2022-2023 General Celtics thread

Jimbodandy

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Not that tricky, given his low salary for the on court value he brings. He doesn't need to be in full health to provide a positive return on that.
You're correct in one sense. If you're an acquiring team, the fear is not "we're paying this guy for 55 games per year". He's a bargain even for that. The fear is zero games a year. Even his modest salary is a waste if the man ends up not being able to play. His MRI probably looks like a street map of Boston.
 

Eddie Jurak

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You're correct in one sense. If you're an acquiring team, the fear is not "we're paying this guy for 55 games per year". He's a bargain even for that. The fear is zero games a year. Even his modest salary is a waste if the man ends up not being able to play. His MRI probably looks like a street map of Boston.
Sure, the fear. But the odds that this is RWs final NBA season are pretty low.

I think the real problem is that the Celtics aren’t going to get an offer that is more valuable to them than just keeping
Rob and hoping will meet/exceed the value of his contract.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You're correct in one sense. If you're an acquiring team, the fear is not "we're paying this guy for 55 games per year". He's a bargain even for that. The fear is zero games a year. Even his modest salary is a waste if the man ends up not being able to play. His MRI probably looks like a street map of Boston.
I stated after last years playoffs when he limped off the court following corrective surgery (which clearly didn’t correct anything) that I feared we have seen the best of Robert Williams. I still feel this way and don’t think he has any trade value of substance due to his physicals….so yes, I agree he’s more valuable on our roster to get out of him what we can while we can. He seems destined to be one in a long line of those “What ifs” which makes me sad.
 

tbrown_01923

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I stated after last years playoffs when he limped off the court following corrective surgery (which clearly didn’t correct anything) that I feared we have seen the best of Robert Williams. I still feel this way and don’t think he has any trade value of substance due to his physicals….so yes, I agree he’s more valuable on our roster to get out of him what we can while we can. He seems destined to be one in a long line of those “What ifs” which makes me sad.
You may be right about his physicals, but to me he just seems out of position this year. Maybe his reaction speed isn't as fast as it had been, maybe he is still getting back on the court. But I keep watching and asking myself "why is Rob anchored at the three point line". Maybe 1 step behind where he needs to be to be in position to alter a shot...
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I have thought to myself that Rob doesn't look as springy this year as he did before the knee injury. He's still a difference maker but to my eye test he's not quite right. Lots of layup lobs and one handed rebounds/tap outs instead of jumping over guys.
 

Fishy1

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I have thought to myself that Rob doesn't look as springy this year as he did before the knee injury. He's still a difference maker but to my eye test he's not quite right. Lots of layup lobs and one handed rebounds/tap outs instead of jumping over guys.
I've noticed this too, and wondered what of that is a conscious attempt to give his limbs a rest and what is a loss of springiness. I've seen him look like his old self at times, leaping suddenly to block a three-point attempt he shouldn't have any business contesting.
 

Jimbodandy

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I stated after last years playoffs when he limped off the court following corrective surgery (which clearly didn’t correct anything) that I feared we have seen the best of Robert Williams. I still feel this way and don’t think he has any trade value of substance due to his physicals….so yes, I agree he’s more valuable on our roster to get out of him what we can while we can. He seems destined to be one in a long line of those “What ifs” which makes me sad.
I think when it comes to meniscus repair we just don't know. If he really has bone on bone going on, it's obviously a problem. But is it a big enough problem that it will ultimately result in him not being able to play at all, or is it something where it can be managed with a 55-game, 28mpg workload?

I agree that his physicals would likely look awful to any doc, but as Eddie notes, he's really making peanuts by NBA standards now. His contract basically is the non taxpayer MLE. I think that it probably has value.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Teams are always willing to take a chance on talent. He has plenty of trade value
This really isn’t true when it comes to passing/not passing a medical physical. This is a guy that teams red-flagged prior to the draft due to his hip medica and took him off their draft boards entirely.
 

128

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Amid all this speculation about what trades, if any, the C's might make, they have a big game tonite at the Garden. It'll be a great opportunity to see how the current frontcourt matches up with Embiid.
 

lovegtm

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Amid all this speculation about what trades, if any, the C's might make, they have a big game tonite at the Garden. It'll be a great opportunity to see how the current frontcourt matches up with Embiid.
You mean Kornet?
 

