2022 Dolphins: Our coach is cooler than yours

Shelterdog

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The one questionable thing about what McDaniel did is he absolutely went with the story that the stumble on Sunday was because of a back spasm. I don’t even know if he’d seen the video when he said that but everyone’s apparent willingness to accept a players absurd story about why the player didn’t have a head injury (and by the way if they didn’t accept that story Tua goes straight into the protocol) is the key to why the system broke down here
 

sodenj5

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The one questionable thing about what McDaniel did is he absolutely went with the story that the stumble on Sunday was because of a back spasm. I don’t even know if he’d seen the video when he said that but everyone’s apparent willingness to accept a players absurd story about why the player didn’t have a head injury (and by the way if they didn’t accept that story Tua goes straight into the protocol) is the key to why the system broke down here
People are making this out to be some high level conspiracy.

McDaniel’s role is listening to the medical staff and the independent neurologist, and trusting them.

I agree that there seems to have been an obvious flaw, or flaws, within the system that allowed Tua back into the game Sunday, but Mike McDaniel is literally just repeating what the medical staff diagnosed.

Is he supposed to say “the trained professionals told me that Tua didn’t have a concussion and was cleared to play, but I leaned on my history degree from Yale and overruled them.”
 

AlNipper49

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It’s also likely that Tua said that he was fine. Not that a coach should take that as gospel but if you have everyone saying it wasn’t, and you get paid to put players into positions to move a little ball 100 yards, then it is probably best that you believe them.

It is also possible that those people were correct. It’s more likely that people playing Internet Doctor are incorrect than some vast conspiracy theory that the NFL is quieting news on a quarterback who was kinda sorta shitty until 3.5 games ago could appear on a streaming service that probably not many people were able to even find (I have had Amazon Prime since the day it came out and had forgotten it was in Prime. I just assumed it was a YoutubeTV fuckup that it wasn’t broadcasting)
 

8slim

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Are people suggesting that last night’s hit wouldn’t have caused a concussion had Tua not been concussed the week prior?

Because that hit last night was violent as hell.

FWIW, on the postgame show Fitz said he spent Wednesday afternoon interviewing Tua and he seemed completely himself and fine. So I guess this all hinges on whether or not you think he should have been pulled from Sunday’s game, and last nights, because of the stagger on Sunday.
 
Is he supposed to say “the trained professionals told me that Tua didn’t have a concussion and was cleared to play, but I leaned on my history degree from Yale and overruled them.”
This doesn't have to be that black-and-white. McDaniel could have pressed the medical team for specifics beyond "Is he good to go?", asking about the risks of a second first concussion (ha) and whether or not he might be right to exercise an element of prudence - not just as a human being, but as a coach looking down the road at the season as a whole. If he totally washed his hands of the situation and let the medics make the call for him without asking any prying questions, that would be an abdication of his responsibilities as a coach, at least to some extent.

I mean, there's certainly a world in which McDaniel thinks his team is likely to be in a letdown spot last night after Sunday's exertions, decides to bench Tua not only for safety's sake but also as a way of motivating his team to focus on Cincinnati, and comes out last Monday and says, "Tua has been cleared to play, but given the tight turnaround we're going to take it very careful with him - we think Teddy gives us an excellent chance to win, and we're thinking about all 17 games on our schedule." He would have gotten much more praise for taking that stance than criticism, wouldn't he?
 
Aug 9, 2015
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People are making this out to be some high level conspiracy.

McDaniel’s role is listening to the medical staff and the independent neurologist, and trusting them.

I agree that there seems to have been an obvious flaw, or flaws, within the system that allowed Tua back into the game Sunday, but Mike McDaniel is literally just repeating what the medical staff diagnosed.

Is he supposed to say “the trained professionals told me that Tua didn’t have a concussion and was cleared to play, but I leaned on my history degree from Yale and overruled them.”
I think his common sense, empathy and concern for Tua’s long term health would have been enough here and I hope he uses that going forward.
But to be clear, I agree that issues of health should be primarily left to the medical professionals faithfully applying an appropriate protocol, which I guess we’ll find out was the case here or not.
 

