But "LOL" all that, which suggests that she didn't seem to think that's 'with NFL' implied imminent danger.dirtynine said:
(Speculation, obviously).
Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st degree murder; released by Patriots
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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(Speculation, obviously).
Is it possible that his use of the moniker 'NFL' indicated to her that he was annoyed/pissed/aggy, because he referred to Hernandez that way sometimes and by other names at other times, when he felt positive toward him? Maybe he called Hernandez 'NFL' when AH was acting like a bigshot, or a prick, and she realized he must be 'aggy' that night...hence the LOL, as she's laughing a little
it has always been astonishing how callous he was in regards to covering his crime, reading that document is surreal. You get the sense that he's never even watched TV, given his non effort to even try to cover up what he had done. Leaving the rental car keys in Lloyd's pocket, leaving his home security system on while walking around with a gun, all the text messaging, returning a damaged car to Enterprise with no excuse and leaving a spent shell in the car....it's unbelievable how bad he was at this. The investigating officers must have been astonished at how quickly everything pointed to him.
Stupid question: did they ever find the sideview mirror?
That doc makes note of when it's attached and when it's not attached to the car, but I didn't notice that they said they had recovered it. (maybe conveniently omitted, for use later.....?)
And mention of the white towel was a nice touch, tho it's far from a nail-in-the-coffin piece of evidence.
That doc makes note of when it's attached and when it's not attached to the car, but I didn't notice that they said they had recovered it. (maybe conveniently omitted, for use later.....?)
And mention of the white towel was a nice touch, tho it's far from a nail-in-the-coffin piece of evidence.
I found this little tidbit from the affidavit to be quite odd
"Investigators observed Aaron Hernandez lying on the floor of the interview room while awaiting the arrival of his attorney"
Maybe he was having his moment of truth. In any case, it is just astounding what a friggin moron this guy is
"Investigators observed Aaron Hernandez lying on the floor of the interview room while awaiting the arrival of his attorney"
Maybe he was having his moment of truth. In any case, it is just astounding what a friggin moron this guy is
The affidavit mentions that according to the surveillance videos, Hernandez was initially the passenger, but minutes later he was seen exiting the vehicle as the driver. It seems to me that it is likely that the original driver hit something - knocking off the mirror - at which point Hernandez decided to take over the driving duties. Maybe they were all drunk?
Breaking news report in CT just now. They are searching a pond in Bristol, CT with Bristol County police there as well, which is where Hernandez was arraigned. Speculation is that they are looking for the murder weapon.
Snodgrass'Muff said:
This....coupled with reports of Wallace cooperating, does not bode well for our former TE.
Without a weapon and the lone witness being a homeless guy nicknamed "Hobo".......he's in no worse spot than OJ was heading toward trial imo.
BigSoxFan said:
Is there a way of getting rid of a gun that's universally accepted as the "right way"? I'm not sure how I'd opt to dispose of it, but I'm not a criminal mastermind.
I mean, assuming you don' t have more than, say, 30 minutes to do something with it, and you're acting alone. What do you do?
If you have an accomplice, it's simple enough to give it to the accomplice to drive far, far, away and throw it in a deep lake/ocean. But otherwise, I dunno.
BigSoxFan said:
If The First 48 is anything to go by, they get that part right most of the time. Maybe it's just editing for interesting shows, but it seems like there are more instances of guys confessing in interrogation than there are of the murder weapon being found.
drleather2001 said:
I'd break it down into 5-6 parts and dispose of them in different areas.
You know. Like you'd do to a body.
Also, while I'm in this thread and playing criminal, this whole thing wreaks of a plan gone bad.
This feels like Hernandez was trying to scare the shit out of this kid.
"Oh. You're going to talk to these people I don't like? I'll straighten that right out."
