- Sep 27, 2004
Disappointment : Mike Torrez, Trey Ball, Adrian Gonzalez
Which one?Stanley anyone?
I always got a kick out of him (Izzy Alcantara).He even flashed that illusive 6th tool.
Another candidate for C is Dave Valle, who was signed to a $1.2M free agent contract but then got hurt and apparently complained about losing playing time to Damon Berryhill. https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1994-06-04-1994155037-story.htmlDisappointments Catcher: AJ Pierzynski
He broke my young, 1978 heart. I can still see BFD's HR drifting into the LF Monster net. From that moment on, I swore to anyone that would listen that Torrez was a Yankee infiltrator.It's funny that Matt Young made the All Disappointment team. I mean, yes, he was terrible. But he was terrible before he came to Boston on that ridiculous contract. And performed as expected.
Mike Torrez is an interesting one; was awesome that first half of 1978, and then fell apart and never seemed to regain his form.
Quinones came to the Sox when Ted Williams was still an instructor at spring training. Ted said something to the effect that he liked Quinones' swing, and the hype train took off.Was Rey Quinones really hyped? I just remember him as a meh major leaguer. H hit a little in A and AA, but not in AAA.
Mark Melancon deserved to be here then.Joel Hanrahan and Andrew Bailey are warming up in the All-Disappointment pen.
Both were pretty big "closer of the future" trades. Both were terrible, then injured. Bailey was serviceable in low leverage work in his second season. Hanrahan disappeared into the ether.
Does David Murphy deserve to be on the all-potential sox list? He was a college player drafted by Theo (his first draft IIRC) as a high floor, low ceiling guy. He ended up with the kind of career one might have reasonably hoped for from him, except mostly after he departed.UPDATED.
The key to All-Potential Sox would be 5 tool pom-pom waving that never fully materialized, despite opportunity. Never trade this guy! He'll be hitting 30 home runs in no time. Etc. (Injury exception applies - Westmoreland, etc)
1B: Lars Anderson, Dernell Stenson, Michael Almanzar, Dave Stapleton
2B: Donnie Saddler, Wil Cordero
SS: Rey Quinones, Juan Bustabad
3B: Wilton Veras, Arquimedez Pozo, Will Middlebrooks, Garin Cecchini, Tony Blanco, Andy Marte.
OF: Franchy Cordero, Michael Coleman, Wily Mo Pena, Rusney Castillo, Jeff McNeely, La Schelle Tarver, Sam Horn, Izzy Alcantara, Greg Blosser, Jason Place, David Murphy.
C: Lavarnway, Lomasney, Swihart, Wedge, Soppach.
DH: Morgan Burkhart.
SP: Robinson Checo, Brian Rose, Henry Owens, Paxton Crawford, Michael Bowden, Allen Webster, Ruby De La Rosa, Dennis Tankersley, Bobby Sprowl, Mike Brown, Frankie Rodriguez.
RP: Craig Hansen, Anastacio Martinez
Managed by: Joe Kerrigan, Butch Hobson.
Just remembered, it was Bobby Jenks who took a liner to his ample gut. In his one year with the Red Sox, his ERA went from 4.44 to 6.32, while saves went from 27 to, um, 0. This guy should get a seat on the 'pen bench with Gagne. Embedded MFY Ramiro Mendoza (2002 ERA with Yanks, 3.44; 2003 with Sox, 6.75) is knocking on the door, tooMan, there are going to be a LOT of pitchers on the Disappointment squad.
Frank Viola, anybody?
And who was the guy who got hit with a liner, and someone else said something like "he'll be okay, it hit him in the fat?"
EDIT - also, Eric Gagne has to be in the 'pen
My first Red Sox game.Young Bernie Carbohydrate, watching the game on TV 38, October 2, 1983.
Yaz took the field for the last time in the top of the 8th, tipped his cap, and jogged off in favor of a defensive replacement.
I distinctly remember Ned Martin talking about how the Sox were in a transition, and while it was sad to see Yaz go, we could look forward to a new generation of stars, such as the young man now in left field.
That future star was Chico Walker.
Adrian Gonzalez posted 10 WAR in two seasons for less than $7m, a value proposition so good that the Dodgers accepted a boatload of deadweight contracts to take it off our hands.Disappointment : Mike Torrez, Trey Ball, Adrian Gonzalez
I agree with this. The disappointment from our (Sox fan) vantage point is that he wasn't good enough to stave off the deterioration of an aging and expensive roster whose window was closing. But he was good enough to be the carrot by which the Sox jump started the tear-down/re-build process and solved a significant salary/luxury tax problem that resulted in two more championships for the franchise. I would think the only people decrying the Adrian Gonzalez experience in Boston are Anthony Rizzo super-fans.Adrian Gonzalez posted 10 WAR in two seasons for less than $7m, a value proposition so good that the Dodgers accepted a boatload of deadweight contracts to take it off our hands.
In 2011, he finished seventh in the MVP voting! He won the Silver Slugger and the Gold Glove! He was merely good in 2012, and we were probably lucky that LA took the rest of his decline off our hands, but while he could arguably be an All-Disappointment team for the Dodgers, I don't see why one excellent year and another pretty good one would put him on ours.
