Alcohol and Athletes; Gronk's injuries in a 16 oz can

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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I've been saying for a long time that his alcohol consumption is a big contributor to his injuries. It wreaks havoc on your body, and not just if you drank the night before a game. A night out on Sunday can have a big effect on hydration throughout the whole week, especially for professional athletes that are constantly sweating and cycling through fluids quickly. Even 1-2 beers to "relax" during the week severely fucks with your hydration levels. People take alcohol way, way too lightly when it comes to the effect even the slightest amount can have on physical activity.

And while he mentioned that he doesn't "really" drink during the season, I know first-hand from people that've been at events and parties with him in the past (granted, we're talking 3+ years ago) that he's gone down the road of complete obliteration on several occasions during the season. Maybe not as of late, but 100% for sure during the first half of his career.

I'm really interested in seeing how his improved eating habits and a presumed focus on additional stretching (something Brady's talked extensively about in the past) will help him this season. If his back is 100% healthy I won't be shocked at all if he plays 19 games.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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BTW, any SoSH eye-witness accounts of camp over the last few weeks? Usually I feel like more people are posting their own reactions to what they're seeing, but that doesn't feel as common this year.

I'm out in Denver and away from local radio and television, so any camp-related thoughts by way of SoSH are good to hear.
 

Stitch01

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I've been saying for a long time that his alcohol consumption is a big contributor to his injuries. It wreaks havoc on your body, and not just if you drank the night before a game. A night out on Sunday can have a big effect on hydration throughout the whole week, especially for professional athletes that are constantly sweating and cycling through fluids quickly. Even 1-2 beers to "relax" during the week severely fucks with your hydration levels. People take alcohol way, way too lightly when it comes to the effect even the slightest amount can have on physical activity.

And while he mentioned that he doesn't "really" drink during the season, I know first-hand from people that've been at events and parties with him in the past (granted, we're talking 3+ years ago) that he's gone down the road of complete obliteration on several occasions during the season. Maybe not as of late, but 100% for sure during the first half of his career.

I'm really interested in seeing how his improved eating habits and a presumed focus on additional stretching (something Brady's talked extensively about in the past) will help him this season. If his back is 100% healthy I won't be shocked at all if he plays 19 games.
One flaw in your theory is that Gronk is not close to an outlier when it comes to in season alcohol consumption on the Patriots. Im glad he's looking for ways to better take care of himself, but we really dont have any basis for making any sort of definitive statement that alcohol consumption contributed to Gronk's injuries.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Yeah I'm not sure a few less beers would have saved his ass when TJ Ward was flying at his knees, but I buy the overall thesis that no booze for a high level athlete is ideal.
 

Bowhemian

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Yeah I'm not sure a few less beers would have saved his ass when TJ Ward was flying at his knees, but I buy the overall thesis that no booze for a high level athlete is ideal.
And it's a good thing Brady was a complete non-drinker when POLLARD blew out his knee. It could have been a LOT worse! [/sarcasm]

Edit: It was Pollard, not TJ Ward you dumbass. I am the dumbass, not CN.
 
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bakahump

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Maybe we are looking at this Backwards?
If TJ Ward And Pollard had had a couple bad Saturday nights drinking then Gronk and Bradys injury history would look much brighter.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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It always amuses me how pissed people get here when you point out that excessive drinking may have been a contributor to Gronk's injuries.

Like drinking and injuries are any secret for people that've spent any time in the gym whatsoever.
 

Stitch01

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It always amuses me when people single out Gronk for doing something like 98% of NFL players do.

Like NFL players besides Gronk drinking is a secret for people who have spent any time at all in the company of 20 somethings.
 

cornwalls@6

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Apr 23, 2010
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It always amuses me how pissed people get here when you point out that excessive drinking may have been a contributor to Gronk's injuries.

Like drinking and injuries are any secret for people that've spent any time in the gym whatsoever.
Who exactly was pissed? You pretty much stated hard causation between his drinking and his injuries, without any actual data or links to credible studies I would add, and a couple of people questioned you on it, one in a mildly snarky/tongue in cheek way. You may very well be correct about the link between drinking and injuries, but this is a data/evidence driven sight. Having your anecdotal opinion challenged is well within the bounds of what regularly goes on here.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Sep 12, 2003
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I've been saying for a long time that his alcohol consumption is a big contributor to his injuries. It wreaks havoc on your body, and not just if you drank the night before a game. A night out on Sunday can have a big effect on hydration throughout the whole week, especially for professional athletes that are constantly sweating and cycling through fluids quickly. Even 1-2 beers to "relax" during the week severely fucks with your hydration levels. People take alcohol way, way too lightly when it comes to the effect even the slightest amount can have on physical activity.

