76ers: 2020-2021 thread

Silverdude2167

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Philly may not add anything at the trade deadline but Boston needs to deepen its bench and has they money to do it. The bench was exposed last night because Tatum was out and Pritchard got hurt.
This is a poor statement...name me a team without their #1 and let's say #6 whose bench would not be exposed. Take away Embiid and Thybulle and you think Philly's bench would not be "exposed"
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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He’s the best backup center Philly has had since Embiid arrived.
As I said in Wed's game thread, we've forgotten about Average Al already? I know Doris has.

Embiid is shooting 60% in 2Ps and 40% on 3Ps, which are career highs by a margin. I'm not convinced this is just because has better shooters around him (I mean that wouldn;t matter at all on 3Ps.) If he continues to shoot like that he's a MVP candidate and PHI are contenders.

If he regresses towards his career #s, PHI going to have some rough games.

Will be interesting to watch.
 

Silverdude2167

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Did you absorb what I wrote before posting?
You said the bench was exposed because two top six players were missing and they need to deepen the bench to prevent that from being an issue. There is no way to deepen the bench to offset those losses + Kemba being on a minute's restrictions.

If Embid was out, Thybulle got injured and Simmions was on a minute's restriction would you think that Philly needs to deepen their bench?

In an ideal world, you would always like to be able to trust the next man up, but that is not a reality in the NBA.
 

terrynever

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As I said in Wed's game thread, we've forgotten about Average Al already? I know Doris has.

Embiid is shooting 60% in 2Ps and 40% on 3Ps, which are career highs by a margin. I'm not convinced this is just because has better shooters around him (I mean that wouldn;t matter at all on 3Ps.) If he continues to shoot like that he's a MVP candidate and PHI are contenders.

If he regresses towards his career #s, PHI going to have some rough games.

Will be interesting to watch.
Yeah, Embiid and Harris hardly missed last night. I think they were a combined 20-for-26. The five starters shot 67 percent from the floor. They will certainly regress. But if you are Brad Stevens, you worry about your defense allowing so many easy looks. The ESPN mics got him imploring his players to belly up on defense, get closer, and sometimes they did.

Embiid has a great shooting touch for someone his size but he has been known to shoot 5-for-20 against Marc Gasol, his No. 1 nemesis.
 

terrynever

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You said the bench was exposed because two top six players were missing and they need to deepen the bench to prevent that from being an issue. There is no way to deepen the bench to offset those losses + Kemba being on a minute's restrictions.

If Embid was out, Thybulle got injured and Simmions was on a minute's restriction would you think that Philly needs to deepen their bench?

In an ideal world, you would always like to be able to trust the next man up, but that is not a reality in the NBA.
I never used the “top six” phrase. My point was Boston was missing its best player, and Pritchard. Is he the Sixth Man? I have not followed the Celts enough to give him that role. You guys know your team better. You tell me. That’s what we are here for, to learn from each other.

Embiid has missed three games so far and dozens more in recent years. 76ers are not very good without him. If he goes down, Philly barely makes the playoffs. So we live with that reality, a superstar who has knee and back issues that flare up occasionally. Doc rested Embiid last weekend just so he would be fresh for Boston.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Yeah, Embiid and Harris hardly missed last night. I think they were a combined 20-for-26. The five starters shot 67 percent from the floor. They will certainly regress. But if you are Brad Stevens, you worry about your defense allowing so many easy looks. The ESPN mics got him imploring his players to belly up on defense, get closer, and sometimes they did.

Embiid has a great shooting touch for someone his size but he has been known to shoot 5-for-20 against Marc Gasol, his No. 1 nemesis.
Agree that Cs defense hasn't been good for 3 games now and Brad has said the same thing. Also they are getting killed on the boards. But I think BOS will play better on D. Particularly Marcus.
 

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Embiid has to be the league MVP if the season ended today, right? Best player on a #1 seed, and his numbers crush LeBron’s and Giannis’s.
 

