Alex Verdugo, new Red Sox star!

bohous

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Is anyone other than SoSH talking about Verdugo and his possible connection to a sexual assault? I don't live in Boston. Is this being discussed on radio or TV?
I don't listen to sports talk radio anymore so not sure its being discussed there. I've seen it danced around by media types on Twitter with vague acknowledgment of "maturity issues".
Alex Speier actually responded to one of my Twitter comments today saying "We’re aware of the report and investigating.", so I expect a Globe piece at some point.
 

jon abbey

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There were questions about it in both Fangraphs chats today.
 

Dan Murfman

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I know he’s an ahole but Minihane actually had an interesting interview with Nick Francona on his podcast today. If you skip to 1:58 into the podcast that’s about where it starts.
 

bohous

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I know he’s an ahole but Minihane actually had an interesting interview with Nick Francona on his podcast today. If you skip to 1:58 into the podcast that’s about where it starts.


Just checked out his Twitter page and saw that. I really dislike Kirk so I don't follow him or listen to his show, but this is pretty interesting...

 
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Tyrone Biggums

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I haven’t heard anyone on TV or radio in Boston talk about it. And honestly I’m very disappointed.
Adam Jones was all over that last night. Did you think he would miss a negative Boston sports story?
 

Plympton91

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never mind. As I was posting that we didn’t know anything about Verdugo’s role, someone posted the first new piece of evidence suggesting Verdugo was present when the women fought and side use to film it instead of stop it.

crap.
 
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shepard50

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Verdugo was the filmer/sharer is a new and shitty twist.

I can't think of a player who has done something like this on the Red Sox. Manny hitting his wife was post Red Sox, and the Steven Wright incident never seemed this grim.

I would hope the team would address it at some point.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I didn't want to be reckless about an allegation that one had to infer from the original story that was posted, but from the account that was blogged, the implication that it was Verdugo who posted the snapchat kind of seemed to jump out. There were five people mentioned. Verdugo, Baldwin, the two women, and the girl. The girl was getting beaten up by the two women. Baldwin was named pretty specifically for the stuff that he did. Unless Urias was more involved than anyone suggested and was a sixth person involved, it really seemed like they were kind of trying to say without saying that it was Verdugo who was the snapchatter.

Maybe Francona is responding to the same I'm saying it but not saying it kind of vibe from the reports. Or, more likely, it was what it seemed to be all along.
 

SouthernBoSox

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never mind. As I was posting that we didn’t know anything about Verdugo’s role, someone posted the first new piece of evidence suggesting Verdugo was present when the women fought and side use to film it instead of stop it.

crap.
It’s pretty amazing how one piece of information changes things. I’m always quick to argue against a crowd storming against someone when they have very little in the way of information. I thought at the very least we didn’t have nearly enough information to say this kid was some monster.

However, if this kid really just filmed some girls beating the shit out of another girl and put it on Snapchat? That’s a whole other thing.

This sucks and if we figured this out in less than 48 hours so should have the Red Sox.
 

shepard50

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Verdugo was the filmer/sharer is a new and shitty twist.

I can't think of a player who has done something like this on the Red Sox. Manny hitting his wife was post Red Sox, and the Steven Wright incident never seemed this grim.

I would hope the team would address it at some point. I would lose a lot of respect for the organization if they don't
 

Marciano490

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It was always going to take a pretty specific high wire run through the facts for Verdugo to not have been a bad actor that night, so I guess this is disappointing but not surprising and doesn’t augur well for what else he may have done or failed to do.

And Wilfredo Cordero I believe committed an act of DV in the late 90s - I think hitting his significant other with a phone - but he was quickly released if memory serves.

Which is what’s sucky about the Verdugo trade. It’s not like there haven’t been bad people on Boston teams, but when their actions have come to light, they’ve been cut. This is the first instance of someone with off-field flags (dancing around Haynesworth) I remember being brought here.
 