And while he mentioned that he doesn't "really" drink during the season, I know first-hand from people that've been at events and parties with him in the past (granted, we're talking 3+ years ago) that he's gone down the road of complete obliteration on several occasions during the season. Maybe not as of late, but 100% for sure during the first half of his career.

I'm really interested in seeing how his improved eating habits and a presumed focus on additional stretching (something Brady's talked extensively about in the past) will help him this season. If his back is 100% healthy I won't be shocked at all if he plays 19 games.
Can you please source your claim that one or two beers can "severely" fuck your hydration level?

Sent from my XT1650 using SoSH mobile app
 

Stitch01

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Who exactly was pissed? You pretty much stated hard causation between his drinking and his injuries, without any actual data or links to credible studies I would add, and a couple of people questioned you on it, one in a mildly snarky/tongue in cheek way. You may very well be correct about the link between drinking and injuries, but this is a data/evidence driven sight. Having your anecdotal opinion challenged is well within the bounds of what regularly goes on here.
Pretty much this, I would dispute that we have evidence that Gronk drinks excessively or that it is linked to his injury history. Happy if Gronk has found improvements in training, but the linked article quotes Gronk saying "yeah, coffee and alcohol arent changes for me, dont use them much in season". Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, but seems like something we have pretty much no data or information on.
 

Pandemonium67

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Mitchell took a friendly fire hit to the knee at the end of pass play to O'Shaghnessy. Helmet to side of knee. ...
Was Mitchell drinking? O'Shaugnessy?

Facetiousness aside, I am psyched that Gronk is trying out Brady's stretching and flexiblity techniques. Glad he's following the diet too, but the flexibility seems like something that could really pay off.

Gronk is a monster who plays hard and will absorb huge hits. The more he can do to condition his body to handle the hits and recover, the better. I want him to turn things around and have a long career.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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Can you please source your claim that one or two beers can "severely" fuck your hydration level?
I'm sure all you'll do is play around with the semantics of using the word "severely," but because you asked, here you go:

Beer, in particular, affects the fast-twitch anaerobic fibers by inhibiting an enzyme that helps fuel the muscle. When that happens, the fibers don't adapt like they should for up to three days. The result: a longer recovery period.
https://www.outsideonline.com/1928696/truth-about-post-workout-beer

Again, anyone that lifts weights regularly knows that even two beers the night before will have an effect on your next workout; or, at least, a noticeable effect from if you'd never had a beer at all.

Recovery time, as "sourced" to your demands above, is also affected. And when you're not fully recovered and then you subject yourself to the demands of NFL-level practices and weight sessions, you're opening yourself up to a higher probability of physical injury.

This isn't rocket science. I love how people pile on like I'm being some giant asshole by SUGGESTING that Gronk's drinking habits likely increased his chance of injury.

You're all demanding proof yet the best quarterback of all-time that plays for your freakin' home team that's had an unbelievable run of good health doesn't drink for a reason. Looking at TB12, how can you actually argue at all that I'm being unreasonable? I get that you all adore Gronk (we all do), but use some common sense and stop acting like some helicopter parent when someone questions one of his known bad habits and how it may have affected his health.

BTW, pointing out how many "other" young players in the NFL drink is an obnoxiously-dumb counterpoint for pretty obvious reasons. I mean...really? Other players get hurt all the time - how can a message boarder prove which were direct or maybe indirect results related to alcohol consumption? Talk about a straw man.

These types of "debates" can never be won on SoSH because I could post a hundred links but the ultimate comeback will always be something along the lines of "well, other people get hurt!" or "how do you know whether Gronk drinks 1-2 beers or 20 beers!" These conversations never go anywhere.
 
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NickEsasky

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I'm sure all you'll do is play around with the semantics of using the word "severely," but because you asked, here you go:



https://www.outsideonline.com/1928696/truth-about-post-workout-beer

Again, anyone that lifts weights regularly knows that even two beers the night before will have an effect on your next workout; or, at least, a noticeable effect from if you'd never had a beer at all.