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Embiid has to be the league MVP if the season ended today, right? Best player on a #1 seed, and his numbers crush LeBron’s and Giannis’s.
Sounds right. Embiid is balling. Durant would have to be in the conversation as well. He is off to a hot start but I think best player on the #1 seed carries weight.
 

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Embiid has to be the league MVP if the season ended today, right? Best player on a #1 seed, and his numbers crush LeBron’s and Giannis’s.
I hope Doc can keep Joel’s head where it is right now. Funny how playing for a former player changed the outlook of this team, especially the top three guys. Brett Brown had too much baggage from the tanking years. Doc comes in and suddenly these guys are playing like a team and not focusing on awards. Morey made the shooter moves that Elton Brand could not make in his two seasons running the personnel dept.

Is Philly built to last an entire season? Doc has to take care of Joel, nurse him along. Top seed not that big a deal with no home court advantage, no fans. MVP is for after the season ends.
 

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Celtics were sloppy with the dribble last night. Simmons and Thybulle both have long arms and were able to poke the ball free from behind. Thybulle had his best game of the season, as did Harris. Simmons got pretty frisky on offense once the game had been decided. He finally finished on drives instead of dishing off.

Philly may not add anything at the trade deadline but Boston needs to deepen its bench and has they money to do it. The bench was exposed last night because Tatum was out and Pritchard got hurt. Howard boxed out Jaylen, who fell on Pritch. Howard is very physical, it goes without saying. His 11 rebounds and two blocks were big on a night when Embiid got into foul trouble early. He’s the best backup center Philly has had since Embiid arrived.

Boston had a temporary answer to its big man problem last night when Theis and Williams were on the court together. Celts need to find a way to guard Embiid now that Philly has shooters around the big guy. These are not last year’s Sixers.
I wouldn't dismiss Simmons 4th Q as "game had been decided". C's were within 3 with 4 to go when Simmons scored or assisted on the next 10 Philly points to blow the game open. He was the difference maker down the stretch.
 

benhogan

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I wouldn't dismiss Simmons 4th Q as "game had been decided". C's were within 3 with 4 to go when Simmons scored or assisted on the next 10 Philly points to blow the game open. He was the difference maker down the stretch.
Semi & Grant were very capable of guarding Simmons. and Brad learned that over these two games. I wouldn't be surprised if Romeo (when he returns) is capable of shutting Simmons completely down

Marcus needs to get in shape and start playing his "All-NBA" D again, he can barely move out there (may have something wrong with his shoulder)

Saying the Celtics need bench help when TL just came back from COVID, Kemba on a minutes restriction, PP out after 2 minutes and Tatum out for 2 weeks is kind of funny. BUT the truth is they have a $28MM TPE + picks + young players + TT filler to solve any problem Danny has when the sellers emerge from their early-season optimism.

ALSO Tristan Thompson made Embiid look like Wilt over 2 nights. He's officially my 3rd string Center. Fuck him, his fat ass, the Kardashians, Rich Paul and Klutch. Not liking that signing one iota.
 
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terrynever

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And Philly has not played Milwaukee yet. They have Jrue Holliday now, a great two-way player who makes me think of Marcus Smart and what he can still become. I guess Philly will put Danny Green on him first, and maybe have Ben float over to double. Ben’s best value comes as a versatile defensive tool for Doc to employ. Jaylen was so good these past two games that Ben might have fouled out early if he covered him all game. Brown destroyed Danny Green to the point where Doc put Thybulle on Brown.

Chilidawg is right, too, about Ben breaking the game open last night with his rare burst of offense. Doc is going to remind him of that every day.

Sixers at Detroit tonight. Might be time to rest Embiid!
 
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Cesar Crespo

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Lol the Celtics are not a sub-500 team without Tatum. People need to chill.
No, but I doubt they are much better. Maybe a couple games over .500. A lot of it would also depend on Kemba but this team relies heavily on the Jays.
 

chilidawg

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terrynever

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76ers outlast Detroit 114-110. Another monster game for Embiid (33 and 14) but Simmons was the real story, making 10 of 12 FTs as he kept going to the hoop. Only 7 shots, made 5.
 

