2023 Cowboys: Kellen Moore out as OC, McCarthy stuck in 1996

Cellar-Door

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I'm not sure why everyone assumes Bill will want full personnel control wherever he goes next. All indications from various rumors are that he won't demand that, as long as the structure is one he is comfortable with. Which would make sense, full control is needed for longterm plans, but Bill is 72... he's probably looking shorter term, current roster and ability to work with a GM is probably more important to him.
 

TFisNEXT

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McClay has done a really good job with personnel which is the primary reason I find it hard to imagine BB going there.
Yeah I think it would need to be a coach who is fine having input but not veto-power.

One of the few things I do give Jerry credit for is basically ceding control of player personnel to McClay circa 2013-2014....and McClay to his credit is fine with not getting a bunch of accolades that comes with the GM title. He's fine having Jerry keep the title, but McClay gets paid like a GM and Jerry gives him basically a slush fund for scouting staff. So even without the official GM title, McClay gets paid big and has a big budget to spend which is appealing in its own right versus going to another franchise that may penny-pinch a bit more on the scouting staff.

But every couple years, Cowboys fans freak out at rumors he might be leaving....and rightfully so. He's done an incredible job at turning one of the worst drafting franchises circa 1995-2010 into one of the best.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I'm not sure why everyone assumes Bill will want full personnel control wherever he goes next. All indications from various rumors are that he won't demand that, as long as the structure is one he is comfortable with. Which would make sense, full control is needed for longterm plans, but Bill is 72... he's probably looking shorter term, current roster and ability to work with a GM is probably more important to him.
To your point, he reportedly told Gary Myers a few years ago that he wouldn’t want a job at this stage where he had to rebuild the entire personnel operation. That would take several years to properly execute, as well as an incredible amount of time over the offseason.

That’s what some folks may be missing, that asking for final personnel authority also brings with it the responsibility to create/shape the personnel staff, processes and philosophy in a manner consistent with your vision. It’s more involved than reserving a veto right over player selection.
 

nattysez

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I interpret this as Belichick not being interested but who knows. Clearly not the most exciting news if you’re a Cowboys fan.
Vrabel? Harbaugh? Elevate Quinn? Talk to Pete Carroll about some short-term jacking and pumping? There are an awful lot of potentially superior options to MM available other than BB.

I see some writers saying that the Cowboys were never firing a guy who won so many regular-season games for them. I'm not sure winning a bunch of regular-season games means all that much given their bellyflops v SF and GB. But maybe it's a tougher call than I thought.
 
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Cellar-Door

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Vrabel? Harbaugh? Elevate Quinn? Talk to Pete Carroll about some short-term jacking and pumping? There are an awful lot of potentially superior options to MM available other than BB.
I don't think any of those except maybe Harbaugh are upgrades. Quinn's defense is the one that shit the bed and his head coaching record is nowhere near MM's, Vrabel? has a fraction of the success of MM and doesn't even have an elite side of the ball to lean on, his defenses were always good rather than elite.

Yes MM has not had playoff success, on the other hand most of the other options either have far less overall success (including playoffs) or are 70+ years old.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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Maybe Jerry is worried McCarthy would end up in the division with Washington?

Either way, McCarthy is going to be a lame duck coach with one year left on his deal and fans calling for his firing after every loss. Should be fun.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I also don't think this was on McCarthy. Dak was gross and the defense decided to pivot from its strength in the first playoff game of the season. McCarthy didn't really shit his pants here.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I think this was the right move. Playoff games are susceptible to small sample weirdness. As fans we like to assume we can spot chokers, but it just doesn’t work like that. Dak was bad. The defense sucked.
 

TFisNEXT

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I don't think any of those except maybe Harbaugh are upgrades. Quinn's defense is the one that shit the bed and his head coaching record is nowhere near MM's, Vrabel? has a fraction of the success of MM and doesn't even have an elite side of the ball to lean on, his defenses were always good rather than elite.