Recovery time, as "sourced" to your demands above, is also affected. And when you're not fully recovered and then you subject yourself to the demands of NFL-level practices and weight sessions, you're opening yourself up to a higher probability of physical injury.

This isn't rocket science. I love how people pile on like I'm being some giant asshole by SUGGESTING that Gronk's drinking habits likely increased his chance of injury.

You're all demanding proof yet the best quarterback of all-time that plays for your freakin' home team that's had an unbelievable run of good health doesn't drink for a reason. Looking at TB12, how can you actually argue at all that I'm being unreasonable? I get that you all adore Gronk (we all do), but use some common sense and stop acting like some helicopter parent when someone questions one of his known bad habits and how it may have affected his health.

BTW, pointing out how many "other" young players in the NFL drink is an obnoxiously-dumb counterpoint for pretty obvious reasons. I mean...really? Other players get hurt all the time - how can a message boarder prove which were direct or maybe indirect results related to alcohol consumption? Talk about a straw man.

These types of "debates" can never be won on SoSH because I could post a hundred links but the ultimate comeback will always be something along the lines of "well, other people get hurt!" or "how do you know whether Gronk drinks 1-2 beers or 20 beers!" These conversations never go anywhere.
So if Gronk was a teetotaler he wouldn't have torn his knee up, fractured his back, or broken his arm? Is there a study that shows drinking beers in your 20s causes osteoporosis?
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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So if Gronk was a teetotaler he wouldn't have torn his knee up, fractured his back, or broken his arm? Is there a study that shows drinking beers in your 20s causes osteoporosis?
And this is why I actually contemplated not replying at all.

Just as I mentioned, anything I provide as any source of proof that alcohol consumption increases injury risk for athletes will only be met with sarcasm from people that don't really want to know the truth, they just want to coddle Gronk.

I'll go back to mostly lurking, because most of the posters engaging in this topic don't actually want to listen to (well, read), interpret, and consider my point, they just want to protect their own because their egos dominate their common sense.
 

NickEsasky

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And this is why I actually contemplated not replying at all.

Just as I mentioned, anything I provide as any source of proof that alcohol consumption increases injury risk for athletes will only be met with sarcasm from people that don't really want to know the truth, they just want to coddle Gronk.

I'll go back to mostly lurking, because most of the posters engaging in this topic don't actually want to listen to (well, read), interpret, and consider my point, they just want to protect their own because their egos dominate their common sense.
What you are posting can certainly be true and it can also have 0 to do with Gronk's injuries is the point. I think most here would admit for an elite athlete playing at the highest level, drinking is probably not the best idea. However, I don't think Gronk's alcohol consumption has had anything to do with the big injuries he has suffered in his career. If Gronk was constantly missing time with hamstring pulls, I'd be right there with you trust me.
 

Dogman

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Esasky's (and others) point is simple. Gronk's injuries are a result of big, large, strong, men crashing into him at full speed and injuring him. No amount of not drinking has any effect on that, like zero. To make it far less anecdotal, others raised the Brady/Pollard injury and how Brady doesn't drink or rarely drinks(as you mention). The point was clear in that a big, large, strong, man crashed into Brady and injured him just like big, large, strong men crash into and injure Gronk.

You have been beating this drum for years. Initially it was "MY FRIENDS SAW GRONKY PARTYING AND BOOGARSUGAR AND THIS IS WHY GRONK GET HURTY". When posters, myself included, laughed at the assertion and asked for more than anecdotal evidence that you weren't easily hoodwinked by people you know, you backed off. Now, it's because Gronk is a boozebag during the season because "FRIENDS SEE HIM PARTYING ON GAMENIGHTS, IM GULLIBLE" and a few beers in a week makes him suddenly more injury prone, irrespective of big, large, strong men crash into him while attempting to tackle him. To support your hypothesis, you finally provided a link but you still are beating the same GRONK GET INJURED BECAUSE PARRRRTTTTYYYYYYYY and not because of big, large, strong. men.

Does drinking affect one's hydration? Yep. Recovery? Yep. Is Gronk having a beer or three change anything about big, large, strong, men injuring him? Fucking nope.

Your posts made me make a big, large, strong, drink. Cheers.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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What you are posting can certainly be true and it can also have 0 to do with Gronk's injuries is the point. I think most here would admit for an elite athlete playing at the highest level, drinking is probably not the best idea. However, I don't think Gronk's alcohol consumption has had anything to do with the big injuries he has suffered in his career. If Gronk was constantly missing time with hamstring pulls, I'd be right there with you trust me.
I think this is actually a fair statement.