When Hernandez pulled into a dark empty lot, Lloyd got spooked and jumped out of the car to run for it, Hernandez didn't expect it and reacted by shooting him. Since there were shell casings found in the car, and the passenger side mirror was broke off, this feels like the order of things. At that point, Hernandez figured he had to finish the job, got out, and put a few more into his chest. Then he had no idea what to do and he panicked. He left the body half a mile from his house, left shell casings in the car, ran home and shut off his video cameras (a little too late brainiac), called cleaners to his house figuring they could clean up any dirt/shoe prints they tracked around the house from the dirt parking lot, ran out and tossed the gun into a lake/woods/wherever.
None of this feels planned. Everyone just wants to say "this kid was just the worst criminal ever!", but I don't buy it. He had tons of people fooled and he lived this kind of life for many years. This just feels like a bunch of guys panicking and not knowing what to do.
This feels like Hernandez was trying to scare the shit out of this kid.
"Oh. You're going to talk to these people I don't like? I'll straighten that right out."
When Hernandez pulled into a dark empty lot, Lloyd got spooked and jumped out of the car to run for it, Hernandez didn't expect it and reacted by shooting him. Since there were shell casings found in the car, and the passenger side mirror was broke off, this feels like the order of things. At that point, Hernandez figured he had to finish the job, got out, and put a few more into his chest. Then he had no idea what to do and he panicked. He left the body half a mile from his house, left shell casings in the car, ran home and shut off his video cameras (a little too late brainiac), called cleaners to his house figuring they could clean up any dirt/shoe prints they tracked around the house from the dirt parking lot, ran out and tossed the gun into a lake/woods/wherever.
None of this feels planned. Everyone just wants to say "this kid was just the worst criminal ever!", but I don't buy it. He had tons of people fooled and he lived this kind of life for many years. This just feels like a bunch of guys panicking and not knowing what to do.
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
There's also the possible irrational confidence angle. They/AH may have gotten away with a double murder already, not to mention shooting that other guy in the face. To me, it's either what you just laid out, or somehow AH decided that murder/shooting people really wasn't that difficult to pull off and just got extremely lazy and sloppy. Could also be a mix of the two - thought they could easily get away with scaring him, like you said, then didn't have any qualms about just killing him when shit hit the fan.
drleather2001 said:
Leave the gun, take the cannolis.
But that assumes the gun isn't traceable back to you.
Also, the Don Corleone method of dumping gun parts in chimneys is probably not wise in this day and age (as opposed to an era when people didn't want to talk to the police).
I can see one neighbor mentioning it to another neighbor ("Hey, I found a gun barrel in my stove! Whatdya know!") and reporting it to the authorities.
I can see one neighbor mentioning it to another neighbor ("Hey, I found a gun barrel in my stove! Whatdya know!") and reporting it to the authorities.
drleather2001 said:
He also probably regrets that "I killed 2 guys in Boston in 2012" tattoo.
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Well, they are charging murder 1 and he was denied bail even with GPS tracking and house confinement, so prosecutors at least don't think this was just a scare turned bad.
Monbo Jumbo said:
And that you don't have a photo with the gun and that you didn't have it in da club in your waistband and spent rounds weren't found in your rented car and that more ammunition isn't found in your flop house.
No one has called AH dumb today. He is dumb.
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
I disagree entirely, particularly if it turns out Hernandez is guilty of the double murder they're investigating him for. That takes it from a plan gone bad, to a guy who was fucked for two murders and figured he'd make it an even three by throwing the "kill the witness/jabber" Hail Mary.
He seems like almost every other criminal I've known in my life. An impulsive guy who got away with enough shit in his life that he either thought he was smarter than the cops, or that they would never believe Aaron Hernandez, tight end for the New England Patriots could be capable of murder. The whole idea that he overreacted or panicked presupposes that his first reaction to extreme bouts of anger isn't to commit felonious assaults with weapons. If it turns out he killed two guys in an SUV after an argument at a nightclub, and with all the other random stories that come out (granted, some are bound to be piling on), then it seems unlikely that he panicked, and more likely that he just acted the way he always has, only this time a guy died and he got caught.
