to guard out to the perimeter. There are few teams if any that let their bigs be switched out onto wings as much as the Celtics did.

This is the last year of his deal, and if he does come back I would imagine the Celtics will be looking to pay less.