2024 Jets: Out of the Darkness - Take 2

[MikeM]

Yeah know there is an alternate reality out there where we didn't drink the "a franchise QB fixes everything" koolaid, hire a different OC who actually had a clue on offense, and end up being the team to sign Russell Wilson for $1m a year latter in the event a flyer guy like Winston or Baker didn't work out in year 1 of post-ZW. No multiple sacrificed 2nd round picks or massive amount of cap space. No mandatory shitty OC hire. No give your QB ownership say in the team. No bad buddy contracts. Still ample money left over if you want to bring in another great backup QB flyer in Fields.

This is kinda a great snapshot moment picture of why they are winners and we are eternal losers.

 

[Tony C]

Rex Ryan (yes I know) was I thought good this morning in his take down of Rodgers before the game. Basically “the emperor has no clothes “ — ie he’s just not that good anymore.

I’ve seen a lot of the Jets this season and he’s okay. Not terrible. Not great. In that mediocre-good range of a competent, aging qb. But among the Jets problems, somehow no one is mentioning the obvious (except for Ryan —squirrel/acorn).

 

[luckiestman]

Rex Ryan (yes I know) was I thought good this morning in his take down of Rodgers before the game. Basically “the emperor has no clothes “ — ie he’s just not that good anymore.

I’ve seen a lot of the Jets this season and he’s okay. Not terrible. Not great. In that mediocre-good range of a competent, aging qb. But among the Jets problems, somehow no one is mentioning the obvious (except for Ryan —squirrel/acorn).

Rodgers isn't Rodgers but he is good enough that if we were playing defense at the level we had been Russell WIlson doesn't go off on us. We had great injury luck on the D for a while. Now because of some GM moves and injuries the D line is not close to the same. We were down two very good corners going into this game. We don;t get turnovers, we don't stop the run. We are just not getting the ball back. Rodgers pick deflated this team. That can't happen. One pick at midfield and the game is over. What is that? I also have no idea what is up with the run game. It is really crazy. We cant run at all and Breece is clearly a good runner as we see what he does in the passing game.

This is a year from hell, like most years.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Rodgers isn't Rodgers but he is good enough that if we were playing defense at the level we had been Russell WIlson doesn't go off on us. We had great injury luck on the D for a while. Now because of some GM moves and injuries the D line is not close to the same. We were down two very good corners going into this game. We don;t get turnovers, we don't stop the run. We are just not getting the ball back. Rodgers pick deflated this team. That can't happen. One pick at midfield and the game is over. What is that? I also have no idea what is up with the run game. It is really crazy. We cant run at all and Breece is clearly a good runner as we see what he does in the passing game.

This is a year from hell, like most years.

Not to go all Lane Johnson on this but the Jets look like a team that is just flat out miserable in large part due to the environment that Rodgers has created.

He’s not elite anymore but he is currently Top 5-6 in yards and TDs. The 7 INTs are concerning because he’s never been a high INT guy. But one of those last night wasn’t his fault. The other one over the middle clearly was and was a forced throw and seems to have changed the game.

Ultimately, this team is just out of sorts. And the defense is a mess. I have confidence the offense with integrated Adams will be fine. But hard to feel optimistic about the D, if you’re a Jets fan.

 

[johnmd20]

Not to go all Lane Johnson on this but the Jets look like a team that is just flat out miserable in large part due to the environment that Rodgers has created.

He’s not elite anymore but he is currently Top 5-6 in yards and TDs. The 7 INTs are concerning because he’s never been a high INT guy. But one of those last night wasn’t his fault. The other one over the middle clearly was and was a forced throw and seems to have changed the game.

Ultimately, this team is just out of sorts. And the defense is a mess. I have confidence the offense with integrated Adams will be fine. But hard to feel optimistic about the D, if you’re a Jets fan.

Cleveland and the Jets. When one player is treated much differently than all the other players for diva reasons, it destroys chemistry and wrecks the team from the inside.

Rodgers was poison for teams when he was elite. Now it's just poison without the elite.

 

[Justthetippett]

Not to go all Lane Johnson on this but the Jets look like a team that is just flat out miserable in large part due to the environment that Rodgers has created.