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Even without fans, the Sixers home/road split is starting to develop again:

Home: 9-1
Road: 3-5

I think Embiid sat out about 3 of those road losses so too much noise in the data right now but I’ll be keeping an eye on this.
 

terrynever

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Even without fans, the Sixers home/road split is starting to develop again:

Home: 9-1
Road: 3-5

I think Embiid sat out about 3 of those road losses so too much noise in the data right now but I’ll be keeping an eye on this.
12-2 with Embiid, 0-4 without him.
10-0 when starting regular lineup.
Doc is aware of this team’s problems on the road, especially shooting the ball. Curry went 2-for-10 from the floor last night. Simmons got into early foul trouble covering former Sixer Jeremi Grant, who is averaging 24 ppg for Detroit in a breakout season. Blake Griffin made a rare appearance on the floor last night.
Pistons played with more energy and that translated into a 38-20 edge at the FT line.
In this season without fans, top seed in the conference doesn’t have the same pull as normal. Most contenders seem more concerned with the lack of continuity caused by COVID issues.
Philly hosts Lakers on Wednesday evening.
 

terrynever

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Lakers-Sixers ready to tip off. My pregame thought is Marc Gasol has been Embiid’s nemesis on offense. Let’s see if that carries over. Sixers need help from almost everyone tonight to win this one. LeBron looks like he is in a mood to teach someone a lesson.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Lakers-Sixers ready to tip off. My pregame thought is Marc Gasol has been Embiid’s nemesis on offense. Let’s see if that carries over. Sixers need help from almost everyone tonight to win this one. LeBron looks like he is in a mood to teach someone a lesson.
Has Embiid always hit the floor this much or is this a new thing this year? Got another 13 FTs tonight. But he goes to the floor so much and/or initiating contact to try to draw fouls I wonder if his body can hold up all season.

I have to admit, Harris played great tonight plus he had the game winner. Seems like Doc knows the secrets of unlocking his game.
 

terrynever

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Has Embiid always hit the floor this much or is this a new thing this year? Got another 13 FTs tonight. But he goes to the floor so much and/or initiating contact to try to draw fouls I wonder if his body can hold up all season.

I have to admit, Harris played great tonight plus he had the game winner. Seems like Doc knows the secrets of unlocking his game.
Embiid told Philly reporters last year that it is often easier on his back for him to go down to the floor rather than try to stop and stay upright. Watching him tonight, you often see Embiid fall and then lay there, stretching out. No question his back is the key to Philly’s season. They are not very good without him. OTOH, Anthony Davis seems to be battling a knee injury. LeBron is 35, 36 years old. Health is an issue for almost everyone.
Dwight Howard was awful tonight and that led to Embiid playing 38 minutes. Too many, even for a big game. Doc played four of his five starters at least 36 minutes and they looked and played tired at the end. Lakers had more energy, especially Caruso and Schroeder.
You are right about Harris. His numbers so far resemble his nearly two seasons with Doc in LA. Suddenly his contract doesn’t look terrible.
Free throws were pretty even tonight, 26-25. Good teams go to the line.
 

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The 76ers played 10 players for at least 18 minutes in Sunday night’s comeback win over Indy. Outscored the Pacers 31-5 in final 9 minutes after assistant coach Dan Burke switched to a 2-3 zone defense. Thybulle got his hand on 11 balls in the game with four steals, two blocks and five deflections. In 25 minutes. Korkmaz poured in 17 points off the bench. Howard had 15 rebounds off the bench.
In recent years, Philly was in trouble when it went to the second team. No more. You get better one move at a time, and sometimes it takes guys like Thybulle and Korkmaz a couple years to develop.

View: https://twitter.com/pompeyonsixers/status/1356102230886244353?s=21
 

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terrynever

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Zone defense is the new black!
Pacers just totally panicked when they saw zone with those two long-armed guys out front. Coaches have to find time in practice to remind their players how to handle it. But who really practices now? The schedule provides hardly any time for an off-day practice.
 

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Two interesting quotes from Tobias Harris and Doc Rivers about using the zone in an empty arena where coaches and players can communicate more easily.