But it isn't any more or less accurate than mine - which is my point. From everything I've ever read (and experienced over more than a decade of natural bodybuilding), dehydration caused by anything - excessive caffeine intake, alcohol consumption, poor water intake, or a combination of all of the above - can have a direct effect on musculoskeletal health throughout the entirety of the human body. This is exactly why Brady is obsessive about electrolyte intake and avoiding caffeine and alcohol completely. And for him, it's clearly worked.

Now, TJ Ward diving into Gronk's knee and bending it sideways has obviously nothing to do with hydration or nutrition levels. But could his lower back, which is supported by flexors that could absolutely have diminished functionality if not properly hydrated and nutritionally supplemented, experience repeated injuries in part due to poor dietary habits?

Absolutely.

I'm not saying that's what's DEFINITELY going on. No one can say anything definitively either way - maybe not even Gronk's PCP - but to dismiss it altogether as a very real possible culprit is admitting complete negligence regarding the correlation between muscularskeletal health and diuretics (particularly ones that can affect nutrient absorption).

Alcohol has been normalized in society, but the truth is it's horrendously damaging for a number of reasons, particularly for athletes.
 

H78

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H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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Esasky's (and others) point is simple. Gronk's injuries are a result of big, large, strong, men crashing into him at full speed and injuring him. No amount of not drinking has any effect on that, like zero. To make it far less anecdotal, others raised the Brady/Pollard injury and how Brady doesn't drink or rarely drinks(as you mention). The point was clear in that a big, large, strong, man crashed into Brady and injured him just like big, large, strong men crash into and injure Gronk.

You have been beating this drum for years. Initially it was "MY FRIENDS SAW GRONKY PARTYING AND BOOGARSUGAR AND THIS IS WHY GRONK GET HURTY". When posters, myself included, laughed at the assertion and asked for more than anecdotal evidence that you weren't easily hoodwinked by people you know, you backed off. Now, it's because Gronk is a boozebag during the season because "FRIENDS SEE HIM PARTYING ON GAMENIGHTS, IM GULLIBLE" and a few beers in a week makes him suddenly more injury prone, irrespective of big, large, strong men crash into him while attempting to tackle him. To support your hypothesis, you finally provided a link but you still are beating the same GRONK GET INJURED BECAUSE PARRRRTTTTYYYYYYYY and not because of big, large, strong. men.

Does drinking affect one's hydration? Yep. Recovery? Yep. Is Gronk having a beer or three change anything about big, large, strong, men injuring him? Fucking nope.

Your posts made me make a big, large, strong, drink. Cheers.
I didn't want to say anything because for years I had a direct connection with someone involved with the team, and I'm not going to name drop on SoSH.

You don't have to believe it. I'd prefer if you didn't.

But nice post. Take a step back, sip on whatever drink you poured yourself (you clearly could use it), and read the one two above this one.
 
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Dogman

Yukon Cornelius
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I did. Learn to take some flak, bud. You have no need to be delicate here. You get offended quicker than Gronk entering a nightclub.

There are others on the board who also have people directly involved with the team. I trust those sources much, much more than yours.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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I did. Learn to take some flak, bud. You have no need to be delicate here. You get offended quicker than Gronk entering a nightclub.

There are others on the board who also have people directly involved with the team. I trust those sources much, much more than yours.
Fair enough.

I'm sure those sources give you all sorts of information related to the correlation between alcohol/hydration and injuries, and thus none of my posts deserve any thoughtful consideration.

Heh.

I will say this, and yes, it's a shot: it takes about 20 minutes of interaction on this board sometimes to remember why I absolutely do not miss the city of Boston. You make one innocuous point and if it's in any way questionable of a hometown sports hero, you immediately see people at their worse.

Onto training camp.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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H78... You obviously have a problem with people (not just Gronk) drinking. You have a preconceived notion of alcohol. Do you see this bias?

Sent from my XT1650 using SoSH mobile app
What?

I drink. Check out the craft beer thread. My avatar is a brewery!

I'm just making an objective statement free from any sort of personal bias of a hobby, and for some reason that's incomprehensible to people.
 

