2024 Jets: Out of the Darkness - Take 2

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

I didn't watch the game, but waking up this morning to all the debate about this [catch/non-catch] feels like listening to a large group of rabbis all arguing with each other about some random sentence in the Talmud. ("No! only if the moss is on the north side of the house!" "No! If the moss is on the north *or* the east side of the house!")

Like, that we're spending so much time on this argument might mean that we've lost the plot a bit

Not a criticism of anyone here. More a comment on the NFL rulebook.

 

[Curt S Loew]

I mean, by rule it's a catch. Yes, argue the rule if you want.

 

[DJnVa]

Tapping same foot twice isn't a catch. Tapping it once and then the same shin is a catch. It's weird, but it's easy to apply.

I think they should go to the college rule in the end zone only. It will show off more athleticism by DBs and WRs.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Tapping same foot twice isn't a catch. Tapping it once and then the same shin is a catch. It's weird, but it's easy to apply.

I think they should go to the college rule in the end zone only. It will show off more athleticism by DBs and WRs.

Doesn’t requiring two feet force them to show more athleticism? And if you want the college rule, then go all the way with it because we really don’t need another rule book nuance to litigate (was the act of the reception in the EZ or inside the 1 yard line?).

 

[DJnVa]

Doesn’t requiring two feet force them to show more athleticism?

Okay, yes, I guess that's an argument too, but I think you kinda get what I mean---one foot toe taps, etc. are just gonna look more athletic. And I would think it might help scoring a bit, although probably not really in any way that actually matters.

And if you want the college rule, then go all the way with it because we really don’t need another rule book nuance to litigate (was the act of the reception in the EZ or inside the 1 yard line?).

Meh, these things (spot of ball and how many feet are in) are already looked at. Not sure it really adds any appreciable time to a review.

 

[Jungleland]

Unreal catch. Saw some discrediting it in the game thread and man that’s just sour grapes - pretty easily at the very least going to end up one of the best, if not the best catch of this season. I find it kind of crazy that the shin can be inbounds before the knee hits out, and slightly less so but still crazy that the they’re counted separately for these purposes, but by letter of the rule it was absolutely a catch.

Gotta admit I was wrong - Wilson has looked substantially better than Adams since the trade, which I didn’t think tracked with Davante’s Raiders stint and the slow start to GW’s season. Really impressive couple games on not only the stat sheet but the eye test as well.

 

[dynomite]

There's going to be a lot of "if"-ing happening the next 10 days in NY about the Jets. There's a chance that 9-8 is good enough to get the 7th seed. Right now I'm seeing the AFC standings as:

5) Broncos (5-3)
6) Ravens (5-3)
7) Chargers (4-3)
8) Colts (4-4)
9) Bengals (3-5)
10) Jets (3-6)

If it was secured (and I'm not saying it was), I think it was a catch because his shin touched before his knee was out of bounds.

View attachment 90961

I agree with @luckiestman. As soon as I saw this still in the replay I knew they'd call it a catch. As always I don't think anyone really knows what a catch is in the NFL -- "You know it when you see it" doesn't even really apply -- but in that still he has the ball secured and a shin down, so I figured they would call it a catch, even though it's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[BaseballJones]

What's surprising to me about the call is that it was originally ruled incomplete, so they had to have *conclusive* evidence that it was, in fact, a catch. That seems....sketchy to me. But like others have said, it actually works to the Pats' benefit for the Jets to win, so I guess I'm happy about the result.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Tapping same foot twice isn't a catch. Tapping it once and then the same shin is a catch. It's weird, but it's easy to apply.

I think they should go to the college rule in the end zone only. It will show off more athleticism by DBs and WRs.

Do we know if the ankle counts or is it too close to the foot? If he caught it, sprained his doing it, is it a catch?

 

[Justthetippett]

Do we know if the ankle counts or is it too close to the foot? If he caught it, sprained his doing it, is it a catch?

I'm more interested in the calf. I'm guessing not since it's on the wrong side of the body. Has to be frontal.

