Alan Jackson is overrated? I suppose that’s a take.I flipped an Allen/Jackson coin. Not Allen Jackson, that overrated turd, you fool!!!! . but the football players Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson type of coin. 50/50. It came up Lamar.
As an MVP candidate??? Yeah... duh!!!Alan Jackson is overrated? I suppose that’s a take.
Anyway, I’ll vote Allen for balance.
It’s Most Valuable Player not Most Outstanding PlayerAllen has been amazing this year. But Lamar's numbers are far better.
Lamar Jackson: 300-442 (67.9%), 3,955 yds, 8.9 y/a, 39 td, 4 int, 121.6 rating, 130 rushes, 852 yds, 4 td (Bal is 11-5)
Josh Allen: 307-483 (63.6%), 3,731 yds, 7.7 y/a, 28 td, 6 int, 101.4 rating, 102 rushes, 531 yds, 12 td (Buf is 13-3)
So Jackson has accounted for 4,807 yds and 43 td, while Allen has accounted for 4,262 yds and 40 td. Lamar's passer rating is far superior, he's turned the ball over less, and on a yards-per-play basis, he's been much better than Allen.
I am aware.It’s Most Valuable Player not Most Outstanding Player
Yeah, he lost most of his receiving brigade while at the same time Lamar got Henry to help diffuse the focus on him. Both are having great years but Allen has done way more with considerably less.Have you looked at Allen's receiving corps this year? It's...not very good.
Josh Allen easily IMHO.
Some have underrated Buffalo’s supporting cast despite what those guys have actually put on film. This may have been informed by people not watching them closely and/or an incorrect sentiment that their only weapon for the last 5 years was Stefon Diggs.I think it has to be Jackson having outdone Allen in the major statistical categories. Honestly, I don’t think the supporting cast is of different enough caliber to make that argument. Henry is amazing, but Cook is no slouch and when you take Henry out of the equation the Ravens skill players are pretty ordinary.
It pains me to say it as both a giant fan of Allen and as someone expecting Lamar to hand KC a Super Bowl berth on a silver platter, but the numbers don’t lie. It’s 1) Jackson 2) Allen 3) Barkley for me, but I think you can more easily make a case for Barkley over either QB than you can for Allen over Jackson.
Yup. Cook really leveled up this year, Shakir plays better than his stats (though he was miserable in the Pats game, to be fair), and as critical as I was of Coleman early in the year he’s played well in the second half when healthy. Cooper and Kincaid have been disappointing but obviously there’s talent there. It’s not a world beating group but this isn’t Allen dragging Reche Caldwell to the AFC championship either.Some have underrated Buffalo’s supporting cast despite what those guys have actually put on film. This may have been informed by people not watching them closely and/or an incorrect sentiment that their only weapon for the last 5 years was Stefon Diggs.
Right. The OL - which is seldom discussed in awards debates - is a good, tough group, too.Yup. Cook really leveled up this year, Shakir plays better than his stats (though he was miserable in the Pats game, to be fair), and as critical as I was of Coleman early in the year he’s played well in the second half when healthy. Cooper and Kincaid have been disappointing but obviously there’s talent there. It’s not a world beating group but this isn’t Allen dragging Reche Caldwell to the AFC championship either.
Well Allen may have done with less, but he hasn’t done more than Lamar.Yeah, he lost most of his receiving brigade while at the same time Lamar got Henry to help diffuse the focus on him. Both are having great years but Allen has done way more with considerably less.
Sure, but you can understand why others may still believe that makes Allen more valuable.Well Allen may have done with less, but he hasn’t done more than Lamar.
Totally.Sure, but you can understand why others may still believe that makes Allen more valuable.
Two additions:Allen has been amazing this year. But Lamar's numbers are far better.
Lamar Jackson: 300-442 (67.9%), 3,955 yds, 8.9 y/a, 39 td, 4 int, 121.6 rating, 130 rushes, 852 yds, 4 td (Bal is 11-5)
Josh Allen: 307-483 (63.6%), 3,731 yds, 7.7 y/a, 28 td, 6 int, 101.4 rating, 102 rushes, 531 yds, 12 td (Buf is 13-3)
So Jackson has accounted for 4,807 yds and 43 td, while Allen has accounted for 4,262 yds and 40 td. Lamar's passer rating is far superior, he's turned the ball over less, and on a yards-per-play basis, he's been much better than Allen.