Devizier

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It’s also likely that Tua said that he was fine.
Almost certainly true, but it is the job of authority (the coach, but especially medical authority) to make that call even when it cuts against a player’s wishes. These are dicey evaluations at the time and we have the benefit of hindsight, but it’s fair to seek explanations from responsible parties.
 

jose melendez

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How is the independent neurologist hired? They don't work for the team, which is good. I vaguely recall the NFLPA does the hiring. Is that right?

Players wanting to go back in even when they're concussed is a big part of the problem too.
 

rymflaherty

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Woke up a few times last night and found myself just seeing Tua convulsing with his fingers contorted.
That moment is haunting, not sure how long it will last, but as of now I have no desire to even watch football this weekend.

Also, much of the discussion on this site has made my head want to explode, I don’t understand how people here are approaching any of this like football players and coaches are well adjusted individuals, like they aren’t wired completely differently and haven’t spent the majority of their life putting their health and well being at risk. The entire reason the protocol exists is an acknowledgment of this and the fact that their definition of due diligence and fine isn’t the same as the medical community.
Any criticism should be at the doctor, process and league.
And personally, I find any outrage on the matter disingenuous, unless you’re one of the few who see football as the barbaric collision sport it is, and the league as the morally questionable corporation it is, and don’t watch or support it.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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If the Stephen Ross TB12 coup had worked and TB had gotten his clock cleaned five days ago do we think he'd have started last night? I say there's zero chance.
 

8slim

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If the Stephen Ross TB12 coup had worked and TB had gotten his clock cleaned five days ago do we think he'd have started last night? I say there's zero chance.
Wasn’t it suggested that Brady suffered concussions that weren’t reported and played? Given Brady’s fanatical obsession with staying on the field I think he’d be among the most likely to dodge a concussion diagnosis and play.
 

sodenj5

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Wasn’t it suggested that Brady suffered concussions that weren’t reported and played? Given Brady’s fanatical obsession with staying on the field I think he’d be among the most likely to dodge a concussion diagnosis and play.
We’re talking about hypothetical Brady, not actual Brady. Giselle’s English isn’t even that great. She’s probably confused concussion with percussion. Tom was taking up the Xylophone in the offseason.
 

DJnVa

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It's almost like letting him back on the field immediately after a serious brain injury last week was a bad idea. I wish there was scientific evidence that repeated brain injuries - especially when the brain hasn't recovered from previous injuries - is really, really fucking bad.

This isn't a "fuck the Dolphins" post. Not their fault. Shame on the NFL.

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisNowinski1/status/1575659558613172224?t=HdYXzfo1EAPWDf5z9rbI9g&s=19

This is that guy's tweet BEFORE the game.

 

CoffeeNerdness

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Wasn’t it suggested that Brady suffered concussions that weren’t reported and played? Given Brady’s fanatical obsession with staying on the field I think he’d be among the most likely to dodge a concussion diagnosis and play.
Thanks, I had forgotten about that. His coming clean on the concussions and being older and wiser with a strong support system around him may have kept him from playing last night versus the young kid coming into his own and feeling added pressure to stay on the field. I could be 100% wrong.
 
Aug 9, 2015
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Thanks, I had forgotten about that. His coming clean on the concussions and being older and wiser with a strong support system around him may have kept him from playing last night versus the young kid coming into his own and feeling added pressure to stay on the field. I could be 100% wrong.
Brady hawked concussion water. I don’t think he’s the best gauge here. What would be better is if guys like Aikman who have a history and a current platform would speak honestly about the issue.
 

cshea

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I think the worst thing McDaniel said last night was that Tua was diagnosed with a concussion and "nothing more serious." That's a very alarming comment.
 

BaseballJones

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Almost certainly true, but it is the job of authority (the coach, but especially medical authority) to make that call even when it cuts against a player’s wishes. These are dicey evaluations at the time and we have the benefit of hindsight, but it’s fair to seek explanations from responsible parties.
And if the medical authority fully clears him to play...? (which is what happened)
 

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Of all the flaws in the protocols, and all the suggestions for improving them, I think the biggest change needs to happen with ownership: Don’t hold it against a coach, don’t allow it to negatively influence their evaluation, if they lose games because they erred on the side of caution and held out a key player(s) in those games. Make that culture change at the top, and I think you’d see a lot more acting in the best interests of the players health all the way down the line. Given their nature and history, I have little faith of this ever happening. But I think it would have an enormous impact if it did.
 

wilked

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Based on what I’ve seen and read, McDaniels has to go. Otherwise the league truly has no leg to stand on for player safety
 

Jimbodandy

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This is that guy's tweet BEFORE the game.

