What about trying to Pants the Guy?LOL at that being interpreted as “illegal contact.” He barely touched him with his leg get outta here. I’m moving on from that play. It’s getting absurd now.
What about trying to Pants the Guy?LOL at that being interpreted as “illegal contact.” He barely touched him with his leg get outta here. I’m moving on from that play. It’s getting absurd now.
I never said he should get ejected but your "recollection" is showing your bias. Either that or you're making things up in an attempt to strengthen your argument. Just because others might have a bias doesn't mean you do not.Yeah I’m the one biased ok. He pushed something…..his chest, his legs, single T’s are often assessed for retaliation. I wouldn’t have been in favor of that either. Not every minor skirmish has to have an exotic ending with whistles, T’s and ejections.
I’ve watched that replay a bunch and posted the video in the game thread.I initially thought that it was intentional to hurt or impede. On the replay I do think it's quite possible Poole was trying to defend himself. What I am not clear on is why a very dangerous trip becomes ok because part of your intent may have been to protect yourself---it still is a very dangerous play, and it still impacted the play on the floor. I guess that is why they didn't call a technical (so, interpretation of 'protecting himself' means it was not 'unreasonable' contact and thus not a technical?)
Ultimately Mark Jackson to me had it right---he did trip White. It was clearly intentional (he did not just reach up, he reaches for and his hands try to grab the leg). Whether his intent was to harm or impede or protect himself, that's a lot of contact in a dangerous situation.
Why would I have a bias? I’m a Celtics fan. I initiallly made a comment last night joking about what the game thread must look like for what I felt was an obvious and easy no-call even on review.I never said he should get ejected but your "recollection" is showing your bias. Either that or you're making things up in an attempt to strengthen your argument. Just because others might have a bias doesn't mean you do not.
Oh that’s different. Immediate ejection and 6-game suspension.What about trying to Pants the Guy?
So stopping a fast break for nothing was okay? It cost the Cs momentum and points after a great White block.Why would I have a bias? I’m a Celtics fan. I initiallly made a comment last night joking about what the game thread must look like for what I felt was an obvious and easy no-call even on review.
Oh that’s different. Immediate ejection and 6-game suspension.
You just described preferential treatment. Dray even admitted after the game that he gets it.Unquestionably. It’s going to have to be pretty egregious for him to get tossed out of an NBA Finals game though and he knows this.
I was referring to the Draymond play being an easy non-call but the Poole play certainly could have been too but at game speed it did look like a tackle. Still, I had already stated last night that the whistle was a bad mistake as it penalized the Celtics…….which maybe was the purpose of it. If a ref is working to alter the natural result that is an innocuous way of doing so. Refs way of giving a take foul.So stopping a fast break for nothing was okay? It cost the Cs momentum and points after a great White block.
and Poole grabbed a player from the floor who was trying to run up court, ‘easy non call’ is disingenuous
Yup. He’s not making it through one of these next two games and I would put my money on Game 3.I’d take the over Draymond offensive fouls at 1.5 in game 3. And over 5.5 fouls…
Preferential treatment to all players. You’d have to commit one heck of an act to get tossed from a Finals game compared to a ref simply being annoyed with a player when he’s having a bad personal night so he’ll toss him.You just described preferential treatment. Dray even admitted after the game that he gets it.
They did this a few times in game 2 with zero calls. Even the ones that didn’t require embellishment weren’t called. Perhaps game 3 is different.As much as I hate it, Grant and others might have to do a 24-hour intensive at Kyle Lowry’s Acting School for Sketchy Shit (ASSS), with specific focus on Histrionic Foul Embellishment and Flopping for Whistles.
When Draymond decides to be a lead blocker, every player he touches should go flying. When he sets a pick, snap back, scream, fall down, roll around, ask the nearest ref to tell your mama you love her and gesture to the bench for a priest to give last rites.
If, as we were told in the earlier rounds, they’re not going to call it unless a body hits the floor, then hit the fucking floor and see what the refs do.
And if they don’t do anything, put Green on the floor.
