2023 NBA Playoffs

Deathofthebambino

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I give a ton of credit to the Sixers for responding defensively on that final possession without the benefit of a designed chalkboard scheme. We saw tonight how effective that can be when given the opportunity to prepare for one set.

I will say that the two circumstances were different so I don't mind Kerr's TO as much as I would have Joe's.....

1. There was a dead ball for the free throws so the defense was already getting time to regroup.
2. The Lakers weren't going to be making a defensive substitution as Russell was already out of the game.
3. Unlike the Celtics who only needed a basket of any kind to win, the Warriors were down 3 and needed to go fast to get a quick 2 without time coming off the clock to give them the best chance to win the game. The idea here is to get quick & easy layup with the defense overextending while leaving :07-:08 on the clock, be able to foul, hopefully get one miss, then a 3 gives you a chance to win the game.

There was so much more for the Warriors to arrange opposed to the Celtics who simply needed a basket and be able to keep Maxey on the floor but we saw what can happen when a defense has the means to prepare.
I agree with this for the most part.

But.....

If you're just going to walk the ball up, allowing the defense to get set, and then simply run your standard 2 man game with Tatum/Smart that everyone on Earth knows is coming, aren't you already simply giving the Sixers the same "designed chalkboard scheme" they probably planned for and used on just about every possession anyway?

I mean, besides maybe removing Maxey, what else did the C's force the Sixers into that would have been any different if they had called a timeout? Instead of walking it up court, they throw it in behind halfcourt, and then walk it up the court? And in either case, with a timeout or without, they end up in the same 2 man game with Tatum/Smart.
 

PedroKsBambino

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If Joe's theory were about keeping Maxey/Harden out there ok...but then you want to really target those guys or at least get them into rotation. Like DOTB says, if you're going to run kind of a generic set, I don't like the no-TO decision.

Also, I would take Smart out and thus, a TO to move ball to mid-court, set a play, and go White/Brogdon instead of Smart is well worth the TO even if Sixers get to upgrade personnel there.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I agree with this for the most part.

But.....

If you're just going to walk the ball up, allowing the defense to get set, and then simply run your standard 2 man game with Tatum/Smart that everyone on Earth knows is coming, aren't you already simply giving the Sixers the same "designed chalkboard scheme" they probably planned for and used on just about every possession anyway?

I mean, besides maybe removing Maxey, what else did the C's force the Sixers into that would have been any different if they had called a timeout? Instead of walking it up court, they throw it in behind halfcourt, and then walk it up the court? And in either case, with a timeout or without, they end up in the same 2 man game with Tatum/Smart.
I see the case for timeouts in certain instances for sure. Kerr's was possibly (probably?) one of them and there are others. Every situation is different as each have their own nuances. I don't even think that Joe calling one is terrible I just don't like it with the variables in play on this possession. No single one on its own pushes the envelope for me however cumulatively it does. I've probably got it 75/25, I see the other side I just don't agree that's the best option in this particular spot.

Keeping Maxey in the game is one. Another is the Sixers being out of timeouts so not only aren't they able to scheme to best of their ability....but also unable to have a plan offensively if the Celtics score without the ability for a side out in the frontcourt. Could the Sixers coaches have prepared us to use our corner shooters as decoys which wouldn't have left Smart wide open for the game winner? Maybe, we don't know. Lost in all this is that if Tatum began like a quarter of a second sooner we are talking about how not calling the timeout left the Sixers rotations underprepared in leaving a shooter wide open for the game winner. It's the process vs the result and all too often the result sways options way too far in one direction.
 

benhogan

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Jordan Poole (GSW): 0 pts (0/2 2p, 0/2 3p), 3 reb, 2 ast, 2 tov in 10 min

a complete no-show

maybe I'm biased (never been a fan), but he seems to come up small in big spots
 

BaseballJones

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Jordan Poole (GSW): 0 pts (0/2 2p, 0/2 3p), 3 reb, 2 ast, 2 tov in 10 min

a complete no-show

maybe I'm biased (never been a fan), but he seems to come up small in big spots
He hit two half court shots against the Celtics last year as time expired at the end of quarters. :mad:
 

Tony C

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2. The Lakers weren't going to be making a defensive substitution as Russell was already out of the game.
I was surprised Ham didn't put in Vanderbilt for either Schroder or Walker, actually.