“One thing I know about the zone today, it got us really talking out there defensively,” Harris said. “On the defensive end we gotta talk more, and that was a catalyst to that tonight. Being out there, getting in a zone, and no one really knowing how to play a real zone, but at the same time we were communicating ourselves through it.”

Rivers, too, emphasized the communication, saying, “Two things helped a ton: that the defense was in front of our bench, so guys could hear the coaches and everyone talking. And that there was no crowd, so we could hear each other talking. Because zone takes a lot of communication, and I thought our guys did a great job.”
 

benhogan

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Good story on the 2-3 zone defense Philly sprung on Indy last night with Simmons and Thybulle out front. Thybulle had 4 steals, all in final quarter.
Sixers hardly practice a zone, maybe “five minutes“ at end of shootarounds. Hard to implement stuff in a Covid season.

https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/philadelphia-76ers-zone-defense-ben-simmons-20210201.html
Thybulle and Simmons on the top of a 2-3 with Howard or Embiid playing rim protection is almost perfect. Besides the good defense, you can expect a bunch of runout dunks for MT/BS.

Brad has been experimenting with Tatum up top with Smart, once Brad goes with Tatum/Brown up top they will be deadly
 

terrynever

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Thybulle and Simmons on the top of a 2-3 with Howard or Embiid playing rim protection is almost perfect. Besides the good defense, you can expect a bunch of runout dunks for MT/BS.

Brad has been experimenting with Tatum up top with Smart, once Brad goes with Tatum/Brown up top they will be deadly
NBA would be more interesting if coaches experimented more on defense. College coaches do it all the time, or at least they did in normal times. Stevens could put a great defensive unit out there that might offset rebounding issues if hidden in a zone.

What’s Boston’s best defensive group?
 

benhogan

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NBA would be more interesting if coaches experimented more on defense. College coaches do it all the time, or at least they did in normal times. Stevens could put a great defensive unit out there that might offset rebounding issues if hidden in a zone.

What’s Boston’s best defensive group?
Nick Nurse has done great work with zones.

Best Celtic defense? Tatum, Smart, Theis, Brown (who I criticize often but will get there eventually) and Grant (Romeo in his place when healthy). Greene could be interesting in the 2-3. TimeLord will be special if he stays healthy and gets the minutes, seems like he is just about to pop.

Thybulle going nutz at the top doesn't surprise me. I've been a Cuse fan for 4 decades, and Thybulle's college coach, Mike Hopkins, was a Cuse zone believer. Simmons/MT will lead the league in steals if they go with it more.

Spoelstra, really tweaked his 2-3 last year by playing Butler and Derrick Jones Jr at the top with Herro/Duncan on the backline.

The key to the 2-3 working
1. going with long-armed guys at the top
2. limit paint touches by not permitting dribble penetration
3. shot-blocker in the middle
4. wings come up and deny the 3pt line
If the opponent passes around the perimeter you got them

Watch-out for: opponents getting paint touches, drawing the zone in, and then kick-outs for step-in 3pointers
 

terrynever

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Nick Nurse has done great work with zones.

Best Celtic defense? Tatum, Smart, Theis, Brown (who I criticize often but will get there eventually) and Grant (Romeo in his place when healthy). Greene could be interesting in the 2-3. TimeLord will be special if he stays healthy and gets the minutes, seems like he is just about to pop.

Thybulle going nutz at the top doesn't surprise me. I've been a Cuse fan for 4 decades, and Thybulle's college coach, Mike Hopkins, was a Cuse zone believer. Simmons/MT will lead the league in steals if they go with it more.

Spoelstra, really tweaked his 2-3 last year by playing Butler and Derrick Jones Jr at the top with Herro/Duncan on the backline.

