30 for 30

Spacemans Bong

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Meh, I can understand a certain amount of nostalgia. It's still the original building and it saw a great deal of history on its own - ten World Series and a bunch of memorable moments from Chambliss to the Pine Tar Game, Boone to Games 6 and 7 in 2004. Furthermore, the new stadium is so obviously built for people who qualify for an AMEX Black Card with everybody else an afterthought that I'm sure it leaves bitterness for some. The old park was like a Communist state by comparison. Giuliani actually had to walk up the same aisle as everybody else to get his beer and hot dog.

If I was a New Yorker I'd feel kind of pissed off. The Yankees, Mets, Giants and Jets have built new stadiums that totally screw me.
 

AquaNarc

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Kopple is a great, great filmmaker but this was disappointing. I think the stuff with Hal was fascinating, really well done, but unfortunately that was only about 15% of the doc. The rest was melodramatic fluff, maybe she thought this was for YES and not ESPN?
 

weeba

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Agreed to most points. I was looking forward to this one, but managed to make it about 15 minutes into before deciding to shut it off. I can only take so many New Yorkers crying about Yankee Stadium closing.

It was really nice of Jeter to thank that clubhouse attendant six times for painting a picture of him on a column. I'm sure he was honored by the horrible cursive writing. :buddy:
 

Rocco Graziosa

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One cool thing about that 30 for 30 was the sound guy for the documentary catching a foul ball in the 9th inning of the last game at Yankee stadium. He went bonkers when he caught it which was cool/funny.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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The Steinbrenner 30 for 30 was absolutely terrible, I'm talking Tupac/Tyson Def Poetry Slam terrible.

John Sterling crying, CRYING!, about George Steinbrenner paying for a coachs' wife's cancer treatment. It's nice that Steinbrenner did that, but come on, it's not like the two-time felon laid his hands on the woman and cured the cancer himself. And the construction worker who teared up when he thought of his kids looking at the park that is going to replace the Stadium? WTF? I thought that New York City was the toughest city in the world? These guys are all unmitigated pussies.

If this is what the Sox 30 for 30 episode is going to be like, I don't know if I want to watch it. This was a complete shit show. And honestly, it has nothing to do with me disliking the Yankees. I thought that the Steinbrenner SportsCentury was pretty damn awesome. But this? This was trite, overly forced sentimental bullshit wrapped in post-death image of George Steinbrenner as the kindly old grandfather.

Kopple's Oscar should be melted down and forced down her throat.
 

RedOctober3829

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I was thinking about watching this Yankee episode but was afraid it would devolve into a hagiography, so I skipped it. Thanks to everyone here who dove on the grenade.


I liked the Tyson/Tupac episode. Am I on an island here?
I actually liked the Steinbrenner one more than most. It really showed how fans really don't like the new stadium. Hal was great to watch behind the scenes. He's one weird dude, but is great with numbers and will do well with the team going forward.

That being said, Four Days in October is going to shit all over this.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I liked the Tyson/Tupac episode. Am I on an island here?
For the most part, I liked the Tupac/Tyson episode too, though I think that the connection to sports was a bit iffy. However, the worst part of that episode were the two poets who stood in the ring and screamed their insanely shitty Def poetry. I don't like Def poetry, like at all, so I fast forwarded through that entire part. It really brought down what could have been a terrific episode into mediocrity.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I was partly joking, but I maintain that NFL Films' sparkling track record makes it the far superior candidate to make a documentary. Their productions are nearly always top-notch, and I honestly cannot recall the last MLB production that really impressed me.
 
I think 'Four Days in October' will be pretty awesome, but I can't help but think that we'd all be better off if NFL Films did it.
So true. I love 90% of the stuff NFL Films does - especially some of those "America's Game" pieces. Whereas a lot of the MLB stuff really falls flat. Red October is correct that the story is so memorable and compelling to Sox fans, I'd be excited by nothing but still shots and a voice over, but I do fear it will be a little of a let down. I know their "A Season: 2004" kind of fell short (as did all of thoses "A Season" shows, imo). Of course I could be wrong...the trailer looked great.
 