He’s not elite anymore but he is currently Top 5-6 in yards and TDs. The 7 INTs are concerning because he’s never been a high INT guy. But one of those last night wasn’t his fault. The other one over the middle clearly was and was a forced throw and seems to have changed the game.

Ultimately, this team is just out of sorts. And the defense is a mess. I have confidence the offense with integrated Adams will be fine. But hard to feel optimistic about the D, if you’re a Jets fan.

The difference in a guy like Rodgers and Mahomes (or Brady) when adversity hits is just very striking. In these down moments, the truly great QBs find a way to keep things on track until the team can stabilize and build toward their potential. I don't feel like Rodgers offers that for his team. Yes, the defense probably lost that game last night but there's a whole culture of individualism, blame, etc. that does not bode well for team success. Rodgers still has a ton of physical talent, but he's not leading or connecting his teammates.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Cleveland and the Jets. When one player is treated much differently than all the other players for diva reasons, it destroys chemistry and wrecks the team from the inside.

Rodgers was poison for teams when he was elite. Now it's just poison without the elite.

They're close to locked into him next year too with $49m in dead money and no realistic alternatives in free agency or the draft for acquiring somebody to give them better QB play in the short term.

 

[BigSoxFan]

The difference in a guy like Rodgers and Mahomes (or Brady) when adversity hits is just very striking. In these down moments, the truly great QBs find a way to keep things on track until the team can stabilize and build toward their potential. I don't feel like Rodgers offers that for his team. Yes, the defense probably lost that game last night but there's a whole culture of individualism, blame, etc. that does not bode well for team success. Rodgers still has a ton of physical talent, but he's not leading or connecting his teammates.

Absolutely. The great QBs are stabilizing forces. Peyton, Brady, Mahomes, etc. Rodgers goes out of his way to be an asshole. That weird interaction with Saleh was a perfect example. Nobody should feel bad for the Jets because all of this was known but the experience has to be miserable for the guys in the locker room. I bet they’d all be fine swapping him out for a lesser talent.

 

[Cellar-Door]

One thing about Rodgers to me is... the Patriots game was an outlier, every other game we've seen that he can't do what used to be his superpower... buying tons of time with his legs then making crazy throws... basically what Mahomes does a lot of as well. Rodgers can't consistently do it anymore (one thing that lead to Russ Wilson's decline too), and so he has to make more decisions earlier... leading to more picks, where 8 years ago he just keeps rolling around back there until somebody is more open.

 

[luckiestman]

One thing about Rodgers to me is... the Patriots game was an outlier, every other game we've seen that he can't do what used to be his superpower... buying tons of time with his legs then making crazy throws... basically what Mahomes does a lot of as well. Rodgers can't consistently do it anymore (one thing that lead to Russ Wilson's decline too), and so he has to make more decisions earlier... leading to more picks, where 8 years ago he just keeps rolling around back there until somebody is more open.

He looked physically good against the Pats. The Denver guys got after him and fucked him up a little, hammy, and then the Vikings got him, ankle. He has not moved well at all since Denver beat his ass.

Certain things are such a disappointment. We beat these teams running the ball and playing D with Zach. Zach won at Denver twice, at GB and at Pitt(4th quarter game winning drive). Zach beat Buffalo twice at home. Was he playing QB better than Rodgers? No way. We were getting turnovers and running the ball sprinkled in with some of Zach arm talent while minimizing his brain pauses.

I mean we were right there with the Chiefs in the damn Swift Bowl last year. What a catastrophe.

 

[Cellar-Door]

He looked physically good against the Pats. The Denver guys got after him and fucked him up a little, hammy, and then the Vikings got him, ankle. He has not moved well at all since Denver beat his ass.

Certain things are such a disappointment. We beat these teams running the ball and playing D with Zach. Zach won at Denver twice, at GB and at Pitt(4th quarter game winning drive). Zach beat Buffalo twice at home. Was he playing QB better than Rodgers? No way. We were getting turnovers and running the ball sprinkled in with some of Zach arm talent while minimizing his brain pauses.

I mean we were right there with the Chiefs in the damn Swift Bowl last year. What a catastrophe.

