Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st degree murder; released by Patriots

[Harry Hooper]

Nobody is saying there weren't rumblings. There were rumblings, which is why he was a 4th round pick and not a top 5 pick. This isn't news.

 
A tussle with a bouncer isn't news (almost par for the course with a lot of college athletes), but shooting/attempted murder is more than the typical sort of rumblings.

 

[The Derek Lowe Face]

All of the Hernandez news had me revisiting the Gronk has a broken forearm thread from February, which included this post contrasting the off-field lives of Gronkowski and Hernandez (member's name withheld):
 
I suspect that Hernandez is more the type to kick back in his crib at the end of the day with some Afghan Kush, his mega-flat screen, and a female companion or two. These types generally don't get into the kind of public situations that everyone's so squirrelly about, and I have no doubt that the smarter organizations figured this out some time ago. Hernandez has been way low profile as far as off-the-field stuff goes. I wouldn't expect that to change. You may never hear anything about him like that - and that's just fine. 
 
For what it's worth, I totally agreed with this assessment at the time.  It really is crazy that we think we know the athletes we watch and idolize.

 

[timelysarcasm]

Hernandez has been way low profile as far as off-the-field stuff goes. I wouldn't expect that to change. You may never hear anything about him like that - and that's just fine.

 
I wouldn't expect it to change, either, considering the fact that he'll be in prison until flying cars exist.
 
Snark aside, the Hernandez stuff was stunning to me. I knew he liked to spark it up now and then, but I would have never imagined that goofy, smiling guy he appeared to be to be capable of murder. More than that, I'm really pissed he screwed us and our offense out of a pro bowl TE, and now we're stuck with this never-ending murder coverage. Someone has a set of Patriots TEs voodoo dolls somewhere.

 

[octoberaroma]

All of the Hernandez news had me revisiting the Gronk has a broken forearm thread from February, which included this post contrasting the off-field lives of Gronkowski and Hernandez (member's name withheld):
 
I suspect that Hernandez is more the type to kick back in his crib at the end of the day with some Afghan Kush, his mega-flat screen, and a female companion or two. These types generally don't get into the kind of public situations that everyone's so squirrelly about, and I have no doubt that the smarter organizations figured this out some time ago. Hernandez has been way low profile as far as off-the-field stuff goes. I wouldn't expect that to change. You may never hear anything about him like that - and that's just fine. 
 
For what it's worth, I totally agreed with this assessment at the time.  It really is crazy that we think we know the athletes we watch and idolize.

 
Ah yes, Afghan Kush.  The last time I ignited some of that I ran right smack into a bag of Chips Ahoy.  

 

[RedOctober3829]

Authorities are probing Aaron Hernandez for the the still unsolved 2007 shooting involving Reggie Nelson.  The police report indicates that a witness says a "Hawaiian or hispanic male standing about 6'3"-6'4" and a lot of tattoos" fired 5 shots into the window of a Crown Vic while they were stopped at a traffic light and ended up shooting 2 people.  The witness later says he was probably a UF football player.  Hernandez was questioned in the case, but it never went further than this.
 
Here is the police report.
http://www.gainesvillepd.org/Portals/2/PIO/0207020053.pdf

 

[mt8thsw9th]

I wouldn't expect it to change, either, considering the fact that he'll be in prison until flying cars exist.

 
So you're telling us in the afterlife there are flying cars? Hell, that's better than 72 virgins!

 

[teddykgb]

Man, reading that police report, it's insane that crimes ever get solved.  The suspect is a black male or a hawaiian male, wearing a green shirt or a black shirt.  Who might have cornrows.  Height is 5'9 or 6'2, depending on who you ask, and he weighs between 170 and 240 pounds.  He seemingly ran in every direction except south.  And he wasn't the guy in a green shirt who was taken down by shotgun armed officers at the scene.
 
edit: multiple witnesses describe the shooter as having collar length cornrows/braids.  Considering Hernandez pretty much has always seemed to have that shaved bowl cut fade thing, it seems like although the MO was similar, he probably wasn't the shooter here, imo.

 

[MainerInExile]

If he was involved with everything he has now been linked to, we maybe start to see a picture of how he was so stupid and reckless.  He's 17 when he first shoots some people, and they don't die and he totally gets away with it.  The second time, they do die, but he totally gets away with it.  By his third time, he expects to get away with it.