“@GeorgeColli: Sources: police are investigating a connection between Aaron #Hernandez and "more than one" shooting in FL going back to his freshman year”
https://twitter.com/GeorgeColli/status/361868451976970240
Geeez Hernandez.
https://twitter.com/GeorgeColli/status/361868451976970240
Geeez Hernandez.
wouldn't that make it more likely that parts of it would be found? I mean, I guess it's hard to trace individual pieces of things, but seems like you'd not want to increase the number of potentially incriminating objects.Kenny F'ing Powers said:
if you had the means, I think your best bet would be to melt it. But of course, that's not all that easy, especially at 3am or whatever time it was.
If this were a movie, the amount of evidence being piled up against him would make him look like the victim of an elaborate frame job. This whole thing has been ridiculous.
rembrat said:
"I'm a famous sports celebrity and I just killed a guy... this could be the biggest sports/news crossover story of the year. Better lay low... ok: I'll dump the body a mile from my house, and dispose of the murder weapon next to ESPN's headquarters."
I think that like most things in life, you need a certain number of reps to master a skill; someone showing you the ropes and imparting some wisdom it helps. Whoever commits a murder on his own accord, most times doesn't have that knowledge. He's bound to make mistakes. It's infinitely more difficult to solve a mafia murder. There's institutional knowledge there.
Having said that, add me to the camp that believes there was a certain degree of cockiness and impulsiveness in his actions. It looks to me as if the gun was disposed off ok. What strikes me as highly risky is leaving a text message paper trail that connects you to a murdered person an hour or two before he got killed. That looks to me like highly risky.
Having said that, add me to the camp that believes there was a certain degree of cockiness and impulsiveness in his actions. It looks to me as if the gun was disposed off ok. What strikes me as highly risky is leaving a text message paper trail that connects you to a murdered person an hour or two before he got killed. That looks to me like highly risky.
exactly, it seems the only way that the gun was going to be found was if the guy Hernandez put in charge of disposing it flipped on him. Why else would the police know to search that pound in Bristol? Unless they got extremely lucky and were able to track the guy's location on that night to that pond via some electronic means, but that seems unlikely. this feels like AH told this guy to get rid of the gun and he did. But AH did not count on him flipping and then telling the cops where he put it.
Well, according to this article:
http://m.caller.com/news/2010/may/23/analysis-look-what-kinds-murders-get-solved/
If the killing was emotional/money based, he's strictly replacement value.
If it was gang related, he's positively Tebow-esque...
*Value Over Replacement Murder.
And it all happened within miles of his home; his UZR sucks.
(.....sorry)
http://m.caller.com/news/2010/may/23/analysis-look-what-kinds-murders-get-solved/
But
So, what's Hernandez's VORM*?
If the killing was emotional/money based, he's strictly replacement value.
If it was gang related, he's positively Tebow-esque...
*Value Over Replacement Murder.
And it all happened within miles of his home; his UZR sucks.
(.....sorry)
That's nothing new on the surface, is it? Guy from the civil lawsuit and guy from college.soxhop411 said:
If they do investigate that UFL shooting, the NFL may be in for further embarrassment, as Reggie Nelson is alleged to have been the other shooter.
The FBI is now involved in this whole debacle. More charges could be added. This was serious before, but this could be just the beginning.
https://twitter.com/JvittalFoxCT/status/361941886031769600
simplyeric said:
A propane torch from your neighborhood hardware store probably wouldn't be strong enough to melt steel. But you can make thermite out of aluminum cans and rust. (Of course, there is an even better better option available: don't murder people in the first place.)
moly99 said:
oxyacetylene torch, if you can get some contruction equipment?
(no disrepspect moly99, but "don't murder people" is a little naive, don't you think? I mean, we've ALL been there.... right?)
RedOctober3829 said:
Has he been connected to that triple homicide with the Marathon bombers in Waltham yet?
savage362 said:
Had the time to skim this today. There are a few areas that might give him some traction, were he to try the case. His best argument might be that Wallace did the shooting - however, A.H. is still culpable under accomplice/accessory theory.