I don't think it's just beaing beat up... though that doesn't help. NE was TERRIBLE in that game at edge contain which meant he often got a nice head start. Good defenses are better positioned and close quicker. But yeah just one part of it... he's also insisting on dumb offense (not much pre-snap movement, total QB control, etc.).

 

[luckiestman]

I don't think it's just beaing beat up... though that doesn't help. NE was TERRIBLE in that game at edge contain which meant he often got a nice head start. Good defenses are better positioned and close quicker. But yeah just one part of it... he's also insisting on dumb offense (not much pre-snap movement, total QB control, etc.).

I don’t have the stats from last night but the motion thing wasn’t true anymore against Buffalo. They had motion on 75% of their plays or something like that. Downing has better plans than Hackett did. They did a good job against Watt. That was an organizational victory last night. The Steelers are just better run from top to bottom. They are maxing the potential of their players.

 

[Return of the Dewey]

I honestly don't blame the Jets for acquiring Rodgers. With Wilson and Hall, and their defense, it was worth the risk. What was stupid was acquiring Rodgers, but not doing any improvements on the OL for the 2023-24 season. Rodgers may still have gotten injured during the season, but, who knows. Last season the defense was healthier, deeper and better.

 

[luckiestman]

I honestly don't blame the Jets for acquiring Rodgers. With Wilson and Hall, and their defense, it was worth the risk. What was stupid was acquiring Rodgers, but not doing any improvements on the OL for the 2023-24 season. Rodgers may still have gotten injured during the season, but, who knows. Last season the defense was healthier, deeper and better.

The Dline thing this year is just so bad. We don’t have a run stuffer guy, Jermaine Johnson who is a good every down DE tore his achilles, we let Huff walk and replaced with Reddick which is a huge upgrade if the guy played but … We trade JFM away for cap stuff I guess but Jesus has that been an epic fail. This D was always mediocre against the run but being mediocre could still put teams in passing downs where we could really get after their ass. Locked down by excellent corners, opposing offenses were facing a big problem. This year they just gash us in the run. We should have taken the bye after London.

 

[MikeM]

Just win tomorrow vs one of the worst teams in the NFL who we already beat up on the first time. Then without getting greedy or carried away with beating a crappy team it's a realistically set 6-3 goal from there.

Superbowl talk was always silly nonsense. There is still a path on our somewhat friendly schedule though to have a chance at that last playoff spot in a weaker AFC field and to break the other streak.

 

[MikeM]

Investing into Aaron Rodgers is the worst mistake this franchise has made in my lifetime. There is not even close a second.

Said it on day 1, said it multiple times over the last year +, and will say it one last time here today. Pretty much every free agent QB with an extensive starting QB experience in that post 2022 field of 1 year free agent flyers, plus a good OC hire and minus all the bs sacrifices that were made to get him here and make this "Aaron's team", would of of lead to a better overall outcome then where we ended up today.

We had the chance to replace Zach and end up with something that could of been special...and we royally wasted it on this BS.

 

[quint]

Meh, it’s the Jets.

Odds were always through the roof they were going to fuck up no matter who they brought in to quarterback this trainwreck.

 

[johnmd20]

Meh, it’s the Jets.

Odds were always through the roof they were going to fuck up no matter who they brought in to quarterback this trainwreck.

But Rodgers is poison. He's the opposite of a leader. He's an asshole and a me first douche. This was survivable when he was elite, until he made the playoffs and choked, every year.

Now? He's washed. So it's getting ugly.

 

[snowmanny]

But in April they should be able to draft one of the QBs

 

[DJnVa]

But in April they should be able to draft one of the QBs

Shadeur Sanders to the Jets?

Please, please, please.

 

[E5 Yaz]

2024 Jets: Back into the Darkness?

 

[luckiestman]

 

[MikeM]

Shadeur Sanders to the Jets?

Please, please, please.

Nope.

Being "all in" on Aaron Rodgers is the gift that is going to keep giving. And the price (and sacrifices) being paid to have him as the QB of the team run though 2025 at this point.

The defacto GM isn't taking QB in the 1st round of what is going to be a one last run it back repackage effort. An effort that you can expect to be keeping Hackett around, and that will most certainly be passing on that out in an aging Davante's contract that would avoid putting us on the hook for those two $38m+ cap hits on his age 33 and 34 seasons.