This.

Everyone saw what happened last game. Nobody gives a shit.

The most public sports TBI guy in the world basically fucking predicted this before the game last night.

I'm encouraged that debate here is on who messed up, rather than IF someone messed up. That's progress, I suppose. I still think that the answer is "anyone who let him on the field since the first hit."
 

sodenj5

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Based on what I’ve seen and read, McDaniels has to go. Otherwise the league truly has no leg to stand on for player safety
Based on what? I don’t want to single you out, but unless there is a trail of messages or texts or anything that proves that Mike McDaniel knew that Tua had a concussion on before last night’s game, how is he culpable as the fall guy for a failure in the league’s protocol?
 

IdiotKicker

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I don’t blame McDaniel for Tua continuing to play on Sunday. During a game, a head coach basically just receives reports from his assistants and medical staff.

“Player X is out.”
“Player Y is still being evaluated.”
“Player Z is good to go.”

I do think the decision to play him yesterday and the way McDaniel talks about concussions is more troubling, as that is something under his direct control. But if a medical staff tells a coach a player is fine to return to a game, there is not enough time nor expertise for a coach to say differently in real-time. Separate issue from being able to assess whether Tua should have played last night and minimizing the impact of his concussion.
 

Average Reds

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The elephant in the room with this discussion is that the mere existence of the concussion protocol is a tacit admission that players, coaches and team medical staffs cannot be trusted to properly evaluate player health in cases of head injury.

In this case, it seems that the concussion protocol can’t even be counted on, because anyone claiming that a back injury caused the symptoms we saw in Tua last Sunday is a stone cold liar.

The NFL is a meat grinder and McDaniel himself is simply a cog in the machine. He’s not personally responsible, but if this blows up, he’ll take the blame, because he, like every player and coach, is expendable in order to protect the league.
 

thehitcat

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Maybe a mod could break out the Tua Concussion talk. I think the Dolphin's fans should have a place to talk about their team and I think people should be able to talk about Tua but I don't know that these convos need to be here. It was horrifying but it literally could have happened to any team and any qb. If we break it out from the team thread we can probably have more constructive conversations about what needs to be done to fix the protocol and who needs to be held responsible.
 

wilked

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Based on what? I don’t want to single you out, but unless there is a trail of messages or texts or anything that proves that Mike McDaniel knew that Tua had a concussion on before last night’s game, how is he culpable as the fall guy for a failure in the league’s protocol?
Video shows Tua clearly concussed last week. I’m going to give him a pass for the in-game decision as that needs to be medical staff. After the game there is significant / intense scrutiny on the medical teams decision, including inquiry by the league. Here is where the overall leader (McDaniel) must necessarily step in and can no longer just defer to his medical staff - he has to get involved. That original video is damning, you can see that in the doctor tweets such as above. At this point a reasonable leader may recognize that his medical staff may be both biased to under diagnose a concussion and also may simply be wrong, and you get a more independent review / analysis. You don’t hide behind their initial diagnosis of back spasm because it doesn’t pass the “sniff test”.

even if you don’t want to go that far, you hold Tua out to be conservative. You do that even though it hurts your competitiveness. You do it to say that you hold safety above wins and you’re willing to make an unpopular decision in the name of protecting your players.

I’m surprised you are defending him to be honest. I can see defending the ingame decision last week, but putting him back out to me is fully indefensible
 

lexrageorge

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Based on what I’ve seen and read, McDaniels has to go. Otherwise the league truly has no leg to stand on for player safety
Well, I know Raiders fans want to see Josh McDaniels fired, but he had nothing to do with any decision made by Mike McDaniel.