InstaFace

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I'm sure all you'll do is play around with the semantics of using the word "severely,"...
These types of "debates" can never be won on SoSH because I could post a hundred links but the ultimate comeback will always be <...> These conversations never go anywhere.
I'll go back to mostly lurking, because most of the posters engaging in this topic don't actually want to listen to (well, read), interpret, and consider my point, they just want to protect their own because their egos dominate their common sense.
You don't have to believe it. I'd prefer if you didn't.

But nice post.
I will say this, and yes, it's a shot: it takes about 20 minutes of interaction on this board sometimes to remember why I absolutely do not miss the city of Boston. You make one innocuous point and if it's in any way questionable of a hometown sports hero, you immediately see people at their worse.
I'm just making an objective statement free from any sort of personal bias of a hobby, and for some reason that's incomprehensible to people.
Dude, I think your victim card is maxed out.

...but yeah, it's totally just Boston.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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Dude, I think your victim card is maxed out.

...but yeah, it's totally just Boston.
What I'm trying to point out is that my point about alcohol and injuries was not aggressive nor was it meant to stir some huge argument, but that's how it progressed because it's not a Yankee or Bronco or Canadien at the center of the conversation, and in Boston you protect the laundry so hard that anyone questioning the local guy for *anything* is immediately relegated to "JACKASS/THIN SKINNED/VICTIM-WHINING/etc."

I mean, what have I done in here that's so egregious prior to my Boston shot? Seriously?

Yet look at the replies.

Also, FWIW, the last thing I think anyone on this site views me as is a "victim." I'm just in awe of how pissed people get over a small point based somewhat on non-NFL personal experience and years and years of nutritional research and dietary approaches.
 

GregHarris

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Just as I mentioned, anything I provide as any source of proof that alcohol consumption increases injury risk for athletes will only be met with sarcasm from people that don't really want to know the truth, they just want to coddle Gronk.
I'd welcome information on a study beyond "that guy I know" or otherwise anecdotal. What's the cutoff point? How many drinks per week is safe? What exactly is the physiological cause? I am a craft beer addict and beginner wino. This doesn't bode well for my running career.
 

Mooch

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Alcohol has been normalized in society, but the truth is it's horrendously damaging for a number of reasons, particularly for athletes.
For some people, yes and others, no. Michael Jordan used to pound beers in the locker room after games and he is the greatest athlete I've ever seen and never broke down physically. Larry Bird did the same and I'm sure that you could make the argument that it may have contributed to his various back woes that ended his career. Every drug (alcohol included) affects people differently based on their individual body chemistry. This is not a "one size fits all" type of thing.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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I'd welcome information on a study beyond "that guy I know" or otherwise anecdotal. What's the cutoff point? How many drinks per week is safe? What exactly is the physiological cause? I am a craft beer addict and beginner wino. This doesn't bode well for my running career.
Dude, there's a link several posts up.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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For some people, yes and others, no. Michael Jordan used to pound beers in the locker room after games and he is the greatest athlete I've ever seen and never broke down physically. Larry Bird did the same and I'm sure that you could make the argument that it may have contributed to his various back woes that ended his career. Every drug (alcohol included) affects people differently based on their individual body chemistry. This is not a "one size fits all" type of thing.
That's not an unfair statement at all. I think we're more in agreement than you may realize.
 

GregHarris

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Dude, there's a link several posts up.
That link from OutsideTheLines citing an abstract, not a peer reviewed study, that one? Notice the massive disclaimer in it:
yet it is often expected and recommended that athletes abstain from alcohol to avoid the negative impact this drug may have on recovery and sporting performance. While this recommendation may seem sensible, the impact alcohol has on recovery and sports performance is complicated and depends on many factors, including the timing of alcohol consumption post-exercise, recovery time required before recommencing training/competition, injury status and dose of alcohol being consumed.
There is very little data here, but a "general" recommendation - and it's a huge jump in linking excessive or even moderate consumption directly to injury. The biggest thing I got out of it is that excessive drinking may delay recovery. Of course there is no data here to support it.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I didn't want to say anything because for years I had a direct connection with someone involved with the team, and I'm not going to name drop on SoSH.

You don't have to believe it. I'd prefer if you didn't.