Per Curry, while that is not a stat I'd have on my bingo card, those are always really tough shots, so not surprised if it has been a low % rate. Wasn't the supposed all-time Killer Kobe around 20% in those end of game shots or something? Seem to recall reading that back in the day.

edit:
And a quick google shows:
Game Winning Shots
[TH]Player[/TH] [TH]Fgm[/TH] [TH]Fg%[/TH]
LeBron James 17 .340
Vince Carter 16 .314
Ray Allen 15 .385
Kobe Bryant 14 .250


edit #2: looking at the google site more closely, those are just #s for 2003-2009....but point sort of holds for Kobe, though he is #2 overall to MJ in buzzer beaters.
 
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jon abbey

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Butler also truly revels in being the Mr. October of basketball. When you get to be his age, and with his knees, you only get so many miles per year. He is a playoff god.
He is incredible, not sure I have seen a player who seems as in control of the game for 48 minutes (even when off the floor) since Jordan. Last night I thought he was basically in third gear, but always ready to kick it up to assassin mode if NY pushed him to it. It also helps that Adebayo is back to 2020 mode and Lowry and Love can smell a shot at another ring.
 

ifmanis5

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Jordan Poole (GSW): 0 pts (0/2 2p, 0/2 3p), 3 reb, 2 ast, 2 tov in 10 min

a complete no-show

maybe I'm biased (never been a fan), but he seems to come up small in big spots
Maybe he was mad that he wasn't starting last night? But yeah, agreed.
Their core of the future has come up empty. Poole (huge contract), Wiseman (gone), Moody (doesn't play), Kuminga (doesn't play). Ouch.
Poole is a good offensive player and has been very good at times but also he is apt to disappear at times and take terrible shots. Plus he doesn't really gel with the older core. Punch comment here.
 

bbc23

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Salty but facts.
View: https://twitter.com/hoopshype/status/1655891565972160514

Steve Kerr on the Lakers: "They are a team that plays with a lot of gamesmanship, they understand how to generate some calls. I thought they took some flops and were rewarded."
To be clear we're talking about the same Warriors that Andrew Bogut had this to say about his time there right?

"One thing that was crazy about that run was the shit that I used to get away with screening, man it was all time. I knew if I was in Milwaukee and I set that I'd foul out in the first quarter, but playing in Golden State, when they started to become that underdog team that was building up, I knew once Steph or Klay got hot, the refs would be in the moment as well.
"I could literally clothesline someone off the next pindown, I know Klay just hit 3 in a row, the crowd's on their feet as he's getting his 4th and I could punch somebody in the face on a screen, knock em out and they wouldn't call it. Klay would get his 4th 3, and even the refs would go 'Wow' (and ignore it), it was crazy.
"Then I get traded to Dallas to set those same screens and I'd get 3 fouls in the first quarter, It was just crazy with the stuff I used to get away with there."
I'd love to see what calls the Lakers got that were incorrect though so feel free to link clips where the refs got it wrong!
 

Tony C

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Golden State is really a hard team to figure out. On the hand, obviously just have to respect the fuck out of their rings and just how great Curry is, how smart Kerr is, how classy they both are, and how their system is incomparably beautiful. All that helped by Klay, Wiggins, and Dray being the ultimate complementary players. Yet for a classy (I'm leaving Dray out of that), veteran team that has a great system and is cohesive af after running it for so many years, this year shows a bizarre dysfunction. The Dray punch symbolizes it, but seems to go beyond that. The inability to develop and integrate in very talented young players -- the supposed 2nd timeline players -- the really bad body language on the bench,;the collapse of Poole; the freezing out of other players (where has Kuminga been?); the idiotic whining about the refs without even a single egregiously bad call to use as an example; and just really dumb mental errors from Curry's timeout w/ no timeout to his simply throwing the ball out of bounds, to 2 terrible hero-ball heaves by Klay, to Dray throwing the ball straight to AD on the next to last play (though I guess AD also anticipated well) ....those are just not what you'd expect from a smart organization that is well coached, has veteran leadership, and has generally been together for a long time.

Compare that to the Lakers. A shit-ton of turnover and new players, overall I think less talented, a rookie coach, and an awful start to the season. Not to mention all the Westbrook drama and a roster that was just poorly constructed by Pelinka until he bailed himself out 2/3 of the way through the year -- theoretically too late for a team to cohere. But, all that as a given, at the end of the day we see undrafted Reaves outplaying Wiseman, Kuminga, and Moody; Walker (and Rui and other bench players) not sulking and coming off the bench to give the sort of instant offense Poole is supposed to provide; and, while I'm still puzzled that they won last night (didn't it seem like GS out-played them all game long?), a defense that is just tough as nails; and, lastly, even when down 12 they just stuck to it until they seemed to just wear down a GS team that was either/both mentally and physically tired. That speaks to Ham being a really underrated coach but also, and I know this will get brickbats from the LeBron haters, great veteran leadership.
 

