5 vs 8: Where we discuss the quality (or lack thereof) of NBA Playoff Officiating

Fishercat

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So, dumb question, because that's my jam here. Would it be advantageous for a certain player to bait a first technical on purpose and then just do this kind of thing all game long? While I think HRB's rationale for this isn't something I agree with I think he's right in terms of how they are approaching it*, so it feels like a really small punishment when it gives you, as a player, so much more room to be a complete menace on the court. It's pretty clear star players take advantage of it with regular fouls (knowing the odds of a ref giving a sixth foul to a Lebron or Giannis are near zero in a playoff game outside of literal assault, and even then...), but this seems much less risky in all honesty. There seems to be a really huge gap to exploit between "foul that will get you your first tech" and "foul that will get you your second tech". At least last night it seemed pretty clear that the value Draymond Green got out of that leniency probably exceeded the punishment of the first tech.

* This being a standard practice in the NBA is kind of crazy to me. Independent of the actual double tech / no tech that occurred with Brown (it felt like a weak tech if it happened independent of the situation), imagine if there was a Red Sox/Mets WS, there's a HBP and warnings go out, and the reaction of Jacob Degrom was that he could brushback hitters with impunity or openly taunt hitters because they won't eject him out of fear of ejecting a major player in a finals game? Change the rule if you're not going to call a second tech if you would have otherwise. Or don't call offsetting technical fouls at all.
 

BigJimEd

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Yeah I’m the one biased ok. He pushed something…..his chest, his legs, single T’s are often assessed for retaliation. I wouldn’t have been in favor of that either. Not every minor skirmish has to have an exotic ending with whistles, T’s and ejections.
I never said he should get ejected but your "recollection" is showing your bias. Either that or you're making things up in an attempt to strengthen your argument. Just because others might have a bias doesn't mean you do not.
 

tbb345

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I initially thought that it was intentional to hurt or impede. On the replay I do think it's quite possible Poole was trying to defend himself. What I am not clear on is why a very dangerous trip becomes ok because part of your intent may have been to protect yourself---it still is a very dangerous play, and it still impacted the play on the floor. I guess that is why they didn't call a technical (so, interpretation of 'protecting himself' means it was not 'unreasonable' contact and thus not a technical?)

Ultimately Mark Jackson to me had it right---he did trip White. It was clearly intentional (he did not just reach up, he reaches for and his hands try to grab the leg). Whether his intent was to harm or impede or protect himself, that's a lot of contact in a dangerous situation.
I’ve watched that replay a bunch and posted the video in the game thread.

The correct call would have been doing nothing and allowing the Celtics a fast break and points.

However, once they blew the whistle and called the flagrant there is no fucking way it should have been rescinded.

Poole wasn’t protecting himself in the slightest. He lifted his head up, towards Whites feet, and then fully extended both of his arms to try and grab Whites feet/knee and prevent him from getting up floor. Someone protecting themselves in that situation moves their heads backwards and sideways then bends their arms to position their hands in front of their face to absorb contact. It’s shocking that they watched the video of it multiple times and came to that conclusion
 

HomeRunBaker

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I never said he should get ejected but your "recollection" is showing your bias. Either that or you're making things up in an attempt to strengthen your argument. Just because others might have a bias doesn't mean you do not.
Why would I have a bias? I’m a Celtics fan. I initiallly made a comment last night joking about what the game thread must look like for what I felt was an obvious and easy no-call even on review.
What about trying to Pants the Guy?
Oh that’s different. Immediate ejection and 6-game suspension.
 

TrapperAB

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We don’t really need to Zapruder the Draymond tape. Push, shove, pants, who cares? He spent the entire game being an asshole, and putting his feet on Brown was just one more incident of assholery.

He was daring the refs to stop him knowing that they wouldn’t. He’s been perfecting this crap over the past decade rather than working on his jumper.

I suspect he knows that the whistle won’t be as kind in Game 3 because some of what he did was egregious.

He also doesn’t give a fuck because he got what he wanted: aggravated Celtics players and a Warriors W.
 