Not sure why McDaniel needs to go; he was listening to what his medical people were telling him. Coaches cannot and should not be making medical decisions; that is what the team's medical staff is for.
 

sonofgodcf

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Based on what? I don’t want to single you out, but unless there is a trail of messages or texts or anything that proves that Mike McDaniel knew that Tua had a concussion on before last night’s game, how is he culpable as the fall guy for a failure in the league’s protocol?
I'd say that McDaniel's decision to let Tua play, both last Sunday and today, were obvious failures by the HC. Safety of your players should be the #1 priority, regardless of level play.

That said, I don't think he deserves to be fired, I think this just highlights the sham of the league's concussion protocols. They let some "independent" third party green light star players to play when it's obvious they shouldn't, and then the HC gets the fig leaf of saying they're just following medical advice. The league, team, med staff and HC all look awful for this, but it happened by design.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'd say that McDaniel's decision to let Tua play, both last Sunday and today, were obvious failures by the HC. Safety of your players should be the #1 priority, regardless of level play.

That said, I don't think he deserves to be fired, I think this just highlights the sham of the league's concussion protocols. They let some "independent" third party green light star players to play when it's obvious they shouldn't, and then the HC gets the fig leaf of saying they're just following medical advice. The league, team, med staff and HC all look awful for this, but it happened by design.

The NFLPA demanded an investigation of Tua's Sunday injury on Sunday.

There is no plausible path to "how's the coach supposed to know?". Everyone knew. McDaniel is no worse than anyone else who had the ability to do something.
 

BaseballJones

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I'd say that McDaniel's decision to let Tua play, both last Sunday and today, were obvious failures by the HC. Safety of your players should be the #1 priority, regardless of level play.

That said, I don't think he deserves to be fired, I think this just highlights the sham of the league's concussion protocols. They let some "independent" third party green light star players to play when it's obvious they shouldn't, and then the HC gets the fig leaf of saying they're just following medical advice. The league, team, med staff and HC all look awful for this, but it happened by design.
This is a terrible situation, and I understand your perspective here. But the question is: If Tua looked JUST FINE in the days following last week's game, and if the team's (and league's ??) medical experts completely cleared him, why would the coach - who isn't remotely a medical expert at all - not play him? If medical experts say, look, he's actually fine, totally good to go, it seems crazy to me that a coach would NOT play a guy in that situation.

I just don't know how this is on the coach, unless he saw something in Tua that made him think twice, and then he STILL put him in the game. But barring that, if the medical people give him a full thumbs up, seems like the coach did what the coach is hired to do.

I get that this may represent a flaw in the entire system, but I don't think the fault is with the HC.
 

CantKeepmedown

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Nobody is saying that coaches should be deciding who should be medically cleared to play.

Some are saying that coaches have the ability to sit a guy because they can. It happens in plenty of other sports. Guys get rest days because it's better long-term for the team, even if no doctor has ruled a guy out.

They could have said that his back was tight and they're not taking any chances, and Teddy is a great backup and blah blah. Coach is (was) 3-0 and a new hire. The sword of Damocles wasn't hanging over his chair right now.
Different "injury" and different position, but Mike Tomlin held Ryan Clark out of playoff game after he received medical clearance to play (Clark suffers from sickle-cell and wanted to play a game in Denver where the high altitude can make the symptoms worse). Doctors told Clark he would be fine. Tomlin wouldn't let him play. Tomlin basically said it was his job to protect players from themselves. He easily could have deferred to the medical staff but he didn't.
 

sonofgodcf

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The NFLPA demanded an investigation of Tua's Sunday injury on Sunday.

There is no plausible path to "how's the coach supposed to know?". Everyone knew. McDaniel is no worse than anyone else who had the ability to do something.
100% agree. He clearly knew, but gets to hide behind the processes set up by the NFL. I think it was a complete failure by McDaniel to let Tua play, I just don't think he should be the one to pay for it with his job (though I don't think it'd be unjust if he did get fired). I think it's an indictment against the league and their bullshit protocols and phony commitment to safety, and that much bigger fish should fry than the HC.
 

sodenj5

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I'd say that McDaniel's decision to let Tua play, both last Sunday and today, were obvious failures by the HC. Safety of your players should be the #1 priority, regardless of level play.

