Alex Verdugo, new Red Sox star!

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
We can despise the system and the person in that room at the same time.

The athlete development machine that is youth sports churns out young people who, by the time they make it to the top, have been praised and guided and adulated from their early days of sport.

That this system produces people who are pieces of shit cannot be a surprise to you people.

I've sadly accepted you're finally old when you realise your views as a kid on sports - that most athletes are good people and there are a few rotten apples - is the reverse. That any athletes emerge from the asshole factory as contributing members of an ethical social system is actually the great surprise.

Never meet your heroes.
 

opes

Doctor Tongue
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I think we have to give this kid a chance. We don't know all the details and to try and compare him to mookie is ridiculous. He has his value, whatever it is or will be. Let us judge then with more info than what we have.
He may have more involvement in that situation, but we don't know how much. But to release him automatically is quite a stretch. I'm not defending him, but treating this as a Salem's witch trial is a but over the edge at this point.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
The answer for me is zero. But . . .

I can imagine 18 year old me if confronted with a difficult, even obviously wrong, situation shutting down and not knowing quite what to do in the moment. I'd like to think not. And maybe 18 year old me would surprise me. But it's tough for 50 something me to honestly answer that question about 18 year old me.

Of course, all that assumes that he was just a passerby who had no active involvement and got caught up in a situation he didn't anticipate. Which seems dubious or at least questionable. I do feel fairly confident that 18 year old me would not have associated with women that looked to pick up runaways and beat them up, or with guys that assault passed out girls. I don't know the first thing about spring training dynamics and roommate situations and who gravitates towards whom, and all that stuff.

I legitimately hope there's a good explanation here. I'm skeptical there is. It doesn't seem to pass the common sense test, at least if the snippets of information we've been given are correct. But if the question is whether I could imagine a set of facts in which I could at least understand inaction by an 18 year old, it is possible.
To the extent people - of any age - lack the emotional or moral maturity to make the right decisions, that argues in favor of higher standards and stricter punishments.

2 of the last 4 presidents have been credibly accused of rape by multiple people. We just had a week-long national mourning for someone who was very likely a rapist. An accused child rapist just addressed the senate in prime time.

What messages do we send to both survivors or would be perpetrators? By being fans, spending money that goes to their salaries, cheering for them, how complicit are we in a system that really doesn’t demand punishment or growth or expiation?

Maybe if there were lifetime bans or lengthy suspensions and more public shaming, 18 or 20 or 25 year olds would make better decisions.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
To the extent people - of any age - lack the emotional or moral maturity to make the right decisions, that argues in favor of higher standards and stricter punishments.

2 of the last 4 presidents have been credibly accused of rape by multiple people. We just had a week-long national mourning for someone who was very likely a rapist. An accused child rapist just addressed the senate in prime time.

What messages do we send to both survivors or would be perpetrators? By being fans, spending money that goes to their salaries, cheering for them, how complicit are we in a system that really doesn’t demand punishment or growth or expiation?

Maybe if there were lifetime bans or lengthy suspensions and more public shaming, 18 or 20 or 25 year olds would make better decisions.
I get all this but at the same time Verdugo is not Kobe Bryant or James Baldwin. Do you think there shouldn't be a distinction made? By making a distinction, you are marginalizing the crime but at the same time... He's not James Baldwin or Kobe Bryant.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
I get all this but at the same time Verdugo is not Kobe Bryant or James Baldwin. Do you think there shouldn't be a distinction made? By making a distinction, you are marginalizing the crime but at the same time... He's not James Baldwin or Kobe Bryant.
Where am I equating him to either. Baldwin should probably be in jail. Kobe probably should’ve gone to jail. Verdugo I just don’t want on my team, and he probably should’ve been suspended and made to do some advocacy work.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,297
AZ
I get all this but at the same time Verdugo is not Kobe Bryant or James Baldwin. Do you think there shouldn't be a distinction made? By making a distinction, you are marginalizing the crime but at the same time... He's not James Baldwin or Kobe Bryant.
Verdugo might not be James Baldwin. We don't know. He very well may be just as bad.

To be clear, if the question is whether I would excuse an assaulter or an active participant on the grounds that he was 18, no. And my post didn't say that. The question was whether I thought there was space, if he was a non-active participant who got in a situation he didn't expect, to find room to accept remorse from an 18 year old for not taking decisive action.