McBride11

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Why would I have a bias? I’m a Celtics fan. I initiallly made a comment last night joking about what the game thread must look like for what I felt was an obvious and easy no-call even on review.

Oh that’s different. Immediate ejection and 6-game suspension.
So stopping a fast break for nothing was okay? It cost the Cs momentum and points after a great White block.

and Poole grabbed a player from the floor who was trying to run up court, ‘easy non call’ is disingenuous
 
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Celts have made it through Giannis, who plays by different rules, Butler, who gets automatic whistles on what seems like 90% of his drives, and Lowry, who flops and embellishes more than anyone in the league. I trust they can handle Draymond. They’ll do it by focusing on basketball and making their open jump shots. Although I would not be heartbroken if Grant picks up an early flagrant-1 on a hard foul on him in G3. Dray yaps a lot, obviously, but he’s pretty spindly in comparison and won’t do much unless he can aggress and run away. Was it just me or was Draymond yelling “errand boy” at Grant toward the end of G2?
 

TrapperAB

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As much as I hate it, Grant and others might have to do a 24-hour intensive at Kyle Lowry’s Acting School for Sketchy Shit (ASSS), with specific focus on Histrionic Foul Embellishment and Flopping for Whistles.

When Draymond decides to be a lead blocker, every player he touches should go flying. When he pushes Smart in the back, Smart should end up eight rows deep in some rich guy’s lap being resuscitated with a defibrillator and/or a $15 beer. When he sets a pick, snap back, scream, fall down, roll around, ask the nearest ref to tell your mama you love her and gesture to the bench for a priest to give last rites.

If, as we were told in the earlier rounds, they’re not going to call it unless a body hits the floor, then hit the fucking floor and see what the refs do.

And if they don’t do anything, put Green on the floor.
 

scottyno

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Unquestionably. It’s going to have to be pretty egregious for him to get tossed out of an NBA Finals game though and he knows this.
You just described preferential treatment. Dray even admitted after the game that he gets it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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So stopping a fast break for nothing was okay? It cost the Cs momentum and points after a great White block.

and Poole grabbed a player from the floor who was trying to run up court, ‘easy non call’ is disingenuous
I was referring to the Draymond play being an easy non-call but the Poole play certainly could have been too but at game speed it did look like a tackle. Still, I had already stated last night that the whistle was a bad mistake as it penalized the Celtics…….which maybe was the purpose of it. If a ref is working to alter the natural result that is an innocuous way of doing so. Refs way of giving a take foul.
 

tbb345

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I’d take the over Draymond offensive fouls at 1.5 in game 3. And over 5.5 fouls…
Yup. He’s not making it through one of these next two games and I would put my money on Game 3.

To clarify I mean he will either foul out or get thrown out.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You just described preferential treatment. Dray even admitted after the game that he gets it.
Preferential treatment to all players. You’d have to commit one heck of an act to get tossed from a Finals game compared to a ref simply being annoyed with a player when he’s having a bad personal night so he’ll toss him.
 

lars10

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As much as I hate it, Grant and others might have to do a 24-hour intensive at Kyle Lowry’s Acting School for Sketchy Shit (ASSS), with specific focus on Histrionic Foul Embellishment and Flopping for Whistles.

When Draymond decides to be a lead blocker, every player he touches should go flying. When he sets a pick, snap back, scream, fall down, roll around, ask the nearest ref to tell your mama you love her and gesture to the bench for a priest to give last rites.

If, as we were told in the earlier rounds, they’re not going to call it unless a body hits the floor, then hit the fucking floor and see what the refs do.