That said, I don't think he deserves to be fired, I think this just highlights the sham of the league's concussion protocols. They let some "independent" third party green light star players to play when it's obvious they shouldn't, and then the HC gets the fig leaf of saying they're just following medical advice. The league, team, med staff and HC all look awful for this, but it happened by design.
Again though, Mike McDaniel is not a doctor. If the staff and an independent neurologist agree that Tua does not need to be placed in the protocol, what is his recourse? As many have said in the thread, deferring to the actual experts and not just “going with your gut” is a good thing from McDaniel’s perspective.

Again, I agree 100% that somehow, someway, the measures in place were not sufficient enough to protect Tua, mostly from himself. That isn’t a Mike McDaniel failing. That’s a systemic failure at a much larger scale.
 

Shelterdog

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Based on what? I don’t want to single you out, but unless there is a trail of messages or texts or anything that proves that Mike McDaniel knew that Tua had a concussion on before last night’s game, how is he culpable as the fall guy for a failure in the league’s protocol?
So continuing an earlier thought, the questionable thing that McDaniel did was accept and promote the absolute bullshit story that Tua had back spasms--a story McDaniel didn't even necessarily believe!

"Tua, he went out with a lower back (injury)," Dolphins coach Mike McDaniel said at the time. "... He kind of got bent back pretty significantly on a quarterback sneak earlier, and so I was kind of with everyone else. When he hit his head on the ground, I assumed it was a head injury. But his legs got wobbly because his lower back was completely loose, and as he described it — he said his lower back was like Gumby or something."

I'm somewhat sympathetic to McDaniel--the team doctor and neurologist apparently accepted the lower back story (why is another question; and I wonder if they saw a video of the wobble before the team doctor decided any symptoms were not concussion related), so with that information it would generally reasonable for him to accept the doctor's statement.

But this is an unusual case where I don't think it makes a ton of sense to just accept the doctor's analysis. The Sunday injury had so many suggestions of a concussion, and lower back explanation for the wobble is so thin, that it really is hard to accept the doctors' evaluation here that he had no concussions and his inability to control gross motor functions 10 seconds after hitting his head was definitely not caused by a head injury and that Tua shouldn't at least be in some kind of concussion protocol because he might very well have suffered a concussion. Certainly I, like millions of other football fans, was saying Jesus, seems like he got a concussion Sunday, I can't believe he's not at least in the concussion protocol and methodically getting checked out, and this guy is playing again too soon. Not sure why McDaniel should be exempt from using common sense just because the doctor said essentially I accept Tua's story that it's not a concussion.

Also because Sunday's injury was deemed no concussion, Tua woulnd't have been in the concussion protocol. Not clear whether he had any follow up testing of any kind (I assume he did not or we would have heard of it by now but don't know that for a fact).
 

8slim

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This is a terrible situation, and I understand your perspective here. But the question is: If Tua looked JUST FINE in the days following last week's game, and if the team's (and league's ??) medical experts completely cleared him, why would the coach - who isn't remotely a medical expert at all - not play him? If medical experts say, look, he's actually fine, totally good to go, it seems crazy to me that a coach would NOT play a guy in that situation.

I just don't know how this is on the coach, unless he saw something in Tua that made him think twice, and then he STILL put him in the game. But barring that, if the medical people give him a full thumbs up, seems like the coach did what the coach is hired to do.

I get that this may represent a flaw in the entire system, but I don't think the fault is with the HC.
Agreed. On the postgame Fitz said he talked at length to Tua on Wednesday and he appeared to be fine. So what is a HC to do? His player was cleared, and the player showed no signs of concussion in the 4 days leading up to the game.

I’ll say yet again, there is not a HC in the history of the league that wouldn’t have started him last night given those circumstances.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Found this article from after the Pats game.

Then, just a few minutes later, tight end Cethan Carter suffered a head injury in kick coverage. The injury appeared to be pretty serious, as it took Carter some time to get to his feet before being carted back to the locker room.

On Monday, head coach Mike McDaniel provided updates on both players.