Dan Murfman

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Minihane is covering this story because besides Murchinson he blames the Red Sox and the Globe for him losing his WEEI job and he thinks this story makes them both look bad. But I do think he has a point that the Globe would be treating this story different if this a Patriot player who was involved in this story.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Francona knew the entire story. If he's saying Verdugo filmed it then Verdugo definitely did it.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Francona knew the entire story. If he's saying Verdugo filmed it then Verdugo definitely did it.
I thought his phraseology was a bit guarded. He spoke about what his understanding was, which suggested that he didn't know it for sure. In other words, that there was no admission or that his information was second hand. It was a little disappointing that Minihane didn't say "how do you know that" or "where does your understanding come from"?

But, yeah, the notion that Francona would believe it was Verdugo and that it was not actually Verdugo is pretty unlikely. I just found it odd that Francona didn't say "yeah, it was him." I think he was probably using passive voice to protect someone or to avoid saying something about someone else. I wouldn't think it would be Kapler, but who the fuck knows in this shitty story.
 

edoug

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It's easier to find something wrong with a pitcher's medical records. If the Dodgers didn't want to take Verdugo back and I owned the Sox, I'd do this to scrub the deal.That's how I'd handle it. I don't care if the Dodgers are pissed. Figuring out how to make it up to the Twins is something I would have to do.
 

OurF'ingCity

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It's easier to find something wrong with a pitcher's medical records. If the Dodgers didn't want to take Verdugo back and I owned the Sox, I'd do this to scrub the deal.That's how I'd handle it. I don't care if the Dodgers are pissed. Figuring out how to make it up to the Twins is something I would have to do.
If you owned the Sox you'd never have made the trade in the first place. I don't really understand people who say the Sox can use this as an "excuse" to blow up the deal. Everything about Verdugo that we now as of know was knowable well before the Sox made the trade. They're not idiots - they knew everything about Verdugo's injury history and background and still traded for him because (a) I don't think they really care about his sexual assault issues (the Dodgers didn't either) and (b) the trade was a glorified salary dump and the players coming back are secondary.
 

AB in DC

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I thought his phraseology was a bit guarded. He spoke about what his understanding was, which suggested that he didn't know it for sure. In other words, that there was no admission or that his information was second hand. It was a little disappointing that Minihane didn't say "how do you know that" or "where does your understanding come from"?

But, yeah, the notion that Francona would believe it was Verdugo and that it was not actually Verdugo is pretty unlikely. I just found it odd that Francona didn't say "yeah, it was him." I think he was probably using passive voice to protect someone or to avoid saying something about someone else. I wouldn't think it would be Kapler, but who the fuck knows in this shitty story.
Wait, so you're saying that a Kurt Minihane clickbait-y headline for a podcast might not have been the actual literal truth? I'm shocked.
 

Plympton91

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How could they not have known about this incident? Did they think it would fly under the radar?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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How could they not have known about this incident? Did they think it would fly under the radar?
I'm going with Hanlon's razor. I just cannot believe they actually thought, "oh, fuck it, we don't care if he was a sexual assault accomplice." I think it was incompetence or stupidity. Either a blind spot or a rush to do the deal. Or Verdugo got thrown in at a point in time where they overlooked something and just screwed up their due diligence.

I'm guessing nobody is going to believe that it's possible that they just fucked up and frankly it's almost as bad. But I just have trouble seeing it the other way. Maybe just don't want to see it.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I really don't care if he's going to have a 20 WAR next season and have an all time year. You can't field this guy. Filming this shit is pretty bad. It wasn't Baldwin bad but still really bad.
 

Bongorific

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This ownership group has generally been very focused on the value of the club, it’s marketability, and optics.

Trading your most popular player for a player with this type of baggage seems very out of character.

I was pretty unhappy with the team based on the trade alone. Now, I’m disheartened.
 

