All Pats-SB Champ Starting Lineup

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Picking a starting lineup from the six SB-winning teams only...

Offense
QB - Brady
RB - Dillon
WR - Edelman
WR - Branch
WR - Brown
TE - Gronkowski
LT - Light
LG - Thuney
C - Andrews
RG - Mason
RT - Cannon

Defense
DE - Seymour
DT - Flowers
DT - Wilfork
DE - McGinest
LB - Vrabel
LB - Bruschi
LB - Hightower
CB - Law
CB - Gilmore
S - McCourty
S - Harrison

Special Teams
K - Vinatieri
P - Bailey
LS - Paxton
Special Teams Ace - Slater
 

edoug

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Bailey hasn't played in a Super Bowl, yet. Career-wise, I would go with Dillon. But I think I'd' pick James White.
 

Ale Xander

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I’d go White then Faulk then Dillon

Andruzzi at RG
Sea bass at RT
Koppen at C
Move Seymour inside (over Flowers) and have Colvin at Edge)
Milloy over McCourty
 

tims4wins

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I’d go White then Faulk then Dillon

Andruzzi at RG
Sea bass at RT
Koppen at C
Move Seymour inside (over Flowers) and have Colvin at Edge)
Milloy over McCourty
Clearly White or Faulk is the 3rd down back.
Milloy wouldn't pair well with Harrison. Same player, but worse.
Koppen / Andrews I am indifferent on.
Agree with you and others Seabass slight edge over Cannon.
 

macal

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I've nothing to add here apart from the pain in not seeing Randy Moss on that list. A wound has been reopened.
 

Joe D Reid

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Question that might help clarify the exercise: no Revis? If you go by peak or career, he's hard to argue against. But I guess if we are looking just at Pats career (or Pats SB years) then he is behind Law and Gilmore.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I love Trey Flowers but think his inclusion is pretty hard to justify. Kick Big Sey inside and put Chandler Jones at end.

Its amazing that Logan Mankins can't qualify for this team despite a nine year Patriot career. Would have been a shoe in at guard.
 

Super Nomario

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I love Trey Flowers but think his inclusion is pretty hard to justify. Kick Big Sey inside and put Chandler Jones at end.

Its amazing that Logan Mankins can't qualify for this team despite a nine year Patriot career. Would have been a shoe in at guard.
Jones has had a much better NFL career than Flowers, but Flowers was nearly as good in NE in the regular season as Jones and much better in the playoffs. Both played 9 playoff games in NE; Jones only had 2 sacks, while Flowers had 5.5. Flowers' performance in the SB vs Atlanta was an all-timer (2.5 sacks and just a ton of big plays - 2nd and 2 run stop right before Hightower strip sack, huge sack to knock ATL out of FG range after the big completion to Julio, another 3rd down sack, etc.). And Flowers was part of 2 SB winners (2016 and 2018) vs just 2014 for Jones.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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I love Trey Flowers but think his inclusion is pretty hard to justify. Kick Big Sey inside and put Chandler Jones at end.

Its amazing that Logan Mankins can't qualify for this team despite a nine year Patriot career. Would have been a shoe in at guard.
For reasons just given, I’m comfortable with my D line.

And I hear you about Mankins. Or how about Welker? Poor guy was absolutely unreal for New England and isn’t on this list. That’s what happens when you don’t win one. (Moss either)
 

DourDoerr

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I love Trey Flowers but think his inclusion is pretty hard to justify. Kick Big Sey inside and put Chandler Jones at end.

Its amazing that Logan Mankins can't qualify for this team despite a nine year Patriot career. Would have been a shoe in at guard.
Does Mankins have the longest Pats’ tenure without a SB win during the Pats/Brady run? 6 SB wins in 20 years and he comes up goose eggs in 9 years. That’s snakebit.
 

Bergs

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Career-wise, I would go with Dillon. But I think I'd' pick James White.
2004 was the best season of Corey Dillon's career (and arguably the best season by a RB in NEP history). My man averaged 4.7 ypc, over 100 ypg, had 12 TD, and 1 fumble. THAT GUY on a team with the modern era Pats passing attack would have been fucking amazing. He's my pick at RB and it's really not a close call.
 