Yes MM has not had playoff success, on the other hand most of the other options either have far less overall success (including playoffs) or are 70+ years old.
I thought there was a good chance MM would be gone after an unforgiving performance in the first round at home but him staying was always a possibility. For those not completely familiar with the Cowboys, he basically pushed all his chips into the table after last season when he forced out Kellen Moore, took the offense and playcalling into his own hands and even tinkered with Dak’s pre-snap game. Many were skeptical of this including myself…but what actually happened is he elevated the offense and Dak went from a very good QB to a potential MVP contender. This obviously saved him as Jerry weighted this more than the playoff game for at least one more season. MM must have convinced him he can fix the playoff woes

It wouldn’t surprise me though if they made some big defensive changes. Everyone focuses on the Dak narrative, but the dirty secret is that the defense might have been even more responsible for some of those no-show losses in addition to the playoffs (SF and BUF). They just never got any stops in those games to even give a fleeting chance for the offense to overcome a slow start. You blinked and it was 21-0 and now you can’t even run a normal offense anyway. The bloom has really come off the Dan Quinn rose during the 2023 season. Dallas at one point was considered a top 5 defense but they really unraveled…particularly late in the season and the unit as a whole regressed from 2022. You can blame the Trevon Diggs injury and there’s no denying he was a monster loss, but they happened to get an All-pro year out of Duran Bland and they had traded for Gilmore before the season so there wasn’t a ton of excuse to not at least match year’s D. But the safeties regressed, the linebackers struggled against the run at times and the D-line was soft up the middle at times…and usually against playoff teams these weaknesses were exposed the most. Quinn didn’t seem to be able to answer for anything these offenses threw at them which shouldn’t have been the case when you had as many good players back there as he had.
 

Greg29fan

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Not sure what kind of defensive staff you're going to attract knowing the head coach is on the last year of his contract.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I’m surprised. I think BB would help them overcome the playoff jitters and would increase the likelihood of them eventually defeating SF in the playoffs. I don’t see a MM led team doing either. We’ll likely never know if BB was interested, but I’m choosing to believe Jerry just can’t stand the idea of any potential success not being clearly due to him.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think this was the right move. Playoff games are susceptible to small sample weirdness. As fans we like to assume we can spot chokers, but it just doesn’t work like that. Dak was bad. The defense sucked.
Shouldn’t the head coach own some of his star QB sucking and his defense using a terrible game plan though? The entire team was simply not prepared at all.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I’m surprised. I think BB would help them overcome the playoff jitters and would increase the likelihood of them eventually defeating SF in the playoffs. I don’t see a MM led team doing either. We’ll likely never know if BB was interested, but I’m choosing to believe Jerry just can’t stand the idea of any potential success not being clearly due to him.
I was clearly rooting for a BB-to-Dallas outcome just for the entertainment value - but I am a bit surprised as well. Less so because BB won't be going there and more because McCarthy is being given another shot. It may be a good decision but I would have thought that Jerry would be getting impatient.
 

jcd0805

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Shouldn’t the head coach own some of his star QB sucking and his defense using a terrible game plan though? The entire team was simply not prepared at all.
Exactly. They’re the Dallas Freaking Cowboys, it’s pathetic. McCarthy had Aaron Rogers for how many years and only eked out one Super Bowl. He’s never gotten this team to the flippin’ conference championship. I’m sure their fans are thrilled to look forward to another season beating up bad teams then disappearing in the playoffs, what a joke of a franchise.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Ultimately, Jerry prefers a guy like Garrett or McCarthy, as he can hold court with the media, roam the locker room freely, and neither he nor Stephen are really gonna be pushed or overshadowed.
 

BigSoxFan

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Exactly. They’re the Dallas Freaking Cowboys, it’s pathetic. McCarthy had Aaron Rogers for how many years and only eked out one Super Bowl. He’s never gotten this team to the flippin’ conference championship. I’m sure their fans are thrilled to look forward to another season beating up bad teams then disappearing in the playoffs, what a joke of a franchise.
I spent 15 years in Texas and have countless Cowboys fan friends and they’re all pretty much done with McCarthy at this point. Many of them weren’t done with him this time last year. This ugly loss was apparently the straw that broke the camel’s back. Could get ugly this fall if they get off to a bad start.
 