AB in DC

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I'm going with Hanlon's razor. I just cannot believe they actually thought, "oh, fuck it, we don't care if he was a sexual assault accomplice." I think it was incompetence or stupidity. Either a blind spot or a rush to do the deal. Or Verdugo got thrown in at a point in time where they overlooked something and just screwed up their due diligence.

I'm guessing nobody is going to believe that it's possible that they just fucked up and frankly it's almost as bad. But I just have trouble seeing it the other way. Maybe just don't want to see it.
Wait, so no one here has seriously considered the possibility that Bloom et al have more information about this incident, and/or Verdugo's character, than has been publicly reported? And that perhaps, armed with this information, whatever it may be, they judged that the reality is in fact nowhere near the "worst care scenarios" being floated in this thread?

We're all jumping to conclusions based on tiny scraps of information here. Perhaps we're filling in the gaps correctly, perhaps we aren't. But I find it hard to believe that professional baseball franchises can't or won't find more about a situation than just the little that has been reported to date.
 
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If you owned the Sox you'd never have made the trade in the first place. I don't really understand people who say the Sox can use this as an "excuse" to blow up the deal. Everything about Verdugo that we now as of know was knowable well before the Sox made the trade. They're not idiots - they knew everything about Verdugo's injury history and background and still traded for him because (a) I don't think they really care about his sexual assault issues (the Dodgers didn't either) and (b) the trade was a glorified salary dump and the players coming back are secondary.
I don't believe anyone is saying Verdugo committed sexual assault.
 

Rovin Romine

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I thought his phraseology was a bit guarded. He spoke about what his understanding was, which suggested that he didn't know it for sure. In other words, that there was no admission or that his information was second hand. It was a little disappointing that Minihane didn't say "how do you know that" or "where does your understanding come from"?
Verdugo probably didn't send the pics/vid to Francona. Since the pics/vid would self-erase, it's likely that either somebody who viewed told Francona (or someone else, like Kapler, who then told Franco), or Verdugo admitted to doing so - although, again, perhaps not to Francona directly.

If the above were true, and I were in Francona's shoes, I'd use similiar langauge.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Wait, so no one here has seriously considered the possibility that Bloom et al have more information about this incident, and/or Verdugo's character, than has been publicly reported? And that perhaps, armed with this information, whatever it may be, they judged that the reality is in fact nowhere near the "worst care scenarios" being floated in this thread?

We're all jumping to conclusions based on tiny scraps of information here. Perhaps we're filling in the gaps correctly, perhaps we aren't. But I find it hard to believe that professional baseball franchises can't or won't find more about a situation than just the little that has been reported to date.
Hope you're right. I'm skeptical. But, yeah, I assume they cannot comment on a player on another team until the paperwork is in. Once the deal goes through, we should know pretty quickly if this is the case.
 

Plympton91

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This ownership group has generally been very focused on the value of the club, it’s marketability, and optics.

Trading your most popular player for a player with this type of baggage seems very out of character.

I was pretty unhappy with the team based on the trade alone. Now, I’m disheartened.
Well, the person who made the trade is new to the organization. And in his previous job,Verdugo is the type of damaged asset you had to live with in order to survive among the Great White sharks of the AL East. Or maybe Bloom has a little Astros in him.
 

Marciano490

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Wait, so no one here has seriously considered the possibility that Bloom et al have more information about this incident, and/or Verdugo's character, than has been publicly reported? And that perhaps, armed with this information, whatever it may be, they judged that the reality is in fact nowhere near the "worst care scenarios" being floated in this thread?

We're all jumping to conclusions based on tiny scraps of information here. Perhaps we're filling in the gaps correctly, perhaps we aren't. But I find it hard to believe that professional baseball franchises can't or won't find more about a situation than just the little that has been reported to date.
Counterpoint - Chapman, Osuna, Hill, Ray Lewis, etc.
 

Plympton91

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Wait, so no one here has seriously considered the possibility that Bloom et al have more information about this incident, and/or Verdugo's character, than has been publicly reported? And that perhaps, armed with this information, whatever it may be, they judged that the reality is in fact nowhere near the "worst care scenarios" being floated in this thread?

