Great documentary. It would have been nice if Spike wasn't being so coy about what he actually said to Reggie. I don't see what good it does anyone anymore not fully disclosing what was said. Everyone else did.
30 for 30
- Thread starter CJM
- Start date
QUOTE (templeUsox @ Mar 15 2010, 12:56 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2850447
Great documentary. It would have been nice if Spike wasn't being so coy about what he actually said to Reggie. I don't see what good it does anyone anymore not fully disclosing what was said. Everyone else did.
Spike is such a baby "ooh ooh he grabbed his nuts in front of my wife". Spike's yapping may not have been the reason the Knicks lost, but he's a big part of why the rest of the country was so happy the Knicks lost.
I don't know about all the villain/black hat stuff...I always loved Reggie Miller.
Great documentary. It would have been nice if Spike wasn't being so coy about what he actually said to Reggie. I don't see what good it does anyone anymore not fully disclosing what was said. Everyone else did.
Spike is such a baby "ooh ooh he grabbed his nuts in front of my wife". Spike's yapping may not have been the reason the Knicks lost, but he's a big part of why the rest of the country was so happy the Knicks lost.
I don't know about all the villain/black hat stuff...I always loved Reggie Miller.
The only thing I thought was odd was the total lack of mention of the 2000 East Finals, when Reggie had another huge fourth quarter in the Garden in Game 6 to finally advance to the Finals.
QUOTE (MoGator71 @ Mar 15 2010, 08:21 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2850523
Spike is such a baby "ooh ooh he grabbed his nuts in front of my wife". Spike's yapping may not have been the reason the Knicks lost, but he's a big part of why the rest of the country was so happy the Knicks lost.
Nice to see he's still rockin' the race card in situations where it's completely irrelevant. That "I'm staying at the Governor's mansion in the slave quarters" line when he got off the plane in Indy back in '94 was ridiculous enough. For this film, 15 years later, he had to pull out the "Indiana is the birthplace of the Klan! I thought all those mean white-hooded fans might lynch me!" zinger.
Or maybe that's the way all black filmmakers react when they and their team are getting their asses handed to them by a black athlete.
Spike is such a baby "ooh ooh he grabbed his nuts in front of my wife". Spike's yapping may not have been the reason the Knicks lost, but he's a big part of why the rest of the country was so happy the Knicks lost.
Nice to see he's still rockin' the race card in situations where it's completely irrelevant. That "I'm staying at the Governor's mansion in the slave quarters" line when he got off the plane in Indy back in '94 was ridiculous enough. For this film, 15 years later, he had to pull out the "Indiana is the birthplace of the Klan! I thought all those mean white-hooded fans might lynch me!" zinger.
Or maybe that's the way all black filmmakers react when they and their team are getting their asses handed to them by a black athlete.
QUOTE (mabrowndog @ Mar 15 2010, 07:22 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2850606
Nice to see he's still rockin' the race card in situations where it's completely irrelevant. That "I'm staying at the Governor's mansion in the slave quarters" line when he got off the plane in Indy back in '94 was ridiculous enough. For this film, 15 years later, he had to pull out the "Indiana is the birthplace of the Klan! I thought all those mean white-hooded fans might lynch me!" zinger.
Or maybe that's the way all black filmmakers react when they and their team are getting their asses handed to them by a black athlete.
This is the same guy who said he felt "uncomfortable" watching Hoosiers because it was blatantly "racist and ignorant" watching an all white team beat an Oscar Robertson led Crispus Attucks High in the Indiana state championship.
Nice to see he's still rockin' the race card in situations where it's completely irrelevant. That "I'm staying at the Governor's mansion in the slave quarters" line when he got off the plane in Indy back in '94 was ridiculous enough. For this film, 15 years later, he had to pull out the "Indiana is the birthplace of the Klan! I thought all those mean white-hooded fans might lynch me!" zinger.
Or maybe that's the way all black filmmakers react when they and their team are getting their asses handed to them by a black athlete.
This is the same guy who said he felt "uncomfortable" watching Hoosiers because it was blatantly "racist and ignorant" watching an all white team beat an Oscar Robertson led Crispus Attucks High in the Indiana state championship.
QUOTE (mabrowndog @ Mar 15 2010, 10:22 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2850606
Nice to see he's still rockin' the race card in situations where it's completely irrelevant. That "I'm staying at the Governor's mansion in the slave quarters" line when he got off the plane in Indy back in '94 was ridiculous enough. For this film, 15 years later, he had to pull out the "Indiana is the birthplace of the Klan! I thought all those mean white-hooded fans might lynch me!" zinger.
Or maybe that's the way all black filmmakers react when they and their team are getting their asses handed to them by a black athlete.
Was the race card really "completely irrelevant"? Did you see the crowd sign showing Lee with a noose around his neck? I thought the handling of race was particularly unsatisfactory in the episode. Nobody but Spike Lee mentions race (and, of course, he mentions it in exactly the hyperbolic way that alienates so many people), while the film images and editing certainly suggest race is certainly an issue. They manage to handle the Damon Bailey v. Reggie Miller thing without considering race, they talk up Indiana and "real America" v. New York city without ever mentioning race.
It seemed like an episode afraid to consider race explicitly, yet aware that race was an issue it didn't know how to handle. So it let Spike speak and discredit the topic.