Huntington Avenue Grounds

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So true. I love 90% of the stuff NFL Films does - especially some of those "America's Game" pieces. Whereas a lot of the MLB stuff really falls flat. Red October is correct that the story is so memorable and compelling to Sox fans, I'd be excited by nothing but still shots and a voice over, but I do fear it will be a little of a let down. I know their "A Season: 2004" kind of fell short (as did all of thoses "A Season" shows, imo). Of course I could be wrong...the trailer looked great.


I just checked the trailer for "The House of Steinbrenner" show and was shocked how dull and uninteresting they made the program look. I didn't watch it, but based on the reactions it HAD to be better than the clips they showed. I can't imagine even Yankee fans seeing it and thinking "I have to see this!". Using that logic the fact that Four Days in October's trailer was chill inducing is a good omen.

 

JimD

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I honestly cannot recall the last MLB production that really impressed me.
I thought MLB did a fine job on the 2004 DVD narrated by Denis Leary - the opening was right up there with the 30 for 30 trailer. 'Faith Rewarded' was a massive disappointment by comparison.
 

AquaNarc

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If they truly stick to just existing footage I don't see how they can possibly screw it up. It might not live up to expectations but it can't be bad.
 

kenneycb

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Just watched the Tyson and Tupac one and agree with the assessment of the slam poetry guys. Pretty good documentary but those scenes seemed somewhat forced especially at the end where it seemed to ruin the somewhat poignant moment when everyone was reflecting on where they were when they found out 'Pac had died. Overall it was pretty well done, though I'm pretty much a sucker for any Tupac documentary.
 

MarkBT

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Aug 7, 2008
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I've been waiting for this one since Simmons mentioned its existence way back when the '30 for 30' project was in the making. I was a Freshmen in college at a school in New Jersey with mostly Yankee fans during that fall. To this day sports just doesn't mean as much because that postseason can never be topped for me. I celebrated each of the Pats' wins and the 2008 Finals was close, but nothing can eclipse those four days.
 

HomeBrew1901

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"It was disappointing for everybody, but we're not done. I fully expect we'll come out tomorrow and play our ass off"

The waterworks started right there for me. Oh what a week.
No waterworks, but I welled up twice during that trailer. Holy crap was that an emotional week, after 2003 I damn near gave up on the Red Sox after Game 3 of 2004, possibly for good, thankfully I'll never know.
 

TFP

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Lenny's not the only one who'll be heard. From the Sox blog on ESPN Boston.

Produced by MLB Productions and partially narrated by ESPN's Bill Simmons and comedian Lenny Clarke, both Boston natives, the film aims to "capture the symbolic essence of the Boston Red Sox unprecedented 2004 ALCS comeback victory vs. their arch-rivals, the New York Yankees," according to the creators.
It doesn't matter though. I think it's still going to be incredible.
 

scottyno

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Dec 7, 2008
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can they please release a second version with no narration and only keep in the sound from in game and the announcing as it happened live
 

Salva135

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Simmons has been behind this entire 30 for 30 project... did anyone think he wasn't going to throw some words in here?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Never mind the validity of his baseball opinions, he's got no basis of voicing any part of this thing because he doesn't have the pipes. Simmons has a terrible voice for TV and voiceover.

Jesus. Between him and Lenny Fucking Clarke they're going to do their best to ruin what should be an awesome show.
 

JimD

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Lenny Clarke and Bill Simmons – really? Is that the best they could do? Clarke has one of the most annoying voices on the planet.

Given his work to bring ’30 for 30’ to life, I have no problem with Simmons working in some talking-head time for himself, but seriously - there should be no shortage of actors and personalities with great pipes who are Sox fans. Matt Damon would have been terrific for this.

My enthusiasm level is way, way down right now.
 

Spacemans Bong

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Lenny Clarke and Bill Simmons – really? Is that the best they could do? Clarke has one of the most annoying voices on the planet.

