2022 Hall of Fame Class

DeadlySplitter

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Oct 20, 2015
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A-Rod at 34% seems like a good start, and Rolen should get in within a couple years as the ballot gets less bloated
 

cromulence

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Aug 25, 2009
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Congrats Sox fans, but what a joke. If you truly think Ortiz never did any PEDs, I think you're kidding yourself, but fine. He should be in regardless. Some of the greatest players ever and the absolute best of their generation were shut out of what's supposed to be the very place that celebrates them. Put them in their own wing, put something on their plaques, whatever. Instead, the Hall of Fame ceases to be relevant moving forward.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Congrats Sox fans, but what a joke. If you truly think Ortiz never did any PEDs, I think you're kidding yourself, but fine. He should be in regardless. Some of the greatest players ever and the absolute best of their generation were shut out of what's supposed to be the very place that celebrates them. Put them in their own wing, put something on their plaques, whatever. Instead, the Hall of Fame ceases to be relevant moving forward.
What drug did Ortiz take? Just curious…
 

cromulence

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What drug did Ortiz take? Just curious…
I never said I knew what drug he took. I just think it's hard to believe that man never tried a PED. I know many of you will disagree. Again - I think he should be in. But so should Bonds, Clemens, and A-Rod.
 

8slim

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I never said I knew what drug he took. I just think it's hard to believe that man never tried a PED. I know many of you will disagree. Again - I think he should be in. But so should Bonds, Clemens, and A-Rod.
He was formally tested under MLB policy for nearly the entirety of his Sox career and never failed a single one. So if you want to believe he did something that never showed up in a test for 12 years, while dozens of others were pinched, have at it.
 

deanx0

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I am so happy for Ortiz, but it is 100% bullshit that a baseball Hall of Fame exists without Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens. Every writer that chose not to vote for them should be stripped of their voting privileges forever.
 

McBride11

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He was formally tested under MLB policy for nearly the entirety of his Sox career and never failed a single one. So if you want to believe he did something that never showed up in a test for 12 years, while dozens of others were pinched, have at it.
And looking at the SoSH HoF thread - many seem to agree that Bonds, Clemens, and Arod should be in.

Too bad SoSH doesnt have a vote and we have clowns dropping ballots that are
blank instead.
 

8slim

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And looking at the SoSH HoF thread - many seem to agree that Bonds, Clemens, and Arod should be in.

Too bad SoSH doesnt have a vote and we have clowns dropping ballots that are
blank instead.
I’d put those guys in as well. The PED stuff just never bothered me the way it does others.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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With Bonds and Clemens off the ballot and Beltre the only clear 1st ballot candidate the next two years, a lot more focus will be on Rolen, Helton, Wagner. Rolen seems like he will benefit the most.
 

8slim

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Agree. Those 3 had HoF stuff before PEDs
I don’t even parse it that way. Bonds and Clemens played when there was no testing. If MLB didn’t think it was important enough to forbid, then I don’t care to put a post-career sanction on them. A-Rod failed the test and paid the price. The numbers he put up still happened and they’re HoF caliber.

I know others disagree with my take and I respect that.
 

McBride11

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I don’t even parse it that way. Bonds and Clemens played when there was no testing. If MLB didn’t think it was important enough to forbid, then I don’t care to put a post-career sanction on them. A-Rod failed the test and paid the price. The numbers he put up still happened and they’re HoF caliber.

I know others disagree with my take and I respect that.
Holier than thou writers. Bonds was appointment viewing in the 00s. His hand / eye coordination and zone recognition remains otherwordly.
Clemens was striking out 20 in the 80s
And arod was some hs phenom
 

mwonow

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Sep 4, 2005
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David F'ing Ortiz - HoFer!

Getting dusty here. Great man, great day to celebrate Papi.
 

Yaz4Ever

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My dad passed away two months ago. This is the first sports-related announcement that hurts being unable to share. My dad would have loved this news.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Aug 12, 2009
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A-Rod at 34% seems like a good start, and Rolen should get in within a couple years as the ballot gets less bloated
A-Rod will be an interesting case to follow, his 34% this year is actually less than Bonds (36.2%) and Clemens (37.6%) got in their first year of eligibility. Maybe the ensuing nine years will see a change in opinion by the writers on issues of steroids, but A-Rod’s suspension for the Biogenesis scandal, in addition to the rest of his admitted history of PED use, may be enough to keep enough voters from voting for him.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Dec 19, 2009
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Everyone keeps saying "They were HOF before..."