Anyway, I liked the episode overall. I thought the jump cuts of all the talking heads saying the exact same thing in the exact same words was funny. I'd love to have miked audio of the exchanges between Starks and Miller.
Nice to see he's still rockin' the race card in situations where it's completely irrelevant. That "I'm staying at the Governor's mansion in the slave quarters" line when he got off the plane in Indy back in '94 was ridiculous enough. For this film, 15 years later, he had to pull out the "Indiana is the birthplace of the Klan! I thought all those mean white-hooded fans might lynch me!" zinger.
Or maybe that's the way all black filmmakers react when they and their team are getting their asses handed to them by a black athlete.
Was the race card really "completely irrelevant"? Did you see the crowd sign showing Lee with a noose around his neck? I thought the handling of race was particularly unsatisfactory in the episode. Nobody but Spike Lee mentions race (and, of course, he mentions it in exactly the hyperbolic way that alienates so many people), while the film images and editing certainly suggest race is certainly an issue. They manage to handle the Damon Bailey v. Reggie Miller thing without considering race, they talk up Indiana and "real America" v. New York city without ever mentioning race.
It seemed like an episode afraid to consider race explicitly, yet aware that race was an issue it didn't know how to handle. So it let Spike speak and discredit the topic.
Anyway, I liked the episode overall. I thought the jump cuts of all the talking heads saying the exact same thing in the exact same words was funny. I'd love to have miked audio of the exchanges between Starks and Miller.
QUOTE (BannedbyNYYFans.com @ Mar 15 2010, 03:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2850991
This is the same guy who said he felt "uncomfortable" watching Hoosiers because it was blatantly "racist and ignorant" watching an all white team beat an Oscar Robertson led Crispus Attucks High in the Indiana state championship.
Wow. I didn't know so many people loathed Spike so much. I have the doc ready to watch tonight, so maybe he didn't really do himself any favors here, I admit.
He puts his foot in his mouth a lot, but what you're referencing here isn't a good example of that. I've heard him talk about "Hoosiers" a lot of times, and I think it's taken to be a lot less theoretical than he intends.
Without dragging the debate up too much, I think his point is that the classical Hollywood narrative of squeaky clean white kids overcoming the odds and beating the huge, hulking monsters of CAHS is both a tiny bit disingenuous and, well, probably kind of uncomfortable to watch for him. The way the "bad guy" is classified in sports movies is always interesting, as an aside. Think of Major League- the Yankees are implicitly whatever the hero team- the Indians- are not: down to earth, not-corporate, working class, underdog, etc. We recognize it more easily because the Yankees are baseball shorthand for that- it's why they're the bad guy so often. Sports movies cast the team we're supposed to dislike automatically in the opposite light of whatever the "good guys" are cast in- we're conditioned to like the good guys through Acts 1 and 2 for specific reasons, and they end up being the exact reasons NOT to like the final foe, so to speak. In the case of "Hoosiers," it's a valid subtext for discussion. Race is a major, major part of American film. He's an important part of that.
He's a pretty angry guy, and I find myself disagreeing with him often (he was wrong in his "fights" with Tarantino and Eastwood, I think)- but he's also passionate and, people forget- really a brilliant guy when discussing his profession.
This is the same guy who said he felt "uncomfortable" watching Hoosiers because it was blatantly "racist and ignorant" watching an all white team beat an Oscar Robertson led Crispus Attucks High in the Indiana state championship.
Wow. I didn't know so many people loathed Spike so much. I have the doc ready to watch tonight, so maybe he didn't really do himself any favors here, I admit.
He puts his foot in his mouth a lot, but what you're referencing here isn't a good example of that. I've heard him talk about "Hoosiers" a lot of times, and I think it's taken to be a lot less theoretical than he intends.
Without dragging the debate up too much, I think his point is that the classical Hollywood narrative of squeaky clean white kids overcoming the odds and beating the huge, hulking monsters of CAHS is both a tiny bit disingenuous and, well, probably kind of uncomfortable to watch for him. The way the "bad guy" is classified in sports movies is always interesting, as an aside. Think of Major League- the Yankees are implicitly whatever the hero team- the Indians- are not: down to earth, not-corporate, working class, underdog, etc. We recognize it more easily because the Yankees are baseball shorthand for that- it's why they're the bad guy so often. Sports movies cast the team we're supposed to dislike automatically in the opposite light of whatever the "good guys" are cast in- we're conditioned to like the good guys through Acts 1 and 2 for specific reasons, and they end up being the exact reasons NOT to like the final foe, so to speak. In the case of "Hoosiers," it's a valid subtext for discussion. Race is a major, major part of American film. He's an important part of that.
He's a pretty angry guy, and I find myself disagreeing with him often (he was wrong in his "fights" with Tarantino and Eastwood, I think)- but he's also passionate and, people forget- really a brilliant guy when discussing his profession.
QUOTE (JohntheBaptist @ Mar 15 2010, 01:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2851011
Wow. I didn't know so many people loathed Spike so much. I have the doc ready to watch tonight, so maybe he didn't really do himself any favors here, I admit.
He puts his foot in his mouth a lot, but what you're referencing here isn't a good example of that. I've heard him talk about "Hoosiers" a lot of times, and I think it's taken to be a lot less theoretical than he intends.