 

[j-man]

There's going to be a lot of "if"-ing happening the next 10 days in NY about the Jets. There's a chance that 9-8 is good enough to get the 7th seed. Right now I'm seeing the AFC standings as:

5) Broncos (5-3)
6) Ravens (5-3)
7) Chargers (4-3)
8) Colts (4-4)
9) Bengals (3-5)
10) Jets (3-6)



I agree with @luckiestman. As soon as I saw this still in the replay I knew they'd call it a catch. As always I don't think anyone really knows what a catch is in the NFL -- "You know it when you see it" doesn't even really apply -- but in that still he has the ball secured and a shin down, so I figured they would call it a catch, even though it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Buff is a likely loss but if the jets win all others because denver will likely be 9-8 at 10-7 they wouild be in but as a bronocos fan i think u will spit with miami and be 9-8

 

[j-man]

@ zona 53%
indy 52 %
Sea 65%
@ MIA 50%
@ JAX 57%
Rams 51%
@ Buff 35%
MIA 50%

 

[j-man]

weird part is u couild win the next 6 with @ Mia your toughest game

 

[luckiestman]

Jets only play 2 games in November. Seems kind of a weird quirk of the schedule. Play 10/31 on a Thursday and then play 12/1. This happens. Because of the mini bye and the bye.

The November games are the 10th and the 17th.

 

[MikeM]

The Jets FO actually did the right thing today and got some value out of a busted out situation with Mike Williams. Honestly like half shocked to see that lol.

I thought Tampa should of been the one most making that call, but I'll be curious to see how much better MW can do over in Pitt now that Arthur Smith seems to be trying to open things up more with Russ at QB.

 

[MikeM]

Ok, tankathon watch officially starts today.

Need a Miami win tomorrow.

 

[j-man]

Ok, tankathon watch officially starts today.

Need a Miami win tomorrow.

i get it but can u beat the colts and then tank the other 6

 

[MikeM]

So we are also at the point now where we can all acknowledge that firing Saleh mid season, as the best coach in our building, was a complete mistake. Right? At least if chasing more total wins was the top 2024 priority.

I mean it seems pretty crystal clear to me that the defense took a substantial step backwards as soon as he was removed from that equation.

 

[johnmd20]

So we are also at the point now where we can all acknowledge that firing Saleh mid season, as the best coach in our building, was a complete mistake. Right? At least if chasing more total wins was the top 2024 priority.

I mean it seems pretty crystal clear to me that the defense took a substantial step backwards as soon as he was removed from that equation.

When your coach and GM is a washed Aaron Rodgers, it all falls apart. Rodgers stinks and the Jets gave him the entire team. This is the result, Adot of like 2 yards.

 

[tims4wins]

When your coach and GM is a washed Aaron Rodgers, it all falls apart. Rodgers stinks and the Jets gave him the entire team. This is the result, Adot of like 2 yards.

View: https://twitter.com/joshdubowap/status/1855767956699091434?s=61

 

[MikeM]

When your coach and GM is a washed Aaron Rodgers, it all falls apart. Rodgers stinks and the Jets gave him the entire team. This is the result, Adot of like 2 yards.

Yeah, no doubt. I been beating this season was going to end up a non playoff disappointment drum because of that for 2 years now.

But I mean there is watching a still flawed non-playoff team with better overall QB play then Zach, and watching that same flawed team with a now notably regressed post-Saleh firing defense. That really does put them back into the worst team in the league discussion imo since "name value" doesn't win you football games.

The difference between the #1 positioned team in the tankathon rankings and the #11 team right now (we are #8 fwiw) is one single win. So there is that at least.

 

[joe dokes]

When your coach and GM is a washed Aaron Rodgers, it all falls apart. Rodgers stinks and the Jets gave him the entire team. This is the result, Adot of like 2 yards.

I'm not certain that Rodgers is washed. I *think* he could play for OC's not named Aaron Rodgers. But he can no longer run the game like he did 5 years ago -- though he's trying to do that now -- and he apparently isn't cool with listening to coaches who are intent on coaching the now-version of Aaron Rodgers, not the 5 years ago version. And Rodgers is GMing for the 5 years ago version, of Aaron Rodgers, too.

Compare it to Brady and Tampa. Brady ran the offense and "helped" pick the players, but he could walk the walk.

 

[johnmd20]

I'm not certain that Rodgers is washed. I *think* he could play for OC's not named Aaron Rodgers. But he can no longer run the game like he did 5 years ago -- though he's trying to do that now -- and he apparently isn't cool with listening to coaches who are intent on coaching the now-version of Aaron Rodgers, not the 5 years ago version. And Rodgers is GMing for the 5 years ago version, of Aaron Rodgers, too.

Compare it to Brady and Tampa. Brady ran the offense and "helped" pick the players, but he could walk the walk.

Rodgers doesn't have any skills. He won't throw down the field. He can't move. He isn't good at avoiding the rush. His numbers are putrid despite having a bevy of weapons.

I'm not sure he's anything but washed. He was poor in 2022 and then tore his achilles and now he's old and sucks. 40 years olds usually don't turn things around. Brady isn't a good example, what Brady did is impossible and will never be repeated.