He stayed in uniform and could’ve gone back in, in an emergency situation,” McDaniel said of Jackson. “It’s serious enough that we’re getting some more eyes on it. We’ll be continuing along the process to have the best medical information on him moving forward. To be determined.”
Here's McDaniels saying a concussed player could have gone back into a game in an "emergency" situation. FYI, Carter didn't even travel with the team last night as he's still out with a concussion. As far as I know, there's no "emergency" situation allowance in the concussion protocol. Not a good look.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/28/cethan-carter-out-for-thursdays-game-against-bengals/
 
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BigSoxFan

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The biggest thing for me is that the Dolphins have a very good backup in Bridgewater. They weren’t choosing between Mac and Hoyer. I get the “he’s cleared, he plays” mentality of the NFL but if there was ever a time to sit your starting QB, it was last night coming off of a clear concussion and short week. Then, with 1.5 weeks in between last night and the next game, he’s probably back in there.

Any protocol that allows Tua to return to last Sunday’s game is completely useless.
 

jezza1918

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Found this article from after the Pats game.



Here's McDaniels saying a concussed player could have gone back into a game in an "emergency" situation. FYI, Carter didn't even travel with the team last night as he's still out with a concussion. As far as I know, there's no "emergency" situation allowance in the concussion protocol. Not a good look.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/28/cethan-carter-out-for-thursdays-game-against-bengals/
Wait this is a little confusing...the quote about the player going back into game seems to be about Jackson, not Carter?
 

sodenj5

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The biggest thing for me is that the Dolphins have a very good backup in Bridgewater. They weren’t choosing between Mac and Hoyer. I get the “he’s cleared, he plays” mentality of the NFL but if there was ever a time to sit your starting QB, it was last night coming off of a clear concussion and short week. Then, with 1.5 weeks in between last night and the next game, he’s probably back in there.

Any protocol that allows Tua to return to last Sunday’s game is completely useless.
If the league cared about safety at all, they wouldn’t have added a 17th game, there wouldn’t be Thursday night football games at all, there wouldn’t be turf fields, etc.
 

sonofgodcf

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Again though, Mike McDaniel is not a doctor. If the staff and an independent neurologist agree that Tua does not need to be placed in the protocol, what is his recourse? As many have said in the thread, deferring to the actual experts and not just “going with your gut” is a good thing from McDaniel’s perspective.

Again, I agree 100% that somehow, someway, the measures in place were not sufficient enough to protect Tua, mostly from himself. That isn’t a Mike McDaniel failing. That’s a systemic failure at a much larger scale.
I don't think there's a reasonable person who's been around football as much as an NFL HC that isn't going to recognize the obvious signs of a concussion/head injury like Tua suffered last week. Med staff can tell you he's fine, but how can he watch the tape and still believe that? He's happy to be lied to, not have to make the tough decision, and play his QB - that's how the system has been set up (and my main issue with this).

It's not a "gut feeling," he has enough knowledge and experience to recognize that Tua shouldn't have played last Sunday after the hit to the head. The HC (or it seems, any coach) has the ability to trigger the NFL's concussion protocols, so there is an expectation that these coaches have some knowledge about head/spine injuries and aren't completely powerless to the med staff on these decisions. Gross motor instability is a big call-out in the protocols, and he clearly hits his head on the ground before stumbling around with his "back injury".

He should have been pulled last Sunday - if not by the med staff, then by the coaches. But they needed the division win, and went penny-wise and pound-foolish with their decision to let him play. That failure now results in Tua suffering two brain injuries four days apart, and is an absolute failure by the coach staff/HC to protect their player.

Again, I don't think he should be fired, but he's not blameless.
 

wilked

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When I saw he was playing last night (after reading the league was investigating), the cynical side of me thought -

If they kept him out, they are tacitly admitting to getting the in game diagnosis wrong, and inviting action by the league. They are likely further incentivized to play him if their goal is to defend the original decision / investigation by the league.
 

BigJimEd

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Jan 4, 2002
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Found this article from after the Pats game.
Then, just a few minutes later, tight end Cethan Carter suffered a head injury in kick coverage. The injury appeared to be pretty serious, as it took Carter some time to get to his feet before being carted back to the locker room.

On Monday, head coach Mike McDaniel provided updates on both players.

He stayed in uniform and could’ve gone back in, in an emergency situation,McDaniel said of Jackson. “It’s serious enough that we’re getting some more eyes on it. We’ll be continuing along the process to have the best medical information on him moving forward. To be determined.”