But nice post. Take a step back, sip on whatever drink you poured yourself (you clearly could use it), and read the one two above this one.
Is it DoritoDink? I really want it to be DoritoDink.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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That link from OutsideTheLines citing an abstract, not a peer reviewed study, that one? Notice the massive disclaimer in it:

There is very little data here, but a "general" recommendation - and it's a huge jump in linking excessive or even moderate consumption directly to injury. The biggest thing I got out of it is that excessive drinking may delay recovery. Of course there is no data here to support it.
Again, your ego is getting in the way of your common sense.

If recovery is delayed, what's more probable the next time you use the same muscle group?

Connect the dots with me. I believe in you.

And as it pertains to your running, yes, you may want to take it easy on booze:

If you’re vying for a spot on the podium, you might want to abstain while in training. Various studies suggest that alcohol intake leads to dehydration (anyone who has ever suffered from a hangover knows this), decreases uptake of glucose and amino acids by the skeletal muscles, adversely affects the body’s energy supply, and impairs metabolic processes during exercise.
https://www.runnersworld.com/fuel-school/can-a-drink-hurt-my-running-performance

Do you need more links or are your Google skills as good as mine?

BTW, before you say "well, it says if you're just drinking moderately it may not have a big effect on performance unless you're essentially a professional athlete..." consider the type of football player that Rob Gronkowski is.

Okay, fire away everyone else, this is a silly topic to continue debating and I'm somewhat feeling trolled by people that question the correlation between alcohol and the body's ability to perform and hold up as a professional athlete. SoSH has a lot of smart people and there's no way something this obvious can continue to prove so confusing to the posters here...

...especially when their favorite athlete of all time heavily abstains from alcohol use for the exact reasons I'm stating, yet people still want to argue the point as if TB12 himself has no idea what the hell he's doing.
 

GregHarris

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Still calling bullshit without evidence, but whatevs. Keep defending yourself, tho.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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What I'm trying to point out is that my point about alcohol and injuries was not aggressive nor was it meant to stir some huge argument, but that's how it progressed because it's not a Yankee or Bronco or Canadien at the center of the conversation, and in Boston you protect the laundry so hard that anyone questioning the local guy for *anything* is immediately relegated to "JACKASS/THIN SKINNED/VICTIM-WHINING/etc."

I mean, what have I done in here that's so egregious prior to my Boston shot? Seriously?

Yet look at the replies.

Also, FWIW, the last thing I think anyone on this site views me as is a "victim." I'm just in awe of how pissed people get over a small point based somewhat on non-NFL personal experience and years and years of nutritional research and dietary approaches.
The problem is that you've shifted the goal posts. Alcohol effects recovery and dehydrates. We all are aware of this. But that wasn't your original point, which you made in back to back posts:

I've been saying for a long time that his alcohol consumption is a big contributor to his injuries. It wreaks havoc on your body, and not just if you drank the night before a game. A night out on Sunday can have a big effect on hydration throughout the whole week, especially for professional athletes that are constantly sweating and cycling through fluids quickly. Even 1-2 beers to "relax" during the week severely fucks with your hydration levels. People take alcohol way, way too lightly when it comes to the effect even the slightest amount can have on physical activity.
It always amuses me how pissed people get here when you point out that excessive drinking may have been a contributor to Gronk's injuries.
Twice you made the point that alcohol contributed to Gronk's injuries. Not that alcohol can contribute to injuries, but that they specifically contributed to Gronk's injuries.

It was then asked which of his injuries did alcohol contribute towards? His herniated disks, broken arm, ACL tear, or the pulmonary contusion after Earl Thomas nearly killed him? Your answer was that you were done posting here, everyone in Boston is a thin-skinned baby, and everyone is a honk.

Cut it out.

By the way, you could have saved a little face if you mentioned the pulled hammy he had last year that made him miss the first two games of the season, but you seemed dead set on playing victim instead of actually defending the statement you made (or admitting that your statement was faulty, which would probably have been better).
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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He's never mentioned H78, but that's hardly definitive.

I'm self-reporting this post in hopes that a Dope will break this tangent into a new thread.
It's actually a good BLTS candidate, as a lot of people that regularly post in there could probably offer more insight into the correlation between alcohol and athletic performance.
 
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H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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The problem is that you've shifted the goal posts. Alcohol effects recovery and dehydrates. We all are aware of this. But that wasn't your original point, which you made in back to back posts:



Twice you made the point that alcohol contributed to Gronk's injuries. Not that alcohol can contribute to injuries, but that they specifically contributed to Gronk's injuries.