 

[scott bankheadcase]

Rodgers doesn't have any skills. He won't throw down the field. He can't move. He isn't good at avoiding the rush. His numbers are putrid despite having a bevy of weapons.

I'm not sure he's anything but washed. He was poor in 2022 and then tore his achilles and now he's old and sucks. 40 years olds usually don't turn things around. Brady isn't a good example, what Brady did is impossible and will never be repeated.

He's not even "smart" washed like Manning was in his last year. Peyton figured out he couldn't do anything and then started just throwing short passes and handing off and riding a defense.

Possible Rodgers could have done something similar, but instead he got his defensive head coach fired and still thinks he can do it all, to disastrous results.

 

[Tony C]

He's not totally washed as his arm still has some sling in it. But he's definitely in the Joe Flacco phase of his career, only he doesn't realize it. More than anything, from game 1 vs the 49ers you could see he can no longer move with pressure coming. He had such a balletic skill in his prime -- never the fastest/studliest athlete, but very quick feet that gave him great maneuverability. Those days are long gone. But, per comment below, he hasn't lost it all -- he's still a cancer!

Kind of feel like the Jets have quit. Coach has lost the locker room, probably should fire him.

Also, Rodgers is a team cancer. The opposite of a leader.

So we are also at the point now where we can all acknowledge that firing Saleh mid season, as the best coach in our building, was a complete mistake. Right? At least if chasing more total wins was the top 2024 priority.

I mean it seems pretty crystal clear to me that the defense took a substantial step backwards as soon as he was removed from that equation.

Couldn't agree more. Saleh was dealt a bad hand; definitely the best coach Least of their problems. And simply looks like the defense said "fuck it" after he was fired. Lots of quit.

Good news for him as helps boost his stock back up. Saleh'll have an easy time getting a DC position and can imagine in the future he might end up HC again.

 

[Van Everyman]

He's not totally washed as his arm still has some sling in it. But he's definitely in the Joe Flacco phase of his career, only he doesn't realize it. More than anything, from game 1 vs the 49ers you could see he can no longer move with pressure coming. He had such a balletic skill in his prime -- never the fastest/studliest athlete, but very quick feet that gave him great maneuverability. Those days are long gone. But, per comment below, he hasn't lost it all -- he's still a cancer!



Couldn't agree more. Saleh was dealt a bad hand; definitely the best coach Least of their problems. And simply looks like the defense said "fuck it" after he was fired. Lots of quit.

Good news for him as helps boost his stock back up. Saleh'll have an easy time getting a DC position and can imagine in the future he might end up HC again.

aka The Todd Bowles Career Track

 

[Sandwich Pick]

He's not totally washed as his arm still has some sling in it. But he's definitely in the Joe Flacco phase of his career, only he doesn't realize it. More than anything, from game 1 vs the 49ers you could see he can no longer move with pressure coming. He had such a balletic skill in his prime -- never the fastest/studliest athlete, but very quick feet that gave him great maneuverability. Those days are long gone. But, per comment below, he hasn't lost it all -- he's still a cancer

I know it's his shtick and a lot of people are tired of his WTYS column, but Magary has been (correctly) beating this drum for years now.

I feel awful for the Jets fans who knew all this to a degree, but really hoped they were wrong.

From 2021

This man makes any room 700 percent more uncomfortable when he enters it

Nothing is ever Aaron Rodgers’s fault. It’s all his GM’s fault for firing McCarthy, and for vastly improving the front seven, and for keeping the offensive line intact, and for making Rodgers the highest-paid player in the league after only seven months on the job. WHAT AN INCOMPETENT PRICK.

Gutekunst brought this podunk franchise into the 21st century and gave the Packers a legitimate front office. Yet none of it matters because he dared to put a succession plan in place at quarterback.

The narrative for the past decade is how the Packers have pissed away Aaron Rodgers’s prime. But now you know it’s Rodgers who lives to waste time, tending to his grudges like bonsai trees and living in an alternate reality where he has six titles instead of a paltry one because a better world accommodated every last one of his whims.

Rodgers will always prize his organizational clout more than he prizes actual winning.

To placate Rodgers, the Packers reworked his deal so that he can throw the exact same empty tantrum again a year from now, traded for a done Randall Cobb, and barely humored all of his other petty requests.

It’d be funny if, after all that, Rodgers fell apart this year. It’s gonna happen sooner rather than later. When it does, some NFL team will hire him as its GM, the same way the Broncos gave their future away to John Elway. You now know exactly how terrible Rodgers will be in that job.