Anything full rebuild or draft a lottery Qb is 2026 talk at the earliest.

 

[MikeM]

2024 Jets: Back into the Darkness?

Making peace with it apparently.

 

[Tony C]

Making Peace with the Darkness....he's the douche that just keeps douch-ing.

 

[E5 Yaz]

@RichCimini
This is crazy: #Jets had 0 turnovers, held the Patriots to 247 yards -- and still lost. They're the first team to lose a game in which they did not turn the ball over and held their opponent under 250 yards since Week 3 of 2012.

In 2012, Aaron Rodgers and the Packers lost, 14-12, to the Seahawks in the "Fail Mary" game. Since that game, teams to do that had been 220-0 until today. (ESPN Research).

 

[luckiestman]

Shadeur Sanders to the Jets?

Please, please, please.

if you’re begging go all the way; Deion as HC

 

[E5 Yaz]

if you’re begging go all the way; Deion as HC

I thought that was implied

 

[azsoxpatsfan]

View attachment 90652

2024 Patriots: Adopting the Darkness
2924 Jets: Born in the Darkness

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

if you’re begging go all the way; Deion as HC

Seems like a domed stadium should be in the discussion as well.

 

[MikeM]

if you’re begging go all the way; Deion as HC

That falls under the Rodgers umbrella of costs that will still be getting paid out this upcoming season.

Rodgers and the 2025 Rodgers Take 3 season is going to have to sign off on any HC we bring in. Which realistically is going to thin out the option field even more so then you'd expect from just being a loser team destination.

People need to be thinking more along the lines of a fired Doug Peterson or Frank Reich type hire (since you kinda have to hire an offensive pedigree guy to offset an unfirable Hackett) then some brilliant and in-demand mind like a Ben Johnson. Or anybody really who is going to turn the job down simply based on not being given a year 1 opportunity to to put their own complete "my way" stamp on how the team is being built/run.

 

[luckiestman]

That falls under the Rodgers umbrella of costs that will still be getting paid out this upcoming season.

Rodgers and the 2025 Rodgers Take 3 season is going to have to sign off on any HC we bring in. Which realistically is going to thin out the option field even more so then you'd expect from just being a loser team destination.

People need to be thinking more along the lines of a fired Doug Peterson or Frank Reich type hire (since you kinda have to hire an offensive pedigree guy to offset an unfirable Hackett) then some brilliant and in-demand mind like a Ben Johnson. Or anybody really who is going to turn the job down simply based on not being given a year 1 opportunity to to put their own complete "my way" stamp on how the team is being built/run.

I hope this is wrong but if it is right:

Mike McCarthy …come on down

 

[Justthetippett]

That falls under the Rodgers umbrella of costs that will still be getting paid out this upcoming season.

Rodgers and the 2025 Rodgers Take 3 season is going to have to sign off on any HC we bring in. Which realistically is going to thin out the option field even more so then you'd expect from just being a loser team destination.

People need to be thinking more along the lines of a fired Doug Peterson or Frank Reich type hire (since you kinda have to hire an offensive pedigree guy to offset an unfirable Hackett) then some brilliant and in-demand mind like a Ben Johnson. Or anybody really who is going to turn the job down simply based on not being given a year 1 opportunity to to put their own complete "my way" stamp on how the team is being built/run.

I think this is right, and it's kind of a depressing list. They'll likely can the front office too, which will create it's own instability. And any new HC might want to take a hard look at the defensive staff. It's very Jetsy. With a win yesterday it actually would have been possible to dream on a WC spot and some salvaged dignity. Not really anymore.

 

[rodderick]

Rodgers teams are always so juiceless and fall apart at the first sign of adversity. There's nothing that brings me more joy than the fact that the end of his career will shine a light on the huge fraud he's always been, both on and off the field. Ultimate box score guy, the type to check his passer rating after a loss.

 

[Gash Prex]

Reddick seems like a cool dude and a big BB fan

 

[MikeM]

Well, least I was right on the Texans. Although beating them after losing to the worst non-Bryce Young QB'd team in the NFL last week was the most Jets'y thing to do.