The Rodman comp has crossed my mind before.They did this a few times in game 2 with zero calls. Even the ones that didn’t require embellishment weren’t called. Perhaps game 3 is different.
was thinking about this today.. has Draymond basically turned his game into a more vocal Dennis Rodman with less rebounding?
You and others who support this policy are putting blame/responsibility on the refs to not make consistent calls due to game situation when the onus should be on Draymond Green to not commit technical fouls in certain game situations (which, by the way, are of his own making). When a player gets a tech, they should have to be really fucking careful the rest of the game - that's their fault for getting a T in the first place. There are players who get a handful of Ts in their entire careers, so it's not like this is an impossible standard to set. The way it is today allows players like Green to make careers out of getting away with dirty and unsportsmanlike play.Preferential treatment to all players. You’d have to commit one heck of an act to get tossed from a Finals game compared to a ref simply being annoyed with a player when he’s having a bad personal night so he’ll toss him.
Don't have to back that far. Lowry basically spent the last series hacking guys, fouling them while in the air compromised, yanking two different guys' arms out of their sockets. Refs didn't call shit, so he did more and more of it.The Rodman comp has crossed my mind before.
"It’s not that I’m saying they necessarily treat me different. I’ve earned differential treatment. I enjoy that. I embrace that."Preferential treatment to all players. You’d have to commit one heck of an act to get tossed from a Finals game compared to a ref simply being annoyed with a player when he’s having a bad personal night so he’ll toss him.
It’s like playing with five personal fouls.. you should have to change the way you act and play.. not be rewarded for it.You and others who support this policy are putting blame/responsibility on the refs to not make consistent calls due to game situation when the onus should be on Draymond Green to not commit technical fouls in certain game situations (which, by the way, are of his own making). When a player gets a tech, they should have to be really fucking careful the rest of the game - that's their fault for getting a T in the first place. There are players who get a handful of Ts in their entire careers, so it's not like this is an impossible standard to set. The way it is today allows players like Green to make careers out of getting away with dirty and unsportsmanlike play.
Rodman and Green are more talented players at this point.. Lowry is toast and has no other part of his game left other than floppingDon't have to back that far. Lowry basically spent the last series hacking guys, fouling them while in the air compromised, yanking two different guys' arms out of their sockets. Refs didn't call shit, so he did more and more of it.
Gotta treat this series like it's on the playground without refs. Because that's how it's being called.
He spent a whole series hacking the shit out of everyone and helping to extend it to 7 games, so it seems relevant.Rodman and Green are more talented players at this point.. Lowry is toast and has no other part of his game left other than flopping
Any player who pushes the envelope, and is good at it, has an enormous advantage. Lowry is another. I don’t know what 3 or 4 technical foul acts you’re referring to bc that seems ridiculous but during the course of a game he absolutely gains an advantage with the way he plays just like a Lowry and some others do."It’s not that I’m saying they necessarily treat me different. I’ve earned differential treatment. I enjoy that. I embrace that."
Dray did 3 or 4 things in the first half that would often be called technicals. Plus tackling 2 Celtics players while the Warriors were on offense which resulted in a net of 1 defensive foul. Please try and argue how he doesn't get different treatment. He knows because of his history of getting tossed from a finals game which likely swung the series winner and caused a lot of controversy that the league doesn't want that to happen again so he can get away with almost anything.
Yeah.. my point wasn’t just about the fouling. I think Green was a very talented player who has reduced his game to being a bully and an irritant. He could have been better but thinks his role is to be the guy that instigates instead. I don’t think Lowry has the potential to be more than what he is at this point.He spent a whole series hacking the shit out of everyone and helping to extend it to 7 games, so it seems relevant.
This twitter account makes North Korean news media say 'A bit too biased don;t you think'This is completely normal and not disrespectful and bullying at all. I guess Jaylen should have given him a pedicure.