From 2022

Secretly, LaFleur can’t wait to be rid of this fucker, and of all of the people who enable him, once and for all. If it means turning to a pud like Jordan Love, so be it. Whatever. Winning with Aaron Rodgers is never as enjoyable as losing with anyone else.

we’re in for another season where Rodgers insists that there's nothing he can do about the fact that his receivers keep dropping the ball. My man loves having scapegoats handy more than he likes winning Super Bowls.

 

[Van Everyman]

tending to his grudges like bonsai trees

If it means turning to a pud like Jordan Love, so be it.

Winning with Aaron Rodgers is never as enjoyable as losing with anyone else

This is good stuff.

 

[MikeM]

Tankathon update:

With the Miami win tonight the Jets move up to #8 pick slot.

 

[Garshaparra]

As a Defector subscriber, I can confirm that Magary has lost some of his edge, but to be fair, he's had some terrible health problems in recent years (a sudden stroke and fall that left him in a coma, relearning to walk, loss of hearing etc.). They had some other bloggers share the roast-load this year, and there were some outstanding columns produced (the one on the Bills was notably awesome). That said, here's Drew on A-A-Ron in 2023:

His exit from Green Bay was an endless, debilitating affair that reduced nationwide life expectancy by three years. He collects nagging injuries like they’re rare Pokemon cards. He can’t go anywhere without his Randall Cobb. Oh, and he hasn’t won a conference title in well over a decade, playing with his own foot up his ass in every playoff game since. The easy joke here is to remind you of Brett Favre’s time in New York. But this is different, mostly because Brett Favre could still play.

...and 2024:

I could make every Aaron Rodgers joke here that I’ve been making since 2020, but that’s not even fun anymore. I am so, so sick of this man. I’m sick of every photo of him arriving at training camp looking like an indie-label head of state. I’m sick of him trying to pick fights with Travis Kelce by tagging him with a nickname that even Donald Trump would find hacky. I’m sick of him going on Best Damn Pat McAfee Show to formally announce that he’ll be going to Orangetheory later that day. I’m sick of him making more fake boasts than a 14-year-old virgin.

Oh, and I’m sick of watching him play football, because he can’t do it anymore.

Rodgers was pedestrian in his final season in Green Bay, and you want me to think that he’ll be BETTER two years later? With a paper clip holding his leg together? I’m not Albert Breer, man. I have a functioning brain.

 

[mwonow]

Tankathon update:

With the Miami win tonight the Jets move up to #8 pick slot.

AFCE has 3 teams in the top 10. "Impressive"! https://www.tankathon.com/nfl

 

[Van Everyman]

As a Defector subscriber, I can confirm that Magary has lost some of his edge, but to be fair, he's had some terrible health problems in recent years (a sudden stroke and fall that left him in a coma, relearning to walk, loss of hearing etc.). They had some other bloggers share the roast-load this year, and there were some outstanding columns produced (the one on the Bills was notably awesome). That said, here's Drew on A-A-Ron in 2023:



...and 2024:

That’s some serious shade he’s throwing at Bert there.

 

[joe dokes]

I'm a little more willing to accept "washed" after reading this. He sounds and behaves like every athlete I've seen/read about staring down the barrel at Father Time over the last many decades.
Inside Aaron Rodgers' complicated relationship with the Jets - ESPN

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

AFCE has 3 teams in the top 10. "Impressive"! https://www.tankathon.com/nfl

Is there an asterisk next to the Bill's win total since the rest of the division sucks? I heard that's a thing that happens in the AFC East.

 

[MikeM]

I'm a little more willing to accept "washed" after reading this. He sounds and behaves like every athlete I've seen/read about staring down the barrel at Father Time over the last many decades.
Inside Aaron Rodgers' complicated relationship with the Jets - ESPN

First off, F ESPN and anything they write after-the-fact. Nobody did more to help downplay the glaring surrounding concerns and help sell Rogers-to-the-Jets as being this great amazing thing to be celebrated more then they did.

Secondly, I think the biggest takeaway lesson of all in this epic failure is just how clear it's gotten that the Jets' own fanbase itself is ultimately playing their own constant role in helping to nurture this never ending cycle of franchise failure. The valid reasons behind how or why we've got to that broken mentality point doesn't even matter anymore either. Being sucess starved doesn't ultimately justify championing bad decsion making anytime a shallow logic EZ fix solution presents itself, and there probably isn't a fanbase that better mirrors their own desperate to be relevant owner in pro sports today then the New York Jets.