Yes, that's the point. They were BEFORE. Then they did what they did, which made them not.

It's really not a hard equation. If they wanted to remain Hall-of-Fame players, the only thing - LITERALLY THE ONLY THING - they had to do was not dope.

That's it.

They failed.

They're out.
 

PseuFighter

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Dec 22, 2003
14,408
Does anyone know for sure how voting works when it goes to the Todays Game committee? It looks like 16 members meet next winter, and you need 12/16 to get in, but I can’t find anything about how many votes each member gets, and conflicting info on when a player becomes eligible for the committee (e.g. are Bonds/Clemens/Schilling immediately eligible or is there a waiting period?). Thanks.
 

cromulence

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Aug 25, 2009
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I feel the same way about Jeter
Cool.

Disappointing but not surprising to see a total lack of real discussion about this here. I get it on the main board, but I thought this thread might be more interested in discussing what just happened today. Too bad.

But LOL, don't forget that two innocent people died at Mariano Rivera's house, one of whom was 14 years old! That's fucking funny, right?!?!
 
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snowmanny

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Dec 8, 2005
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The Yankee who I am most sure used PEDs, and is using PEDS, is Stanton. No regular human could have launched that mammoth single in the WC game.
 

MuzzyField

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Everyone keeps saying "They were HOF before..."

Yes, that's the point. They were BEFORE. Then they did what they did, which made them not.

It's really not a hard equation. If they wanted to remain Hall-of-Fame players, the only thing - LITERALLY THE ONLY THING - they had to do was not dope.

That's it.

They failed.

They're out.
No need for before, they are HOF'ers PERIOD.

They ALL played in the juice era, and way too many did explode better bodies through chemistry. It was more than endorsed by ownership and ownership's self-appointed steward/commissioner to protect the integrity of the game.

The revenue and fan interest was generated on chemistry, that's reality and it wasn't just a few HOF candidates doing it. This ongoing holier than thou crap regarding the HOF is beyond hypocritical.

Congrats to Papi, it's well deserved and I'm happy he's in, but he's not entering a venue that is currently honoring the greatest to ever play the game.
 

ngruz25

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Sep 20, 2005
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I don’t even parse it that way. Bonds and Clemens played when there was no testing. If MLB didn’t think it was important enough to forbid, then I don’t care to put a post-career sanction on them. A-Rod failed the test and paid the price. The numbers he put up still happened and they’re HoF caliber.

I know others disagree with my take and I respect that.
Fun fact, A-Rod never failed a test, unless you count the same 2003 test that Ortiz failed.
 

snowmanny

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Cool.

Disappointing but not surprising to see a total lack of real discussion about this here. I get it on the main board, but I thought this thread might be more interested in discussing what just happened today. Too bad.
I’m pretty sure there is in face a lot of discussion about Bonds and Clemens in this thread, and everybody was pretty sure they wouldn’t make it, and most of us thought they should get in. Your argument, that you know Ortiz used despite the lack of serious evidence that he used and despite The Commisioner saying he should be presumed innocent, and equating him with ARod based on your hunch, is not particularly worth discussing today. It’s been discussed all through this thread. And, yeah, it is just as fair to presume that any player who has never tested positive - even St Jeter - used as it is to presume Ortiz used. Steroids help with anything you might do on a baseball field, not just slugging, except going to your left.
 

Gdiguy

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Jul 15, 2005
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Cool.

Disappointing but not surprising to see a total lack of real discussion about this here. I get it on the main board, but I thought this thread might be more interested in discussing what just happened today. Too bad.

But LOL, don't forget that two innocent people died at Mariano Rivera's house, one of whom was 14 years old! That's fucking funny, right?!?!
What is there to discuss? It’s not like there’s new ways to analyze the data, Bonds especially is either the 1st or 2nd best position player or all time, it’s purely a personal belief of whether you think steroid people should be in the hall or not… and at some point it’s just tiring and not useful or interesting to discuss


Everyone keeps saying "They were HOF before..."