And if they don’t do anything, put Green on the floor.
They did this a few times in game 2 with zero calls. Even the ones that didn’t require embellishment weren’t called. Perhaps game 3 is different.

was thinking about this today.. has Draymond basically turned his game into a more vocal Dennis Rodman with less rebounding?
 

chilidawg

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They did this a few times in game 2 with zero calls. Even the ones that didn’t require embellishment weren’t called. Perhaps game 3 is different.

was thinking about this today.. has Draymond basically turned his game into a more vocal Dennis Rodman with less rebounding?
The Rodman comp has crossed my mind before.
 

djbayko

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Preferential treatment to all players. You’d have to commit one heck of an act to get tossed from a Finals game compared to a ref simply being annoyed with a player when he’s having a bad personal night so he’ll toss him.
You and others who support this policy are putting blame/responsibility on the refs to not make consistent calls due to game situation when the onus should be on Draymond Green to not commit technical fouls in certain game situations (which, by the way, are of his own making). When a player gets a tech, they should have to be really fucking careful the rest of the game - that's their fault for getting a T in the first place. There are players who get a handful of Ts in their entire careers, so it's not like this is an impossible standard to set. The way it is today allows players like Green to make careers out of getting away with dirty and unsportsmanlike play.
 

Jimbodandy

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The Rodman comp has crossed my mind before.
Don't have to back that far. Lowry basically spent the last series hacking guys, fouling them while in the air compromised, yanking two different guys' arms out of their sockets. Refs didn't call shit, so he did more and more of it.

Gotta treat this series like it's on the playground without refs. Because that's how it's being called.
 

scottyno

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Preferential treatment to all players. You’d have to commit one heck of an act to get tossed from a Finals game compared to a ref simply being annoyed with a player when he’s having a bad personal night so he’ll toss him.
"It’s not that I’m saying they necessarily treat me different. I’ve earned differential treatment. I enjoy that. I embrace that."

Dray did 3 or 4 things in the first half that would often be called technicals. Plus tackling 2 Celtics players while the Warriors were on offense which resulted in a net of 1 defensive foul. Please try and argue how he doesn't get different treatment. He knows because of his history of getting tossed from a finals game which likely swung the series winner and caused a lot of controversy that the league doesn't want that to happen again so he can get away with almost anything.
 
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lars10

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You and others who support this policy are putting blame/responsibility on the refs to not make consistent calls due to game situation when the onus should be on Draymond Green to not commit technical fouls in certain game situations (which, by the way, are of his own making). When a player gets a tech, they should have to be really fucking careful the rest of the game - that's their fault for getting a T in the first place. There are players who get a handful of Ts in their entire careers, so it's not like this is an impossible standard to set. The way it is today allows players like Green to make careers out of getting away with dirty and unsportsmanlike play.
It’s like playing with five personal fouls.. you should have to change the way you act and play.. not be rewarded for it.
 

lars10

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Don't have to back that far. Lowry basically spent the last series hacking guys, fouling them while in the air compromised, yanking two different guys' arms out of their sockets. Refs didn't call shit, so he did more and more of it.

Gotta treat this series like it's on the playground without refs. Because that's how it's being called.
Rodman and Green are more talented players at this point.. Lowry is toast and has no other part of his game left other than flopping
 

HomeRunBaker

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"It’s not that I’m saying they necessarily treat me different. I’ve earned differential treatment. I enjoy that. I embrace that."

Dray did 3 or 4 things in the first half that would often be called technicals. Plus tackling 2 Celtics players while the Warriors were on offense which resulted in a net of 1 defensive foul. Please try and argue how he doesn't get different treatment. He knows because of his history of getting tossed from a finals game which likely swung the series winner and caused a lot of controversy that the league doesn't want that to happen again so he can get away with almost anything.
Any player who pushes the envelope, and is good at it, has an enormous advantage. Lowry is another. I don’t know what 3 or 4 technical foul acts you’re referring to bc that seems ridiculous but during the course of a game he absolutely gains an advantage with the way he plays just like a Lowry and some others do.
 

lars10

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He spent a whole series hacking the shit out of everyone and helping to extend it to 7 games, so it seems relevant.
Yeah.. my point wasn’t just about the fouling. I think Green was a very talented player who has reduced his game to being a bully and an irritant. He could have been better but thinks his role is to be the guy that instigates instead. I don’t think Lowry has the potential to be more than what he is at this point.
 

reggiecleveland

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tbb345

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Any player who pushes the envelope, and is good at it, has an enormous advantage. Lowry is another. I don’t know what 3 or 4 technical foul acts you’re referring to bc that seems ridiculous but during the course of a game he absolutely gains an advantage with the way he plays just like a Lowry and some others do.
Lowry’s a different case. I think he’s awful to watch (honestly he’s everything wrong with basketball in my opinion) but I don’t think he’s officiated differently when it comes to technical fouls.

Draymond is 100000000%. I don’t know when the refs collectively decided they didnt want to T him up a lot but it’s crazy to watch (and I’m not talking about just this series, I mean every game of the season). If any other player complained as aggressively as he does consistently they would be thrown out of the game. I don’t even think that’s controversial at this point, it’s just fact
 

fairlee76

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The Rodman comp has crossed my mind before.
The perception of Rodman by the general public, by announcing crews, and by the officials was way more negative in terms of how they viewed his more, uh, provocative plays, I think? And this is coming from someone who generally loved watching Rodman play.

And I thought Green said he has earned "deferential treatment" which seems to make more sense given his status as a veteran/respected elder in the eyes of the officials.
 

Five Cent Head

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I naïvely thought that the point of the first technical foul was a warning, as in "cool it or you're going to get tossed." Since that's not the reality, maybe they should change the rules. JVG has suggested changes like this for regular fouls (he would prefer that people not foul out), so how about this: after the 2nd technical foul on a given player, the other team gets 2 shots, after the 3rd, 3 shots, etc. And then the guidance should be to use the same criteria for each technical foul, so referees should be able to call Draymond for 8 technicals in a game, just at a severe cost to his team.
 

nighthob

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If I'm Ime, I start Game 3 with Grant Williams pummeling the fuck out of Draymond up and down the court for the first 5 minutes of the game. I don't even care if he picks up 3-4 fouls. Just send that dickhead a message that it's going to be a LONG night for him.
At the very least have Grant give Green the full Dray and kick him in the cajones.
 

The Mort Report

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While I've always held the belief that there is some internal discussion to coax out longer series, we had an ex NBA referee come out and basically say as much last night. It got me thinking, with gambling now legal and the NBA partnering and taking ad revenue from these companies, wouldn't it be considered collusion to make even slightest change on the outcome? Before I would think they could claim they are an entertainment company, and they wanted to bring the people more entertainment/long series. Now they are taking huge amounts of gambling money, that argument doesn't fly anymore. Hell, I wonder if picking the refs game to game wouldn't be considered fixing games. I may be completely wrong on how the laws work, but that's sure what I'm seeing here if they are effecting the outcomes of playoff games
 

Marciano490

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While I've always held the belief that there is some internal discussion to coax out longer series, we had an ex NBA referee come out and basically say as much last night. It got me thinking, with gambling now legal and the NBA partnering and taking ad revenue from these companies, wouldn't it be considered collusion to make even slightest change on the outcome? Before I would think they could claim they are an entertainment company, and they wanted to bring the people more entertainment/long series. Now they are taking huge amounts of gambling money, that argument doesn't fly anymore. Hell, I wonder if picking the refs game to game wouldn't be considered fixing games. I may be completely wrong on how the laws work, but that's sure what I'm seeing here if they are effecting the outcomes of playoff games
Maybe the sharps have an advantage with the ref fixing and the retail gamblers are gonna gamble regardless.
 
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At the very least have Grant give Green the full Dray and kick him in the cajones.
This would be very satisfying, but I think Curry and co. benefit from the Draymond distractions because they’re so used to it. So Grant might as well kick himself in the balls. That said, what are the chances Draymond crosses the line at some point this series and actually loses his shit? Can we get KG to coach Grant’s insults up over the next 32 hours? ‘Sheed?
 

HomeRunBaker

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While I've always held the belief that there is some internal discussion to coax out longer series, we had an ex NBA referee come out and basically say as much last night. It got me thinking, with gambling now legal and the NBA partnering and taking ad revenue from these companies, wouldn't it be considered collusion to make even slightest change on the outcome? Before I would think they could claim they are an entertainment company, and they wanted to bring the people more entertainment/long series. Now they are taking huge amounts of gambling money, that argument doesn't fly anymore. Hell, I wonder if picking the refs game to game wouldn't be considered fixing games. I may be completely wrong on how the laws work, but that's sure what I'm seeing here if they are effecting the outcomes of playoff games
How would this be any different than Boxing or UFC where you also have 3 individuals, who may have an interest in the result, determining who wins and who loses? The difference in the NBA playoffs, and especially The Finals, is that anyone paying attention knows which side the bias with be on.

My point is that these scenarios exist every weekend all over the world in sports betting. Should I even mention Japanese soccer VAR officials?
 

The Mort Report

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How would this be any different than Boxing or UFC where you also have 3 individuals, who may have an interest in the result, determining who wins and who loses? The difference in the NBA playoffs, and especially The Finals, is that anyone paying attention knows which side the bias with be on.

My point is that these scenarios exist every weekend all over the world in sports betting. Should I even mention Japanese soccer VAR officials?
I understand what you’re saying, but with the legal gambling aspect added, I don’t think we can use past experiences. Honestly I think it will take one court challenge to blow it all up. Really surprised this hasn’t happened yet
 

bakahump

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I seriously dont have any idea what your promoting @HomeRunBaker

I mean it sounds like we shouldnt have any rules. We should let Refs just make it up as it goes along.
"I dont like Browns haircut tonight. FOUL!"
"I like that Grant Williams....always smiling. He cant have meant to decapitate that guy on the drive".

Is that what we are reduced to? WhateverTF prefential treatment the Refs want to give is a-ok?
 

Dave Stapleton

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I just wanted to add here that Javie is really bad in his role as analyst. He always carries the water of the league or the refs and never offers anything useful or insightful.

For example, the correct analysis on this play should have been "Of course that looks like a double technical foul based on a strict reading of the rules. And if this was a regular season game or if this was Dray's first T then I think you will see that called most of the time. However, this is the NBA Championship and these guys are human and I know if i were in their shoes, it would be difficult for me to make that call where it means the guy gets tossed and it impacts the outcome of the game". Instead, he tried to argue that because it was his second foul then the refs should look at it differently (almost as an acceptable exception to the rule with league endorsement).

This is what's maddening about the NBA officiating. There's no accountability or consistency. They are the league of "making things up as they go along".

Have I mentioned that it is unbelievable that the NBA won't announce its refs until the morning of each game?
 

HomeRunBaker

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I seriously dont have any idea what your promoting @HomeRunBaker

I mean it sounds like we shouldnt have any rules. We should let Refs just make it up as it goes along.
"I dont like Browns haircut tonight. FOUL!"
"I like that Grant Williams....always smiling. He cant have meant to decapitate that guy on the drive".

Is that what we are reduced to? WhateverTF prefential treatment the Refs want to give is a-ok?
This happens in every sport. What is NFL offensive holding? An experienced veteran understands what he can and can’t get away with better than a rookie his first couple go arounds. Do you disagree with this?

Why do contenders pick up veteran role players as opposed to 1st or second year players?
 

bakahump

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But (Afaik) a veteren LG doesnt get Less holding calls then a rookie RT. Sure on every play you could call it. But thats what makes NFL refs seemingly better then NBA refs. Their calls are usually not an interruption to game flow. (for the most part).
And Sure game context matters.
But I guarantee were a Veteren Safety to head hunt on a specific play they would call a personal Foul. They would later call offsetting Personal fouls if that same Safety grabbed a Facemask during an altercation. They wouldnt wave it away because it was Rodney Harrison.

Last I saw Theis was veteran or certainly on the verge of being a veteran and he doesnt get any calls.
Can you define "Veteran" or is that, like the enforcement of rules, ambiguous?
 

HomeRunBaker

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But (Afaik) a veteren LG doesnt get Less holding calls then a rookie RT. Sure on every play you could call it. But thats what makes NFL refs seemingly better then NBA refs. Their calls are usually not an interruption to game flow. (for the most part).
And Sure game context matters.
But I guarantee were a Veteren Safety to head hunt on a specific play they would call a personal Foul. They would later call offsetting Personal fouls if that same Safety grabbed a Facemask during an altercation. They wouldnt wave it away because it was Rodney Harrison.

Last I saw Theis was veteran or certainly on the verge of being a veteran and he doesnt get any calls.
Can you define "Veteran" or is that, like the enforcement of rules, ambiguous?
The clear and obvious difference is that Theis is not especially good at what he does whereas Green is elite. People do this all the time in discounting prime-Harden and LeBrons ability to create angles and draw fouls while wondering why then 22-yr old Jayson Tatum didn’t get those same calls. It’s bc they aren’t the same calls……one has an elite level in understanding how to use their body to draw a whistle while the young player doesn’t. It works the same way defensively.
 

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There were no angles on Green’s non called fouls. He tackled Grant, he ran down the court and pushed 3 guys like he was fullback, he grabbed Jaylen’s arm with 2 hands to “force” a turnover. Show me the angles he created because they were all ridiculously obvious to anyone paying attention.

Edit: And I don’t blame Draymond. The refs let him do it so he took advantage. The refs were a joke with how Green was officiated last game.
 

tbb345

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I think that the perception of NBA officiating to the fans is much, much worse than it is for other sports.

I mean, Bill Burr went on a talk show on national TV and had a whole bit about how it’s not worth watching the first 3 quarters of an NBA game because the refs will do whatever they can to keep the game close. Obviously that’s an exaggeration for entertainment but it’s not a great look that someone can do that bit on national tv and think that the audience will all understand
 

reggiecleveland

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I think that the perception of NBA officiating to the fans is much, much worse than it is for other sports.

I mean, Bill Burr went on a talk show on national TV and had a whole bit about how it’s not worth watching the first 3 quarters of an NBA game because the refs will do whatever they can to keep the game close. Obviously that’s an exaggeration for entertainment but it’s not a great look that someone can do that bit on national tv and think that the audience will all understand
Reffing basketball is harder, much harder. Almost all baseball plays are easy yes/no decisions.
The NFL has limited replay, and has an iron fist where it literally is killing its athletes slowly. They are a century ahead of other leagues in getting their way. Also the plays, in reality, are easier to ref. We have seen some high comedy with what is and isn't a catch though. But, the NFL will also punish broadcasters who go after officials or a call too much.

The NBA is dominated by players, and especially stars. Brady never played 50% of the game let alone 80% of it. The star system makes money for the league but makes officiating very difficult. They have a ridiculous replay policy that almost always leads to a bad solution.
 

bakahump

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I guess thats were I would differ with many of you. If Draymond Green is a "Star" then Why Not JT or JB? How many games have other Stars fouled out of this playoffs?
Draymond is not a Star. He is not one of the 32 or even 64 best bastketball players on the planet. I would also contend that driving to the hoop and using your body (ala Butler) is much different then what Green or Lowry are doing.
It seems like we are trying to say that "We need to live with Giannis getting the Giannis treatment" except we are not talking about Giannis or Lebron. We arent talking about a flying drive to the hoop that ends in a thunderous dunk and 1. We are talking about Draymond Green. We are talking about tackling multiple players. We are talking about trying to pull down pants. We are talking about bordering or crossing into Dirty play.
Plus even when the staunchest "Stars get star treatment" like at the end of the Bucks series was like "uhhhh Yeaaahhhhh Giannis is going a little overboard."
Arguing "Well its hard" doesnt sit well with me. You whats hard? Making up degrees of rules your gonna enforce. Whats hard is explaining why when One player does something he is allowed. When another does it he is called for a trangression. Thats hard.
I can see we wont agree. And I admit that many of you advocating that Green is "in the right" are alot more knowledgeable about the NBA then I am.
But that doesnt make it a good thing. Or something that the NBA shouldnt be trying to fix. As mentioned above.....when casual fans are like "WTF..I guess I dont understand the game"....you have a problem. Because Sports dont want YOU as fans. They want ALL the fans.
Might be an interesting discussion about why Baseball and football have dominated popularity over the last 100 years......while basketball and hockey which are are much more arbitrary in their enforcement of rules always plays second, third or fourth fiddle.
 

djbayko

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I wonder if part of the leagues rationale for this is to make their officials less prone to being tampered with or otherwise influenced by outside parties for a particular game?
I believe this is the reason. But I think it’s kind of dumb because it can very easily be thwarted.