I made similar arguments in the Sandusky threads and they went over like a lead balloon. It as about McCreary -- or whatever his name was -- the guy who saw abuse in the shower and didn't do anything about it at the time. I found it startling how many internet heroes there were who were absolutely positive they would have grabbed a nine iron and beaten the shit out of Sandusky. The truth is everyone thinks that about him- or herself. Most people don't rise to the occasion. Everyone thinks they would not have been complicit with the Nazis. Virtually everyone was.

I think Marciano's argument is that maybe there would be more heroes if we started raising the standards. It's an argument that I want think more about. 18 is young. But I get what he is saying.

More fundamentally, this is a complete tangent, and, worse, it is hypothesizing a set of facts about Verdugo's potential non-involvement that seems very remote given what we know. And I tried to make that clear in my post.

And, last, and this is the real important part -- what I'm even doing now is destructive and I get it. Hypothesizing innocent explanations in these circumstances is the very act that makes these shitheads get away with it. It's a close cousin to whataboutism and, so, yeah, this is an ivory tower discussion that I now wish I hadn't really started. I was ruminating about 18 year old me and how fucking young I was and I probably should have just shut the fuck up. Because what we know about the Verdugo story so far is that it seems to be walking like a duck and talking like a duck.
 

JimD

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2001
8,681
Yeah, like I said, I don’t think he lasts the year here. And for good reason, he seems like a massive douchebag with a very serious chance of being something considerably worse.
It depends what comes out. A video would be damning obviously, but if it's nothing more than what we currently know, this may not even make it beyond Internet message boards and a few Twitter folks.
 

CR67dream

blue devils forevah!
Dope
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
7,234
I'm going home
To the extent people - of any age - lack the emotional or moral maturity to make the right decisions, that argues in favor of higher standards and stricter punishments.

2 of the last 4 presidents have been credibly accused of rape by multiple people. We just had a week-long national mourning for someone who was very likely a rapist. An accused child rapist just addressed the senate in prime time.

What messages do we send to both survivors or would be perpetrators? By being fans, spending money that goes to their salaries, cheering for them, how complicit are we in a system that really doesn’t demand punishment or growth or expiation?

Maybe if there were lifetime bans or lengthy suspensions and more public shaming, 18 or 20 or 25 year olds would make better decisions.
As far as I can tell, there are no accusations of assault, sexual or otherwise, leveled at Verdugo. At worst it seems we have someone peripherally involved or perhaps simply adjacent to the alleged behavior. It doesn't excuse him, but it is absolutely a leap that would be envied by a pair of seven-league boots to compare what we know about him to the situations you mentioned in the post I quoted. Again, there is not even an allegation of abuse of any kind leveled at this guy. I think that's pretty important.

I'm not defending him, but treating this as a Salem's witch trial is a but over the edge at this point.
Amen. It's fine to discuss this stuff, but let's be careful with the torches and pitchforks until we know a hell of a lot more than we know here.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Verdugo might not be James Baldwin. We don't know. He very well may be just as bad.

To be clear, if the question is whether I would excuse an assaulter or an active participant on the grounds that he was 18, no. And my post didn't say that. The question was whether I thought there was space, if he was a non-active participant who got in a situation he didn't expect, to find room to accept remorse from an 18 year old for not taking decisive action.

I made similar arguments in the Sandusky threads and they went over like a lead balloon. It as about McCreary -- or whatever his name was -- the guy who saw abuse in the shower and didn't do anything about it at the time. I found it startling how many internet heroes there were who were absolutely positive they would have grabbed a nine iron and beaten the shit out of Sandusky. The truth is everyone thinks that about him- or herself. Most people don't rise to the occasion. Everyone thinks they would not have been complicit with the Nazis. Virtually everyone was.

I think Marciano's argument is that maybe there would be more heroes if we started raising the standards. It's an argument that I want think more about. 18 is young. But I get what he is saying.

More fundamentally, this is a complete tangent, and, worse, it is hypothesizing a set of facts about Verdugo's potential non-involvement that seems very remote given what we know. And I tried to make that clear in my post.