Without dragging the debate up too much, I think his point is that the classical Hollywood narrative of squeaky clean white kids overcoming the odds and beating the huge, hulking monsters of CAHS is both a tiny bit disingenuous and, well, probably kind of uncomfortable to watch for him. The way the "bad guy" is classified in sports movies is always interesting, as an aside. Think of Major League- the Yankees are implicitly whatever the hero team- the Indians- are not: down to earth, not-corporate, working class, underdog, etc. We recognize it more easily because the Yankees are baseball shorthand for that- it's why they're the bad guy so often. Sports movies cast the team we're supposed to dislike automatically in the opposite light of whatever the "good guys" are cast in- we're conditioned to like the good guys through Acts 1 and 2 for specific reasons, and they end up being the exact reasons NOT to like the final foe, so to speak. In the case of "Hoosiers," it's a valid subtext for discussion. Race is a major, major part of American film. He's an important part of that.
He's a pretty angry guy, and I find myself disagreeing with him often (he was wrong in his "fights" with Tarantino and Eastwood, I think)- but he's also passionate and, people forget- really a brilliant guy when discussing his profession.
I do loathe him. I interviewed him for a paper back in college and the guy was a major ass. Pompous, condescending and obnoxious. I do see your point about Hollywood, however I totally disagree with your assessment of that film fitting into that particular genre. Attucks High wasn't portrayed as the "bad guys", just the more talented guys - which they obviously were. In fact, two of the other teams that Milan (Hickory) plays got the "bad guy/thug team" rap, not Oscar Robertson's team. And more importantly, the movie was based on fact. A group of white hillbillies beat the much bigger (and blacker) school from the city. If Lee wants to mock Rocky II thru Rocky V about the White Engine That Could, I'm right there with him. But I think he is being overly sensitive and is flat wrong about Hoosiers.
By the way, to prove he can be a little oversensitive and obnoxious, he let me know right away at the start of the interview (it was in 1992) that I was lucky to be sitting with him because he normally didn't "do interviews for white colleges"...I went to Fordham, which is Catholic and shamefully, primarily white.
Wow. I didn't know so many people loathed Spike so much. I have the doc ready to watch tonight, so maybe he didn't really do himself any favors here, I admit.
He puts his foot in his mouth a lot, but what you're referencing here isn't a good example of that. I've heard him talk about "Hoosiers" a lot of times, and I think it's taken to be a lot less theoretical than he intends.
Without dragging the debate up too much, I think his point is that the classical Hollywood narrative of squeaky clean white kids overcoming the odds and beating the huge, hulking monsters of CAHS is both a tiny bit disingenuous and, well, probably kind of uncomfortable to watch for him. The way the "bad guy" is classified in sports movies is always interesting, as an aside. Think of Major League- the Yankees are implicitly whatever the hero team- the Indians- are not: down to earth, not-corporate, working class, underdog, etc. We recognize it more easily because the Yankees are baseball shorthand for that- it's why they're the bad guy so often. Sports movies cast the team we're supposed to dislike automatically in the opposite light of whatever the "good guys" are cast in- we're conditioned to like the good guys through Acts 1 and 2 for specific reasons, and they end up being the exact reasons NOT to like the final foe, so to speak. In the case of "Hoosiers," it's a valid subtext for discussion. Race is a major, major part of American film. He's an important part of that.
He's a pretty angry guy, and I find myself disagreeing with him often (he was wrong in his "fights" with Tarantino and Eastwood, I think)- but he's also passionate and, people forget- really a brilliant guy when discussing his profession.
I do loathe him. I interviewed him for a paper back in college and the guy was a major ass. Pompous, condescending and obnoxious. I do see your point about Hollywood, however I totally disagree with your assessment of that film fitting into that particular genre. Attucks High wasn't portrayed as the "bad guys", just the more talented guys - which they obviously were. In fact, two of the other teams that Milan (Hickory) plays got the "bad guy/thug team" rap, not Oscar Robertson's team. And more importantly, the movie was based on fact. A group of white hillbillies beat the much bigger (and blacker) school from the city. If Lee wants to mock Rocky II thru Rocky V about the White Engine That Could, I'm right there with him. But I think he is being overly sensitive and is flat wrong about Hoosiers.
By the way, to prove he can be a little oversensitive and obnoxious, he let me know right away at the start of the interview (it was in 1992) that I was lucky to be sitting with him because he normally didn't "do interviews for white colleges"...I went to Fordham, which is Catholic and shamefully, primarily white.
Banned- great post. I didn't mean to suggest he was right, it just seemed you didn't think it was even worth mentioning, which you definitely weren't. We disagree, but I think it's at least an interesting thought.
That sucks Spike was so dismissive. Especially to a fellow Ram
That sucks Spike was so dismissive. Especially to a fellow Ram
QUOTE (Buffalo Head @ Mar 15 2010, 08:56 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2850542
The only thing I thought was odd was the total lack of mention of the 2000 East Finals, when Reggie had another huge fourth quarter in the Garden in Game 6 to finally advance to the Finals.
I also thought it was interesting that they didn't move beyond '95. Not sure when the documentary was made, but Donnie Walsh becoming a Knick should have been mentioned.
The only thing I thought was odd was the total lack of mention of the 2000 East Finals, when Reggie had another huge fourth quarter in the Garden in Game 6 to finally advance to the Finals.
I also thought it was interesting that they didn't move beyond '95. Not sure when the documentary was made, but Donnie Walsh becoming a Knick should have been mentioned.