The masses who are now trying retreat back into hanging this one on ownership and the businessmen ultimately making the call to give 99% of this fanbase exactly wanted they wanted and were desperately clamouring for within their own "you have to be all in!" championing cries is BS imo. Actions have consequences. I mean FFS 99% of the fanbase didn't bat an eyelash when we made the arguably worst OC hire in NFL history because they wanted Aaron Rodgers. *YOU* fans that wanted this brought the possibility into existance and wear the L here just as much as having Woody as an owner does. Just as you'll wear the L after-the-fact again when those same shallow logic cries go on to support hiring Rex Ryan as this team's next HC, and/or when it's time again to start in about a need to waste another lottery pick drafting a "savior" QB into a developmental death sentence that still hasn't gotten any better since the last time or 2 we tried it.

I actually don't even fault Rodgers here. Like at all.

 

[MikeM]

So Anthony Richardson might be one of the worst draft picks of all time just based on the "you drafted a non high level playing QB in college simply because he was super athletic" principle imo.

It's equally bad owner craziness like that though that hopefully opens the door though for a division winning Colts run in 2025 with Aaron Rodgers as their QB. Colts fans get their Minny version Favre ending of this script, and Jets fans get the 1 year early FO blow up we are all craving for at this point.

The fit is there!

 

[johnmd20]

So Anthony Richardson might be one of the worst draft picks of all time just based on the "you drafted a non high level playing QB in college QB simply because he was super athletic" principle imo.

It's equally bad owner craziness like that though that hopefully opens the door though for a division winning Colts run in 2025 with Aaron Rodgers as their QB. Colts fans get their Minny version Favre ending of this script, and Jets fans get the 1 year early roster blow up we are all craving for at this point.

The fit is there!

Trey Lance was worse because of the cost.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

So Anthony Richardson might be one of the worst draft picks of all time just based on the "you drafted a non high level playing QB in college simply because he was super athletic" principle imo.

It's equally bad owner craziness like that though that hopefully opens the door though for a division winning Colts run in 2025 with Aaron Rodgers as their QB. Colts fans get their Minny version Favre ending of this script, and Jets fans get the 1 year early FO blow up we are all craving for at this point.

The fit is there!

I think Richardson is a dud but he wasn’t too awful today. He’s still incredibly raw and I think even the most optimistic colts fans thought he’d be a 2-3 year work in progress.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1858920786347614295

 

[BigSoxFan]

View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1858920786347614295

Aaron Rodgers destruction continues

 

[Cellar-Door]

I wonder if the timing on this move is because they want to start the GM search early via backchannels, so Woody can make the GM/Coach hires before he goes back overseas.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I wonder if the timing on this move is because they want to start the GM search early via backchannels, so Woody can make the GM/Coach hires before he goes back overseas.

I think it could be this and also that it was going to happen at the end of the year so why drag it out? The coach is already gone, so the GM was on his last legs especially being this was the end of his deal.

 

[luckiestman]

I wonder if the timing on this move is because they want to start the GM search early via backchannels, so Woody can make the GM/Coach hires before he goes back overseas.

Douglas was totally checked out according to some of the beat guys going back a while. So probably a bit of both.

The only thing that gives this team any chance at all at hiring a decent replacement is that there are so few jobs.

 

[tims4wins]

30-64 with no winning seasons and no playoff appearances. Has to be a candidate for worst GM ever with that many years.

 

[luckiestman]

30-64 with no winning seasons and no playoff appearances. Has to be a candidate for worst GM ever with that many years.

Jags guy has almost same record, almost exact

edit: Balke also 30-64. A Perfect Stranger To Douglas

 

[johnmd20]

30-64 with no winning seasons and no playoff appearances. Has to be a candidate for worst GM ever with that many years.

Hey, he did give full control of the team to Aaron Rodgers. And that must be acknowledged.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Jags guy has almost same record, almost exact

edit: Balke also 30-64. A Perfect Stranger To Douglas

Balke at least made the playoffs and will be leaving a potential franchise QB behind

 

[tims4wins]

Balke at least made the playoffs and will be leaving a potential franchise QB behind

Yeah this. I don’t love Lawrence but they made the playoffs.

 

[nattysez]

Jags guy has almost same record, almost exact

edit: Balke also 30-64. A Perfect Stranger To Douglas

Baalke drove Harbaugh out of SF, discovered that Jim Tomsula and Chip Kelly couldn't save his bacon like Harbaugh did, then somehow convinced Jax to give him another chance to ruin a franchise. He also has a mouthy daughter who insulted the Niners' OC on Twitter while he was GM. I am not a fan.

I wonder if the Jets would try to hire Ray Agnew from the Lions? His familiarity with NY (Giants) and New England might be helpful.

 

[MikeM]

Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) on X

Jets have named former Browns general manager Phil Savage as their interim general manager.