And, last, and this is the real important part -- what I'm even doing now is destructive and I get it. Hypothesizing innocent explanations in these circumstances is the very act that makes these shitheads get away with it. It's a close cousin to whataboutism and, so, yeah, this is an ivory tower discussion that I now wish I hadn't really started. I was ruminating about 18 year old me and how fucking young I was and I probably should have just shut the fuck up. Because what we know about the Verdugo story so far is that it seems to be walking like a duck and talking like a duck.
I think people just want to assign degrees of blame. I think it's pretty clear Verdugo is a douchebag.

Basically the best thing we can say to feel better about the deal is he might not be James Baldwin. Mental gymnastics.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
As far as I can tell, there are no accusations of assault, sexual or otherwise, leveled at Verdugo. At worst it seems we have someone peripherally involved or perhaps simply adjacent to the alleged behavior. It doesn't excuse him, but it is absolutely a leap that would be envied by a pair of seven-league boots to compare what we know about him to the situations you mentioned in the post I quoted. Again, there is not even an allegation of abuse of any kind leveled at this guy. I think that's pretty important.



Amen. It's fine to discuss this stuff, but let's be careful with the torches and pitchforks until we know a hell of a lot more than we know here.

At best, he was black out drunk. The 2nd best scenario:he watched 2 women beat another woman while someone else recorded it and posted it on Snapchat.

He's a douche.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
As far as I can tell, there are no accusations of assault, sexual or otherwise, leveled at Verdugo. At worst it seems we have someone peripherally involved or perhaps simply adjacent to the alleged behavior. It doesn't excuse him, but it is absolutely a leap that would be envied by a pair of seven-league boots to compare what we know about him to the situations you mentioned in the post I quoted. Again, there is not even an allegation of abuse of any kind leveled at this guy. I think that's pretty important.



Amen. It's fine to discuss this stuff, but let's be careful with the torches and pitchforks until we know a hell of a lot more than we know here.
My overarching point is that there are levels of complicity. Obviously, there’s a distinction between what Kobe is accused of doing and what Baldwin is accused of doing and what Verdugo is accused of doing. At the same time, I folded us as fans and society into my post because I think there’s a chain reaction.

I can see someone having a different opinion about where to draw lines and how extenuated behavior and culpability should or should not be. But, in my view, Verdugo was blameworthy that night to a certain extent, and if we as fans overlook that, we share some blame as well for the message that sense and the conduct that ensues.
 

CR67dream

blue devils forevah!
Dope
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
7,234
I'm going home
At best, he was black out drunk. The 2nd best scenario:he watched 2 women beat another woman while someone else recorded it and posted it on Snapchat.

He's a douche.
Most MLB players are douches. He seems to be on the high end of the scale. Is anyone disputing that?

As far as what you claim, so what if he was blackout drunk? If that's really all it was, what the fuck are we talking about here? Nothing to be proud of, but come on.Your second scenario is nothing but speculation based on whatever little and questionably reliable information we have. There are a whole host of scenarios that could have played out that night. We just don't know, and given no one has even suggested Verdugo put his hands on anybody, the level of outrage here is way out of proportion.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Most MLB players are douches. He seems to be on the high end of the scale. Is anyone disputing that?

As far as what you claim, so what if he was blackout drunk? If that's really all it was, what the fuck are we talking about here? Nothing to be proud of, but come on.Your second scenario is nothing but speculation based on whatever little and questionably reliable information we have. There are a whole host of scenarios that could have played out that night. We just don't know, and given no one has even suggested Verdugo put his hands on anybody, the level of outrage here is way out of proportion.
I don't know why it matters if he puts his hands on anyone. People hire hit men, are they not committing crimes?
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,386
My overarching point is that there are levels of complicity. Obviously, there’s a distinction between what Kobe is accused of doing and what Baldwin is accused of doing and what Verdugo is accused of doing. At the same time, I folded us as fans and society into my post because I think there’s a chain reaction.

I can see someone having a different opinion about where to draw lines and how extenuated behavior and culpability should or should not be. But, in my view, Verdugo was blameworthy that night to a certain extent, and if we as fans overlook that, we share some blame as well for the message that sense and the conduct that ensues.
What, specifically, is Verdugo accused of doing? To my knowledge from the reports, he hasn't been accused of anything. I mean, HERE he is, but the woman who was victimized didn't accuse him of anything. The police didn't accuse him of anything.
 