QUOTE (FungosWithJimy @ Mar 15 2010, 08:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2851313
I also thought it was interesting that they didn't move beyond '95. Not sure when the documentary was made, but Donnie Walsh becoming a Knick should have been mentioned.
And in case I missed it they probably should have mentioned that he grew up in the frickin Bronx.
I also thought it was interesting that they didn't move beyond '95. Not sure when the documentary was made, but Donnie Walsh becoming a Knick should have been mentioned.
And in case I missed it they probably should have mentioned that he grew up in the frickin Bronx.
Bump for the show tonight.
They've been pimping it enough, but the show about Ricky Williams looks really interesting.
I'm young (25), but I haven't seen a back have the perfect combination of speed, grace, and power like Williams did in 2002. I still remember him breaking a run vs Buffalo in the snow, he looked like a horse galloping into the end zone.
They've been pimping it enough, but the show about Ricky Williams looks really interesting.
I'm young (25), but I haven't seen a back have the perfect combination of speed, grace, and power like Williams did in 2002. I still remember him breaking a run vs Buffalo in the snow, he looked like a horse galloping into the end zone.
QUOTE (ZompFoShomp @ Apr 27 2010, 06:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2930761
Bump for the show tonight.
They've been pimping it enough, but the show about Ricky Williams looks really interesting.
I'm young (25), but I haven't seen a back have the perfect combination of speed, grace, and power like Williams did in 2002. I still remember him breaking a run vs Buffalo in the snow, he looked like a horse galloping into the end zone.
At first, I didn't like the rough feel of tonight's documentary, but thinking about it I don't think it could have been done any other way. The footage they captured in rural locations had to be handheld and primitive, and five years ago they didn't know how the story would play out. I've always thought Ricky's story is fascinating just because it bucked convention, but didn't know much about it. I thought they did a really good job of telling the story, and I think Ricky comes off very well. A good one.
Bump for the show tonight.
They've been pimping it enough, but the show about Ricky Williams looks really interesting.
I'm young (25), but I haven't seen a back have the perfect combination of speed, grace, and power like Williams did in 2002. I still remember him breaking a run vs Buffalo in the snow, he looked like a horse galloping into the end zone.
At first, I didn't like the rough feel of tonight's documentary, but thinking about it I don't think it could have been done any other way. The footage they captured in rural locations had to be handheld and primitive, and five years ago they didn't know how the story would play out. I've always thought Ricky's story is fascinating just because it bucked convention, but didn't know much about it. I thought they did a really good job of telling the story, and I think Ricky comes off very well. A good one.
Ron Shelton has one coming up "Jordan rides the bus" about Michael Jordan's stint in AA with the Birmingham Barons. As everybody knows, Tito was his manager. I'm curious to see how much Francona is involved in the piece. He told Dale and Holley a great story a while back about MJ. Aparently they were playing pick up 2 on 2 basketball one day and Tito and Michael were on the same team. The score was tied (sounds like Jordan was just fucking around in the early part of the game and I think they spotted the other team a bunch of points) and Terry took a jumper and missed with an air ball. The other team grabbed the rebound and put it in for the win. Jordan yelled, "What the fuck! I TAKE THE LAST SHOT!" and walked away furious. Francona said he also remebered MJ breaking tables and other things whenever he lost at anything. Said he was by far and away the most determined, focused, competitive guy he ever met. Francona also thought that if Jordan continued to play baseball, he would have eventually made the Majors.
QUOTE (Paradigm @ Apr 27 2010, 09:20 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2931572
At first, I didn't like the rough feel of tonight's documentary, but thinking about it I don't think it could have been done any other way. The footage they captured in rural locations had to be handheld and primitive, and five years ago they didn't know how the story would play out. I've always thought Ricky's story is fascinating just because it bucked convention, but didn't know much about it. I thought they did a really good job of telling the story, and I think Ricky comes off very well. A good one.
Last night's on Ricky Williams was awesome. It was interesting to see reporters like LeBatard and friends go back and forth with their own opinions of whether he's actually crazy, or just more sane than the rest of us. There were scenes shot in Australia and some rural house he leased somewhere in the middle of nowhere, discussing metaphysical concepts where he sounded, looked and cadenced like Jim Morrison.
At first, I didn't like the rough feel of tonight's documentary, but thinking about it I don't think it could have been done any other way. The footage they captured in rural locations had to be handheld and primitive, and five years ago they didn't know how the story would play out. I've always thought Ricky's story is fascinating just because it bucked convention, but didn't know much about it. I thought they did a really good job of telling the story, and I think Ricky comes off very well. A good one.
Last night's on Ricky Williams was awesome. It was interesting to see reporters like LeBatard and friends go back and forth with their own opinions of whether he's actually crazy, or just more sane than the rest of us. There were scenes shot in Australia and some rural house he leased somewhere in the middle of nowhere, discussing metaphysical concepts where he sounded, looked and cadenced like Jim Morrison.