The key to the 2-3 working
1. going with long-armed guys at the top
2. limit paint touches by not permitting dribble penetration
3. shot-blocker in the middle
4. wings come up and deny the 3pt line
If the opponent passes around the perimeter you got them

Watch-out for: opponents getting paint touches, drawing the zone in, and then kick-outs for step-in 3pointers
I remember covering Penn State-Syracuse hoop games in college. Roy Danforth told me “they went through our zone like shit through a sieve.” Working for the student paper in 1971, I used that quote word for word and heard from nobody. Danforth probably got his zone from Harry Litwack of Temple but every coach put his own stamp on the zone. Which is why the zone would be cool in the NBA, if only used in key stretches. Brogdon and McConnell had no clue last night, just dribbling right into Simmons and Thybulle every time down the court. In 15 possessions, Pacers managed 8 points.

Is the NBA a copycat league, like, say, the NFL? My guess is you need the personnel to pull the zone off, and an element of surprise, plus lack of preparation from your opponent.
 
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benhogan

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I remember covering Penn State-Syracuse hoop games in college. Roy Danforth told me “they went through our zone like shit through a sieve.” Working for the student paper in 1971, I used that quote word for word and heard from nobody. Danforth probably got his zone from Harry Litwack of Temple but every coach put his own stamp on the zone. Which is why the zone would be cool in the NBA, if only used in key stretches. Brogdon and McConnell had no clue last night, just dribbling right into Simmons and Thybulle every time down the court. In 15 possessions, Pacers managed 8 points.

Is the NBA a copycat league, like, say, the NFL? My guess is you need the personnel to pull the zone off, and an element of surprise, plus lack of preparation from your opponent.
wow, Roy Danforth, that even predates my grade school fandom of the Louie and Bouie Show.

I ended up working with and befriending a guy that played for Nova. My buddy said Rolle Massimino sarcastically called Jim Boeheim's zone, the Hands Up Harry Defense. My friend, who was a great shooter, beat the Cuse 4x in the Carrier Dome and said he loved shooting against it.
 

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wow, Roy Danforth, that even predates my grade school fandom of the Louie and Bouie Show.

I ended up working with and befriending a guy that played for Nova. My buddy said Rolle Massimino sarcastically called Jim Boeheim's zone, the Hands Up Harry Defense. My friend, who was a great shooter, beat the Cuse 4x in the Carrier Dome and said he loved shooting against it.
I think that it's working now with long guys on top taking away little guys' shots and eating passing lanes. I don't think that it's a wildcat gimmick if you have the personnel. Miami and Philly certainly do. So do we.
 

terrynever

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wow, Roy Danforth, that even predates my grade school fandom of the Louie and Bouie Show.

I ended up working with and befriending a guy that played for Nova. My buddy said Rolle Massimino sarcastically called Jim Boeheim's zone, the Hands Up Harry Defense. My friend, who was a great shooter, beat the Cuse 4x in the Carrier Dome and said he loved shooting against it.
I thought you would like that. Roy left Syracuse of his own volition ... for Tulane! Boeheim took over. I saw one road game in Manley and it was the craziest crowd I ever saw. Penn State had a great player named Ron Brown from NYC who beat out Dennis Duval for Sophomore of the Year in the ECAC. Ron added a few pounds in the off-season and Syracuse fans chanted “Ha, Ha, Fat Albert!” all night. Blowout win for SU. What a venue. Fans right on top of the court.
 

terrynever

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I think that it's working now with long guys on top taking away little guys' shots and eating passing lanes. I don't think that it's a wildcat gimmick if you have the personnel. Miami and Philly certainly do. So do we.
The pandemic has created some positive changes in our lives along with death and isolation. If it brings back the zone, that would be fun.
 

Jimbodandy

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The pandemic has created some positive changes in our lives along with death and isolation. If it brings back the zone, that would be fun.
I agree brother. It's another fascinating wrinkle to pandemic ball. I think that the benefits to guys' bodies with all of these B2Bs is pretty meaningful too, but just really looking forward to seeing how teams implement and also break it down.
 

terrynever

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I agree brother. It's another fascinating wrinkle to pandemic ball. I think that the benefits to guys' bodies with all of these B2Bs is pretty meaningful too, but just really looking forward to seeing how teams implement and also break it down.
Celts could probably get more D out of Kemba in a zone. Sometimes you can hide a bad defender in a zone. Same for Philly with Seth Curry.
 