CR67dream

blue devils forevah!
Dope
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
7,234
I'm going home
I don't know why it matters if he puts his hands on anyone. People hire hit men, are they not committing crimes?
Are you kidding me with this? We're talking about alleged assaults, both physical and sexual. Of course it matters as it relates to Verdugo.

And what's with the hitman analogy?You're not seriously suggesting there's a shred of evidence that Verdugo paid for this to be done?
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Are you kidding me with this? We're talking about alleged assaults, both physical and sexual. Of course it matters as it relates to Verdugo.

And what's with the hitman analogy?You're not seriously suggesting there's a shred of evidence that Verdugo paid for this to be done?
If I hired a hitman, I didn't lay a hand on the victim. Why does it matter if he laid a hand on her? If he knew what his teammate was gong to do, that's ok because he didn't touch her?
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,424
I get all that. I just think there’s way too many unknowns here. Keep in mind that I’ve shared recently that my daughter was raped in college last year so I’m not too keen on giving guys the benefit of the doubt here. I’m really just trying to see this situation as clearly as possible.

No question Verdugo is, at a Barr minimum, guilty of some pretty terrible judgment. Whether he’s guilty of more than that...I haven’t seen the evidence for that. The real bad guy here is Baldwin. And maybe Verdugo too... it’s just that there’s no real evidence of it, to me.

And Baldwin should have his nuts smashed with a hammer for his actions.
I'm truly sorry for what happened to your daughter. That's heinous. I think Baldwin getting his nuts smashed in with a hammer is letting him off easy. Fuck him. Should be in jail. Like you said there's no evidence on anything regarding Verdugo other than he's a piss poor judge of character.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
What, specifically, is Verdugo accused of doing? To my knowledge from the reports, he hasn't been accused of anything. I mean, HERE he is, but the woman who was victimized didn't accuse him of anything. The police didn't accuse him of anything.
We've been over this.

If you want to read the various accounts as Verdugo being unaware or uninvolved in either the sexual assault or the beating, then you can dance between the raindrops and I won't begrudge you that at all. It's plausible, I suppose.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,386
We've been over this.

If you want to read the various accounts as Verdugo being unaware or uninvolved in either the sexual assault or the beating, then you can dance between the raindrops and I won't begrudge you that at all. It's plausible, I suppose.
The point is that even the victim didn’t accuse him of anything. It was her story that he wasn’t even in the room when it happened. Don’t you think that’s kind of important?
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
The point is that even the victim didn’t accuse him of anything. It was her story that he wasn’t even in the room when it happened. Don’t you think that’s kind of important?
For the sexual assault. And I personally think that's important.

If he's only responsible for the beating, he's a douche but he's not beyond redemption. If he's involved in the sexual assault in anyway, fuck him.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
The point is that even the victim didn’t accuse him of anything. It was her story that he wasn’t even in the room when it happened. Don’t you think that’s kind of important?
Yes, it's why he's less culpable than Baldwin. Probably by a good amount. But, he was there when she was being pressured to get drunk, and then he left her alone. Now, maybe he wasn't aware Baldwin was pushing her to drink. Maybe he thought Baldwin was a good dude. Maybe he didn't realize how drunk the girl was when he left the room. Maybe he didn't know the two women who plucked the runaway off Facebook and brought her to the hotel room. Maybe he blacked out during the beating or tried to intervene or wasn't the one taking video and tried to get Baldwin to stop recording and posting. Maybe. All that seems very unlikely to me.

Still, yet again, I'm not saying he should be convicted of a crime or that he even committed one. But, I'm comfortable saying I don't want him on a team I root for, and I think he enabled Baldwin's behavior.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,386
For the sexual assault. And I personally think that's important.

If he's only responsible for the beating, he's a douche but he's not beyond redemption. If he's involved in the sexual assault in anyway, fuck him.
Well yes but if he’s involved in the beating, screw him for that too. But again, no accusation against him there either.