QUOTE (BannedbyNYYFans.com @ Apr 28 2010, 12:40 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2932327
Ron Shelton has one coming up "Jordan rides the bus" about Michael Jordan's stint in AA with the Birmingham Barons. As everybody knows, Tito was his manager. I'm curious to see how much Francona is involved in the piece. He told Dale and Holley a great story a while back about MJ. Aparently they were playing pick up 2 on 2 basketball one day and Tito and Michael were on the same team. The score was tied (sounds like Jordan was just fucking around in the early part of the game and I think they spotted the other team a bunch of points) and Terry took a jumper and missed with an air ball. The other team grabbed the rebound and put it in for the win. Jordan yelled, "What the fuck! I TAKE THE LAST SHOT!" and walked away furious. Francona said he also remebered MJ breaking tables and other things whenever he lost at anything. Said he was by far and away the most determined, focused, competitive guy he ever met. Francona also thought that if Jordan continued to play baseball, he would have eventually made the Majors.
I've heard this, or a similar story, too. The version I heard has Tito responding to MJ's "I take the last shot" with, "Now you know what I feel like watching you try to hit a curveball!"
Ron Shelton has one coming up "Jordan rides the bus" about Michael Jordan's stint in AA with the Birmingham Barons. As everybody knows, Tito was his manager. I'm curious to see how much Francona is involved in the piece. He told Dale and Holley a great story a while back about MJ. Aparently they were playing pick up 2 on 2 basketball one day and Tito and Michael were on the same team. The score was tied (sounds like Jordan was just fucking around in the early part of the game and I think they spotted the other team a bunch of points) and Terry took a jumper and missed with an air ball. The other team grabbed the rebound and put it in for the win. Jordan yelled, "What the fuck! I TAKE THE LAST SHOT!" and walked away furious. Francona said he also remebered MJ breaking tables and other things whenever he lost at anything. Said he was by far and away the most determined, focused, competitive guy he ever met. Francona also thought that if Jordan continued to play baseball, he would have eventually made the Majors.
I've heard this, or a similar story, too. The version I heard has Tito responding to MJ's "I take the last shot" with, "Now you know what I feel like watching you try to hit a curveball!"
I just watched the re-airing of Silly Little Game, about the founders of the first Rotisserie baseball league, and it was tremendous.
The line of the hour came right at the end. More than 30 years after playing that first-ever season, Dan Okrent, whose brainchild the whole thing was in the first place, has never won a rotisserie or fantasy league title.
"That'd be like Hugh Hefner never getting laid."
The line of the hour came right at the end. More than 30 years after playing that first-ever season, Dan Okrent, whose brainchild the whole thing was in the first place, has never won a rotisserie or fantasy league title.
"That'd be like Hugh Hefner never getting laid."
QUOTE (mabrowndog @ Apr 29 2010, 06:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2935825
I just watched the re-airing of Silly Little Game, about the founders of the first Rotisserie baseball league, and it was tremendous.
The line of the hour came right at the end. More than 30 years after playing that first-ever season, Dan Okrent, whose brainchild the whole thing was in the first place, has never won a rotisserie or fantasy league title.
"That'd be ike Hugh Hefner never getting laid."
That was a great quote. I enjoyed the piece too. Great personalities, great story. The only thing that kept bothering me was the director's use of the people playing the young versions of the original members during those recreations. It just seemed really odd.
Another great remark was when they had a convention and people paid to come and meet the founders of rotisserie baseball. Okrent described the patrons as two types, "People who were kind of nerdy - loners who didn't seem like that had a lot of social life. And people who were very, very nerdy who clearly had no social life - ambulatory schizophrenics I think".
And I'm probably going to sound very stupid, but I had no idea that Okrent invented WHIP and that it originally came about because of fantasy baseball.
I just watched the re-airing of Silly Little Game, about the founders of the first Rotisserie baseball league, and it was tremendous.
The line of the hour came right at the end. More than 30 years after playing that first-ever season, Dan Okrent, whose brainchild the whole thing was in the first place, has never won a rotisserie or fantasy league title.
"That'd be ike Hugh Hefner never getting laid."
That was a great quote. I enjoyed the piece too. Great personalities, great story. The only thing that kept bothering me was the director's use of the people playing the young versions of the original members during those recreations. It just seemed really odd.
Another great remark was when they had a convention and people paid to come and meet the founders of rotisserie baseball. Okrent described the patrons as two types, "People who were kind of nerdy - loners who didn't seem like that had a lot of social life. And people who were very, very nerdy who clearly had no social life - ambulatory schizophrenics I think".
And I'm probably going to sound very stupid, but I had no idea that Okrent invented WHIP and that it originally came about because of fantasy baseball.
QUOTE (mabrowndog @ Apr 29 2010, 09:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2935825
I just watched the re-airing of Silly Little Game, about the founders of the first Rotisserie baseball league, and it was tremendous.
The line of the hour came right at the end. More than 30 years after playing that first-ever season, Dan Okrent, whose brainchild the whole thing was in the first place, has never won a rotisserie or fantasy league title.
"That'd be like Hugh Hefner never getting laid."
Agreed! At first I was turned off by the cutaways and the exaggerated flashbacks, so I paused it after ten minutes. Then, a fellow member of my obsessive fantasy league came over a few days later and we watched it together, and it was great. That the managers were all writers gave the entire film a fantastic narration and made the whole thing sound smart. They were all witty and self-deprecating, it was great.
I particularly liked "Okrent's Law" which was along the lines of "there's nothing more interesting than your own fantasy team, and nothing less interesting than someone else's."
I just watched the re-airing of Silly Little Game, about the founders of the first Rotisserie baseball league, and it was tremendous.