Given his work to bring ’30 for 30’ to life, I have no problem with Simmons working in some talking-head time for himself, but seriously - there should be no shortage of actors and personalities with great pipes who are Sox fans. Matt Damon would have been terrific for this.

My enthusiasm level is way, way down right now.
You know what? I don't want to see any celebrities at all. The amount of celebrities (which might be stretching it for Lenny Clarke) who are real fans of sports teams is way, way low. That's not always their fault, since a lot of these people are really busy, but really what the fuck are they going to bring that a regular fan can't? I'd much rather see season ticket holders and man on the street types.
 

JimD

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No disagreement here. I don't give a shit how Bill Simmons or Lenny Clarke felt when it was happening, and I certainly don't need anyone to Tell Me What It All Meant, but I have a sinking feeling that's what we're going to get.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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If Bill Simmons doesn't deserve to be on the 30 for 30 Red Sox world series episode,then who does? For christ sake he literally invented the vehicle.

As for Clarke, meh. No way his presence could impact this show enough to ruin it.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Rocco, the obvious point we've been making isn't who deserves or doesn't deserve it. Simmons has a terrible voice for TV. Honestly, I could agree with everything he's ever said and he'd still be a bad choice for the show because he doesn't possess an appealing voice to listen to on the show.
 

Huntington Avenue Grounds

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Oh boy. Well, this news is a bit of a cold shower, but maybe for the best. I can't think of the last time I've been more jacked up for a program than this, to the point where it would have been hard to meet expectations. Now those have been lowered substantially.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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Rocco, the obvious point we've been making isn't who deserves or doesn't deserve it. Simmons has a terrible voice for TV. Honestly, I could agree with everything he's ever said and he'd still be a bad choice for the show because he doesn't possess an appealing voice to listen to on the show.

Well I certainly would like to hear about his experience with regards to that magic ride. Also I've gotten used to his voice from listening to his podcasts, which in general are good stuff.

I think Bill has shown great restraint keeping himself generally off these things. I saw him on the Miami one, but I can't recall him making an appearance in another.
 

Alcohol&Overcalls

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Well I certainly would like to hear about his experience with regards to that magic ride. Also I've gotten used to his voice from listening to his podcasts, which in general are good stuff.
Yeah! If only Simmons had a vehicle with which to relay his experiences with large-scale sporting events . . . it's too bad ESPN doesn't let him shoehorn those into his weekly reality TV and fantasy/gambling football columns.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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Yeah! If only Simmons had a vehicle with which to relay his experiences with large-scale sporting events . . . it's too bad ESPN doesn't let him shoehorn those into his weekly reality TV and fantasy/gambling football columns.
Uh, he already wrote a best selling book on the 2004 Red Sox.

Man you guy really HATE Bill Simmons huh?
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Lenny Clarke is going to narrate this thing? Lenny Clarke? LENNY FUCKING CLARKE? Are you joking me? This fucking guy is a complete and total disaster, from his shit comedy to his equally shitty voice to his whole being. Why don't they just go the full nine and have noted WEEI "personality" Larry Johnson narrate it too?

Fucking Lenny Clarke? This is going to be worse than the Steinbrenner 30 for 30. Christ, I want to punch my monitor. Then Simmons. Then I'd like to build a time machine and go back a year and bash Lenny Clarke in the larynx with a shovel so he can't talk any more.

Way to ruin a good idea with a "stereotypical Bostoner". I bet Lenny Clarke yells a bit and I bet he uses a Boston accent!

This is going to be the fucking greatest thing ever. FUCK.
 

URI

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I'm sorry folks, but I can't see Lenny Clarke or Bill Simmons ruining this for me.
 

Dehere

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If Bill Simmons doesn't deserve to be on the 30 for 30 Red Sox world series episode,then who does? For christ sake he literally invented the vehicle.
But part of being a producer is recognizing that someone else can do the job better than you can. I don't want to see Simmons narrate this any more than I want to see Matt Weiner give himself a choice role on Mad Men, although I think it would be fine for Simmons to be one of the interview subjects.