Van Everyman

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Shouldn’t the head coach own some of his star QB sucking and his defense using a terrible game plan though? The entire team was simply not prepared at all.
Also, do we have any idea what was going on between Ceedee and Dak? They looked like they were having a marital dispute at the worst possible time.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Shouldn’t the head coach own some of his star QB sucking and his defense using a terrible game plan though? The entire team was simply not prepared at all.
McCarthy deserves blame. Of course he does. That doesn’t mean firing him is in the best interests of the club. This does not strike me as an irrational decision.
 

BigSoxFan

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McCarthy deserves blame. Of course he does. That doesn’t mean firing him is in the best interests of the club. This does not strike me as an irrational decision.
It’s not irrational but I’m getting some pretty serious Buccaneers/Dungy vibes from him. Sometimes a team that is good enough to win it all just needs a different voice to get over the hump. You don’t can him for some random coordinator but if BB were actually interested (we don’t know one way or another right now), that’s an easy decision for me, if I’m Jones.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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It’s not irrational but I’m getting some pretty serious Buccaneers/Dungy vibes from him. Sometimes a team that is good enough to win it all just needs a different voice to get over the hump. You don’t can him for some random coordinator but if BB were actually interested (we don’t know one way or another right now), that’s an easy decision for me, if I’m Jones.
Yeah, I can see that. If they let him go on a need a new voice theory, that would have been justifiable. But on the other hand, to fire a 42-25 coach who just had a good regular year, because he is 1-3 in the playoffs, means you think there is something tangible that allows you to say the playoffs is more than just the small sample size weirdness that happens when you run into hot teams. Maybe so.

The Occam’s razor approach, though, is that coaches who consistently put up double digit wins are going to win some playoff games if given enough chances. Maybe 4 years is enough to decide it’s not going to get better, but Jones rolling it back out one more time doesn’t surprise me.
 

Greg29fan

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I don't know where all the Belichick to Dallas stuff started at but it was a complete never-gonna-happen for me. Since Jerrah and Jimmy parted ways, Jerrah's hired seven coaches - six of them were Jerrah yes-men (Switzer, Gailey, Campo, Phillips, Garrett and McCarthy) - with Parcells the only outlier.

Parcells did the Lord's work getting that Quincy Carter 2003 team to 10-6 and the playoffs but didn't win a game, then had a transition year, then went 9-7 twice w/the only playoff appearance the infamous Romo fumbled snap game, so with that level of "just okay," I think the die was cast for Jerrah sticking with "his guys" as coach. Jerrah also likes coaches who have success but also let him play Dr. Jerrah team medical spokesman and go on his radio show etc. and Belichick was never going to stand for that (neither were Harbaugh or Vrabel or any of the other "name" guys).

McCarthy wins a lot in the regular season (which does have value) and Jerrah doesn't care about winning another Super Bowl (he has three), despite what people tell you. He cares about the Cowboys brand and being #1 on the Forbes list and from that standpoint, things have never been better.

I will go on the record (I sort of did earlier in this thread) and say that the next Cowboys coach after McCarthy is Deion Sanders. He's a bigger name than the Jerrah yes-men hires were but will be beholden to him for giving him a chance at the NFL level and they have a great relationship.
 
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TFisNEXT

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McCarthy deserves blame. Of course he does. That doesn’t mean firing him is in the best interests of the club. This does not strike me as an irrational decision.
Yeah I wanted a discipline guy to come in and take these guys to the next level. I don’t think Jerry was going to hire an unproven coordinator to learn on the job when he has a roster that can contend right now.

My guess is what ultimately saved McCarthy’s job (I mentioned this above in a previous post) was his work elevating Dak and the offense up another tier. McCarthy forcing out Kellen Moore (who Jerry liked) and taking over the offense plus tinkering with Dak was supposed to be the final straw (I even joked about it in the thread title when McCarthy said he wanted to run the ball)…the Cowboys were going to regress offensively and he’d be out.