The line of the hour came right at the end. More than 30 years after playing that first-ever season, Dan Okrent, whose brainchild the whole thing was in the first place, has never won a rotisserie or fantasy league title.
"That'd be like Hugh Hefner never getting laid."
Agreed! At first I was turned off by the cutaways and the exaggerated flashbacks, so I paused it after ten minutes. Then, a fellow member of my obsessive fantasy league came over a few days later and we watched it together, and it was great. That the managers were all writers gave the entire film a fantastic narration and made the whole thing sound smart. They were all witty and self-deprecating, it was great.
I particularly liked "Okrent's Law" which was along the lines of "there's nothing more interesting than your own fantasy team, and nothing less interesting than someone else's."
Bump for a reminder. New episode tonight following Yankees - Phillies game on ESPN. "June 17, 1994".
"Arnold Palmer plays his last round at U.S. Open, the FIFA World Cup kicks off in Chicago, the Rangers celebrate on Broadway, O.J. Simpson leads American on a slow speed chase while in a white Ford Bronco".
"Arnold Palmer plays his last round at U.S. Open, the FIFA World Cup kicks off in Chicago, the Rangers celebrate on Broadway, O.J. Simpson leads American on a slow speed chase while in a white Ford Bronco".
I was @ the M's-Royals game they showed the highlight of - Griffey hit one deep into the right field fountain. By the time we got back to our hotel in KC, the OJ thing was either just about over or completely over. We didn't know anything about it.
QUOTE (Sille Skrub @ Jun 17 2010, 12:02 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3028111
Great 30 for 30 tonight. Very riveting.
Fantastic editing. I hadn't heard some of the dialogue before between OJ and the police during the chase. I remember being in a bowling alley in Cuba that day and everyone just silently stared at the TVs. I forgot how packed the overpasses were with people just getting out of their cars to watch. Crazy.
Great 30 for 30 tonight. Very riveting.
Fantastic editing. I hadn't heard some of the dialogue before between OJ and the police during the chase. I remember being in a bowling alley in Cuba that day and everyone just silently stared at the TVs. I forgot how packed the overpasses were with people just getting out of their cars to watch. Crazy.
Fantastic episode. I found myself just wanting to watch the OJ stuff though. The Arnold Palmer/Rangers parade/Ken Griffey interludes just seemed to get in the way. But I guess it shows just how many things in so many sports were actually going on that day. The NBA finals part was pretty interesting just to see how Costas and Brokaw had to deal with the combination of events.
After watching that, and knowing all the evidence that came out in the trial, it really is so shocking he was found not guilty (at least in criminal court).
After watching that, and knowing all the evidence that came out in the trial, it really is so shocking he was found not guilty (at least in criminal court).
The slow Bronco chase was probably the most surreal event we will ever see in our lifetime. The mixture of a possible celebrity suicide combined with the anti-police sentiment and the crowds on the freeway cheering him on....just crazy. I had forgotten what it felt like to watch that. LA is just so massive and to have that happen all over the metroplex was just amazing.
Sidenote....OJ sat down next to me at a Dave & Buster's bar in 2001 in Miami....just a crazy experience. His girlfriend was a bartender there and she looked exactly like Nicole.
Sidenote....OJ sat down next to me at a Dave & Buster's bar in 2001 in Miami....just a crazy experience. His girlfriend was a bartender there and she looked exactly like Nicole.
That was amazing stuff. So well put together and the lack of a narrator and showing some of the non broadcast stuff from Costas was great.
I was a little surprised at all the Arnold Palmer coverage until they showed the OJ/Arnold Hertz commercial at the end. I had forgotten all about that.
Award winning work.
I was a little surprised at all the Arnold Palmer coverage until they showed the OJ/Arnold Hertz commercial at the end. I had forgotten all about that.
Award winning work.
QUOTE (radsoxfan @ Jun 17 2010, 07:33 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3028195
The Arnold Palmer/Rangers parade/Ken Griffey interludes just seemed to get in the way.
I agree about the Griffey part, I didn't really see the need for it. Or it could have used a little more explaining otherwise. Seemed quite random, just thrown in there as if he hit another HR in a game that meant nothing.
The Rangers parade seemed out of place in the beginning, but definitely had meaning the deeper into the documentary as it built up the state of frenzy in the Garden crowd that night. So while the OJ chase was going on, with the announcers attempting to be subdued with the potential suicide, the MSG crowd was going nuts, built up by the Rangers Cup win and parade earlier in the day coupled with the Knicks winning game 5.
As for Palmer, there is definite merit. The sports headlines heading into the day were Palmer's final Open round, Knicks/Rockets game 5 and the World Cup opening in the US. So early that afternoon, the focus would be on Palmer. The story of the day went from one famous athlete to another, neither going out the way anybody could have seen (Palmer's awful round & the OJ chase). The commercial to finalize it really punched that idea home.
I was amazed at how good this was. I was on my edge of my seat, even knowing how everything turned out. The phone calls from the police to OJ were incredible, really added to the emotions throughout.
The Arnold Palmer/Rangers parade/Ken Griffey interludes just seemed to get in the way.
I agree about the Griffey part, I didn't really see the need for it. Or it could have used a little more explaining otherwise. Seemed quite random, just thrown in there as if he hit another HR in a game that meant nothing.
