24/25 Champions League - Now with More Inequality

Kliq

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Great, great game. Got to think Dortmund still have a chance or two in them.
 

rguilmar

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I gotta say, Manchester City look like a mentally weakened team. I haven’t seen them as much this season, but I was pretty surprised at how timid they seemed close to both goals. As someone who generally roots for teams that rarely win titles, Man City look like a team that won’t win anything this season. It’s not a talent thing, it’s that when they missed that first really good chance when Haaland was in on goal (very nice save btw) they really looked scared.
 

bosox4283

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Is this new format playing out as designed? I’m wondering what was the expectation for points to finish top 8. Atlético will likely win its last match, which means they’ll finish between 15-18 points and perhaps finish outside of top 8 with 15 points. I wonder if the thinking was 5 wins would be enough to be top 8.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Makes up for the lack of air vs. the Barca one by also dropping the initial dime over the top to Weah IMO.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Is this new format playing out as designed? I’m wondering what was the expectation for points to finish top 8. Atlético will likely win its last match, which means they’ll finish between 15-18 points and perhaps finish outside of top 8 with 15 points. I wonder if the thinking was 5 wins would be enough to be top 8.
I don’t think I like it. It’s a plus having 8 different opponents so there’s that. But it never feels like you’re in a competition - just random friendlies until the business end. I mean , sure you’re competing with other teams but like as not you aren’t even playing them. And I miss the away goals rule - don’t even have home and away fixtures any more for that matter.
 

rguilmar

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The last time Leverkusen and Atleti matched up in the Champions League was one of the most insane endings ever. Atleti needed a win and Leverkusen needed a draw*, and the referee blew the final whistle with the game tied 2-2. VAR gave a handball in the box and Atleti had a PK to win it. It was saved, the follow up went off the bar, and another follow was going in until it went of Atletico’s Carrasco and out of bounds.

View: https://youtu.be/FKkMa1S1nyY?si=VmTVHS1qgjTkZFto


*I think it was for a Europa League spot. It’s one of the reasons I preferred the old format. There were usually many groups with something to be decided going into that last game (either getting into the knockout stage or getting into the Europa League). There will obviously be a few games with high stakes at the end of the league stage this year, but not nearly as many.
 

swiftaw

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*I think it was for a Europa League spot. It’s one of the reasons I preferred the old format. There were usually many groups with something to be decided going into that last game (either getting into the knockout stage or getting into the Europa League). There will obviously be a few games with high stakes at the end of the league stage this year, but not nearly as many.
I hated that 3rd place teams got parachuted into the Europa, I'm sorry, you sucked, you should be eliminated. I think having all the final day matches running simultaneously will be entertaining, and I think there will be stuff to play for for most teams (either avoiding the playoff round or qualifying at all).
 

67YAZ

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Mo Salah, mo’ goals. Nice assist from Curtis, too.

Edit: that’s Mo’s 50th European goal.

And now Jones is down for treatment.
 
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rguilmar

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I hated that 3rd place teams got parachuted into the Europa, I'm sorry, you sucked, you should be eliminated. I think having all the final day matches running simultaneously will be entertaining, and I think there will be stuff to play for for most teams (either avoiding the playoff round or qualifying at all).
Honestly, I get your point of view on this and to some degree I share it as it relates to the big clubs. But for smaller clubs who make the UCL and overperform a bit by finishing 3rd, it was a nice reward. With 8 games now, I think the new format won’t be as rewarding to the lower level clubs, and that is the idea behind the change. Ensure that the biggest clubs get the most money. I liked it as well for the lower level big league clubs (4th in La Liga, for example) to get some extra cash to use for next year, it was useful. Even as a Betis fan, I thought it was great that Sevilla could qualify for the Champions League and make a run at the Europa League. There were a couple of seasons, one in particular, where they gave Real Madrid a proper challenge. Look at what Leverkusen did the following season after finishing 3rd. That extra $$$ can go a long way.

Again, when it’s Manchester United or Liverpool or Arsenal or Barcelona or Juve or whatever, I don’t care as much. But for the others, it can be pretty great.
 

67YAZ

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Ugh, boys.