It was then asked which of his injuries did alcohol contribute towards? His herniated disks, broken arm, ACL tear, or the pulmonary contusion after Earl Thomas nearly killed him? Your answer was that you were done posting here, everyone in Boston is a thin-skinned baby, and everyone is a honk. Cut it out.

By the way, you could have saved a little face if you mentioned the pulled hammy in he had last year that made him miss the first two games of the season, but you seemed dead set on playing victim instead of actually defending the statement you made (or admitting that your statement was faulty, which would probably have been better).
Dude this entire post is an over-simplified lie. The very post you quoted has me saying that Gronk's injuries *MAY* - M-A-Y!! - have a link to alcohol.

My hunch is it's not WHAT I said that pissed people off, it's the WAY I said it ("It always amused me how pissed people get..."). Because God forbid you try and share knowledge on this board when everyone's already an expert about everything. Also, later I made a lengthy post talking specifically about the back injury!

Seriously, that was just pretty douchey of you to do - you completely tried to change the narrative and what I talked about to try and smear my posts and this conversation. Hopefully people read the actual thread and not your summary of how it went, because that's totally unfair.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
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Nov 17, 2010
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Dude this entire post is an over-simplified lie. The very post you quoted has me saying that Gronk's injuries *MAY* - M-A-Y!! - have a link to alcohol.

My hunch is it's not WHAT I said that pissed people off, it's the WAY I said it ("It always amused me how pissed people get..."). And later I made a lengthy post talking specifically about the back injury!

Seriously, that was just pretty douchey of you to do - you completely tried to change the narrative and what I talked about to try and smear my posts and this conversation. Hopefully people read the actual thread and not your summary of how it went, because that's totally unfair.
The quote function fucked up, so the first quote you made didn't post. I fixed it. It read:

"I've been saying for a long time that his alcohol consumption is a big contributor to his injuries. "

There is no "may" in your statement. You've said - for a very long time, in fact - that his alcohol consumption IS A BIG CONTRIBUTOR TO HIS INJURIES.

It is really, really, crystal clear what point you were trying to make.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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The quote function fucked up, so the first quote you made didn't post. I fixed it. It read:

"I've been saying for a long time that his alcohol consumption is a big contributor to his injuries. "

There is no may in your opinion. You've said - for a very long time, in fact - that his alcohol consumption IS A BIG CONTRIBUTOR TO HIS INJURIES.

It really, really, isn't more crystal clear what point you were trying to make.
I've always made the argument that in my opinion that's the factor. I'm not a freakin' doctor, I've never said it's DEFINITELY the lone cause. That's your interpretation. Don't put that on me. That's totally unfair.
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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Also, note the word "contributor," and realize how that's different from the word "cause."
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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Think of it this way: if I pull my back weightlifting, the cause of the injury was weightlifting.

If I had five beers the night before, the alcohol and subsequent dehydration is a contributor to the injury.

Dear God that's all I'm saying.

Damn.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,427
I've always made the argument that in my opinion that's the factor. I'm not a freakin' doctor, I've never said it's DEFINITELY the lone cause. That's your interpretation. Don't put that on me. That's totally unfair.
Is this fucking real life?

You made the statement that Gronks injuries were due to his drinking. People asked which injuries. You freaked out. Now you're upset because you're not a doctor and you shouldn't have to defend your point?

Seriously, I have no fucking clue what's going on right now.

Also, note the word "contributor," and realize how that's different from the word "cause."
Gotcha. So...the drinking contributed to these major injuries how? And if it's some flimsy-ass, "He was dehydrated and tired, so his responses may have been delayed in protecting himself" kind of Skip Bayless bullshit, I swear to god...
 

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
6,668
What I'm trying to point out is that my point about alcohol and injuries was not aggressive nor was it meant to stir some huge argument, but that's how it progressed because it's not a Yankee or Bronco or Canadien at the center of the conversation, and in Boston you protect the laundry so hard that anyone questioning the local guy for *anything* is immediately relegated to "JACKASS/THIN SKINNED/VICTIM-WHINING/etc."

I mean, what have I done in here that's so egregious prior to my Boston shot? Seriously?

Yet look at the replies.

Also, FWIW, the last thing I think anyone on this site views me as is a "victim." I'm just in awe of how pissed people get over a small point based somewhat on non-NFL personal experience and years and years of nutritional research and dietary approaches.
To be clear, my problem with your original post is not that it was aggressive nor that it was negative about my hometown hero. My problem with your original post is that it was worded very poorly and that it makes many jumps of logic.

