Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st degree murder; released by Patriots

[singaporesoxfan]

What 2010 murders? I thought the Boston murders were July 2012.

 
Well, Hernandez was involved in a massacre in Foxborough in 2010:
 
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201012060nwe.htm

 

[BroodsSexton]

I'm a bit out of my depth here, but ...

1) Residual exception is very narrowly construed in criminal cases, because hearsay in criminal cases is grounded in the confrontation clause, not just the rules of evidence. Given that there is an express exception for statements made by a murder victim who fears imminent death (Ma R Evid 804(b)(2)), I wouldn't think the residual exception is a back door to expand that exception when it is not otherwise

Good point Even if the witness were expected to testify that she understood it to be a warning, it's hard to make out "fear of imminent death." A careful judge might leave it out in any event to avoid some substantial prejudice if he were wrong. Sounds like there's enough tying Hernandez without it, but I suppose this is how a case gets chipped away.

I hate to think that if they do have admissibility concerns, that may tend to explain why it was a fact released early to the public.

 

[amarshal2]

Who says it's binary. Maybe he thinks it's 30-70 that he's going to get killed. If he says something to Hernandez and crew that indicates he suspects they may kill him, his chances of being killed may, in his mind, rise. Better to keep cool and show his potential killers that he is scared straight and intends to keep quiet about whatever it is Hernandez is fired up about.

What? If he thought there was a 30% chance they were going to kill him, the smart play would have been to tweet, "I think Aaron Hernandez is about to murder me #derangedTE #raylewiswannabe" Then he should have pointed the tweet out. It 100% ends their friendship but there is no way that raises the chance he is killed by AH that night.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

This breakdown has raised an interesting point.  I think the value of the statement to the prosecutor is that it places Lloyd with the posse at a critical time, not so much that he fears he's about to be killed.  The dead body they have, the car at the scene on or about the right time they seem to have, my guess is that the surveillance video is not clear as to passengers and amount of people in the vehicle.  So we may have a good 45 minutes or so where we know the whereabouts of the car, but the question of who is in that car isn't clear.  
 
The cell records seem to be more important from a location of where Lloyd is, when, and who he's with.  I understood hearsay years ago, I'll let those more current on it explain admissibility, but I think the probative value is location and with who rather than state of mind.

 

[glennhoffmania]

The "NFL" text is interesting.  I'm not sure it's admissible.  It's definitely hearsay.   The question is whether there's a hearsay exception.  The one likely to apply is the exception for a murder victim who is "under the belief of imminent death" about the "cause or circumstances" of the death.  If offered merely to show that the victim was in the car with Hernandez, it's a tough sell.  I think the prosecutor is going to have to come up with some evidence that at the time of the text the victim thought he was going to die and the text was specifically an attempt to identify the victim.  Sometimes, a hearsay statement is enough to show the applicability of an exception, "I'm in the car with Tom Brady and he's going to shoot me."  This one is too vague, I think, and if MA law is like that in other places, it's the prosecution's burden to show applicability of a hearsay exception.  So, they'll need someone in the car to testify, I think, to get the "NFL" text in -- unless they can find a non-hearsay purpose to offer it.

 
It's been a while since I even thought about the rules of evidence so I could be talking out of my ass but is this really even an issue?  What if he emailed his sister?  What if he left a note saying who he was with?  When all of this broke I never thought that the admissibility of the text would be an issue for the prosecution.

 

[smastroyin]

For the lawyers, I understand the interest in the technical discussion.  For everyone else, why does this text mean so much to you?  
 
I understand the fascination with what may have been running through Lloyd's mind that night, but I'm not sure his state of mind has any relevance to the case.  Are people still kind of hoping that this was all an accident, etc. and leaning on this text as evidence that Lloyd was just chilling out with the guys a few minutes prior to being shot in the back?  