Auger34

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Lost in all this is that if Tatum began like a quarter of a second sooner we are talking about how not calling the timeout left the Sixers rotations underprepared in leaving a shooter wide open for the game winner. It's the process vs the result and all too often the result sways options way too far in one direction.
This has been repeated multiple times by people who agree with the no timeout decision and it’s really not only minimizing a big mistake in the process but is somehow making it a positive

For one, isn’t it possible that the Sixers defenders recognized that Tatum took forever to get moving and understood there was no chance a pass and shot could have got off before 0? Therefore, they knew that they could completely leave their man and it wouldn’t matter? In other words, they forced him to make a pass knowing that the game would be over? That seems possible if not likely, considering he didn’t get moving until 5 seconds left.

Second, getting going that late is exactly the point why a timeout could have been needed! You’re down by 1! It’s not a tie game, why are you consciously playing for the last shot?!?!

@Deathofthebambino covered another reason why the no timeout thing isn’t nearly the strategic benefit that some people are making it out to be. They ran a play that I think the Sixers would have tried to get them into in the first place. It’s a 2 man game that was basically guaranteed to get Smart a shot
 

lars10

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Maybe he was mad that he wasn't starting last night? But yeah, agreed.
Their core of the future has come up empty. Poole (huge contract), Wiseman (gone), Moody (doesn't play), Kuminga (doesn't play). Ouch.
Poole is a good offensive player and has been very good at times but also he is apt to disappear at times and take terrible shots. Plus he doesn't really gel with the older core. Punch comment here.
To me he's the ultimate front runner.. when his team is winning he's all about the swagger and mean mugging etc.. when his team is down he's nowhere to be seen. He thinks he deserves the same respect as Klay and Steph but has done half or less of the work.
 

Auger34

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To me he's the ultimate front runner.. when his team is winning he's all about the swagger and mean mugging etc.. when his team is down he's nowhere to be seen. He thinks he deserves the same respect as Klay and Steph but has done half or less of the work.
That’s a good way to put it.

He’s also a sneaky dirty player (which he probably learned from Klay and Draymond). From my view, as a fan, I can’t stand him and I don’t respect him at all (I loathe Draymond but I at least have to respect what he’s done)
 

Reverend

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Joker just moseyed on past the court side seats and casually handed Ishbia the ball and moseyed along without stopping.

Baller as shit.
 

TrapperAB

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ESPN.com is weird. The current headline in the Denver-Phoenix game is "Nuggets hold edge in Game 5" -- they used almost the exact same verbiage during the Celtics game. In the latter case, the 76ers were up by 16 at the time... the Nuggets are currently up by 21. That's an "edge"?
 

luckiestman

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ESPN.com is weird. The current headline in the Denver-Phoenix game is "Nuggets hold edge in Game 5" -- they used almost the exact same verbiage during the Celtics game. In the latter case, the 76ers were up by 16 at the time... the Nuggets are currently up by 21. That's an "edge"?

ESPN is a joke-ass organization man. Has been for a long time.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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its been 30+ years, but is Jokic a better passer than Bird?
I've seen them both play - Jokic is better imo but he has a huge advantage physically.

Incidentally, I feel like Bird would love playing with someone like Joker given how he approaches the game.
 

m0ckduck

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Warriors and Heat currently have same NBA title odds (+1500) on FanDuel despite one being up 3-1 in their series and the other being down 3-1.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Flagrant on Hart on a 3 by Butler. Butler's "natural" shooting motion, on a straight up 3, took him 1 1/2-2 feet inside the 3 point arc. The NBA needs to address this.
 

Auger34

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Flagrant on Hart on a 3 by Butler. Butler's "natural" shooting motion, on a straight up 3, took him 1 1/2-2 feet inside the 3 point arc. The NBA needs to address this.
Kicked his leg out and landed inside the 3 point line. It was reviewed and fucking upgraded….just unbelievably bad
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This game is like watching two rabid raccoons fight over a dirty diaper in the middle of a sludge filled dumpster. Atop a tire fire.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Knicks need to play another strong quarter. The good news is that they won the second and third after a terrible first. 10 points is kind of skinny to defend your season.
 

Murderer's Crow

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This heat team is crazy good at making teams play out of their element. I've watched the knicks pretty much all season and this series is like watching their ghost.
 

Auger34

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Can’t imagine, as a Celtic fan, wanting to see the Heat get anywhere close to the Knicks. Go Knicks! Force a Game 7
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This heat team is crazy good at making teams play out of their element. I've watched the knicks pretty much all season and this series is like watching their ghost.
They are so good at mucking everyone up. And then Jimmying or grifting their way to a win. Its both impressive and terrifying.