Jonathan David should have played for Klopp, would have been a perfect pairing.
 

allstonite

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Darwin looking directly down the line of the Lille defense for a good 5 seconds and doesn’t realize he’s off and should move into an onside position
 

fletcherpost

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Liverpool top the group with a game to spare. Cool. Gives them a chance to rest players. Wasn't a great performance tonight but - job done.

Edit: not done, Barca with an amazing comeback against Benfica.
 

67YAZ

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LFC did secure top-8, so no playoff to advance. That’s some schedule relief

A point at PSV will secure the top spot. PSV are sitting on 11pts through 7 matches, good for 16th today but could be as low as 22nd after tomorrow. They’ll be desperate for a win next week.
 
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SocrManiac

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Darwin looking directly down the line of the Lille defense for a good 5 seconds and doesn’t realize he’s off and should move into an onside position
He’s such an idiot. He scores a sitter and a goal he has to on the weekend, but he’s still a shit #9. There’s no excuse in the world to be offside in that situation. He’s ball watching.
 

SoxFanInCali

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Um, didn't that PSG goal look offside?

EDIT: yeah, they completely ignored that there was a review going on during the broadcast, then suddenly were like, oh, it's disallowed.
 

Silverdude2167

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Timber goes to a knee a few seconds after taking a cross to the head.

Play stops, he gets up walks around and play restarts.

Glad it's not just the NFL that doesn't care about concussions.
 

SoxFanInCali

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Huge goal for Celtic that could get them into the knockout round, but they just went down to 10 men with a couple minutes remaining.
 

SoxFanInCali

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The City collapse is complete, they need a win and help in matchday 8 to advance.

Celtic hold on and have clinched a playoff spot.

Actually, a break for City, they are on 8 points but PSG and Stuttgart both have 10 and play each other next week, so a City win alone will put them through.
 
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67YAZ

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LFC did secure top-8, so no playoff to advance. That’s some schedule relief

A point at PSV will secure the top spot. PSV are sitting on 11pts through 7 matches, good for 16th today but could be as low as 22nd after tomorrow. They’ll be desperate for a win next week.
PSV ends the match day in 17th on 11pts. A draw sees them thru to the knockouts and a point allows Liverpool to top the table. Let’s see how these two sides approach the last match. Could be a snoozefest…
 

Zososoxfan

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Draw for the first knockout has been completed. Good News- at least one of Real Madrid and Manchester City will be out.

View: https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/status/1885290196029014189?s=46&t=XvGOrrWIyL-5CHVVL_0JYQ
Just read up on the draws for the KOs and there's no country protection for the R16 and the 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, and 7/8 teams are also drawn. IOW, Liverpool doesn't automatically get the winner of a specific game nor does Liverpool automatically play the lowest seed to progress. Each club that earned a top 8 bye will be drawn against the winners of 2 matches. e.g., Liverpool and Barca will play 2 of PSG, Brest, Monaco, or Benfica, and there's no country protection.

Just some interesting data to me, of the top 8: 3 EPL (Pool, Arsenal, Villa), 2 La Liga (Barca, Atleti), 1 Germany (Neverlusen), 1 France (Lille!), 1 Italy (Inter).
 

Pesky Pole

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It's crazy that they don't have the winners matched up with the 1-8 seeds in this draw. I guess it's UEFA's way of creating drama for a second draw later. If you're not giving higher ranked teams the lowest seed left, just match them up now. 1 plays 16/17, 2 plays 15/18.
 

thehitcat

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It's crazy that they don't have the winners matched up with the 1-8 seeds in this draw. I guess it's UEFA's way of creating drama for a second draw later. If you're not giving higher ranked teams the lowest seed left, just match them up now. 1 plays 16/17, 2 plays 15/18.
It's the same thing that makes me crazy about the grand slam draws for Tennis. It's never fair and they just keep doing it. I'm not even asking for reseeding I'd just like to see 1 get the lowest seed to make it through the knockouts even if that is Man City.
 

rguilmar

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But an extra draw means an extra television broadcast which means extra ad revenue. UEFA will never turn that down.
 

Pesky Pole

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But an extra draw means an extra television broadcast which means extra ad revenue. UEFA will never turn that down.
I love how they drew half of all the ties today and then came back and drew the other half of the ties. Maybe we can draw them Wheel of Fortune style letter by letter next time.
 

candylandriots

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Just read up on the draws for the KOs and there's no country protection for the R16 and the 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, and 7/8 teams are also drawn. IOW, Liverpool doesn't automatically get the winner of a specific game nor does Liverpool automatically play the lowest seed to progress. Each club that earned a top 8 bye will be drawn against the winners of 2 matches. e.g., Liverpool and Barca will play 2 of PSG, Brest, Monaco, or Benfica, and there's no country protection.