 

[Steve Dillard]

Not for the truth of the matter asserted but to give victim's present spence impression. That is why prosecutor referenced the "temperature" in the car, because victim sensed danger. NFL and "just so you know" are not introduced for truth that NFL has some connection, but to show victim feared danger the minute he sent the text. Prosecutor can independently show NFL was there.

 

[Joe D Reid]

The cell records seem to be more important from a location of where Lloyd is, when, and who he's with.  I understood hearsay years ago, I'll let those more current on it explain admissibility, but I think the probative value is location and with who rather than state of mind.

 
I think you're exactly right. The hearsay rule only excludes the content of hearsay statements (IOW, you can't introduce to the statement to prove the truth of the matter asserted). Here, the content is that Lloyd was with "NFL".
 
But the rule doesn't prevent putting the statement into evidence to prove something other than its content.  So the text can be introduced to prove that a person with access to Lloyd's phone was in the car at a specific time, because the content of the text is not necessary to make that showing (the text could have said "ABC" and proved the same thing).
 
Of course, once the text is in, jurors tend to make their own conclusions about the import of the content.

 

[Shelterdog]

For the lawyers, I understand the interest in the technical discussion.  For everyone else, why does this text mean so much to you?  
 
I understand the fascination with what may have been running through Lloyd's mind that night, but I'm not sure his state of mind has any relevance to the case.  Are people still kind of hoping that this was all an accident, etc. and leaning on this text as evidence that Lloyd was just chilling out with the guys a few minutes prior to being shot in the back?  

 
Nah, everybody thinks that Hernandez is probably guilty as sin, it's just shop talk about an interesting document.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Does the fact that phone records or the data saved on the sister's phone contain the text matter?
 
Anyway, here's a law professor's take on the issue:

The prosecution needs a hearsay exception for the text, or a jury will never see it.  The requirement of authentication, the hurdle the prosecution is encountering in the Bradley Manning prosecution, is likely not a major obstacle here assuming testimony from Lloyd’s sister and, if necessary, the phone service provider, which likely would constitute “evidence sufficient to support a finding that the [text] is what its pro­ponent claims.”  Rule of Ev. 901; see also here.

 
As for the hearsay question, a strong argument can be made that the text fits the present sense impression exception for “[a] statement describing or explaining an event or condition, made while or immediately after the declarant perceived it.”  Fed. R. Evid. 803(1).  Lloyd’s alleged statement, essentially, “I am currently with [Hernandez]” fits.  See United States v. Murillo, 288 F.3d 1126, 1137 (9th Cir. 2002) (noting the defendant's concession that the statement “I'm with Diana...and Rico” was a present sense impression).

 
Unfortunately for prosecutors, Massachusetts is among the minority of States that has not adopted the present sense impression hearsay exception.  So the text is not coming in through that exception in a Massachusetts court, where Hernandez appears headed.  (The statement could be admitted in federal court in Massachusetts under the Federal Rules of Evidence.)

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

It's been a while since I even thought about the rules of evidence so I could be talking out of my ass but is this really even an issue?  What if he emailed his sister?  What if he left a note saying who he was with?  When all of this broke I never thought that the admissibility of the text would be an issue for the prosecution.

 
Same issue if it had been an e-mail or a note.  Either way it's hearsay.  Usually these get in, because there's a specific hearsay exception when a speaker is not available to testify in court (obviously the case with a murder victim) and the statement (note, text, letter, e-mail) was made with fear of imminent death.  The idea is that people who think they are about to die usually tell the truth, so the fact that you can't cross examine them in court is not a huge worry.  Usually, such a communication itself will establish that it was likely made with fear of imminent death -- my example above was "Tom Brady is about to kill me."  Here, the statement is vague, so the prosecutor will have to find another way to establish the victim's state of mind when the text was made.  Seems the most likely way to do that would be to have someone in the car testify -- although once you have that the text becomes a less significant piece of evidence.
 

I think you're exactly right. The hearsay rule only excludes the content of hearsay statements (IOW, you can't introduce to the statement to prove the truth of the matter asserted). Here, the content is that Lloyd was with "NFL".
 
But the rule doesn't prevent putting the statement into evidence to prove something other than its content.  So the text can be introduced to prove that a person with access to Lloyd's phone was in the car at a specific time, because the content of the text is not necessary to make that showing (the text could have said "ABC" and proved the same thing).
 
Of course, once the text is in, jurors tend to make their own conclusions about the import of the content.

 
If this is the sole theory of relevance -- put someone with access to that cell phone in the car at a particular time -- I think a careful judge would only let in the fact of the text, not its content.  Don't want to get reversed over this after a long trial, and I think the content of the text is cumulative of the cell records for that purpose.  But it's not an obvious issue one way or the other.  
 

Nah, everybody thinks that Hernandez is probably guilty as sin, it's just shop talk about an interesting document.

 
Yup.  Just an interesting (or maybe not!) discussion about what seemed to jump out a bit as the most chilling bit of evidence revealed by the prosecutor during the bail hearing.

 

[Monbo Jumbo]

Maybe Hernandez is smarter than anyone thinks.  The conversation in the car could have gone like this....
 
Minion - "Boss, should we take away his cell phone?"
 
AH - "Nah, anything he texts is hearsay."

 

[twibnotes]

What? If he thought there was a 30% chance they were going to kill him, the smart play would have been to tweet, "I think Aaron Hernandez is about to murder me #derangedTE #raylewiswannabe" Then he should have pointed the tweet out. It 100% ends their friendship but there is no way that raises the chance he is killed by AH that night.

That assumes Lloyd's state of mind is cool enough for him to make that calculation. My point is that he's not entirely sure what is going to happen. He doesn't want to seem hysterical, especially if Hernandez's beef is that Lloyd was talking loosely to the wrong people.

We don't know, of course, his exact state of mind. All I'm saying is that any text message short of "they're going to kill me" doesn't prove he thought he was going to be ok. There is plenty of gray area between "nothing to worry about" and "I'm about to be executed."

 

[RedOctober3829]

These kinds of stories will continue to leak out....
 

Aaron Hernandez' fiancée called cops on him just a few months ago when he punched a window in their house, and bled all over
the place ... TMZ has learned.  Sources tell us the incident went down at their rented home in Hermosa Beach, CA ... where Aaron and some
buddies were partying from 4 PM to 9 AM.

We're told when Hernandez and Shayanna Jenkins began arguing -- because she wanted to pull the plug on the party -- Hernandez put his fist through a window.  His hand was cut badly enough that there "was blood everywhere."  We're told Jenkins called police in a last ditch effort to break up the party.
Law enforcement sources tell us cops have been to the house multiple times -- and that Hernandez "had no regard" for anyone who complained about
his all-night parties.  The word neighbors keep using to describe him is ... "nightmare."

                        

http://www.tmz.com/2013/07/02/aaron-hernandez-party-animal-terrorized-neighbors-hermosa-beach-police/#ixzz2XuGgFDh0

 

 

[RedOctober3829]

As I said....
 
 

Tim Tebow tried to stop Aaron Hernandez from getting into a violent bar fight in 2007 while both were football players at the University of Florida, according to Gainesville police records.  Hernandez, then a 17-year-old freshman, punched a bouncer in the head causing a broken ear drum on April 28, 2007, according to the police report.  When a police officer could not  find Hernandez at the scene of the altercation around 1 a.m., the report  states he interviewed Tebow about it.  The report stated the following: A waitress at The Swamp bar allegedly brought Hernandez two "alcoholic drinks," which he consumed but refused to pay for. That's when Hernandez got into a fight with a bouncer at the bar.  Hernandez told police [bouncer Michael] Taphorn got in his face and began yelling at him. As Taphorn turned to walk away, Hernandez punched him in the side of the head. Taphorn declined medical treatment but the next day doctors discovered his right ear drum had burst and the injury would take four to six weeks to heal. When the officer could not find Hernandez immediately following the incident, he interviewed Tebow and Shaun Young. “Tebow stated that he witnessed the dispute,” the officer wrote. “… Tebow stated that he went over to try to help resolve the conflict.” Tebow went on to say he urged Hernandez to leave peacefully and tried to make arrangements to pay the bill. Two hours later, another officer found Hernandez and spoke with him about the incident. Tebow was present during the interview.

 

Hernandez told the officer both he and Tebow had already called then-UF football coach Urban Meyer and informed him about the incident. A day later, the investigator officer told Hernandez’s attorney, Huntley Johnson, he would not be pursuing charges in connection with alcohol served to minors at the restaurant, but he wrote, “it would be noted in the report so the coaches could handle it internally.”  Gainesville police recommended Hernandez be charged with a felony, but it is unclear how the case was resolved because all of Hernandez’s other juvenile records are sealed. However, Hernandez still end up punching the bouncer.

 
This guy has been enabled since college.  Urban Meyer, like a lot of other incidents down in Gainesville, swept it under the rug. 
 
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/gators/os-tim-tebow-aaron-hernandez-bar-fight-07022013,0,6747621.story

 

[Buck Showalter]

As I said....
 
 
 
 
This guy has been enabled since college.  Urban Meyer, like a lot of other incidents down in Gainesville, swept it under the rug. 
 
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/gators/os-tim-tebow-aaron-hernandez-bar-fight-07022013,0,6747621.story

 
Tebow in the bar? Was he 21 years of age?

 

[RedOctober3829]

Tebow in the bar? Was he 21 years of age?

 

 
At the time of the incident, he was 20 years old.  It doesn't say the name of the club, but some places are 18+ in college towns.

 

[DJnVa]

It's a sports bar type restaurant and has a kids menu.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

It's a sports bar type restaurant and has a kids menu.

 
That served 2 drinks to a 17 year old football player. No wonder they weren't real anxious to see the matter all the way through.

 

[DJnVa]

Granted. 
 
I'm sure they were more concerned with being a place the team hung out.

 

[OCST]

That served 2 drinks to a 17 year old football player. No wonder they weren't real anxious to see the matter all the way through.

OT, but do you really think a sports bar in Gainesville is going to not serve a star Gators player?

 

[RedOctober3829]

OT, but do you really think a sports bar in Gainesville is going to not serve a star Gators player?

Nope.  If they do it at places like Vermont and New Hampshire, they are surely going to in Gainesville.

 

[dcmissle]

As I said....
 

As I said....
 
 
 
 
This guy has been enabled since college.  Urban Meyer, like a lot of other incidents down in Gainesville, swept it under the rug. 
 
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/gators/os-tim-tebow-aaron-hernandez-bar-fight-07022013,0,6747621.story

 
Meyer was quoted to the effect that AH was destined either for the HOF or prison, and the Florida staff reportedly was worried every time he went home.
 
The cover-up capabilities of a big time college football program are like no other. 

 

[Myt1]

I think Hernandez is likely guilty as sin, but I'm having a remarkably hard time caring about him punching a bouncer when he was 17 or putting his hand through a window.
 
EDIT:  At least as either relates to a murder.

 

[twibnotes]

As I said....
 

 
Meyer was quoted to the effect that AH was destined either for the HOF or prison, and the Florida staff reportedly was worried every time he went home.
 
The cover-up capabilities of a big time college football program are like no other. 

Meanwhile, Meyer's Gators racked up 31 arrests (25 players). Major college football has its dirty elements, but some coaches and programs are worse than others. Meyer's Florida teams seem to have been loaded with troublemakers. Funny that Tebow was a part of those teams.

 

[dcmissle]

Though, as I understand it, a Wall Street Journal account of the same incident reports that some folks wanted him charged with felony battery, but this ended up being handled in the usual -- diversion, no real life consequences.
 
Now maybe the guy was destined to become a stone cold gang banger, but maybe he wasn't.  In all events, getting him off the hook no doubt drove the entitlement mind set.  The same world view that, remarkably, left him seemingly surprised when bail was denied.

 

[mauidano]

Meanwhile, Meyer's Gators racked up 31 arrests (25 players). Major college football has its dirty elements, but some coaches and programs are worse than others. Meyer's Florida teams seem to have been loaded with troublemakers. Funny that Tebow was a part of those teams.

They put him front and center as all that was right with college football and the Gators.  Nice shield.  So Tebow was a good blocker in college too.  Sure Tim has some stories.  Remarkable that not one peep out of the Pats regarding AH except two former players, Light and Branch.  

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

They put him front and center as all that was right with college football and the Gators.  Nice shield.  So Tebow was a good blocker in college too.  Sure Tim has some stories.  Remarkable that not one peep out of the Pats regarding AH except two former players, Light and Branch.  

 
They released him almost immediately after his arrest and had a  jersey trade in for his stuff a few days later. I think there's no need to make a statement when their actions speak for themselves.
 
Also, it's hardly remarkable, as both Kraft and BB have been reported to be out of the country on vacation.

 

[brandonchristensen]

Fuck, we signed Tebow too late
 
He could have changed everything.

 

[Van Everyman]

I think Hernandez is likely guilty as sin, but I'm having a remarkably hard time caring about him punching a bouncer when he was 17 or putting his hand through a window.

EDIT: At least as either relates to a murder.


How do you feel about him being a "nightmare" of a neighbor?

 

[Alcohol&Overcalls]

How do you feel about him being a "nightmare" of a neighbor?

 
Most nightmare neighbors are murders.  Which is important to remember when neighborhood kids light off fireworks all night for the next few days - most would recommend going on the offensive and killing them before they can get you.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

How do you feel about him being a "nightmare" of a neighbor?

 
Him being a bad guy is not, strictly speaking, relevant to the murder charges is what I took Myt1's point to be.  

 

[mauidano]

They released him almost immediately after his arrest and had a  jersey trade in for his stuff a few days later. I think there's no need to make a statement when their actions speak for themselves.
 
Also, it's hardly remarkable, as both Kraft and BB have been reported to be out of the country on vacation.

 True.  Point taken.  I was just thinking about the players and former players. Quote from Pete Abraham in the Red Sox Extra Bases Column:
 
 
• The Aaron Hernandez situation is terrible in every way. But if the fourth or fifth best Red Sox player was arrested and accused of cold-blooded, execution-style murder, it would be twice the story and team officials would be badgered into explaining how they didn't see it coming.
The NFL skates on issues like PEDs and crime, even violent crime, because we accept pro football as having a certain amount of thugs. The Patriots have gotten away with issuing a self-congratulatory statement about releasing Hernandez. Not one team official has spoken on the record about it. That's inconceivable in baseball.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Peter Abraham doesn't cover football and as such his whining should not be taken seriously. Baseball is a daily sport with daily access; football is not and furthermore we're in the middle of the deadest (get it, get it?) time of the football season. It's fucking insane for Abraham to compare the two.
 
I would guess no team official has spoken on the record about it because the only two guys that really matter are out of the country. If the 4th best Red Sox player kills a guy in the third week of November or something and Lucky and JWH and Ben are on an African safari at the time, I'm guessing we'd also hear very little from them at first.

 

[smastroyin]

Yup.  Just an interesting (or maybe not!) discussion about what seemed to jump out a bit as the most chilling bit of evidence revealed by the prosecutor during the bail hearing.

 
The technical argument is quite interesting and I can see why people want to discuss the evidence.  My question is more pointed towrds those who are using the text to try and say that Lloyd was not in a fearful state when he sent it.
 
Also, as for tweeting, I think it was established that he did not have a smart phone.

 

[MannysDestination]

The technical argument is quite interesting and I can see why people want to discuss the evidence.  My question is more pointed towrds those who are using the text to try and say that Lloyd was not in a fearful state when he sent it.
 
Also, as for tweeting, I think it was established that he did not have a smart phone.

 
I understand why it's a point of contention to some extent. I originally interpreted the texts as being bravado as in "holy crap I'm in Aaron Hernandez' posse and I'm hanging out with him!" which made the fact that he was killed 2 minutes later true stone-cold killer stuff. If it was a warning to his sister and he thought that he was about to be murdered, that points more to bumbling or desperate criminal status. Not important in the grand scheme of what happened, but it's a different characterization of AH's role.

 

[Van Everyman]

Peter Abraham doesn't cover football and as such his whining should not be taken seriously. Baseball is a daily sport with daily access; football is not and furthermore we're in the middle of the deadest (get it, get it?) time of the football season. It's fucking insane for Abraham to compare the two.

I would guess no team official has spoken on the record about it because the only two guys that really matter are out of the country. If the 4th best Red Sox player kills a guy in the third week of November or something and Lucky and JWH and Ben are on an African safari at the time, I'm guessing we'd also hear very little from them at first.


That's not a bad guess -- but Abraham isn't "insane" for his interpretation either. You might think that the news was big enough and terrible enough to warrant an early return ticket for Kraft or BB. Also, from his perspective, it's kind of hard not to acknowledge the different standards to which the two sports are held by the media.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

That's not a bad guess -- but Abraham isn't "insane" for his interpretation either. You might think that the news was big enough and terrible enough to warrant an early return ticket for Kraft or BB. Also, from his perspective, it's kind of hard not to acknowledge the different standards to which the two sports are held by the media.

 
My point was that his perspective is idiotic because he clearly doesn't have the faintest idea of the way football is covered by its regular media members. He's used to being at the park every day bullshitting for a few hours. Footballs pressers happen at strict times once a day and the games are once a week.
 
If the Patriots had done nothing, he might, might, have had a point. Releasing the player immediately speaks louder than anything press conference could, IMO.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Now maybe the guy was destined to become a stone cold gang banger, but maybe he wasn't.  In all events, getting him off the hook no doubt drove the entitlement mind set.  The same world view that, remarkably, left him seemingly surprised when bail was denied.

 
Recent reports from jail have quoted the warden as saying: "He doesn't seem nervous, which is unusual for someone who's never been incarcerated before,"
 
The more I hear, the more this sounds like psychopathology.
 
Also, the video at the link is funny because as the guy is on-scene reporting on... nothing, it starts pouring and he has to keep trying to do the (useless) broadcast while getting rained on.

 

[smastroyin]

SJH, I am going to take away your dope power if you keep using the word presser.

 

[Myt1]

Him being a bad guy is not, strictly speaking, relevant to the murder charges is what I took Myt1's point to be.  

 
Not even strictly.  I know plenty of people who have punched and been punched by bouncers, put their hands through glass, or been nightmares as neighbors. 
 
I think all of those things are roughly as predictive of their murderous futures as whether they eat pancakes.

 

[Stitch01]

What exactly do the critics want the Patriots to do or say right now?  They insta-released Hernandez after he was arrested and they issued a statement of sympathy for the victim.

 

[kolbitr]

Peter Abraham doesn't cover football and as such his whining should not be taken seriously. Baseball is a daily sport with daily access; football is not and furthermore we're in the middle of the deadest (get it, get it?) time of the football season. It's fucking insane for Abraham to compare the two.

I would guess no team official has spoken on the record about it because the only two guys that really matter are out of the country. If the 4th best Red Sox player kills a guy in the third week of November or something and Lucky and JWH and Ben are on an African safari at the time, I'm guessing we'd also hear very little from them at first.



I agree, and would go further than that; if the Red Sox were involved, it seems likely we would have read by now a few anonymous statements in the Globe from "club officials" painting Hernandez as solely to blame, as having rejected all attempts at help, and exonerating the Patriots altogether.

What Abraham, Joe Sullivan, and others don't want to consider is that the team might just be in shock...they are scattered across the country, are notoriously tight when it comes to press scrutiny and public statements, and might want to have a chance to come together and process things before making the Boston Globe's life easier. Moreover, this is an *ongoing investigation*...there are good reasons that the team and organization might not want to make glib statements to the press...

 

[rembrat]

My point was that his perspective is idiotic because he clearly doesn't have the faintest idea of the way football is covered by its regular media members. He's used to being at the park every day bullshitting for a few hours. Footballs pressers happen at strict times once a day and the games are once a week.
 
If the Patriots had done nothing, he might, might, have had a point. Releasing the player immediately speaks louder than anything press conference could, IMO.

 
I don't think it's idiotic for him to be comparing the two at all. Let's be honest, if this were a Baseball player it would be earth-shattering. It has nothing to do with the amount of access media members have and everything to do with the culture and environment on a football team. And releasing a player in this situation just speaks to how much of a joke a football contract is.

 

[Shelterdog]

I understand why it's a point of contention to some extent. I originally interpreted the texts as being bravado as in "holy crap I'm in Aaron Hernandez' posse and I'm hanging out with him!" which made the fact that he was killed 2 minutes later true stone-cold killer stuff. If it was a warning to his sister and he thought that he was about to be murdered, that points more to bumbling or desperate criminal status. Not important in the grand scheme of what happened, but it's a different characterization of AH's role.

 
I think I'm the nominal head of the "maybe Lloyd was bragging" team and this is a good summary of where I am.  We all agree, I think, that the Lloyd texts are fucking horrendous news for Hernandez--even if Lloyd was showing off or something the fact is he was with Hernandez moments before someone shot Lloyd. The analysis isn't out of some hope that Hernandez didn't do it, it really is an attempt to objectively interpret the documents.

 

[dcmissle]

What exactly do the critics want the Patriots to do or say right now?  They insta-released Hernandez after he was arrested and they issued a statement of sympathy for the victim.

 
 
Predictably, Felger is apparently bashing the Boston media for not demanding statements from Kraft and BB.
 
Now putting aside that both are supposedly vacationing out of the country, what are these media supposed to do?  You know damn well that murder is not a team sanctioned activity, and it's as plain as day that the team was hoodwinked by the player.  What's to say?
 
People had best get used to the fact that the Pats are out of the AH business.  Indeed, I think they are so out of it that they probably will not attempt to recoup any money from the guy, or otherwise attempt to mitigate the reported cap hits, which they can absorb easily enough. I suspect they want no dealings -- even adversarial ones -- with AH, and that's understandable.  Bad dream, turn the page.

 

[ifmanis5]

I'm already sick of this horrendous story and it's got years to go. Can someone shank him in the yard and be done with it? There's a pack of smokes in it for ya.

 

[dcmissle]

I think they'll try pretty damn hard to get money back from him. Is the NFLPA union really going to fight for him?

 
 
If the union fights for him like a tiger, I would understand.  Indeed, I expect it.  Not for AH necessarily, but for the next guy against whom the next case may not be so clear cut.  That's the union's job, to be your only friend in the world if it comes to that.

 

[Burn Out]

 
 
That's the union's job, to be your only friend in the world if it comes to that.

The union's job is only to worry about the union, not any one individual. If they feel it is not worth it to deal with AH, they will cut ties. Only, perhaps not as dramatically, publicly or completely as the Patriots did.

 

[ShaneTrot]

Mike Brown with a little bit of Monday morning quarterbacking about Hernandez and Gronk.
 
If Gresham is so good why did they draft another TE (Eifert) in the first round this year?
 
Gronk career stats: 187 receptions, 2663 yards, 38 TDs
Gresham career stats: 172 receptions, 1804 yards, 15 TDs