The Rangers parade seemed out of place in the beginning, but definitely had meaning the deeper into the documentary as it built up the state of frenzy in the Garden crowd that night. So while the OJ chase was going on, with the announcers attempting to be subdued with the potential suicide, the MSG crowd was going nuts, built up by the Rangers Cup win and parade earlier in the day coupled with the Knicks winning game 5.
As for Palmer, there is definite merit. The sports headlines heading into the day were Palmer's final Open round, Knicks/Rockets game 5 and the World Cup opening in the US. So early that afternoon, the focus would be on Palmer. The story of the day went from one famous athlete to another, neither going out the way anybody could have seen (Palmer's awful round & the OJ chase). The commercial to finalize it really punched that idea home.
I was amazed at how good this was. I was on my edge of my seat, even knowing how everything turned out. The phone calls from the police to OJ were incredible, really added to the emotions throughout.
QUOTE (PayrodsFirstClutchHit @ Jun 17 2010, 11:59 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3028595
That was amazing stuff. So well put together and the lack of a narrator and showing some of the non broadcast stuff from Costas was great.
I was a little surprised at all the Arnold Palmer coverage until they showed the OJ/Arnold Hertz commercial at the end. I had forgotten all about that.
Award winning work.
anyone who enjoyed last night's 30 for 30 should check out Brett Morgen's features, especially Chicago 10 (doc on the 1968 DNC riots and subsequent conspiracy trial.) Similar style and editing, lack of talking heads. Criminally underrated. Take last nights amazing, unbelievable unearthed archival footage and multiply by a thousand.
That was amazing stuff. So well put together and the lack of a narrator and showing some of the non broadcast stuff from Costas was great.
I was a little surprised at all the Arnold Palmer coverage until they showed the OJ/Arnold Hertz commercial at the end. I had forgotten all about that.
Award winning work.
anyone who enjoyed last night's 30 for 30 should check out Brett Morgen's features, especially Chicago 10 (doc on the 1968 DNC riots and subsequent conspiracy trial.) Similar style and editing, lack of talking heads. Criminally underrated. Take last nights amazing, unbelievable unearthed archival footage and multiply by a thousand.
I think my favorite phony phone call came from the Bronco chase. Peter Jennings talking to a guy from New York who said he was across the street from OJ's house. He was saying OJ "He look scared." And then Al Michaels having to tell Jennings that it was a total farcical call.
QUOTE (Dan Murfman @ Jun 17 2010, 09:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3029083
I think my favorite phony phone call came from the Bronco chase. Peter Jennings talking to a guy from New York who said he was across the street from OJ's house. He was saying OJ "He look scared." And then Al Michaels having to tell Jennings that it was a total farcical call.
Janks, wasn't it?
I think my favorite phony phone call came from the Bronco chase. Peter Jennings talking to a guy from New York who said he was across the street from OJ's house. He was saying OJ "He look scared." And then Al Michaels having to tell Jennings that it was a total farcical call.
Janks, wasn't it?
QUOTE (Dan Murfman @ Jun 17 2010, 04:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3029083
I think my favorite phony phone call came from the Bronco chase.
It is the greatest phony phone call of all time.
The only thing that prevents this documentary from being perfect is its omission.
I think my favorite phony phone call came from the Bronco chase.
It is the greatest phony phone call of all time.
The only thing that prevents this documentary from being perfect is its omission.
QUOTE (Spacemans Bong @ Jun 17 2010, 09:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3029824
Janks, wasn't it?
It wasn't Janks. It was some guy from NYC. He was on the show explaining why he made the call. He was a Knick fan and he was getting annoyed that they were preempting the Knick championship game to go to the chase. So at first he tried calling NBC but couldn't get through so he called ABC and got on.
Janks, wasn't it?
It wasn't Janks. It was some guy from NYC. He was on the show explaining why he made the call. He was a Knick fan and he was getting annoyed that they were preempting the Knick championship game to go to the chase. So at first he tried calling NBC but couldn't get through so he called ABC and got on.
QUOTE (Dan Murfman @ Jun 19 2010, 10:37 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3034491
It wasn't Janks. It was some guy from NYC. He was on the show explaining why he made the call. He was a Knick fan and he was getting annoyed that they were preempting the Knick championship game to go to the chase. So at first he tried calling NBC but couldn't get through so he called ABC and got on.
It was Ponce De La Phone, and Skrub is correct, its the greatest phony phone call of all time.
It wasn't Janks. It was some guy from NYC. He was on the show explaining why he made the call. He was a Knick fan and he was getting annoyed that they were preempting the Knick championship game to go to the chase. So at first he tried calling NBC but couldn't get through so he called ABC and got on.
It was Ponce De La Phone, and Skrub is correct, its the greatest phony phone call of all time.
QUOTE (PayrodsFirstClutchHit @ Jun 17 2010, 11:59 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3028595
That was amazing stuff. So well put together and the lack of a narrator and showing some of the non broadcast stuff from Costas was great.
I was a little surprised at all the Arnold Palmer coverage until they showed the OJ/Arnold Hertz commercial at the end. I had forgotten all about that.
Award winning work.
Absolutely incredible, it was so well put together and definitely award winning work. The memories came flooding back in a way they haven't since all of that happened.
And finishing with Arnold Palmer and OJ doing a Hertz commercial together was a nice touch.
That was amazing stuff. So well put together and the lack of a narrator and showing some of the non broadcast stuff from Costas was great.