But that didn’t happen. Instead, they got better offensively and Dak flirted with an MVP-esque season. I think rather than make a massive change there, he wants to see if MM can get additional improvements considering how this first year went in the new arrangement. Apparently MM convinced him he can and overcome the playoff woes.

To be perfectly honest though, I’m actually more worried about the defensive meltdowns than anything offensively. Yeah, Dak had a bad game against GB, but the defense was significantly worse. They have had too many of those types of performances. It’s a little hard to judge the offense when you blink and are down 21-0 or 21-3 in some of these games and now you have to force things.

What happens with DQ is going to be interesting. Apparently he’s already been offered to stay if he doesn’t get a HC job. But I’d really love them to turn over the DC job to Al Harris if Quinn gets hired elsewhere. Al Harris seemed to “get it” when it comes to that defensive unit. He was the one pushing for more man coverage and Dallas was quite effective in man most of the year with Bland and Gilmore on the corners. They get Trevon Diggs back next season. But DQ decided to run a lot of zone in the playoff game and he even did it a decent amount against SF in that blowout loss. Just bizarre stuff.
 

Oil Can Dan

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What the hell is Jerruh saying here? Seems like he's slamming Dak for the playoff loss, which is bizarre considering the defense gave up TDs on 6 out of 7 drives to start the game. Are they really not going to extend Dak this offseason?

 

Van Everyman

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What the hell is Jerruh saying here? Seems like he's slamming Dak for the playoff loss, which is bizarre considering the defense gave up TDs on 6 out of 7 drives to start the game. Are they really not going to extend Dak this offseason?

It's probably not worth reading too much in to his ramblings insofar as it impacts Dak’s extension. He said Dak is the lynchpin but that the team collectively “laid an egg.” Sounds like he’s laying some blame but not all mixed in with typical Jerry reporters-come-hang-on-my-every-word press conference word salad.
 

Greg29fan

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Dan Quinn did a great job turning around the "culture" of the defense with the Cowboys but I think everybody was ready to move on. Hopefully they get someone who understands linebackers aren't supposed to be 215 pound converted safeties.
 

Cellar-Door

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What the hell is Jerruh saying here? Seems like he's slamming Dak for the playoff loss, which is bizarre considering the defense gave up TDs on 6 out of 7 drives to start the game. Are they really not going to extend Dak this offseason?

To be fair, Dak did throw picks on 2 of the first 4 drives, including a pick 6. He was awful.
 

joe dokes

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What the hell is Jerruh saying here? Seems like he's slamming Dak for the playoff loss, which is bizarre considering the defense gave up TDs on 6 out of 7 drives to start the game. Are they really not going to extend Dak this offseason?

That really makes no sense. "We will go as far as Dak takes us. And that’s how far we went," sounds like my father-in-law's description of my golf game: "one thing's for sure....the ball always goes right where you hit it."

Jerry looks older than Willie Nelson. And his comments reinforce my belief that the Cowboys won't be winning another SB while he's in charge. Kraft is a lot of things, but Jerry says more about the nuts and bolts of the on-field product in a week than RK does in a year. Kraft's way is as it should be, IMO.
 

BigSoxFan

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That really makes no sense. "We will go as far as Dak takes us. And that’s how far we went," sounds like my father-in-law's description of my golf game: "one thing's for sure....the ball always goes right where you hit it."

Jerry looks older than Willie Nelson. And his comments reinforce my belief that the Cowboys won't be winning another SB while he's in charge. Kraft is a lot of things, but Jerry says more about the nuts and bolts of the on-field product in a week than RK does in a year. Kraft's way is as it should be, IMO.
I thought it was pretty clear. To me, he was saying that they will go as far as Dak will take them and he clearly sucked so they were one and done “and that’s how far we went”. He wanted to answer the question without saying publicly that his franchise QB sucked ass.

Jerry loves the limelight so he’s going to keep getting these kinds of questions. I think you make a very valid point about the Kraft model being better for a franchise.