We're all jumping to conclusions based on tiny scraps of information here. Perhaps we're filling in the gaps correctly, perhaps we aren't. But I find it hard to believe that professional baseball franchises can't or won't find more about a situation than just the little that has been reported to date.
I guess we’ll find out. It’s also true that Nick Francona May hold a grudge against the Red Sox and enjoy twisting a little hearsay knife into their back.
 

AB in DC

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Hope you're right. I'm skeptical. But, yeah, I assume they cannot comment on a player on another team until the paperwork is in. Once the deal goes through, we should know pretty quickly if this is the case.
Agreed. There's absolutely enough information to ask some questions here. But Bloom, Verdugo, etc. need to have the right answers teed up and ready to go as soon as the time is right.
 

AB in DC

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Read better.

Lots of franchises sign or trade for people as bad or worse than Verdugo. I was pointing out the naïveté of your post, not leveling accusations at him.
I've seen no indications that the teams who signed those players didn't have plenty of information about what they'd done. They just didn't care.

I've also seen no evidence that Henry, Bloom, etc. run the Sox in any way like those teams.
 

Marciano490

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I've seen no indications that the teams who signed those players didn't have plenty of information about what they'd done. They just didn't care.

I've also seen no evidence that Henry, Bloom, etc. run the Sox in any way like those teams.
Well, Bloom is new. And this is looking like Exhibit A. Or maybe the sign stealing will be. Or, perhaps Henry and the gang are the most moral and upstanding group in the land.
 

edoug

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If you owned the Sox you'd never have made the trade in the first place. I don't really understand people who say the Sox can use this as an "excuse" to blow up the deal. Everything about Verdugo that we now as of know was knowable well before the Sox made the trade. They're not idiots - they knew everything about Verdugo's injury history and background and still traded for him because (a) I don't think they really care about his sexual assault issues (the Dodgers didn't either) and (b) the trade was a glorified salary dump and the players coming back are secondary.
I'm very proud that I wouldn't want anything to do with the guy. They didn't know about all or enough of the details of the assaults and filming of it. Or didn't think it would come up. Or just didn't care. So the best they are in this case is idiots.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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I don't believe anyone is saying Verdugo committed sexual assault.
Maybe, but I'm not sure what they are saying he did isn't pretty nearly as bad. What kind of human being stands there phone in hand to film a miserable drunk street kid getting roughed up in a motel room, and then posts the result to social media? That is sociopathic AF.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Maybe, but I'm not sure what they are saying he did isn't pretty nearly as bad. What kind of human being stands there phone in hand to film a miserable drunk street kid getting roughed up in a motel room, and then posts the result to social media? That is sociopathic AF.
Before dishing out any judgement I would would want to see the video.

On a side note, a fight broke out at a park near my daughter's high school when I was picking her up. There were about a hundred kids sprinting from the school to watch the fight and just about every single one of them had their phones out and at the ready.
 

Yaz4Ever

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Before dishing out any judgement I would would want to see the video.

On a side note, a fight broke out at a park near my daughter's high school when I was picking her up. There were about a hundred kids sprinting from the school to watch the fight and just about every single one of them had their phones out and at the ready.
A. Why would you want to watch a video of someone being sexually/physically assaulted?
B. That's sad, but a very common occurrence nowadays.
 

edoug

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OurF'ingCity, My anger is in the entire situation. And none of it is even in the tiniest way is towards you. I'm just angry and I'm losing faith in almost everything. SoSH is a refuge from all that is horrible things going on.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Before dishing out any judgement I would would want to see the video.

On a side note, a fight broke out at a park near my daughter's high school when I was picking her up. There were about a hundred kids sprinting from the school to watch the fight and just about every single one of them had their phones out and at the ready.
I’m going to go out on a limb and predict that if I make it to the end of the road not having had to watch a phone video of two “older women” beating up a drunk 17 year old runaway girl who was just sexually assaulted, I will be just fine.