Euclis20

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Does Mankins have the longest Pats’ tenure without a SB win during the Pats/Brady run? 6 SB wins in 20 years and he comes up goose eggs in 9 years. That’s snakebit.
Has to be. He was drafted less than 3 months after SB 39, and traded less than 6 months before SB 49.
 

edoug

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2004 was the best season of Corey Dillon's career (and arguably the best season by a RB in NEP history). My man averaged 4.7 ypc, over 100 ypg, had 12 TD, and 1 fumble. THAT GUY on a team with the modern era Pats passing attack would have been fucking amazing. He's my pick at RB and it's really not a close call.
I get it, you went by the Super Bowl winning season. I went with White's performance in Super Bowl LI.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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I was thinking of what the best backup (or next best 26) squad would look like. I don't think that BB could even take his 2's to beat his 1's.
Jimmy G at QB?
David Givens WR ?

There are some areas of depth (no dropoff really at C or PK, for example). D probably has a better second 11 than the O.
 

JerBear

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I was thinking of what the best backup (or next best 26) squad would look like. I don't think that BB could even take his 2's to beat his 1's.
Jimmy G at QB?
David Givens WR ?

There are some areas of depth (no dropoff really at C or PK, for example). D probably has a better second 11 than the O.
I think I'd have Drew over Jimmy at QB2.
 

Bergs

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I was thinking of what the best backup (or next best 26) squad would look like. I don't think that BB could even take his 2's to beat his 1's.
Jimmy G at QB?
David Givens WR ?

There are some areas of depth (no dropoff really at C or PK, for example). D probably has a better second 11 than the O.
Bledsoe?
 

BlackJack

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It’d be interesting to match up Pats from winning SB teams vs Pats from losing ones. Loser team would still have Brady, Gronk, Law but you get to add Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Curtis Martin, Ben Coates, Andre Tippett…
 

Bergs

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It’d be interesting to match up Pats from winning SB teams vs Pats from losing ones. Loser team would still have Brady, Gronk, Law but you get to add Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Curtis Martin, Ben Coates, Andre Tippett…
If healthy, the team of losers would beat the team of winners, IMO.

Arguably a better O-line. Also, Aaron Hernandez.
 

Jungleland

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I think the more interesting question is whether the team comprised only of SB winners would destroy a team made up from the full field of Pats who never won with the team. Brady over the next best QB probably makes it moot, but you have a pretty phenomenal offensive core with Moss, Coates, Curtis Martin, John Hannah, Mankins...
 

BaseballJones

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Ok @Jungleland ....

SB Winners
Offense
QB - Brady
RB - Dillon
WR - Edelman
WR - Branch
WR - Brown
TE - Gronkowski
LT - Light
LG - Thuney
C - Andrews
RG - Mason
RT - Cannon

Defense
DE - Seymour
DT - Flowers
DT - Wilfork
DE - McGinest
LB - Vrabel
LB - Bruschi
LB - Hightower
CB - Law
CB - Gilmore
S - McCourty
S - Harrison

Special Teams
K - Vinatieri
P - Bailey
LS - Paxton
Special Teams Ace - Slater


Non-SB Winners
Offense
QB - Bledsoe
RB - Martin
WR - Moss
WR - Welker
WR - Morgan
TE - Coates
LT - Armstrong
LG - Hannah
C - Brock
RG - Wooten
RT - Moore (honestly, I don't know who would be their best non-SB-winning RT...and no switching a LT over to RT!!!! - same with LG..Mankins/Hannah)

Defense
DE - Veris
DT - Hamilton
DE - Adams
LB - Tippett
LB - Nelson
LB - Blackmon
LB - Mayo
CB - Haynes
CB - Clayborn
S - Marion
S - Fox

Special Teams
K - Franklin
P - Camarillo
Special Teams Ace - Woodhead
 

tims4wins

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Ok @Jungleland ....