Just some interesting data to me, of the top 8: 3 EPL (Pool, Arsenal, Villa), 2 La Liga (Barca, Atleti), 1 Germany (Neverlusen), 1 France (Lille!), 1 Italy (Inter).
I don't understand then why Brest plays PSG, but Juventus can't play Milan and Feyenoord can't play Eindhoven. That is how the seeding should work, I would think.
 

swiftaw

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I don't understand then why Brest plays PSG, but Juventus can't play Milan and Feyenoord can't play Eindhoven. That is how the seeding should work, I would think.
It is seeded, but in pairs.

so for the playoff round, the 8 seeded pairs are
9/10
11/12
13/14
15/16
17/18
19/20
21/22
23/24

Then top pair plays bottom pair and so on, so
9/10 vs 23/24
11/12 vs 21/22
13/14 vs 19/20
15/16 vs 17/18

They then did a draw to figure out which of each pair played each other.

Juve could’ve played Milan, since they were 13 and 20, but the draw went the other way.
 

candylandriots

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It is seeded, but in pairs.

so for the playoff round, the 8 seeded pairs are
9/10
11/12
13/14
15/16
17/18
19/20
21/22
23/24

Then top pair plays bottom pair and so on, so
9/10 vs 23/24
11/12 vs 21/22
13/14 vs 19/20
15/16 vs 17/18

They then did a draw to figure out which of each pair played each other.

Juve could’ve played Milan, since they were 13 and 20, but the draw went the other way.
Danke!
 

Zososoxfan

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It is seeded, but in pairs.

so for the playoff round, the 8 seeded pairs are
9/10
11/12
13/14
15/16
17/18
19/20
21/22
23/24

Then top pair plays bottom pair and so on, so
9/10 vs 23/24
11/12 vs 21/22
13/14 vs 19/20
15/16 vs 17/18

They then did a draw to figure out which of each pair played each other.

Juve could’ve played Milan, since they were 13 and 20, but the draw went the other way.
I'd watch Juve-Milan Home and home for UCL KOs! What I mean by that is, while I'm still not sure how I feel about the new format, this playoff round of the KOs should be pretty exciting. We know through results that these teams are all at least resilient to very good/contenders. Other than Feyenoord, no KO team has conceded more than 14. And Feyenoord seem to employ a 'we score more than them' approach too, as they tallied 18 goals for in the Swiss phase. At the top end of the playoff, Atalanta, Dortmund, Real Madrid, and Bayern all had very strong GD and were 1 measly point from earning a top 8 spot.

Other quick notes re the Swiss phase--Barca scored a whopping 28(!) goals across the 8 games, the next highest was Dortmund with 22. Inter only conceded once (!), Arsenal only 3, Liverpool only 5. Based on GD, Liverpool, Barca, and Arsenal were deserving of their top 3 finishes, and Atalanta was quite unlucky to finish 9th. Dortmund also finished lower than their GD suggests they should've.

Bratislava and Young Boys were fish outta water, and didn't register any points.

The cutoff for top 8 was 16 points, and no club lost more than twice, or drew more than once. The cutoff to make the playoff round was 11.5 points, as GNK Dinamo (f/k/a Zagreb??) had 11 points, but lost the tiebreaker to Brugge, Sporting, and MANC. No team that qualified lost more than 3x, or drew more than 3x. No team drew OR lost more than 5x.

My thoughts: Much like the old format, the only time I truly tune in are the final two fixtures. There's just too much unknown and it's a jumbled mess that I can't make sense of early on. I don't hate the format though. I expect the big clubs will take note that it takes 5 wins to earn a bye, and will treat the first 6 matches more aggressively to earn qualification and be able to rotate a bit more in the last couple of matches. Although I suspect that will always be a bit more ad hoc. i.e., if your squad suffers some injuries early on, perhaps you just have to weather the storm and then play best XIs down the stretch.

What are your takeaways from this round, from an enjoyment perspective and a strategy perspective?