If you need to see it to judge whether you’re cool with paying to watch the cinematographer play baseball, I’m glad I won’t be there to watch with you.
 
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A. Why would you want to watch a video of someone being sexually/physically assaulted?
B. That's sad, but a very common occurrence nowadays.
Of course I don't want to watch it for personal enjoyment. Maybe it was just shouting and he stopped when it became violent. We don't know.
 

CR67dream

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He was not the assaulter, but this author argues that Verdugo could have been found "legally culpable in a sexual assault" as an accomplice to the actual assaulter. Seems like the author is assuming a lot but either way having your name be in the same sentence as "sexual assault" is never a good look unless the sentence is "he was never associated with sexual assault."
So there are problems with the link you posted right off the bat. First, she claimed that it had been reported that Verdugo was present for both incidents.

Verdugo was reportedly present for both the girl’s beating and for the sexual assault on the girl by Baldwin, and did not intervene. He was named in the police report filed by the survivor, a report which also noted her physical condition:

Except that her first citation link I posted above leads to the quote below, which clearly states the physical assault and sexual assault were not at the same time, and says nothing of Verdugo being there for the sexual assault. The second leads to a twitter page that doesn't exist.
------------------
"Earlier this year, it was reported that Alex Verdugo was present for the assault of a minor during Spring Training several years ago (sources have confirmed the accuracy of this report). That young woman was later sexually assaulted by another Dodger minor leaguer."
--------------------
From the original story that started this thread off, also linked under the word "reported" above:
____________________________
The girl explained that she’d been drinking a lot, and felt ill, so she rested on one of the beds. Baldwin approached her and began fondling her breasts, then put his hand under her underwear, fondling her clitoris. This wasn’t consensual, she told them. She was passing out during the act. He gave up trying when the rest of the group re-entered the room, perhaps, she said, out of frustration.
____________________________

I'm not mounting a defense of this guy, he sure seems like he may be a total dirtbag and if I had my druthers he'd never take the field for the Red Sox. It's also beyond disingenuous to label him a sexual offender based on what is known.
 
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DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Of course I don't want to watch it for personal enjoyment. Maybe it was just shouting and he stopped when it became violent. We don't know.
Or maybe he was possessed. I’ll await your forensic analysis.

I’m being a prick, obviously. But you have to be somewhat aware that “we just don’t know” is a fairly common oldie but goodie used to excuse awful behavior in not really ambiguous situations.
 

Rovin Romine

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He was not the assaulter, but this author argues that Verdugo could have been found "legally culpable in a sexual assault" as an accomplice to the actual assaulter. Seems like the author is assuming a lot but either way having your name be in the same sentence as "sexual assault" is never a good look unless the sentence is "he was never associated with sexual assault."
I'd expect the average AZ barred attorney with actual criminal law experience would probably laugh at the above. I don't even need to know AZ law to say that as due process requires a mens rea (guilty mind) for a criminal conviction to attach in most circumstances.

Here, the news reporting is that (per the victim, via the police report) Verdugo was not present during the sexual assault, by all accounts seemed unaware of it, and, in essence, interrupted it by returning to the room, along with 2 other people.

I don't see any way that gets him into accomplice territory. The guy can get deep-sixed by the fan base for being a tool. But Sheryl Ring's legal analysis seems to be fairly far out there on a slim branch, no matter how valid her other points might be.
 
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Or maybe he was possessed. I’ll await your forensic analysis.

I’m being a prick, obviously. But you have to be somewhat aware that “we just don’t know” is a fairly common oldie but goodie used to excuse awful behavior in not really ambiguous situations.
One thing that doesn't make sense to me is how the victim knew Verdugo posted it to SnapChat. After she was finished being beat up, Verdugo said, "Got the whole thing on video and now I'm going to post it on my SnapChat account"?