128

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If the C's hopes of winning the NBA title hinge on Rob's availability, they're setting themselves up for major disappointment, in all likelihood. I love Time Lord, but it's one thing after another with him.
 

InstaFace

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Sure, sex is great, but have you tried beating a full-strength Philadelphia 76ers team that some people say is our biggest test in the East, when we have 3 starters out and lose Brown halfway through, and then have player-of-the-game level performances from FOUR bench players (Griffin, White, Kornet, Brogdon) and win by 8?

Somewhere, Red is lighting the fattest cigar he can lay his hands on.
 

Jakarta

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Sure, sex is great, but have you tried beating a full-strength Philadelphia 76ers team that some people say is our biggest test in the East, when we have 3 starters out and lose Brown halfway through, and then have player-of-the-game level performances from FOUR bench players (Griffin, White, Kornet, Brogdon) and win by 8?

Somewhere, Red is lighting the fattest cigar he can lay his hands on.
…with Tatum scoring 12.
 

DGreenwood

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Some interesting lineups tonight for sure. I think my favorite was watching Brogdon, White, Pritchard, Houser and Blake; with Houser raining 3s. It was a surreal experience.
 

Euclis20

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Hauser getting his shot back seems really significant.
When the Celtics offense was looking like the best ever for the first month+, it was in large part because they had 5 guys shooting around 45% from 3. Brogdon/Horford/Grant basically kept it up (and they should, they are all pretty good at hitting open 3s), but when Hauser/White slumped, the offense crashed back to earth. Obviously Hauser has had an incredible couple of games, but White is shooting .431 from 3 over his last 13 games (and he's had 2 or more makes in 8 straight games). If the rest of the roster (outside of Tatum/Brown/Smart) go back to 40%+ from 3, look out.
 

Ed Hillel

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Jayson Tatum has played in like 90% of his games.
Yes, and KG’s knee cost them 1-4 titles, Hayward’s leg snapped in half in 5 minutes, Jaylen got injured before the Nets, Williams’s knee is falling off, Gallinari’s fell off, Smart is falling apart, oh and there was the ol OD in a Maryland frat house and Reggie Lewis. The last 35 years have been brutal.

Not that Jaylen’s facebreak is major, but again we’re sitting here playing with 1 starter in a big game against the 2 seed before the ASB.
 

the moops

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Yes, and KG’s knee cost them 1-4 titles, Hayward’s leg snapped in half in 5 minutes, Jaylen got injured before the Nets, Williams’s knee is falling off, Smart is falling apart, oh and there was the ol OD in a Maryland frat house and Reggie Lewis. The last 35 years have been brutal.
Now do every other team
 

Ed Hillel

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Now do every other team
Struggling to find one with 2 major deaths and something the equivalent of KG in the midst of what probably would have been a 3-peat and maybe another but ok you win, Celtics have the luck of the Irish.
 

luckiestman

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Now do every other team
i don’t think many title contending teams have had worse injury luck. For sure the Warriors lost a title because of Durant and Klay going down. Maybe Paul’s hammy cost the Rockets, idk. It’s not that many. Do we think Middleton cost the Bucks the title last year?
 

BigSoxFan

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i don’t think many title contending teams have had worse injury luck. For sure the Warriors lost a title because of Durant and Klay going down. Maybe Paul’s hammy cost the Rockets, idk. It’s not that many. Do we think Middleton cost the Bucks the title last year?
Spurs and Kawhi. They still haven’t recovered.
 

Cellar-Door

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i don’t think many title contending teams have had worse injury luck. For sure the Warriors lost a title because of Durant and Klay going down. Maybe Paul’s hammy cost the Rockets, idk. It’s not that many. Do we think Middleton cost the Bucks the title last year?
Decent chance of it. Injuries probably cost the Nets a title in 2021.. they took the champs 7 games losing by only 4 points without 2 of their 3 stars
 

luckiestman

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Spurs and Kawhi. They still haven’t recovered.
I don’t think they would have won that year and he chose to leave. Seemed like they had good luck with Duncan/Manu/Parker. Even if we say the Kawhi thing, I don’t think it’s as bad a history as Cs. You’re right to mention it.
 

luckiestman

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Decent chance of it. Injuries probably cost the Nets a title in 2021.. they took the champs 7 games losing by only 4 points without 2 of their 3 stars
That Nets team is a good one. That’s a documentary waiting to happen. Fuck them though.
 

bosockboy

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Yes, and KG’s knee cost them 1-4 titles, Hayward’s leg snapped in half in 5 minutes, Jaylen got injured before the Nets, Williams’s knee is falling off, Gallinari’s fell off, Smart is falling apart, oh and there was the ol OD in a Maryland frat house and Reggie Lewis. The last 35 years have been brutal.