Yes, that's the point. They were BEFORE. Then they did what they did, which made them not.

It's really not a hard equation. If they wanted to remain Hall-of-Fame players, the only thing - LITERALLY THE ONLY THING - they had to do was not dope.

That's it.

They failed.

They're out.
And moreover I think that’s really ultimately the point - there’s basically two camps, one that thinks being voted into the HoF is an ‘honor’ , and the other that it’s a museum encompassing the best players of each era. And there’s nothing really wrong with either view, and so if the HoF wants to do the former, then that’s their choice.

but for me, I started following baseball in about 1989 and really watching in the early 90s - the entire era of baseball I grew up with is defined by Bonds. So if you’re asking me whether I’m going to bother driving to the middle of nowhere upstate NY when the HoF’s feeling about that era is that it doesn’t count, especially when there’s a great baseball museum in Kansas City that is both a lot more important to teach my kids about and also a lot closer to phenomenal bbq… the choice is pretty obvious
 

cromulence

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I absolutely never said I knew that Ortiz took PEDs. I just think if you weren't a Red Sox fan, you'd see this with a more rational point of view, and logic would tell you that it's very likely that at some point, David Ortiz tried some kind of PED. And guess what? He's still great! All the shit he did? It still happened! You don't have to be defensive!

I'm pissed off. I want to love the Hall of Fame, but I feel like it's become totally irrelevant. They just cannot pretend Barry Bonds didn't happen. If they want to, I'm not interested in ever going back there. And I want to be very clear here - I despised Barry Bonds. I hated it when he broke Hank Aaron's record. I rooted against him at every turn. But I also can recognize that he was fucking incredible at baseball, and no amount of steroids created that. He belongs in the Hall of Fame. This sucks.
 

Gdiguy

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I absolutely never said I knew that Ortiz took PEDs. I just think if you weren't a Red Sox fan, you'd see this with a more rational point of view, and logic would tell you that it's very likely that at some point, David Ortiz tried some kind of PED. And guess what? He's still great! All the shit he did? It still happened! You don't have to be defensive!

I'm pissed off. I want to love the Hall of Fame, but I feel like it's become totally irrelevant. They just cannot pretend Barry Bonds didn't happen. If they want to, I'm not interested in ever going back there. And I want to be very clear here - I despised Barry Bonds. I hated it when he broke Hank Aaron's record. I rooted against him at every turn. But I also can recognize that he was fucking incredible at baseball, and no amount of steroids created that. He belongs in the Hall of Fame. This sucks.
I agree with you, except that for me it’s just more disinterest than anger - with everything else that’s happened over the last like 4 years, I just can’t get up that much emotion about the baseball HoF

If anything, the thing that comes closest to pissing me off is the complete hypocrisy of voting Selig in - which just re-emphasizes that I think I’m just done with the type of old boys club that defines baseball (and especially the HoF)
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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Did Clemens fail a test? It's tough for these guys that know what they're doing to fail tests. A lot of people are out to lunch on this topic. Most pros (if not all) are using something.
 

MuzzyField

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I hadn't previously looked into this and I'm sure most of you already knew, but the Veterans Committee has elected more enshrines to the HOF than the idiot writers, unfortunately among those 170+ VC'ers is almost winner/racist Tom Yawkey and steroid use booster Bud Selig.

The BBWAA has voted in 130+.
 

ngruz25

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Sep 20, 2005
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Shoot, was he suspended because of the Balco stuff? I admit I’ve forgotten the particulars of that.
Biogenesis, which was later in 2013-2014ish. The kind of unspoken thing about the Biogenesis scandal is that it exposed that widespread cheating was going undetected by MLB. A whole bunch of dudes were caught and suspended only because a disgruntled employee came forward with company documentation. I think a couple of the suspendees had been popped for cheating before (Braun a couple years earlier, for one), but the suspensions didn't come because of a failed MLB test.

Kind of makes you wonder what other Biogenesis-type companies were operating at the same time.

I hope nobody takes my post as implying that Big Papi was swallowing horse tranquilizers or something. I'm firmly in the "innocent until proven guilty" camp, and I love the dude and will ignore all arguments to the contrary.