I hear you on Allen. Per your last point on Jackson (last year's KC game), I mean, that's a strike against Lamar. They put the game in his hands and he failed miserably. Yes they should have run more. It was mind-boggling that they didn't. KC was weak against the run, Baltimore was the league's best rushing team, and they barely ran at all. Insane. And yet they were saying, ok Lamar, you're the man, this is on you. And he came up empty.Allen has been really good in the playoffs, particularly the last three. It's not his fault that 13 seconds happened for example. In no way was he a disappointment.
Jackson hasn't been as good but 4 of those games were in his first three seasons when he wasn't as developed of a passer and in one game he got hurt, plus the team strategy of not running the ball last year vs KC was perplexing.
Well, I disagree, but you presented both of their stat lines and I gave context. We don't have a lot of sample size with Lamar in the playoffs and his worst game other than his first two years has an asterisk. It's not like he told Harbaugh he was going to quit if they handed the ball off more than 10 times. He was put in a tough position with a poor gameplan and that has an outsized influence on his overall line.I hear you on Allen. Per your last point on Jackson (last year's KC game), I mean, that's a strike against Lamar. They put the game in his hands and he failed miserably. Yes they should have run more. It was mind-boggling that they didn't. KC was weak against the run, Baltimore was the league's best rushing team, and they barely ran at all. Insane. And yet they were saying, ok Lamar, you're the man, this is on you. And he came up empty.
I brought all this up because snowmanny said, "And all of this is separate from who is the best quarterback, of course." And I thought this was relevant to THAT. But I wasn't really clear about it, so that's on me.Well, I disagree, but you presented both of their stat lines and I gave context. We don't have a lot of sample size with Lamar in the playoffs and his worst game other than his first two years has an asterisk. It's not like he told Harbaugh he was going to quit if they handed the ball off more than 10 times. He was put in a tough position with a poor gameplan and that has an outsized influence on his overall line.
I'm not sure why you even brought up the playoffs since the MVP is not based on playoff performance anyway.
Well, yeah. But the playoffs aren’t part of this equation. And I would say narrative is always part of an MVP discussion, since the award is not named “Outstanding Numbers Award” or “Outstanding Player Award.”Neither guy has really done it in the playoffs.
Allen: 5-5 record, 244-378 (64.5%), 2,723 yds, 7.2 y/a, 21 td, 4 int, 100.0 rating, 83 rushes, 563 yds, 6.8 y/a, 5 td, 2 fumbles lost
* only one AFCCG appearance (lost 38-24 to KC)
* zero Super Bowl appearances
Jackson: 2-4 record, 112-195 (57.4%), 1,324 yds, 6.8 y/a, 6 td, 6 int, 75.7 rating, 73 rushes, 521 yds, 7.1 y/a, 3 td, 3 fumbles lost
* only one AFCCG appearance (lost 17-10 to KC)
* zero Super Bowl appearances
So clearly Allen has been far, far better in the playoffs than Lamar has, but neither guy has even once gotten past the AFCCG, and in 12 combined seasons (not counting this year of course), they've only been to the AFCCG twice. As good as these guys have been, they've been major disappointments in the playoffs.
Keep in mind that Tom Brady once went to eight straight AFCCGs, and Mahomes is currently on a streak of six straight AFCCG appearances.
I know. I was clumsy in communicating this, but I brought this info up in response to you saying, "And all of this is separate from who is the best quarterback, of course." Because playoff performance is part of who is actually the better QB.Well, yeah. But the playoffs aren’t part of this equation. And I would say narrative is always part of an MVP discussion, since the award is not named “Outstanding Numbers Award” or “Outstanding Player Award.”
Yep.As you allude to, I’d take Mahomes over either of these guys for the next month. He took quarters off all season but produced at the end of games and his team ended up 15-1.
Posssible, but also Allen has been the Vegas line favorite for months, may just be someone who wants to bet Allen and Polymarket gets him better return than Vegas.View: https://twitter.com/lanceupperpi/status/1885460568665903522?s=46&t=iVUy6a-RBQ94gq90zGfH6Q
Many of us over at PolyMarket have been investigating, trying to figure out what this guy’s motivation is. Huge value on Lamar if this guy knows nothing. It’s definitely not certain he’s an insider. PolyMarket has a lot of rich fucks who throw money on dumb shit.
Try betting this anywhere other than PolyMarket right now. Allen WAS the favorite…until Lamar won 1st team all pro and all of the sportsbooks took the line down. He subsequently also won PFWA MVP. Lots of voter overlap and extremely strong correlation between those and AP MVP. If it weren’t for this one dude, Lamar’s price in Vegas or anywhere would be north of 90 cents. This one bettor is driving the market. But all things come to an end eventually.Posssible, but also Allen has been the Vegas line favorite for months, may just be someone who wants to bet Allen and Polymarket gets him better return than Vegas.