Not that Jaylen’s facebreak is major, but again we’re sitting here playing with 1 starter in a big game against the 2 seed before the ASB.
Bias and Lewis alone trump any organization. It changed the power structure of the league for 12-15 years.
 

luckiestman

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Why are the Cs so good on the road? Or why are other good teams so much worse. Many teams have home records as good as ours. Why isn’t the Garden a better advantage?

61011
61012
 

lovegtm

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Decent chance of it. Injuries probably cost the Nets a title in 2021.. they took the champs 7 games losing by only 4 points without 2 of their 3 stars
Not to mention that, if they win that title, the vibes are probably a lot better the next year, and they keep Harden.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The potentially catastrophic injury to Brown aside, last night was quite a win - defeating a healthy Philly team without Smart, Al, Rob, only one half of Brown, and mostly subpar games from Brown (while he played) and Tatum.

Tatum and Brown played 55 combined minutes and shot 7-24 from the field (1-9 from three), did not get to the line (1-3 total), for a total of 16 points. They also combined for 6 turnovers of Boston's 13. Tatum had 8 rebounds and 9 assists, so he was not completely negative, but the Celtics aren't going to win many games with this level of contribution from the stars.

So, how did they win this?

Blake Griffin started at center and Philly simply did not cover him out to the three point line. I don't know whether this was a strategic decision by the coaching staff or Embiid just not wanting to get all the way out to him (I suspect the latter because there were a couple of contests), but Griffin was gifted with a bunch of open threes and he started knocking them down. He shot 5 of 8 from 3 for 15 points, including 3-3 in the first quarter, 0-2 in the second, 2-3 in the third. Also took a key charge in the second half.

Grant Williams also started and also was hitting his threes. He scored 15 points (in part by hitting 4-6 threes) and added 8 rebounds, 5 assists, and a steal. Led the team in minutes played with 39.

Derrick White was also excellent. He tied for the team lead with 19 points on 8-13 shooting (3 of 6 from three), along with 6 rebounds, 3 assists, and 2 of his best blocks of the season, including a critical 4th quarter chase down block on a Philly fast break while they were making their late run.

View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1623510901386084352?s=20&t=wlZWSRXERqeHwsf4YPp87Q


View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1623493124042510336?s=20&t=wlZWSRXERqeHwsf4YPp87Q


The Celtics also got 41 points off the bench, led, of course, by Brogdon's 19. Sam Hauser seems to have rediscovered his shot, and he shot 4-4 from three on the way to 14 points, along with 8 rebounds.

And then there is Luke Kornet. He played most of the non-Blake minutes at C (29), and had 8 points, 4 rebounds, an assist, and 3 blocks. He shot 3-3 from the field and really was an effective rim protector during his time in the game. He was an afterthought offensively, but scored 2 notably baskets on lobs. On one play, Tatum tossed one up for him and he caught it and reverse dunked it. On the other, with just under 4 minutes left, the Celtics had a bad offensive set where Philly knocked the ball out of bounds with 0.5 seconds on the shot clock. Mazzulla called time and set up a play where Tatum went towards the basket, drew Embiid's attention, and screened him off the play so that an wide open Kornet could catch an out of bounds lob from White.

View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1623497099634438146?s=20&t=imp1JXhzvxbkdJLGeqBNCg


View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1623514701593296898?s=20&t=imp1JXhzvxbkdJLGeqBNCg


All, in all, a great win, though it will be a pyrrhic one if Brown is seriously injured.
 

lovegtm

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The potentially catastrophic injury to Brown aside, last night was quite a win - defeating a healthy Philly team without Smart, Al, Rob, only one half of Brown, and mostly subpar games from Brown (while he played) and Tatum.

Tatum and Brown played 55 combined minutes and shot 7-24 from the field (1-9 from three), did not get to the line (1-3 total), for a total of 16 points. They also combined for 6 turnovers of Boston's 13. Tatum had 8 rebounds and 9 assists, so he was not completely negative, but the Celtics aren't going to win many games with this level of contribution from the stars.