Want to break it down?

I've been saying for a long time that his alcohol consumption is a big contributor to his injuries.
In my opinion, alcohol consumption may be a factor in his injury history, but if it is a factor it is a really tiny factor. The fact that football is a very violent sport is probably the biggest contributor to his injury history.

It wreaks havoc on your body, and not just if you drank the night before a game. A night out on Sunday can have a big effect on hydration throughout the whole week, especially for professional athletes that are constantly sweating and cycling through fluids quickly. Even 1-2 beers to "relax" during the week severely fucks with your hydration levels.
You say that one or two beers over the course of a week can severely impact that athlete's hydration levels and you imply that this impact to the athlete's hydration levels based on one or two beers consumed perhaps five nights prior will be a big contributor to the athlete's propensity to become injured.

You are making like five leaps of logic here. Does the impact of one or two beers over the course of a week directly impact the hydration levels of an athlete on game day? Maybe. If so, how much does the beer consumption impact the athlete's hydration levels on game date? Further, how much of an impact will the athlete's hydration levels have on the athlete's propensity to be injured during the game?
 

H78

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Jul 22, 2009
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Is this fucking real life?

You made the statement that Gronks injuries were due to his drinking. People asked which injuries. You freaked out. Now you're upset because you're not a doctor and you shouldn't have to defend your point?

Gotcha. So...the drinking contributed to these major injuries how? And if it's some flimsy-ass, "He was dehydrated and tired, so his responses may have been delayed in protecting himself" kind of Skip Bayless bullshit, I swear to god...
Did you read either of these posts?

I'm sure all you'll do is play around with the semantics of using the word "severely," but because you asked, here you go:

https://www.outsideonline.com/1928696/truth-about-post-workout-beer

Again, anyone that lifts weights regularly knows that even two beers the night before will have an effect on your next workout; or, at least, a noticeable effect from if you'd never had a beer at all.

Recovery time, as "sourced" to your demands above, is also affected. And when you're not fully recovered and then you subject yourself to the demands of NFL-level practices and weight sessions, you're opening yourself up to a higher probability of physical injury.

This isn't rocket science. I love how people pile on like I'm being some giant asshole by SUGGESTING that Gronk's drinking habits likely increased his chance of injury.

You're all demanding proof yet the best quarterback of all-time that plays for your freakin' home team that's had an unbelievable run of good health doesn't drink for a reason. Looking at TB12, how can you actually argue at all that I'm being unreasonable? I get that you all adore Gronk (we all do), but use some common sense and stop acting like some helicopter parent when someone questions one of his known bad habits and how it may have affected his health.

BTW, pointing out how many "other" young players in the NFL drink is an obnoxiously-dumb counterpoint for pretty obvious reasons. I mean...really? Other players get hurt all the time - how can a message boarder prove which were direct or maybe indirect results related to alcohol consumption? Talk about a straw man.

These types of "debates" can never be won on SoSH because I could post a hundred links but the ultimate comeback will always be something along the lines of "well, other people get hurt!" or "how do you know whether Gronk drinks 1-2 beers or 20 beers!" These conversations never go anywhere.
I think this is actually a fair statement.

But it isn't any more or less accurate than mine - which is my point. From everything I've ever read (and experienced over more than a decade of natural bodybuilding), dehydration caused by anything - excessive caffeine intake, alcohol consumption, poor water intake, or a combination of all of the above - can have a direct effect on musculoskeletal health throughout the entirety of the human body. This is exactly why Brady is obsessive about electrolyte intake and avoiding caffeine and alcohol completely. And for him, it's clearly worked.

Now, TJ Ward diving into Gronk's knee and bending it sideways has obviously nothing to do with hydration or nutrition levels. But could his lower back, which is supported by flexors that could absolutely have diminished functionality if not properly hydrated and nutritionally supplemented, experience repeated injuries in part due to poor dietary habits?

Absolutely.

I'm not saying that's what's DEFINITELY going on. No one can say anything definitively either way - maybe not even Gronk's PCP - but to dismiss it altogether as a very real possible culprit is admitting complete negligence regarding the correlation between muscularskeletal health and diuretics (particularly ones that can affect nutrient absorption).

Alcohol has been normalized in society, but the truth is it's horrendously damaging for a number of reasons, particularly for athletes.