benhogan

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I thought you would like that. Roy left Syracuse of his own volition ... for Tulane! Boeheim took over. I saw one road game in Manley and it was the craziest crowd I ever saw. Penn State had a great player named Ron Brown from NYC who beat out Dennis Duval for Sophomore of the Year in the ECAC. Ron added a few pounds in the off-season and Syracuse fans chanted “Ha, Ha, Fat Albert!” all night. Blowout win for SU. What a venue. Fans right on top of the court.
great stuff, very jealous that you made it to Manley. ECAC - good memory. Who was in that? Penn State... was St Bonaventure? Nova? Providence? BC? Seton hall? Can't recall

Penn State was always the big game on Cuse's football schedule back then (until PSU cut us off). I was in grade school when I went to a Penn St vs Syracuse football game at the Meadowlands. Little Joe Morris was Cuse's star RB. Curt Warner was in a different league. Nittany Lions destroyed them, as usual.
 

terrynever

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great stuff, very jealous that you made it to Manley. ECAC - good memory. Who was in that? Penn State... was St Bonaventure? Nova? Providence? BC? Seton hall? Can't recall

Penn State was always the big game on Cuse's football schedule back then (until PSU cut us off). I was in grade school when I went to a Penn St vs Syracuse football game at the Meadowlands. Little Joe Morris was Cuse's star RB. Curt Warner was in a different league. Nittany Lions destroyed them, as usual.
I grew up when Syracuse went from Jim Brown to Ernie Davis, and Floyd Little. Schwartzwalder tapped the Black pipeline before Penn State did. Paterno was the young gun who redirected the pipeline.
The ECAC combined Ivy League, plus the “big” D-1 programs, and smaller schools like Lehigh and Navy. It was a league for all sports, not just the big ones.
Penn State wanted to go national in 1974 and started to gradually break away. Pitt and West Virginia followed. This was the inevitable beginning of decentralizing conferences and forsaking old rivalries. Paterno saw how TV money would change college sports. ESPN accelerated those changes in the 1980s.
Most alumni of those schools miss the old rivalries. I used to drive to Syracuse, Army, Morgantown, Philly and Bethlehem (for Lehigh-PSU wrestling) in the 1970s. We drank with fans of opposing schools and usually ended up having a great time. Big Ten rivalries are nowhere close to the ECAC.
 
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terrynever

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Just a little 76ers update as they begin a four-game Western swing tomorrow night in Sacramento, followed by games with Portland, Phoenix and Utah. A split would suffice. Sacramento is playing well. Portland blew out the 76ers in Philly just last week. Phoenix is always a problem and Utah is one of the league’s best teams.
So how good is Philly? If they get three of four, pretty good. But that seems unlikely. The West is still a measuring stick for the Eastern pretenders.
Now back to regular programming. 76ers are still trying to figure things out.
 

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Ben Simmons might be playing the best hoops of his pro career right now, and over the last six weeks.

From the Athletic after last night’s win over Dallas:

Mavericks star Luka Doncic finished with just 19 points on 6-for-13 shooting, well below his season average of 28.9 points per game, and the fourth-fewest points he’s scored in a game this season. By my tally, Doncic scored just seven points on 3-for-9 shooting when he was defended by Simmons, compared with 12 points on 3-for-4 shooting when he was guarded by anybody else on the Sixers. He also committed five of his seven turnovers when Simmons was his primary defender.
 

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Simmons baseball passes to Embiid are amazing. If I am playing the 76ers, you absolutely have to account for that as it seems like they are going to it regularly. Its an easy two points when defenses aren't ready.
 

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Terry, I really appreciate the (nearly) game-by-game updates on how the Sixers are coming along.

Philly fans have to be thrilled with Doc and all the work players must be putting in.
 

terrynever

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Simmons baseball passes to Embiid are amazing. If I am playing the 76ers, you absolutely have to account for that as it seems like they are going to it regularly. Its an easy two points when defenses aren't ready.
Bill Russell was the first big man who ran the floor and caught TD passes. His speed was amazing. Embiid would be 20 feet behind Russ if they raced from half-court. And Russ is 86! Old joke, I know.