Here's McDaniels saying a concussed player could have gone back into a game in an "emergency" situation. FYI, Carter didn't even travel with the team last night as he's still out with a concussion. As far as I know, there's no "emergency" situation allowance in the concussion protocol. Not a good look.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/28/cethan-carter-out-for-thursdays-game-against-bengals/
That quote seems to be referencing different player who injured his ankle.

100% agree. He clearly knew, but gets to hide behind the processes set up by the NFL. I think it was a complete failure by McDaniel to let Tua play, I just don't think he should be the one to pay for it with his job (though I don't think it'd be unjust if he did get fired). I think it's an indictment against the league and their bullshit protocols and phony commitment to safety, and that much bigger fish should fry than the HC.
This is how I feel. There is plenty of culpability to go around. This isn't the first time the protocol "failed." As with almost everything with regards to the NFL, it's all about the PR. I think it's obvious the protocol is designed to get the player back on the field if at all possible. If the NFL cared about player safety at all, it would be the opposite with the default that the player sits the rest of the game at minimum.


But, let's also remember that clearing a player does NOT equate to the player being totally fine as some here have suggested.
 

sodenj5

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Jul 14, 2005
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When I saw he was playing last night (after reading the league was investigating), the cynical side of me thought -

If they kept him out, they are tacitly admitting to getting the in game diagnosis wrong, and inviting action by the league. They are likely further incentivized to play him if their goal is to defend the original decision / investigation by the league.
They could have also easily said that his back and ankle injuries were going to limit him on a short week, and no one would have batted an eye.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
43,146
When I saw he was playing last night (after reading the league was investigating), the cynical side of me thought -

If they kept him out, they are tacitly admitting to getting the in game diagnosis wrong, and inviting action by the league. They are likely further incentivized to play him if their goal is to defend the original decision / investigation by the league.
Yup. It’s basically like the political landscape. Can’t admit an error so let’s just double down on an obvious lie and dig a deeper hole. I absolutely despise grandstanding congressional hearings but I would love to see one in this case and have Goodell/owners skewered in a public forum on this issue.
 

SoxInTheMist

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Jul 18, 2005
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Woodinville, WA
The coverup is always worse than the crime. This wouldn't have stunk to high heaven last week if they hadn't thrown out the inane claim of it not being a concussion and being a back injury instead. Anyone with a functioning brain knew that was pure bullshit. The only thing I fault McDaniel for (unless he actually knows more that hasn't come out) is parroting the back injury explanation. Don't piss on me and call it rain. The injuries protocols are specifically set up so that the coaches cannot be held responsible if they just listen to the doctors.

As soon as the hit happened last night and it was clear it was a head injury all I could think of was the massive lawsuit(s) that are about to hit the NFL. Someone(s) screwed the pooch here. They cheated the system, rolled the dice, and rolled snake eyes. Or whatever dice result is bad...
 

Shelterdog

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Feb 19, 2002
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Yup. It’s basically like the political landscape. Can’t admit an error so let’s just double down on an obvious lie and dig a deeper hole. I absolutely despise grandstanding congressional hearings but I would love to see one in this case and have Goodell/owners skewered in a public forum on this issue.
I'm asking this question seriously--do we know if the doctors saw the video of Tua tripping? I know they have tablets and what not but I could imagine a world where the spotter or someone says Tua tripped after hitting his head, they examine him, they ask him about tripping, he says its his back (and if the doctors hadn't seen the video that could be plausible) and they gave him him the no concussion diagnosis. And if you did clear him without seeing the video it becomes really hard to change your diagnosis or put him in the protocol or whatever and concede a mistake.
 

SoxInTheMist

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Jul 18, 2005
210
Woodinville, WA
I'm asking this question seriously--do we know if the doctors saw the video of Tua tripping? I know they have tablets and what not but I could imagine a world where the spotter or someone says Tua tripped after hitting his head, they examine him, they ask him about tripping, he says its his back (and if the doctors hadn't seen the video that could be plausible) and they gave him him the no concussion diagnosis. And if you did clear him without seeing the video it becomes really hard to change your diagnosis or put him in the protocol or whatever and concede a mistake.
If the doctors didn't see the "falling down" part of the video then that would be the first failure of the string of failures here. That's the whole point of the independent spotter.