SB Winners
Offense
QB - Brady
RB - Dillon
WR - Edelman
WR - Branch
WR - Brown
TE - Gronkowski
LT - Light
LG - Thuney
C - Andrews
RG - Mason
RT - Cannon

Defense
DE - Seymour
DT - Flowers
DT - Wilfork
DE - McGinest
LB - Vrabel
LB - Bruschi
LB - Hightower
CB - Law
CB - Gilmore
S - McCourty
S - Harrison

Special Teams
K - Vinatieri
P - Bailey
LS - Paxton
Special Teams Ace - Slater


Non-SB Winners
Offense
QB - Bledsoe
RB - Martin
WR - Moss
WR - Welker
WR - Morgan
TE - Coates
LT - Armstrong
LG - Hannah
C - Brock
RG - Wooten
RT - Moore (honestly, I don't know who would be their best non-SB-winning RT...and no switching a LT over to RT!!!! - same with LG..Mankins/Hannah)

Defense
DE - Veris
DT - Hamilton
DE - Adams
LB - Tippett
LB - Nelson
LB - Blackmon
LB - Mayo
CB - Haynes
CB - Clayborn
S - Marion
S - Fox

Special Teams
K - Franklin
P - Camarillo
Special Teams Ace - Woodhead
Bailey hasn’t won.

Ryan Allen had their best ever playoff performance by a punter in 53 tho.
 

BlackJack

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Non-SB Winners
Offense
QB - Bledsoe
RB - Martin
WR - Moss
WR - Welker
WR - Morgan
TE - Coates
LT - Armstrong
LG - Hannah
C - Brock
RG - Wooten
RT - Moore (honestly, I don't know who would be their best non-SB-winning RT...and no switching a LT over to RT!!!! - same with LG..Mankins/Hannah)

Defense
DE - Veris
DT - Hamilton
DE - Adams
LB - Tippett
LB - Nelson
LB - Blackmon
LB - Mayo
CB - Haynes
CB - Clayborn
S - Marion
S - Fox

Special Teams
K - Franklin
P - Camarillo
Special Teams Ace - Woodhead
Bledsoe was on the 2001 team and Mayo was on IR in 2014 but was on the team. You could definitely make an argument for Mayo but Bledsoe has to be ruled out for the loser team.
 

BaseballJones

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Yep totally forgot about Bledsoe. Yikes. Well....that makes QB difficult for them, though I guess Grogan makes as much sense as anyone else.

Who plays LB instead of Mayo then?
 

Devizier

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The losers receiving corps is ridiculous, too bad their QB is mediocre.

As an aside, it’s crazy that Vincent Brown practically never missed a game. I remember his knee being pretty messed up at the end.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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The losers receiving corps is ridiculous, too bad their QB is mediocre.
I mean the skill position players on that team, minus the QB: Martin, Coates, Moss, Welker, Morgan - that's elite, elite level stuff right there. WAY better than the skill position players on the SB-winning squad. Of course...QB is pretty lopsided the other way.
 

BlackJack

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I mean the skill position players on that team, minus the QB: Martin, Coates, Moss, Welker, Morgan - that's elite, elite level stuff right there. WAY better than the skill position players on the SB-winning squad. Of course...QB is pretty lopsided the other way.
Irving Fryar was no slouch either.
 

Shaky Walton

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Bailey hasn’t won.

Ryan Allen had their best ever playoff performance by a punter in 53 tho.
He was a winner but for my money the best ever performance in a SB or any playoff game by a Pats punter was by Josh Miller in SB 39. He was brilliant all game but his punt to pin the Iggles way back on their own goal line after they had cut the score to a 3 point deficit made the task of Puking Donovan McNabb all but impossible at the end. A punt into the end zone would have been scary as hell. Miller was one of the MVPs of that game.

And for that reason he would be my punter on the All Pats SB Team.
 

tims4wins

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He was a winner but for my money the best ever performance in a SB or any playoff game by a Pats punter was by Josh Miller in SB 39. He was brilliant all game but his punt to pin the Iggles way back on their own goal line after they had cut the score to a 3 point deficit made the task of Puking Donovan McNabb all but impossible at the end. A punt into the end zone would have been scary as hell. Miller was one of the MVPs of that game.