This isn’t me reading anything into the reports. There just literally has been zero accusations against him.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,386
Yes, it's why he's less culpable than Baldwin. Probably by a good amount. But, he was there when she was being pressured to get drunk, and then he left her alone. Now, maybe he wasn't aware Baldwin was pushing her to drink. Maybe he thought Baldwin was a good dude. Maybe he didn't realize how drunk the girl was when he left the room. Maybe he didn't know the two women who plucked the runaway off Facebook and brought her to the hotel room. Maybe he blacked out during the beating or tried to intervene or wasn't the one taking video and tried to get Baldwin to stop recording and posting. Maybe. All that seems very unlikely to me.

Still, yet again, I'm not saying he should be convicted of a crime or that he even committed one. But, I'm comfortable saying I don't want him on a team I root for, and I think he enabled Baldwin's behavior.
Yeah and that’s fair. AB is a major dick too and I didn’t want to root for him either. So I get that.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
This is from the article and makes me wonder why they didn't go through such lengths for Verdugo.


“Urias was apparently with the group at some point during the evening, but people went to great lengths from the onset to avoid having his name involved at all and didn’t even want to ask him any questions about it,” Francona explained.
 

CR67dream

blue devils forevah!
Dope
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
7,234
I'm going home
If I hired a hitman, I didn't lay a hand on the victim. Why does it matter if he laid a hand on her? If he knew what his teammate was gong to do, that's ok because he didn't touch her?
So now you're implying he just knew what was going to happen, but didn't pay anyone? Make up your mind.

And of course if it happened the way you laid it out it wouldn't be OK. Talk about a seven-league leap. The thing is that no one has accused Verdugo of anything resembling active involvement in the alleged behavior, which is sexual assault and physical battery. The elements of those crimes include some level of touching. I have seen nothing alleged that even remotely suggests that there was any conspiracy to harm or allow harm to the victim, so I don't even get what you're trying to accomplish here.

The core point is that Verdugo is not an accused assaulter, sexual or otherwise. That is an important fact in my view. Illustrating that in no way implies that a lesser level of involvement could leave him immune to consequences if there were any evidence of said involvement.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
So now you're implying he just knew what was going to happen, but didn't pay anyone? Make up your mind.

And of course if it happened the way you laid it out it wouldn't be OK. Talk about a seven-league leap. The thing is that no one has accused Verdugo of anything resembling active involvement in the alleged behavior, which is sexual assault and physical battery. The elements of those crimes include some level of touching. I have seen nothing alleged that even remotely suggests that there was any conspiracy to harm or allow harm to the victim, so I don't even get what you're trying to accomplish here.

The core point is that Verdugo is not an accused assaulter, sexual or otherwise. That is an important fact in my view. Illustrating that in no way implies that a lesser level of involvement could leave him immune to consequences if there were any evidence of said involvement.
I didn't imply that at all. I asked you a simple question. Why does it matter if he laid hands on her or not? Oh, you are now saying it doesn't matter. Gotcha.
 

MartyBC

New Member
Jul 22, 2017
50
There are so many articles and links and accusations and opinions that I don't even know what I just read. I feel like I have to read this all over again. I'm exhausted. Is there no devil's advocate to play here? If Verdugo was your son and he said he didn't do anything would you stand by him? Is the only truth what the girl said? I've got two girls in college who like to party and sometimes say and do and think stupid things. It's amazing and not in good way some of the stories they tell me about themselves or their friends or people at this frat party or this sorority party. My girls aren't innocent just because they are girls. Who is to say the girl in this story isn't somehow guilty of a failed scheme? Is that not possible?
 

azsoxpatsfan

Does not enjoy the go
SoSH Member
May 23, 2014
4,774
There are so many articles and links and accusations and opinions that I don't even know what I just read. I feel like I have to read this all over again. I'm exhausted. Is there no devil's advocate to play here? If Verdugo was your son and he said he didn't do anything would you stand by him? Is the only truth what the girl said? I've got two girls in college who like to party and sometimes say and do and think stupid things. It's amazing and not in good way some of the stories they tell me about themselves or their friends or people at this frat party or this sorority party. My girls aren't innocent just because they are girls. Who is to say the girl in this story isn't somehow guilty of a failed scheme? Is that not possible?
There’s a devils advocate position to be played that verdugo was blackout or didn’t know what was happening etc. But the facts make it impossible to think anything other than that a sexual assault occurred. No chance the victim did anything like that
 

CR67dream

blue devils forevah!
Dope
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
7,234
I'm going home
I didn't imply that at all. I asked you a simple question. Why does it matter if he laid hands on her or not? Oh, you are now saying it doesn't matter. Gotcha.
No, you don't. It matters in the context that he's not accused by anyone of sexual assault or physical battery. But I just wrote that.