Old, statue slow, and now clearly less accurate Aaron Rodgers is still better and more fun to watch then Sam Darnold or Zach Wilson playing QB for us.That is a bright side takeaway from tonight to cling to I guess?

 

[changer591]

I don't care that it's the Jets and I know a few posters were mocking Al Michaels for how he described it, but that was a hell of a catch by Wilson. Not as good as OBJ's, but probably the second most athletic catch I've ever seen (there are some crazy catches like Edelman's in the Falcons SB but that was less "holy shit how does the human body accomplish that?).
Now that being said, I hope Wilson gets mad at Rodgers for not giving him enough targets and demands a trade to the Patriots.

 

[BaseballJones]

Just saw the replay of the Wilson catch. Amazing.

But how was it a TD? His right foot touched, then touched again, and as he landed, his shin and knee hit out of bounds.





I thought we learned from the Boutte (or was it Douglas? Polk maybe?) that two touches from the same foot don’t constitute a catch, and here we see two angles where it’s clear that the shin/knee touches out of bounds as he lands. How was it a catch?

 

[NobodyInteresting]

Just saw the replay of the Wilson catch. Amazing.

But how was it a TD? His right foot touched, then touched again, and as he landed, his shin and knee hit out of bounds.

I thought we learned from the Boutte (or was it Douglas? Think it was Boutte) that two touches from the same foot don’t constitute a catch, and here we see two angles where it’s clear that the shin/knee touches out of bounds as he lands. How was it a catch?

This was my reaction too.

We saw with the Pats catch that [part of the foot hits inbounds and then the rest of the foot comes down out of bounds] = out of bounds
It seems inconsistent that [part of the leg hits inbounds and then the rest of the leg comes down out of bounds] = good catch.

If the knee comes down in, and then the thigh is out, I can buy that as a catch because you can view the pivoting of the leg on the knee as a new motion. But this one wasn't that. The leg doesn't pivot on the shin. It's all the same motion.

Great catch though and the Texans had plenty of other breaks that they couldn't capitalise on so they can't complain too much.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

The NFL catch rules are just bizarre. But what an amazing catch. The only thing I'm shocked about is the NFL didn't overturn it as they seem at time to overrun the most amazing plays that should be highlights and call them back.

 

[cshea]

Forget the leg,watch the ball that is bobbled throughout the process. And not secured.

 

[changer591]

It was all about the shin which touched inbounds before the knee (at least that is how I interpreted it).
Either way, the final result was what was best for the Pats. I want them to get the best draft pick they can.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Forget the leg,watch the ball that is bobbled throughout the process. And not secured.

If it was secured (and I'm not saying it was), I think it was a catch because his shin touched before his knee was out of bounds.

 

[BaseballJones]

But it's all one motion with one continuous body part. Kind of like if the toe hits in bounds, but then the heel hits out of bounds as it lands. All one continuous motion.

 

[BigJimEd]

Does the whole shin or just part of the shin need to be inbounds? Or does it depend on which way he's going?

 

[Curt S Loew]

But it's all one motion with one continuous body part. Kind of like if the toe hits in bounds, but then the heel hits out of bounds as it lands. All one continuous motion.

The shin bone's connected to the knee bone. Different parts.

Damn, I gave myself an earworm.

 

[BaseballJones]

The shin bone's connected to the knee bone. Different parts.

Damn, I gave myself an earworm.

The heel bone is connected to the toe bone. Different parts. Same deal!

 

[Curt S Loew]

The heel bone is connected to the toe bone. Different parts. Same deal!

They consider the foot one part. Shin one part. If either touches, your good.

Yeah. It's bizzare.

 

[joe dokes]

I think the "shin-knee" comparison is correct, but confusing. If I understand it, it's more like "anything but the foot." (Like Madden's book "One Knee Equal's Two Feet.") Maybe its like the "tie goes the runner" shorthand in baseball. It's really, "the ball has to beat the runner."

 

[luckiestman]

I don’t want to debate the rule. I’m a doomer, as soon as I saw the shin in slo-mo I knew by rule it was a catch. If you don’t see that, you don’t want to see that.

I assume some down by contact logic goes in to why the rule is written in this way but I don’t know the history of it.