And for that reason he would be my punter on the All Pats SB Team.
Great call. He punted 7 times that game:
1: NE 45 to PHI 7, 48 yards out of bounds (net 48)
2: NE 40 to PHI 16, 44 yards, returned 10 yards (net 34)
3: NE 10 to PHI 46, 44 yards, returned 9 yards (net 35)
4: NE 33 to PHI 19, 48 yards, fair catch (net 48)
5: NE 14 to PHI PHI 38, 48 yards, muffed out of bounds to PHI 36 (net 50?); also a 10 yard holding penalty knocked this to the PHI 26
6: NE 29 to PHI 21, 50 yards, fair catch (net 50)
7: PHI 36 to PHI 4, 32 yards, downed (net 32)
 

tims4wins

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Allen played great but I thought Hekker had the best punting performance ever in a SB in the same game.
Hekker was more lucky than good IMO. He had multiple punts that were so short that then got favorable bounces, e.g. his record 70 yarder or however long it was
 

Old Fart Tree

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Hekker was more lucky than good IMO. He had multiple punts that were so short that then got favorable bounces, e.g. his record 70 yarder or however long it was
Definitely luck involved, but we’re in a results-based business.

Edit: my hot take on that game has always been that the Pats sort of quietly dominated it. They outgained them 407-260, 22 first downs to LA's 14, and frankly, it should have been a two-TD whupping based on that... but Hekker's ridiculous punting put the Rams in position where they could have stolen the win. If not for his theatrics I think the Pats win by 17 or more.
 

tims4wins

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Definitely luck involved, but we’re in a results-based business.

Edit: my hot take on that game has always been that the Pats sort of quietly dominated it. They outgained them 407-260, 22 first downs to LA's 14, and frankly, it should have been a two-TD whupping based on that... but Hekker's ridiculous punting put the Rams in position where they could have stolen the win. If not for his theatrics I think the Pats win by 17 or more.
Look at the box score of that game vs the 2016 regular season game vs Goff. Stats were pretty similar. Pats won that 2016 game going away. So, agree.
 

Super Nomario

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Definitely luck involved, but we’re in a results-based business.

Edit: my hot take on that game has always been that the Pats sort of quietly dominated it. They outgained them 407-260, 22 first downs to LA's 14, and frankly, it should have been a two-TD whupping based on that... but Hekker's ridiculous punting put the Rams in position where they could have stolen the win. If not for his theatrics I think the Pats win by 17 or more.
Yup: https://insidethepylon.com/nfl/teams-nfl/afc-east/new-england-patriots/2019/02/07/super-bowl-liii-blowout-wasnt/
 

rodderick

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Definitely luck involved, but we’re in a results-based business.

Edit: my hot take on that game has always been that the Pats sort of quietly dominated it. They outgained them 407-260, 22 first downs to LA's 14, and frankly, it should have been a two-TD whupping based on that... but Hekker's ridiculous punting put the Rams in position where they could have stolen the win. If not for his theatrics I think the Pats win by 17 or more.
It was a 27-13 kinda of game, honestly. The Rams had opportunities to score that were thwarted by Jared Goff being terrible as well. It wasn't that great of a defensive performance by either team. The Patriots defense certainly played very well, but not "hold them to 3 points scored" well, Goff gets the assist for that one. On the Patriots side they just had a ton of drives in which they moved the ball and then sputtered. Brady wasn't all that sharp as well, but still 13 points underrates their offensive output.
 

tims4wins

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It was a 27-13 kinda of game, honestly. The Rams had opportunities to score that were thwarted by Jared Goff being terrible as well. It wasn't that great of a defensive performance by either team.
I think both of these things are true - the Pats D played a great defensive game (especially through 2.5 quarters); and Goff cost them points on multiple occasions (Cooks / JMC play, and Gilmore pick).

13 points sounds exactly right for the Rams: 7 on the Cooks drop / JMC play, 3 on the drive that ended in the Gilmore pick, and 3 on the missed FG.

The Rams averaged 32.9 PPG that year, so even 13 points would have constituted an outstanding defensive effort IMO, but reasonable minds can differ.

For the Pats, they should have had 3 on the first drive (pick), 3 on the missed FG, and another 3 on the last drive of the first half - so at a bare minimum, 22.

Rams drives:

3 plays, 2 yards
5 plays, 17 yards
3 plays, 3 yards
5 plays, 23 yards
3 plays, -6 yards
3 plays, 8 yards
5 plays, 21 yards
3 plays, 4 yards
10 plays, 42 yards (field goal; this was the Cooks drop / JMC play drive)
9 plays, 23 yards
7 plays, 48 yards (Gilmore pick)
6 plays, 45 yards