I also wrote that if he has a lesser involvement that is proven out, he should face consequences.

I really don't get your confusion.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
There are so many articles and links and accusations and opinions that I don't even know what I just read. I feel like I have to read this all over again. I'm exhausted. Is there no devil's advocate to play here? If Verdugo was your son and he said he didn't do anything would you stand by him? Is the only truth what the girl said? I've got two girls in college who like to party and sometimes say and do and think stupid things. It's amazing and not in good way some of the stories they tell me about themselves or their friends or people at this frat party or this sorority party. My girls aren't innocent just because they are girls. Who is to say the girl in this story isn't somehow guilty of a failed scheme? Is that not possible?
Have your girls ever made false sexual assault charges?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,297
AZ
There are so many articles and links and accusations and opinions that I don't even know what I just read. I feel like I have to read this all over again. I'm exhausted. Is there no devil's advocate to play here? If Verdugo was your son and he said he didn't do anything would you stand by him? Is the only truth what the girl said? I've got two girls in college who like to party and sometimes say and do and think stupid things. It's amazing and not in good way some of the stories they tell me about themselves or their friends or people at this frat party or this sorority party. My girls aren't innocent just because they are girls. Who is to say the girl in this story isn't somehow guilty of a failed scheme? Is that not possible?
This is not good posting. If it was your kid is not really the standard here. I don't know if it's a full blown strawman but it's not worthy of the discussion that's being had here, which to me is a good one.

Past all that, what's your hypothesis for how she got beat up?
 

InsideTheParker

persists in error
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
40,371
Pioneer Valley
For the sexual assault. And I personally think that's important.

If he's only responsible for the beating, he's a douche but he's not beyond redemption. If he's involved in the sexual assault in anyway, fuck him.
Well, I think being involved in a beating up of a drunk girl is mighty serious. So is sexual assault, but no more, in my opinion, than physical violence.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
Maybe it's just recency bias but the situation this most reminds me of is the Pats bringing in Antonio Brown (obviously Brown was a much better talent in his league than Verdugo is in his). Which is to say, even if you take a generous view of the player's past and are inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, there's a whole lot of smoke suggesting that this guy generally is kind of an asshole.

And in my experience it's extremely rare to have those types of guys come to a new team and suddenly become totally different people, as we saw with AB. There are various other examples to choose from - Steven Wright is one that the Sox have intimate experience with.

So while I don't know if anything will ultimately come from this specific incident that everyone is discussing, I'd be really surprised if there isn't SOME controversy with Verdugo in the next year or two - clubhouse fight, other legal issues, steroid suspension, etc. I've just seen this story play out too many times to believe otherwise, and it's kind of depressing that apparently the Red Sox disagree or were willing to take that (significant) risk.
 

Cokes311

New Member
Apr 10, 2008
84
Witch City
Bloom is going to figure out really quickly that this isn’t Tampa. People actually pay attention here. This kid is going to (rightly) get ripped to shreds in this market until he’s eventually moved for a couple of A ball lottery tickets that we’ll never hear about. You just can’t bring guys like this in, especially in a trade for a guy like Mookie Betts. The whole organization is tone deaf.
Absolutely

People would sit up and take notice if Josh Leuke pitched here
 

keninten

New Member
Nov 24, 2005
588
Tennessee
I'm truly sorry for what happened to your daughter. That's heinous. I think Baldwin getting his nuts smashed in with a hammer is letting him off easy. Fuck him. Should be in jail. Like you said there's no evidence on anything regarding Verdugo other than he's a piss poor judge of character.
I`d rather go to jail than have my nuts smashed by a hammer
 

DeweyWins

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 24, 2012
56
Huntsville, AL
The primary return for this trade was Competitive Balance Tax Payroll Relief, which is hard to fit on the back of a jersey, and very unlikely to become the face of the franchise.
Agreed, hence why I specified "primary player return" in the post. I think the "$" is the true face of every franchise, unfortunately.