Since Wallace got a deal, I expect he will roll on A.H. and testify against him. You can usually mess up those guys at trial, but, depending on the facts, sometimes it's not enough to benefit the defendant (i.e., the jury finds the witness sketchy, but if they testify in a way that lines up with all the other evidence, the defendant goes down.)
My bottom line is that unless something funky happens, A.H. is toast.
Based on the expected evidence at trial (as we now know it) he should probably take any deal that results in him possibly getting out while he's still alive (i.e., anything under 50 years.) Assuming any such deal is offered by the state.
***
As far as the gun thing goes, guns are only useful in criminal prosecution if they are A) tied to the crime itself (and) B) tied to the defendant.
You get A) through ballistics analysis - does the gun match the caliber of any bullets recovered? Do the bullets show any rifling patterns which suggest they were shot from that particular gun? Do the casings show any patterns that indicate they were fired from that particular gun?
You get B) through finding the gun in the defendant's actual or constructive possession, showing the gun was purchased/owned by the defendant, finding fingerprints on the gun or DNA on the gun. Sometimes you can get fibers from a dirty gun. You might also be able to do a test for gunpowder residue on the defendant's hands (which can only show at best that he shot a gun within a certain period of time, you cannot determine what type of gun was shot or when it happened.)
So basically, the best way to use a gun in a crime is to make sure it can't be traced back to you, through ownership/possession or physical evidence. You don't have to destroy the gun. If you buy it on the black market, use it, then clean it well enough, you could mail it to the cops afterward. Or drop it in a pond. It really does not matter since there's no way to connect the gun to you.
In this case, the state has one "half" of the ballistics evidence from the scene. They have a witness to the shooting, plus photographs of A.H. holding what appears to be a gun. They found a shell casing in A.H.'s rental car which matches the shell casings left by the body, and is of the same caliber as those which killed Lloyd. There's a window of time where A.H. could have disposed of the gun. (I.e., there's nothing suspicious about the gun being missing.)
The prosecutors don't need the actual gun in this case. If they found it in a place that A.H. (or an accomplice could have disposed of it in). And/or found evidence of its purchase, they could introduce that evidence to a jury. But it wouldn't even be icing on the cake. It would just be more circumstantial evidence.
Icing would be A.H.'s DNA on the gun, plus a ballistic match to the bullets which killed Lloyd.
Depending on how the gun was disposed of, the DNA evidence might be there or might be erased. DNA, *if* deposited, breaks down for various environmental reasons - bleach does a pretty good job on it if you want to hasten the process.
Fingerprints could be on various parts of the handgun, internal and external. They're destroyed by simply wiping those surfaces down with a cloth. Fingerprints have greatly variable lives - if the print is formed by your body's oil (sweat then touch glass and you leave prints) then UV and humidity and dust can break down that pattern of oil pretty quickly. On the other hand, if you leave a fingerprint with paint or ink (instead of body oil), it can pretty much be preserved forever. (Hence fingerprint cards.) Gun prints are sometimes left by the oil that's used to clean/lube guns. Depending on how dirty the oil and the grade of viscosity, prints on the internal parts of guns (say the clip on a revolver or a bullet inside the clip) can stay for quite awhile. Especially if the gun isn't fired.
The ballistics info would likely be there, unless the inside of the barrel were disfigured - you'd need something to severely scrape it up so that the rifling was destroyed and investigators couldn't use it to fire a bullet, and compare that bullet's deformations to a bullet recovered from the crime scene. And again, that's only useful if you can tie the gun to the shooter. Ballistics alone does not do that. So, a clean untraceable gun found in some place that anyone could access is pretty much worthless to an investigation.
Gun tracing depends on records. Generally if a gun is black market and has passed through the hands of several dealers, there's no way the state will find out who bought it. However, if a gun is bought directly (or which goes through only one black market seller, who may be incarcerated/traceable), ownership can be proven. To do that you simply look at the gun's serial number(s) and reference them to a database. Even legitimate dealers can screw up records though, so it's not a sure thing. You can file off serial numbers, but I've never seen a case where anyone actually bothered to do this. Mostly, they're just bought from friends who bought them from a guy who knew a guy from the next state over who got it from his cousin who died. (So the trace finds the cousin who died, at best.)