It's a complete vanity move. Nobody who's ever heard Simmons could argue that there aren't far better choices out there. It's a big turn-off for me. It now feels less like a gift to Sox fans and more like a c-list celebrity jerk-off.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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But part of being a producer is recognizing that someone else can do the job better than you can. I don't want to see Simmons narrate this any more than I want to see Matt Weiner give himself a choice role on Mad Men, although I think it would be fine for Simmons to be one of the interview subjects.

It's a complete vanity move. Nobody who's ever heard Simmons could argue that there aren't far better choices out there. It's a big turn-off for me. It now feels less like a gift to Sox fans and more like a c-list celebrity jerk-off.
Where did you hear that Simmons is going to narrate? From my understanding, all his role is in the documentary is that of an interview subject offering commentary.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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He's going to be a talking head, not the narrator. So he'll get, what, 10 minutes of screen time? Nowhere near enough to ruin anything.

I can't believe how nuts you guys are getting about this.
From the ESPN press release:

Produced by MLB Productions and partially narrated by ESPN's Bill Simmons and comedian Lenny Clarke, both Boston natives ...
There are two celebrities mentioned in this release and both of them are C-list at best, meaning if that there was someone better that person would be there before these Simmons and fucking Lenny Clarke. That leads me to believe that this is not going to be as cool (and FTR, I have no problem with Simmons being in this thing as a talking head, I thought that he did a decent job in the USFL one) but Clarke is going to destroy it. Have you ever heard that asshole talk?
 

Huntington Avenue Grounds

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He's going to be a talking head, not the narrator. So he'll get, what, 10 minutes of screen time? Nowhere near enough to ruin anything.

I can't believe how nuts you guys are getting about this.
Really? I've still got the vision of Jimmy Fucking Fallon and Drew Fucking Barrymore on the field after game 4. Didn't "ruin" anything but their presence was unnecessary, a distraction and served as an attempt to undermine the joy of the moment for self serving purposes.

Kind of like the feeling I have now over Four Days in October.
 

Huntington Avenue Grounds

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[font="arial][size="2"]What is beginning to anger me over this is that if they get it wrong, there is not another attempt coming in the near future.
[/font]

The problem I see with this is that, going in, 30 for 30 looked to be an exercise in self-congratulatory promotion by TWWL in all it had to do in creating or shaping these events. The shows have had hits and misses but the thing that stands out is the director's vision in each project, rather than an ESPN suit calling the shots. As one who thought ESPN could not do it right, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong here. Where HBO really set the standard and had the sports documentary market cornered for many years 30 for 30 is a legitimate challenger to that title. However, it seems that my fears have come full circle.

If it's now a question of "who deserves" to be included this is suddenly not sounding like an attempt to capture those four days but rather reminisce over "the good ol' days" with some buddies. This subject is hallowed ground to us and while a lot of ink has been spilled and trees felled over that team and those days, nothing has really captured the overall spirit and feeling of that period (I'd say the SI Sportsman of the Year issue comes closest for me personally). I've read Simmons' book and it mirrors the rest of his repertoire, an easy, fast read that is neither deep nor fully satisfying. It's literary fast food. So the prospect of hearing him go on about those four days with Lenny Clark (the human equivalent of nails on a chalkboard) does not fill me with promise for a ground breaking show that sets the standard for this subject.

This story is about one team and one fan bases identification and obsession with them. Anything more than that is unnecessary. [/size]
 

Rocco Graziosa

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From the ESPN press release:



There are two celebrities mentioned in this release and both of them are C-list at best, meaning if that there was someone better that person would be there before these Simmons and fucking Lenny Clarke. That leads me to believe that this is not going to be as cool (and FTR, I have no problem with Simmons being in this thing as a talking head, I thought that he did a decent job in the USFL one) but Clarke is going to destroy it. Have you ever heard that asshole talk?

Ok, now I'm on board with you guys. Interviewing them would be fine and appropriate.....but actually narrating? This has to be some sort of mistake.