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/CelticsRiley/status/1533657203529371648/photo/1
Lowry’s a different case. I think he’s awful to watch (honestly he’s everything wrong with basketball in my opinion) but I don’t think he’s officiated differently when it comes to technical fouls.Any player who pushes the envelope, and is good at it, has an enormous advantage. Lowry is another. I don’t know what 3 or 4 technical foul acts you’re referring to bc that seems ridiculous but during the course of a game he absolutely gains an advantage with the way he plays just like a Lowry and some others do.
The perception of Rodman by the general public, by announcing crews, and by the officials was way more negative in terms of how they viewed his more, uh, provocative plays, I think? And this is coming from someone who generally loved watching Rodman play.The Rodman comp has crossed my mind before.
At the very least have Grant give Green the full Dray and kick him in the cajones.If I'm Ime, I start Game 3 with Grant Williams pummeling the fuck out of Draymond up and down the court for the first 5 minutes of the game. I don't even care if he picks up 3-4 fouls. Just send that dickhead a message that it's going to be a LONG night for him.
Maybe the sharps have an advantage with the ref fixing and the retail gamblers are gonna gamble regardless.While I've always held the belief that there is some internal discussion to coax out longer series, we had an ex NBA referee come out and basically say as much last night. It got me thinking, with gambling now legal and the NBA partnering and taking ad revenue from these companies, wouldn't it be considered collusion to make even slightest change on the outcome? Before I would think they could claim they are an entertainment company, and they wanted to bring the people more entertainment/long series. Now they are taking huge amounts of gambling money, that argument doesn't fly anymore. Hell, I wonder if picking the refs game to game wouldn't be considered fixing games. I may be completely wrong on how the laws work, but that's sure what I'm seeing here if they are effecting the outcomes of playoff games
This would be very satisfying, but I think Curry and co. benefit from the Draymond distractions because they’re so used to it. So Grant might as well kick himself in the balls. That said, what are the chances Draymond crosses the line at some point this series and actually loses his shit? Can we get KG to coach Grant’s insults up over the next 32 hours? ‘Sheed?At the very least have Grant give Green the full Dray and kick him in the cajones.
How would this be any different than Boxing or UFC where you also have 3 individuals, who may have an interest in the result, determining who wins and who loses? The difference in the NBA playoffs, and especially The Finals, is that anyone paying attention knows which side the bias with be on.While I've always held the belief that there is some internal discussion to coax out longer series, we had an ex NBA referee come out and basically say as much last night. It got me thinking, with gambling now legal and the NBA partnering and taking ad revenue from these companies, wouldn't it be considered collusion to make even slightest change on the outcome? Before I would think they could claim they are an entertainment company, and they wanted to bring the people more entertainment/long series. Now they are taking huge amounts of gambling money, that argument doesn't fly anymore. Hell, I wonder if picking the refs game to game wouldn't be considered fixing games. I may be completely wrong on how the laws work, but that's sure what I'm seeing here if they are effecting the outcomes of playoff games
I understand what you’re saying, but with the legal gambling aspect added, I don’t think we can use past experiences. Honestly I think it will take one court challenge to blow it all up. Really surprised this hasn’t happened yetHow would this be any different than Boxing or UFC where you also have 3 individuals, who may have an interest in the result, determining who wins and who loses? The difference in the NBA playoffs, and especially The Finals, is that anyone paying attention knows which side the bias with be on.
My point is that these scenarios exist every weekend all over the world in sports betting. Should I even mention Japanese soccer VAR officials?
This happens in every sport. What is NFL offensive holding? An experienced veteran understands what he can and can’t get away with better than a rookie his first couple go arounds. Do you disagree with this?I seriously dont have any idea what your promoting @HomeRunBaker
I mean it sounds like we shouldnt have any rules. We should let Refs just make it up as it goes along.
"I dont like Browns haircut tonight. FOUL!"
"I like that Grant Williams....always smiling. He cant have meant to decapitate that guy on the drive".
Is that what we are reduced to? WhateverTF prefential treatment the Refs want to give is a-ok?
The clear and obvious difference is that Theis is not especially good at what he does whereas Green is elite. People do this all the time in discounting prime-Harden and LeBrons ability to create angles and draw fouls while wondering why then 22-yr old Jayson Tatum didn’t get those same calls. It’s bc they aren’t the same calls……one has an elite level in understanding how to use their body to draw a whistle while the young player doesn’t. It works the same way defensively.But (Afaik) a veteren LG doesnt get Less holding calls then a rookie RT. Sure on every play you could call it. But thats what makes NFL refs seemingly better then NBA refs. Their calls are usually not an interruption to game flow. (for the most part).
And Sure game context matters.
But I guarantee were a Veteren Safety to head hunt on a specific play they would call a personal Foul. They would later call offsetting Personal fouls if that same Safety grabbed a Facemask during an altercation. They wouldnt wave it away because it was Rodney Harrison.
Last I saw Theis was veteran or certainly on the verge of being a veteran and he doesnt get any calls.
Can you define "Veteran" or is that, like the enforcement of rules, ambiguous?
I wonder if part of the leagues rationale for this is to make their officials less prone to being tampered with or otherwise influenced by outside parties for a particular game?Have I mentioned that it is unbelievable that the NBA won't announce its refs until the morning of each game?
Reffing basketball is harder, much harder. Almost all baseball plays are easy yes/no decisions.I think that the perception of NBA officiating to the fans is much, much worse than it is for other sports.
I mean, Bill Burr went on a talk show on national TV and had a whole bit about how it’s not worth watching the first 3 quarters of an NBA game because the refs will do whatever they can to keep the game close. Obviously that’s an exaggeration for entertainment but it’s not a great look that someone can do that bit on national tv and think that the audience will all understand
I believe this is the reason. But I think it’s kind of dumb because it can very easily be thwarted.I wonder if part of the leagues rationale for this is to make their officials less prone to being tampered with or otherwise influenced by outside parties for a particular game?
I will suggest that perhaps there is some bias involved in suggesting:I guess thats were I would differ with many of you. If Draymond Green is a "Star" then Why Not JT or JB? How many games have other Stars fouled out of this playoffs?
Draymond is not a Star. He is not one of the 32 or even 64 best bastketball players on the planet. I would also contend that driving to the hoop and using your body (ala Butler) is much different then what Green or Lowry are doing.
It seems like we are trying to say that "We need to live with Giannis getting the Giannis treatment" except we are not talking about Giannis or Lebron. We arent talking about a flying drive to the hoop that ends in a thunderous dunk and 1. We are talking about Draymond Green. We are talking about tackling multiple players. We are talking about trying to pull down pants. We are talking about bordering or crossing into Dirty play.
Plus even when the staunchest "Stars get star treatment" like at the end of the Bucks series was like "uhhhh Yeaaahhhhh Giannis is going a little overboard."
Arguing "Well its hard" doesnt sit well with me. You whats hard? Making up degrees of rules your gonna enforce. Whats hard is explaining why when One player does something he is allowed. When another does it he is called for a trangression. Thats hard.
I can see we wont agree. And I admit that many of you advocating that Green is "in the right" are alot more knowledgeable about the NBA then I am.
But that doesnt make it a good thing. Or something that the NBA shouldnt be trying to fix. As mentioned above.....when casual fans are like "WTF..I guess I dont understand the game"....you have a problem. Because Sports dont want YOU as fans. They want ALL the fans.
Might be an interesting discussion about why Baseball and football have dominated popularity over the last 100 years......while basketball and hockey which are are much more arbitrary in their enforcement of rules always plays second, third or fourth fiddle.
Nobody is denying the G2 officiating atrocities I was speaking more in generalities.There were no angles on Green’s non called fouls. He tackled Grant, he ran down the court and pushed 3 guys like he was fullback, he grabbed Jaylen’s arm with 2 hands to “force” a turnover. Show me the angles he created because they were all ridiculously obvious to anyone paying attention.
Edit: And I don’t blame Draymond. The refs let him do it so he took advantage. The refs were a joke with how Green was officiated last game.