Good thing your not friends with AH. Thanks for info.
So he's basicly been possibly linked to anyone who has been shot any time within 10 miles or so of him at this point I think.
So he's basicly been possibly linked to anyone who has been shot any time within 10 miles or so of him at this point I think.
Didn't they just dump the guns in the sewer in The Wire?
Except for the time they threw them off the bridge and the bag landed on a barge and was recovered. D'oh!
Except for the time they threw them off the bridge and the bag landed on a barge and was recovered. D'oh!
drleather2001 said:
Well, I think people used their fireplaces more back then. Heat and smoke would probably fuck up prints and other evidence, but I don't think they were looking at DNA and other such forensics back then.
I'm not an expert like RR, but I think the emphasis on finding the weapon is overwrought because of TV, as I think RR implies. Finding the weapon only matters if the weapon can be tied to the perp. Hell, a friend of mine has what is almost certainly an untraceable handgun that he was able to obtain because he's a teacher in a bad neighborhood and he filched it from a locker. Firearms tracking in the US ain't easy.
Reverend said:
I disagree in this instance. If they recover the gun in a random pond in Bristol, CT based on Wallace's cooperation it adds a TON of credibility to this witness. Without Wallace helping them locate the weapon a homeless guy nicknamed "Hobo" is going to get torn apart on the stand. Prosecutors need to be able to say, "We did not have a clue as to where the murder weapon was located until Wallace agreed to cooperate and tell us precisely what he did with the murder weapon following witnessing AH shoot and kill Odin Lloyd." THIS would be a powerful statement in adding credibility to this scumbag which in this case carries more weight than simply locating a murder weapon.
It looks like they are really working on tying additional murder charges on AH here to portray him as essentially a serial killer and not an OJ/Lewis who has a decent risk of walking without a more solid case.
BucketOBalls said:
I know this is tongue in cheek, but basically there's a ton of evidence he's the shooter.
Evidence is either direct (goes to prove a fact) or circumstantial (suggests a fact).
So for example, a picture of AH with a gun on the night of the shooting is direct evidence he had a gun. It adds to the circumstantial evidence that he's the shooter. If the gun in the picture is consistent with the bullets used in the murder, it's again circumstantial to the murder itself. (Whereas, hypothetically, if the picture showed he had a .357 magnum and the murder was done with a .22, it's clearly not circumstantial as to the murder - it would argue against him being the shooter.)
Anyway, the direct evidence that AH was the shooter in this case will be the testimony of the accomplice who saw the killing.
That testimony will be corroborated by (backed up by, and not contradicted by) all of the circumstantial evidence that shows Lloyd was with AH (cellphone, pictures of the car, etc.) and which narrows the window of time to the point where the only reasonable conclusion is that AH is the shooter. All the additional evidence that corroborates the accomplice's testimony will be introduced into evidence as well - texts telling him to hurry up, etc.
To get out of that box, AH will have to argue the jury should have a reasonable doubt as to the accomplice's testimony. That will be hard to do with the shit ton of additional evidence that corroborates his story.
While he won't "technically" have to testify or explain what happened, in light of what the accomplice is going to say, plus all of those circumstantial and corroborative facts, I believe a jury will more or less want to know what occurred - i.e., what AH was doing driving around, when he last saw Lloyd, etc. If the defense can't even suggest a reasonable theory as to what happened, they're dead in the water.
It's possible some oddball facts will come out. Say, just as a hypothetical, that another group of armed men (dealers or buyers) were shown to be on the scene. Or that Lloyd owed lots of money to some third party and was in fear for his life. Something like that might give the defense some traction. (They'd still have to account for the forensics - an execution style multiple shot killing.)
However, I doubt those kinds of facts will be there, or that they'll work in a way to contradict the state's theory of the case.
So he's going down. If the gun's recovered and there's AH's DNA on it, he'll just go down faster.
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