I was a little surprised at all the Arnold Palmer coverage until they showed the OJ/Arnold Hertz commercial at the end. I had forgotten all about that.
Award winning work.
Absolutely incredible, it was so well put together and definitely award winning work. The memories came flooding back in a way they haven't since all of that happened.
And finishing with Arnold Palmer and OJ doing a Hertz commercial together was a nice touch.
QUOTE (johnmd20 @ Jun 20 2010, 09:13 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3035718
And finishing with Arnold Palmer and OJ doing a Hertz commercial together was a nice touch.
One of about a dozen they co-starred in over the years. It was a brilliant ad campaign by Hertz, right up there with Wheaties, Nike and Miller Lite for use of athlete endorsements.
And finishing with Arnold Palmer and OJ doing a Hertz commercial together was a nice touch.
One of about a dozen they co-starred in over the years. It was a brilliant ad campaign by Hertz, right up there with Wheaties, Nike and Miller Lite for use of athlete endorsements.
"The Escobars" is on tonight at 9 pm ET. Supposedly, this is the only one of the series that made it to Cannes Film Festival according to Bill Simmons. Simmons says it's the best one of the series by far. 2 hour one as well.
QUOTE (RedOctober3829 @ Jun 22 2010, 06:14 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3039225
"The Escobars" is on tonight at 9 pm ET. Supposedly, this is the only one of the series that made it to Cannes Film Festival according to Bill Simmons. Simmons says it's the best one of the series by far. 2 hour one as well.
The intro alone was both brilliant and chilling.
"The Escobars" is on tonight at 9 pm ET. Supposedly, this is the only one of the series that made it to Cannes Film Festival according to Bill Simmons. Simmons says it's the best one of the series by far. 2 hour one as well.
The intro alone was both brilliant and chilling.
I know less about soccer than just about anyone on the planet, but this highlight montage of the Colombian team is absolutely incredible.
I was only able to watch 10 minutes of this, but only a crying infant was able to drag me away. Very well done
They have had some fine documentaries, but this was far and away the best. Just a stunning number of people who they interviewed, and I can't think of one who didn't help paint a picture of the three main characters (Pablo, Andres, and the world most dangerous country at that time - Columbia).
Tremendous job - the best 30 for 30 so far. I knew almost nothing about Andres Escobar and that part of the film was entertaining and informative. My only small complaint was that Pablo came off as a little too much of a "Robin Hood" type. Yes I realize what he did for many poor people, but the amount of atrocities he committed against innocent people was off the charts. Most Americans don't realize just how much of a psychotic killer he was (I recommend a great book called "Killing Pablo" if anyone is interested in learning more about the Medellin Cartel and Pablo's rise and fall). But all in all, an awesome job by these two brothers. They made the entire film in just over a year - pretty impressive.
QUOTE (Foxy42 @ Jun 23 2010, 06:25 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3040145
I 2nd the suggestion if reading "Killing Pablo". It is written by the author of "Black Hawk Down"...great book...
There's a good documentary on it from the History Channel for the illiterate folk. It's on YouTube in various parts as well.
I 2nd the suggestion if reading "Killing Pablo". It is written by the author of "Black Hawk Down"...great book...
There's a good documentary on it from the History Channel for the illiterate folk. It's on YouTube in various parts as well.
QUOTE (Rod Becks Mullet @ Jun 17 2010, 01:37 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3028780
I agree about the Griffey part, I didn't really see the need for it. Or it could have used a little more explaining otherwise. Seemed quite random, just thrown in there as if he hit another HR in a game that meant nothing.
I thought it was a good touch. It was his 30th homer, which is pointed out. He had a very real shot at 62 that season, until the strike snuffed it out. I think that's an element of the 1994 sports year that's totally forgotten now. That, and the fact that OJ was being discussed in the middle of a Mariners-Royals game added another layer to the way that story dominated the sports world that day.
Anyone notice who it was who made the awful OJ U.S. Open joke in the pregame?
Chip Caray.
Douche, then and now.
I agree about the Griffey part, I didn't really see the need for it. Or it could have used a little more explaining otherwise. Seemed quite random, just thrown in there as if he hit another HR in a game that meant nothing.
I thought it was a good touch. It was his 30th homer, which is pointed out. He had a very real shot at 62 that season, until the strike snuffed it out. I think that's an element of the 1994 sports year that's totally forgotten now. That, and the fact that OJ was being discussed in the middle of a Mariners-Royals game added another layer to the way that story dominated the sports world that day.
Anyone notice who it was who made the awful OJ U.S. Open joke in the pregame?
Chip Caray.
Douche, then and now.
QUOTE (BannedbyNYYFans.com @ Jun 23 2010, 03:19 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=3040134
Tremendous job - the best 30 for 30 so far. But all in all, an awesome job by these two brothers. They made the entire film in just over a year - pretty impressive.
It was amazing, I was transfixed for two hours. Stellar work, getting those interviews, getting those videos, and putting it all together so seamlessly is not easy. A+. Easy A+, should be higher.
Tremendous job - the best 30 for 30 so far. But all in all, an awesome job by these two brothers. They made the entire film in just over a year - pretty impressive.
It was amazing, I was transfixed for two hours. Stellar work, getting those interviews, getting those videos, and putting it all together so seamlessly is not easy. A+. Easy A+, should be higher.