So, how did they win this?

Blake Griffin started at center and Philly simply did not cover him out to the three point line. I don't know whether this was a strategic decision by the coaching staff or Embiid just not wanting to get all the way out to him (I suspect the latter because there were a couple of contests), but Griffin was gifted with a bunch of open threes and he started knocking them down. He shot 5 of 8 from 3 for 15 points, including 3-3 in the first quarter, 0-2 in the second, 2-3 in the third. Also took a key charge in the second half.

Grant Williams also started and also was hitting his threes. He scored 15 points (in part by hitting 4-6 threes) and added 8 rebounds, 5 assists, and a steal. Led the team in minutes played with 39.

Derrick White was also excellent. He tied for the team lead with 19 points on 8-13 shooting (3 of 6 from three), along with 6 rebounds, 3 assists, and 2 of his best blocks of the season, including a critical 4th quarter chase down block on a Philly fast break while they were making their late run.

View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1623510901386084352?s=20&t=wlZWSRXERqeHwsf4YPp87Q


View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1623493124042510336?s=20&t=wlZWSRXERqeHwsf4YPp87Q


The Celtics also got 41 points off the bench, led, of course, by Brogdon's 19. Sam Hauser seems to have rediscovered his shot, and he shot 4-4 from three on the way to 14 points, along with 8 rebounds.

And then there is Luke Kornet. He played most of the non-Blake minutes at C (29), and had 8 points, 4 rebounds, an assist, and 3 blocks. He shot 3-3 from the field and really was an effective rim protector during his time in the game. He was an afterthought offensively, but scored 2 notably baskets on lobs. On one play, Tatum tossed one up for him and he caught it and reverse dunked it. On the other, with just under 4 minutes left, the Celtics had a bad offensive set where Philly knocked the ball out of bounds with 0.5 seconds on the shot clock. Mazzulla called time and set up a play where Tatum went towards the basket, drew Embiid's attention, and screened him off the play so that an wide open Kornet could catch an out of bounds lob from White.

View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1623497099634438146?s=20&t=imp1JXhzvxbkdJLGeqBNCg


View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1623514701593296898?s=20&t=imp1JXhzvxbkdJLGeqBNCg


All, in all, a great win, though it will be a pyrrhic one if Brown is seriously injured.
Doesn't sound like the Brown injury is particularly serious in terms of missing huge time, so that's good.
 

jezza1918

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Tatum didn’t shoot well last night, but also took a season low 15 shots (repeated in 2 other games). It’s stands out because he did that despite being down 3.5 starters… he got a lot of praise in the post game for consistently making the right pass out of the double team. And whether it was a direct assist or hockey assist he was a huge reason they had so many wide open 3s. A 9/4 asst to turnover ratio is more than fine for him. Can they win 16 playoff games with him going 5-15? no. But they can sneak out a couple.
I actually think in some ways that performance shows a ton of maturity - huge game against a division rival, he still has an outside mvp shot…and still doesn’t chase the numbers.
 

lovegtm

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Tatum didn’t shoot well last night, but also took a season low 15 shots (repeated in 2 other games). It’s stands out because he did that despite being down 3.5 starters… he got a lot of praise in the post game for consistently making the right pass out of the double team. And whether it was a direct assist or hockey assist he was a huge reason they had so many wide open 3s. A 9/4 asst to turnover ratio is more than fine for him. Can they win 16 playoff games with him going 5-15? no. But they can sneak out a couple.
I actually think in some ways that performance shows a ton of maturity - huge game against a division rival, he still has an outside mvp shot…and still doesn’t chase the numbers.
The Sixers were going all-out to double him often above the 3-point line, and also to show lots of bodies in the lane. It wasn't always pretty, but he figured out how to make a lot of the plays he had to, which Embiid wasn't able to do as often against similarly extreme attention, and that was the difference.
 

lovegtm

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I also have to say, I love that, after all the takes in 2019 about how Brooklyn had leapfrogged the Celtics, the Nets got one 2nd round appearance and now are back to exactly where they started before KD and Kyrie came: a solid core of young roleplayers and a normal amount of picks going forward.

(Although now they don't control the picks, so can't tank)