 

[soxfan121]

Is this Patriots-related anymore? Could we maybe lock or move the discussion? Am I the only one tired of seeing it be the "Most Recent" when jumping into the forum?
 
I guess the alternatives may be Tebow or Paleskins. These are truly dark days in BBTL.

 
It's July 3rd. If this is still the most active thread in the forum by July 30th, I'd be shocked. 
 
However, there's always room for more Tebow Talk. Hallelujah.

 

[mauidano]

It's July 3rd. If this is still the most active thread in the forum by July 30th, I'd be shocked. 
 
However, there's always room for more Tebow Talk. Hallelujah.

 
Being that AH makes his next court appearance on July 24th, prepare to be shocked.

 

[dcmissle]

Is this Patriots-related anymore? Could we maybe lock or move the discussion? Am I the only one tired of seeing it be the "Most Recent" when jumping into the forum?
 
I guess the alternatives may be Tebow or Paleskins. These are truly dark days in BBTL.

 
Sadly this will be the reference point for a year. 
 
If they do well this season, the story will be rallying the troops to get through enormous difficulty.  Poorly, and it will be the Hernandez hangover.
 
And it will totally frame the 2014 draft, particularly after the Dennard bullet that narrowly missed.

 

[DJnVa]

AH had a "secret" apartment.  One of his boys told cops about it and....
 
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9447468/cops-find-evidence-secret-aaron-hernandez-pad
 

Court documents indicate that the search of a secret "flop house" leased by former New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez has turned up what police say could be key evidence in the murder case against him.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

</p>

Is this Patriots-related anymore? Could we maybe lock or move the discussion? Am I the only one tired of seeing it be the "Most Recent" when jumping into the forum?
 
I guess the alternatives may be Tebow or Paleskins. These are truly dark days in BBTL.

<p>

I think the trial, evidence, and case speculation should continue in the V&N thread.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

So it ends up being Carlos Ortiz who flips on Hernandez. If they already got Ortiz giving up the location of the secret apartment where he stashed ammo and the sweatshirt he may have been wearing that night, Hernandez is toast.

 

[soxfaninyankeeland]

SHOCKING!

Since Carlos Ortiz is charged only with illegally possessing a gun on the date of the homicide, I'm going to guess that he snitched.

 

[twoBshorty]

Is it possible that they could find gunshot residue on the clothes, suggesting that Hernandez was the one who pulled the trigger? Or do I watch too much CSI? Unless there was blood spatter all over the clothes I have a hard time imagining him being bright enough to launder them. 

 

[axx]

Sounds like the Cops don't have enough to tie Hernandez to the Boston shootings.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

 
Also now apparently being investigated for a role in a shooting in Florida when he was 17 (and was possibly even id'ed by one of the victims)
 
 
 

Two days after the shooting, Gainesville police Lt. Keith Kameg was quoted in the Orlando Sentinel as saying neither Hernandez nor Nelson were suspects. Police have also said that they briefly interviewed Hernandez about the shooting. But, according to the police report, Hernandez declined to speak to Gainesville police nine days after the shooting. Hernandez's name is redacted from the report because he was 17 at the time, so was considered a minor. However, there is one reference to Hernandez in which his name is not redacted. In that section under "Aaron Hernandez," the report says detectives attempted to speak to Hernandez on Oct. 9 but that "he invoked his right to counsel."
That same day Cason, who had originally said Nelson and the Hawaiian or Hispanic male were the suspects, "rescinded his identification of Aaron Hernandez and Reggie Nelson," according to the report. While Hernandez' name was redacted in the document, it was the first time the report indicated that Cason had positively identified Hernandez as the shooter at some point.

 
 
 
 

This is fucking beautiful.  A day after Mike Brown opens his stupid mouth, one of his star players is implicated in an unsolved murder WITH Aaron Hernandez.  In case anyone hadn't put it together already, this Reggie Nelson is the same Reggie Nelson that currently plays for the Bengals:  http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/04/mike-brown-should-have-a-sit-down-with-reggie-nelson/

 

[Buffalo Head]

That's tremendous.

 

[canderson]

So that apartment search turned up bullets that match the casings found at the crime scene.

 

[SMU_Sox]

If you're an avid gun enthusiast you might just have by mere coincidence the same shells that match some random crime scenes. Just saying... obviously here we have a name/face and a match so it's likely more than a coincidence but I would still be cautious about jumping to too many conclusions (although here it may be safe to).

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

My understanding is that the murder weapon is a Glock .45. There are pictures of AH holding a Glock .45. Police found ammo for a Glock .45 in his apartment. So that's something. On the other hand, isn't it a very popular model?

 

[bsartist618]

My understanding is that the murder weapon is a Glock .45. There are pictures of AH holding a Glock .45. Police found ammo for a Glock .45 in his apartment. So that's something. On the other hand, isn't it a very popular model?

 
More like "Police found .45 caliber ammo" which doesn't really mean much.
I have a few friends who are likely to have >100 rounds of that in their homes.
 
Even evidence of AH holding said Glock isn't particularly useful because, as you said, it is a popular model.

 

[DJnVa]

More like "Police found .45 caliber ammo" which doesn't really mean much.
I have a few friends who are likely to have >100 rounds of that in their homes.
 
Even evidence of AH holding said Glock isn't particularly useful because, as you said, it is a popular model.

 
It's certainly useful if the case being built is circumstantial.

 

[moly99]

My understanding is that the murder weapon is a Glock .45. There are pictures of AH holding a Glock .45. Police found ammo for a Glock .45 in his apartment. So that's something. On the other hand, isn't it a very popular model?

 

Ammo isn't tied to a specific firearm. You can use .45 ACP ammo in any .45 pistol. And there are a hell of a lot of pistols that fire .45 ACP rounds.
 
I would be more interested in a metallurgical analysis of the bullets. I think that's the next logical step for forensic science, especially since cartridge casings are made of brass. (Brass is an alloy rather than a base element like lead, so there should be a lot of variance in its composition between different ammo companies and even some difference between different batches.)

 

[dcmissle]

It's certainly useful if the case being built is circumstantial.

 
The circumstantial evidence is accumulating at a Nor'easter clip, about 2 inches an hour.

 

[Bergs]

If indeed the bullets "match the casings found at the crime scene," they are obviously the same brand/model. I'm sure by now they already know exactly what type of bullets were used in the shooting.

 

[dcmissle]

Shelley and Gigi are upset:
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/05/urban-meyers-wife-daughter-unhappy-with-hernandez-scrutiny/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs
 
"When will we learn to hold people accountable for their actions ..." (paraphrased)
 
That's rich ...

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

I thought you'd made up the names Shelley and Gigi to make fun of someone as some pearl-clutching aristocrat.  I'm very amused to discover that Shelley is in fact the name of his wife and Gigi his daughter.  Awesome.

 

[soxfan121]

It's certainly useful if the case being built is circumstantial.

 
It's certainly useful if the State does not have the murder weapon and has no other choice but to build a case circumstantially. 

 

[canderson]

The Florida shot-in-the-eye guy has been ordered to appear July 17 before the grand jury, per ESPN.com.

 

[SWHB]

I don't think it's idiotic for him to be comparing the two at all. Let's be honest, if this were a Baseball player it would be earth-shattering. It has nothing to do with the amount of access media members have and everything to do with the culture and environment on a football team. And releasing a player in this situation just speaks to how much of a joke a football contract is.

Indeed. Only a football player would be convicted of attempted murder for trying to hack people to death with a machete, pour gasoline on them, and ignite them. That's NFL culture for you.

Oh wait, sorry, that was Ugueth Urbina. My bad.

 

[SumnerH]

It's certainly useful if the State does not have the murder weapon and has no other choice but to build a case circumstantially. 

 
Which is not at all uncommon, lots of famous cases were prosecuted entirely or primarily on circumstantial evidence. The MA jury instructions are careful to explain the difference between direct and circumstantial evidence, and also to explain that circumstantial evidence isn't inherently inferior (indeed, they point out that "Circumstantial evidence -- whether it is in the form of testimony or physical evidence -- may have an advantage because it comes from several different sources, which can be used as a check on each other.", and that "The law allows either type of proof in a criminal trial.").

 

[dcmissle]

Thus the grand jury can resemble an about-to-be-locked thread. There is no way the FL viictim gets to tell his story to a MA jury barring AH's lawyer opening the door to it, which would be insane.

 

[DegenerateSoxFan]

Thus the grand jury can resemble an about-to-be-locked thread. There is no way the FL viictim gets to tell his story to a MA jury barring AH's lawyer opening the door to it, which would be insane.

This. Judges can be pretty loose about letting in "other act" evidence under Rule 404(b) of the rules of evidence (The likely pertinent rule if the prosecution tries to bring it in. I'm not a MA lawyer, but I'm assuming it has a similar version of the federal rule) when the prosecution wants it, but I don't see it here. A lot of stuff that people think would make for great appellate issues gets ground up by the doctrine of harmless error, but not something like this.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

A couple of things.  The grand jury wanting to hear from the Florida victim is odd.  It is very unlikely that they stopped proceedings and asked the judge if they could hear from that guy.  This is likely  the prosecutor pulling a string and placing responsibility on the GJ.  He probably gave them a brief outline of what the guy would say and told them they could request to hear from him if they needed.  You do not need anything more to the arrest warrant narrative to get a true bill from the GJ on this case. Should have taken about 30 minutes.
 
Second, even though I posted the Jury Instructions upthread, it is unlikely that this stays a "circumstantial only" case.  As soon as one of the two who have likely already cooperated testify, you'll have direct evidence mixed in and it will no longer be exclusively circumstantial.
 
Third, it is very unlikely that any violent evidence from other Hernandez escapades comes in as it does nothing to prove the facts of this case and is only being introduced to show he's a bad guy or prejudice the jury.  Too inflammatory and not relevant, won't come in.   Real jury never hears about Florida.

 

[dcmissle]

This is how the proverbial ham sandwich gets indicted.  Generally.  But it's very likely not needed here.  Additional knee to groin.

 

[rembrat]

Indeed. Only a football player would be convicted of attempted murder for trying to hack people to death with a machete, pour gasoline on them, and ignite them. That's NFL culture for you.

Oh wait, sorry, that was Ugueth Urbina. My bad.

 
One instance vs the countless gun related, sexual assault, drug usage, getting shot in your head by your mistress that happen in the NFL every goddamn season.

 

[dcmissle]

I thought you'd made up the names Shelley and Gigi to make fun of someone as some pearl-clutching aristocrat.  I'm very amused to discover that Shelley is in fact the name of his wife and Gigi his daughter.  Awesome.

 
 
Now Hubby/Daddy speaks; via PFT.com:
 

Five days ago, former Florida coach Urban Meyer previously had nothing to say about former Gators tight end Aaron Hernandez.  Now, with mounting criticism of his program in Gainesville as more negative information about Hernandez emerges, Meyer has broken his silence.
 
“Prayers and thoughts are with the family and friends of the victim,” Meyer, now the head coach at Ohio State, told Tim May of the Columbus Dispatch via text message.  “Relating or blaming these serious charges to the University of Florida, myself or our staff is wrong and irresponsible.”
 
As it relates to alleged drug use, Meyer is right.  But a recent ABC News report raises real questions regarding whether a September 2007 shooting properly was investigated by Gainesville police or the football program.  Hernandez, then 17, reportedly declined to be interviewed by police, invoking his right to counsel.
 
When a 17-year-old invokes the right to counsel while being questioned about a shooting, that’s more than enough for his college football coach to get to the bottom of the situation.  If that had happened (and by all appearances it didn’t), perhaps Hernandez would have learned at a young age the connection between his conduct and consequences.  Instead, Hernandez (if the current allegations are true) may have developed a sense that things will always work out, no matter what he does.
 
Meyer didn’t address the unsolved shooting in his text messages to the Dispatch.
 
“I just received an email from a friend where there is an accusation of multiple failed drug tests by Hernandez covered up by University of Florida or the coaching staff.  This is absolutely not true,” Meyer said. “Hernandez was held to the same drug testing policy as every other player. . . .
“He was an athlete at Florida 4-7 yrs ago and there are some comments being made that are not correct.  Our staff, myself and our families worked very hard to mentor and guide him.”

 
(emphasis added).
 
What I'd like to know -- from a human interest standpoint alone, not second-guessing -- is whether Meyer confided his reported belief to BB that AH would land either in the HOF or prison.

 

[brandonchristensen]

At least someone out there is supporting Aaron in his time of need...
 

 

[Reverend]

Does it matter that they are not flashing the same sign?
 
I'm not down on signs.

 

[crystalline]

 
What I'd like to know -- from a human interest standpoint alone, not second-guessing -- is whether Meyer confided his reported belief to BB that AH would land either in the HOF or prison.

 
This article is from before the draft
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/3/10/2314211/nfl-draft-2010-player-profile-aaron-hernandez-florida-tight-end
 

Character: Has never been a problem for Florida. However, there is the often quoted but never confirmed line from Urban Meyer during Hernandez's freshman year, "Aaron will either be in prison or a Hall of Famer."

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Does it matter that they are not flashing the same sign?
 
I'm not down on signs.

 
It does if he's expecting an Uncle Charlie and gets the ol' Number One.

 

[JohnnyK]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130708/aaron-hernandez-murder-liability/?sct=hp_wr_a1&eref=sihp
 
Michael McCann on potential civil suits against AH, the Pats and the NFL. Looks to me that the Pats don't really have much to fear there.

 

[shoosh77]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9459776/ea-sports-removes-aaron-hernandez-games

 

[RedOctober3829]

Bob Kraft spoke today about the Hernandez saga.  I'd post some of the article here, but I can't see what I cut and paste from the article and the formatting sucks.  There's some interesting nuggets in there including what Hernandez did after he got drafted to convince Kraft that he wouldn't be a problem.
 
http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/the_blitz/2013/07/bob_kraft_on_aaron_hernandez_i_was_duped

 

[Jnai]

Full text of the letter that Kraft mentions:
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2013/07/full_text_of_letter_aaron_hernandez_sent_new_engla.html
 

Any information I volunteer to you about my past will be looked at
with great skepticism as I am trying to get drafted as high as possible
by an NFL team. As such, I thought that the best way to answer your
questions and your concerns was to make a very simple proposition. If
you draft me as a member of the New England Patriots, I will willfully
submit to a bi-weekly drug test throughout my rookie season (8 drug
tests during the 2010 regular season). In addition, I will tie any
guaranteed portion of my 2010 compensation to these drug tests and
reimburse the team a pro-rata amount for any failed drug test. My agents
have explained that a direct forfeiture provision in my contract along
these lines would violate the CBA rules. However, I have instructed them
to be creative in finding a contract structure that would work on in
the worst case scenario, I would donate the pro-rata portion of any
guaranteed money to the team's choice of charities. My point is simple
-- if I fail a drug test, I do not deserve that portion of the money.

 

[DJnVa]

"Following Aaron's arrest, I read a number of different accounts of how things transpired in our organization. Let me be clear: We decided the week prior to Aaron's arrest that if Aaron was arrested in connection with the Lloyd murder case that we would cut him immediately after," he said.

 
Taking that at face value, apparently even if he wasn't as involved as it appears he is, jut being on the periphery was going to cost AH his job in NE.

 

[54thMA]

Does it matter that they are not flashing the same sign?
 
I'm not down on signs.

I'm not either, but those look like the secret signs of the Van Buren boys, or at least they were when I was bangin.

 

[soxfan121]

From ESPNBoston's Pats Blog:
 

Kraft -- who explained that he had to be limited in his remarks because of an ongoing criminal investigation as well as other potential civil proceedings, and was speaking against the advice of his general counsel -- began by reading a statement to reporters.
 
"Following Aaron's arrest, I read a number of different accounts of how things transpired in our organization. Let me be clear: We decided the week prior to Aaron's arrest that if Aaron was arrested in connection with the Lloyd murder case that we would cut him immediately after," he said.
 
"The rationale behind that decision was that if any member of the New England Patriots organization is close enough to a murder investigation to actually get arrested -- whether it be for obstruction of justice or the crime itself, it is too close to an unthinkable act for that person to be part of this organization going forward."
 
Kraft, who repeated that the club did not know Hernandez would be facing a murder charge when it released him, said the Patriots had no knowledge of Hernandez's actions outside of Gillette Stadium.
 
"When he was in our building, we never saw anything where he was not polite. He was always respectful to me. We only know what's going on inside the building. We don't put private eyes on people."
 
"If this stuff is true, then I've been duped and our whole organization has been duped."
 
Kraft, who believed Hernandez was a "most likable young man," said the Patriots "made a mistake and are facing it head on," which includes a process in which they will "renew efforts and look at procedures."