The ironic thing is that, as a result of the Donaghy scandal, the NBA actually moved the announcement of refs up from 90 minutes before the game to the morning of, to make the information less valuable for gamblers.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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Foul:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BhvxHzi3jY



Not a foul:

52257

This is not about it being "hard" to referee basketball, this is not about Draymond being "good" at what he does. This is complete, utter and total bullshit that everyone who watches the NBA saw coming 10 minutes after the Celtics won the first game. Period. That's it. Consistency on both ends of the floor. That's it. That's all anyone wants.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
26,722
Saskatoon Canada
I guess thats were I would differ with many of you. If Draymond Green is a "Star" then Why Not JT or JB? How many games have other Stars fouled out of this playoffs?
Draymond is not a Star. He is not one of the 32 or even 64 best bastketball players on the planet. I would also contend that driving to the hoop and using your body (ala Butler) is much different then what Green or Lowry are doing.
It seems like we are trying to say that "We need to live with Giannis getting the Giannis treatment" except we are not talking about Giannis or Lebron. We arent talking about a flying drive to the hoop that ends in a thunderous dunk and 1. We are talking about Draymond Green. We are talking about tackling multiple players. We are talking about trying to pull down pants. We are talking about bordering or crossing into Dirty play.
Plus even when the staunchest "Stars get star treatment" like at the end of the Bucks series was like "uhhhh Yeaaahhhhh Giannis is going a little overboard."
Arguing "Well its hard" doesnt sit well with me. You whats hard? Making up degrees of rules your gonna enforce. Whats hard is explaining why when One player does something he is allowed. When another does it he is called for a trangression. Thats hard.
I can see we wont agree. And I admit that many of you advocating that Green is "in the right" are alot more knowledgeable about the NBA then I am.
But that doesnt make it a good thing. Or something that the NBA shouldnt be trying to fix. As mentioned above.....when casual fans are like "WTF..I guess I dont understand the game"....you have a problem. Because Sports dont want YOU as fans. They want ALL the fans.
Might be an interesting discussion about why Baseball and football have dominated popularity over the last 100 years......while basketball and hockey which are are much more arbitrary in their enforcement of rules always plays second, third or fourth fiddle.
I will suggest that perhaps there is some bias involved in suggesting:
1. Tatum and Brown do not get star treatemnt
2. That Brown and Tatum have achieved the status what Drayomond Green has done in his career.
3. The game is hard to ref, you simply cannot make it simple just so everyone gets it. Players are fatser, jump higher get better at avoiding and creating contact, it gets harder as they improve. Invested fans will have 5-10 calls a game they won't like.

Be careful what you wish for if you want no special treatment.

Tatum does get calls. He tends to avoid contact which may make him last longer than Larry Bird, and other who sought contact. But often he is going away from the hoop and does not get the call. At least once a game gets to the line on weak, going away from the hoop off 1 foot Eurostep that must infuriate any non Celtic fan. Tatum also whines all game. He whines an embarrassing amount. He whines , doesn't run back on D while the ball is in play. You will see non-stars get techs if the whine while the ball is in play. Tatum gets special treatment.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
24,982
There were no angles on Green’s non called fouls. He tackled Grant, he ran down the court and pushed 3 guys like he was fullback, he grabbed Jaylen’s arm with 2 hands to “force” a turnover. Show me the angles he created because they were all ridiculously obvious to anyone paying attention.

Edit: And I don’t blame Draymond. The refs let him do it so he took advantage. The refs were a joke with how Green was officiated last game.
Nobody is denying the G2 officiating atrocities I was speaking more in generalities.