Exactly. I can see how, as one of the top players on two very disappointing editions of the Red Sox, Gonzalez would have a kind of aura of disappointment surrounding him, but he played very well here.I agree with this. The disappointment from our (Sox fan) vantage point is that he wasn't good enough to stave off the deterioration of an aging and expensive roster whose window was closing. But he was good enough to be the carrot by which the Sox jump started the tear-down/re-build process and solved a significant salary/luxury tax problem that resulted in two more championships for the franchise. I would think the only people decrying the Adrian Gonzalez experience in Boston are Anthony Rizzo super-fans.
Gonzalez more than met his reasonable expectations, especially given that there was some uncertainty due to his injury when he was acquired.Exactly. I can see how, as one of the top players on two very disappointing editions of the Red Sox, Gonzalez would have a kind of aura of disappointment surrounding him, but he played very well here.
I was shocked to see Chico had an 11-year MLB career.My first Red Sox game.
Since the day before was Yaz day, we called it Chico day.
Along those lines, who was the last manager to rise through the ranks by managing a Sox farm team or two? Hobson? Feels like the last guy to "graduate" from a minor league manager spot to the big league coaching staff was Arnie Beyeler?The manager of the All-Potential team should be someone who everyone thought would be a future manager but never became one. My nominee: DeMarlo Hale.
You're describing the Mike Greenwell experience from an earlier era. He was supposed to be our next great slugging outfielder, continuing a tradition that went from Foxx to Ted to Yaz to Rice. He was instead a good OBP guy with doubles power. And people never quite forgave him. Ah, the 80s.Adrian Gonzalez is an interesting case of a guy who arrived with extremely high expectations, and met those expectations, but not quite in the manner we would have predicted. He had less home run power but had a crazy number of singles and doubles. I recall folks salivating over his power potential moving from cavernous Petco to Fenway, especially given his opposite field stroke. He wasn't a 40 home run guy, but the sum total of his production was still fantastic. I'm not sure how much of that change in production was due to his shoulder injury.
His only full Red Sox season in 2011 was also pretty BABIP-fueled (.380, lead the league in hits for the only time in his career). The guy he was 2013 was more along the lines of what he would be for the rest of his career - less home run power, more doubles and singles power.
Daniel Flores.I think DeMarlo Hale would be the manager of the Missed Opportunity Team (or "Miss Topportunity" if you want it to have beauty pageant ring to it). These are the players where you can dream of what might have been. The most tragic ones are Ryan Westmoreland and Tony Conigliaro (I can still see that black eye staring back at me from the Sports Illustrated cover).
Is there enough momentum to do one more list?
LOL - not from me but have at it!I think DeMarlo Hale would be the manager of the Missed Opportunity Team (or "Miss Topportunity" if you want it to have beauty pageant ring to it). These are the players where you can dream of what might have been. The most tragic ones are Ryan Westmoreland and Tony Conigliaro (I can still see that black eye staring back at me from the Sports Illustrated cover).
Is there enough momentum to do one more list?
Chico has a crazy B Ref page, with 365 of his 536 games played coming between ages 33-35, after spending the previous two years in the minors.I was shocked to see Chico had an 11-year MLB career.
11 years and a career WAR of -2.2. Chico played for some bad Cubs teams, a bad Angels team and ended his career with the awful '93 Mets, who went 59-103 and were the only team in history to finish seventh in the NL East. A pretty ignominious trajectory, but at least he got to play baseball.I was shocked to see Chico had an 11-year MLB career.
Nitpick, but Macfarlane's sole year on the Red Sox was 1995, not 1994. It was the first year I followed the Sox religiously.For all-disappointment catcher (in addition to Dave Valle, whose only job was to back up the mediocre Damon Berryhill and couldn't manage that) I suggest Spanky Macfarlane, whose only Sox season was 1994.
MacFarlane was supposed to fix the 1993 Berryhill/Valle mess. He had some pop and a RH swing made for Fenway. We signed him from KC, where in 1993 he'd posted an .821 OPS. He gave us a .723 OPS in 115 games, then left as a free agent. He resigned with KC in 1995, and, yup, posted a .838 OPS the next year. He must have missed the BBQ.
Not a nitpick, you're right--I had them muddled.Nitpick, but Macfarlane's sole year on the Red Sox was 1995, not 1994. It was the first year I followed the Sox religiously.
Why? He actually lived up to his potential. He also netted the Sox Josh Beckett. I can see him being on the all disappointment team but not the all potential team.Haven’t read the whole thread, but Hanley x2 is my pick
Or maybe it was Roman Mejias, the guy who was supposed to shore up the outfield and give us some power in '63. All we got was 11 dingers and a .227 avg.I'm still waiting for Jeff Newman to pepper the Wall. Or was that Bob Bailey?
I thought a lot about Offerman. The fanbase at the time didn’t seem to understand he’d been a genuinely good-to-great player for the Dodgers and Royals the previous few years. Duke saying he was replacing Mo Vaughn's OBP didn't help, even though it was a reasonable way to think about it. And he had a decent year for us in 1999, especially offensively, which he didn’t really get credit for.Does Jose Offerman count?
Bob Stanley, who is in the Red Sox Hall of Fame? I don't think so. Maybe he wasn't quite a savior, but he was a stalwart.Not Bob Stanley???
He hasn't thrown a pitch since 2019.Dice K to retire at end of the NPB season. In other news, Dice K is still pitching: