All-tall vs All-short teams

MainerInExile

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Hopefully a fun topic while waiting for actual news.  Let's make an All-tall team, made up of players who were tall for their positions, and an All-short team who are short for their positions.  The goal should be to have everyone on the tall team be at least as tall as the tallest on the short.  Who makes the teams?  And if the teams played each other, who would have trouble.
 
My nominations:
 
All-tall
PG - Magic Johnson - At 6'9", he could famously play all 5 positions on the court, yet mostly played the point.
SF - Kevin Garnett - Measured at 6'11" before the draft, but grew to be closer to 7'.  Played SF when young in MN.
PF - Dirk Nowitzki - A legit 7', yet has played almost exclusively PF.
 
All-Short
SG - Allen Iverson - Drafted to play the point, but ended up a shooting guard.  Listed at 6', but probably wasn't even that tall.
PF - Charles Barkley - Wasn't even 6'5" yet banged down low with the best of 'em.  Shortest player to ever lead the league in rebounds.
C - Bill Russel - One of the great centers of all time, was only 6'9".
 

Sprowl

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I'm not sure whether he qualifies for All-Tall or All-Short, but I nominate Bill Walton, who was 7'2", but insisted on being listed as 6'11" so that people wouldn't think he was a freak.
 

Devizier

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Lebron James is a fun case, because young Lebron could play SG for the tall team, while old Lebron could play PF for the short team.
Wes Unseld (6-7) is a good candidate for "short center". Bill Russell was only a short center in the modern context; plenty of guys from his era were 6-9.
Hard to imagine Muggsy Bogues defending Magic with anything resembling success, so you could go with Isaiah Thomas instead (5-9).
 

Infield Infidel

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Yao is probably the best 7'3"+ center. I'm not sure what is tall for a SG. Stacey Augmon was 6'8, but he wasn't very good offensively. There has to be some good 6'8 or 6'9 shooting guards
 
For the short team, Mugsy Bogues was 5'3" at PG and started for a few years.
 

Kliq

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Magic is probably the only no-brainer, everything else is up for grabs. Two things that should be cleared:
 
A) Are we trying to make the best team, or the shortest/tallest team? What I mean by that is because Muggsy Bouges is so short, and had a decent career, should he get on the short team, or should a better, but not quite as short player, like Isaiah Thomas, get picked? Same goes for the tall team.
 
B) Since players have progressively gotten bigger, do we take in account for era? Like Devinizer said, Russell wasn't a short Center unless you took it in the modern context.  In the 50s-60s having a 6-9 center was perfectly reasonable.
 
With that being said, the SG for the Tall team could be either Tracy McGrady or Ice. Mcgrady is a bit taller, but Ice was a bit better.
 
The best player to play ever listed above 7'2" is pre-injury Ralph Sampson. Then again, similar to the Walton scenario, Kareem was at least 7'4", but was listed at 7'2".
 

MainerInExile

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Kliq said:
Magic is probably the only no-brainer, everything else is up for grabs. Two things that should be cleared:
 
A) Are we trying to make the best team, or the shortest/tallest team? What I mean by that is because Muggsy Bouges is so short, and had a decent career, should he get on the short team, or should a better, but not quite as short player, like Isaiah Thomas, get picked? Same goes for the tall team.
 
B) Since players have progressively gotten bigger, do we take in account for era? Like Devinizer said, Russell wasn't a short Center unless you took it in the modern context.  In the 50s-60s having a 6-9 center was perfectly reasonable.
 
With that being said, the SG for the Tall team could be either Tracy McGrady or Ice. Mcgrady is a bit taller, but Ice was a bit better.
 
The best player to play ever listed above 7'2" is pre-injury Ralph Sampson. Then again, similar to the Walton scenario, Kareem was at least 7'4", but was listed at 7'2".
On A and B - hey, it's subjective.
 
Kareem is a good choice as the All-tall C.
 

MainerInExile

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Devizier said:
Hard to imagine Muggsy Bogues defending Magic with anything resembling success, so you could go with Isaiah Thomas instead (5-9).
Isiah is a great choice as the All-short PG.
 

HomeRunBaker

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SHORT staters
PG - Calvin Murphy
SG - Allen Iverson
C - Wes Unseld
SF - Chris Mullin
PF - Charles Barkley

SHORT reserves
PG - Mugsy Bogues
SG - Earl Boykins
C - Chuck Hayes
SF - Byron Houston
PF - Adrian Dantley


TALL starters
PG - Magic Johnson
SG - Tracy McGrady
C - Yao Ming
SF - Kevin Durant
PF - Ralph Sampson

TALL reserves
PG - Shaun Livingston
SG - George Gervin
C - Shawn Bradley
SF - Jonathan Bender
PF - Kevin Garnett


My squads will kick ass!!!
 

MainerInExile

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HomeRunBaker said:
SHORT staters
C - Wes Unseld
SF - Chris Mullin

My squads will kick ass!!!
Unseld is a great choice at C.  Mullin was 6'6", not that short for a SF.
 

HomeRunBaker

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MainerInExile said:
Unseld is a great choice at C.  Mullin was 6'6", not that short for a SF.
I'm beating my brain and can't think of any very good/great SF 6-5 or less.
 

Kliq

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HomeRunBaker said:
I'm beating my brain and can't think of any very good/great SF 6-5 or less.
 
Adrian Dantley was only 6'5", same with Hondo and Paul Arizin was only 6'4".
 
Elgin Baylor was only 6'5" and was a power forward, which pretty much sews up that spot. Oscar at 6'5" was a giant PG for his time period.
 

Devizier

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I find the tall team kind of boring, so here's my all-short team
 
PG Isiah Thomas, Muggsie Bogues
SG Jerry West, Allen Iverson
SF Elgin Baylor, John Havlicek
PF Charles Barkley, Grandmama Johnson
C Wes Unseld, Dolph Schayes
 

Infield Infidel

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Thomas is listed as 6'1", he was probably 5'11". Short, but not outlandishly so like Bogues, or either Nates Archibald or Robinson
 
 
Larry Johnson is a great pick for PF
 
Alonzo Mourning at center was short for his time. Listed at 6'10, probably 6'9"
 

Devizier

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Infield Infidel said:
Thomas is listed as 6'1", he was probably 5'11". Short, but not outlandishly so like Bogues, or either Nates Archibald or Robinson
 
 
Larry Johnson is a great pick for PF
 
Alonzo Mourning at center was short for his time. Listed at 6'10, probably 6'9"
 
I always read 'Zeke as being a shade under 6 foot, but you could go with Chris Paul at six-even. Hard to find great shorter PGs. Muggsy is a whole lot better than guys who were 5'8 or 5'9 (like Nate).
 

TroyOLeary

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According to Basketball Reference's listed positions and heights, the shortest guys at each position with 50+ career win shares:
 
PG Muggsy Bogues 5'3"
SG Allen Iverson 5'11"
SF Paul Arizin 6'4"
PF Johnny Green 6'5"
C Wes Unseld 6'7"
 

TiredParent

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David Thompson may be a good choice for the short team small forward position.  He was listed at 6'4, but that is really being generous.
 

Kliq

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For the sake of who would win, it would have to be the tall team. It isn't like we are lining up a bunch of tall stiffs against better, smaller players. If you were to take a team of small, highly skilled players, and put them against a team of bigger, just as skilled players, it wouldn't be a contest.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Magic is not only the obvious PG for the all-tall team, but also an option at center for the all-short.
 
How about two freak teams:
 
Short: Bogues, Webb, Calvin Murphy, Isiah, Chris Paul
 
Tall: Manute Bol, Georghe Muresan, Shawn Bradley, Bill Walton, and (to be sporting) Magic
 

lman4201

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I'd go with Penny backing up Magic on the tall team, and my short team would need to have a bench spot for Nate.
 

Devizier

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more interesting is fatties versus skinnies
 
here's my all-fat squad
 
C Oliver Miller, Eddy Curry, Thomas Hamilton
PF Shawn Kemp (latter day), Glen Davis, Robert Traylor, Mike Sweetney, Sean May
SF Boris Diaw, ?
SG ?
PG Baron Davis, ?
 
skinnies have plenty of candidates, but no team would be complete without Bol and Bradley as your centers.
 

MainerInExile

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Devizier said:
more interesting is fatties versus skinnies
 
here's my all-fat squad
 
C Oliver Miller, Eddy Curry, Thomas Hamilton
PF Shawn Kemp (latter day), Glen Davis, Robert Traylor, Mike Sweetney, Sean May
SF Boris Diaw, ?
SG ?
PG Baron Davis, ?
 
skinnies have plenty of candidates, but no team would be complete without Bol and Bradley as your centers.
The skinnies would crush the fatties.  Durant would be a pretty good SF for the skinnies.
 
edit: typo
 

Devizier

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MainerInExile said:
The skinnies would crush the fatties.  Durant would be a pretty good SF for the skinnies.
 
edit: typo
 
Well, if you're going to put Durant on the skinnies, you could put Shaq on the fatties -- he wasn't fat in the way that Oliver Miller was, but Durant is a lot more built up than someone like Moe Harkless.
 
I think guard play would favor the skinnies a lot. You've got guards like Kenny Anderson and Iverson backed up by tall hybrid guards like Shaun Livingston and MCW.
 
On the fatties, you've got Baron Davis and ??? Khalid El-Amin, maybe? Not too many fat guards make it in the NBA, which is why I'm terrified of Smart.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Devizier said:
more interesting is fatties versus skinnies
 
here's my all-fat squad
 
C Oliver Miller, Eddy Curry, Thomas Hamilton
PF Shawn Kemp (latter day), Glen Davis, Robert Traylor, Mike Sweetney, Sean May
SF Boris Diaw, ?
SG ?
PG Baron Davis, ?
 
skinnies have plenty of candidates, but no team would be complete without Bol and Bradley as your centers.
No love for Mel Turpin?
 

MainerInExile

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Devizier said:
 
Well, if you're going to put Durant on the skinnies, you could put Shaq on the fatties -- he wasn't fat in the way that Oliver Miller was, but Durant is a lot more built up than someone like Moe Harkless.
I meant more early career Durant, who has added some muscle. Celtics Shaq could be a fat. But he'd also be a useless.
 

Devizier

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MainerInExile said:
I meant more early career Durant, who has added some muscle. Celtics Shaq could be a fat. But he'd also be a useless.
 
Fair enough, but Shaq was already a fat fuck towards the end of his run with the Lakers. He was still a dominant player on both ends of the court, although he was starting to miss ~20 games a season by that point.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Devizier said:
more interesting is fatties versus skinnies
 
here's my all-fat squad
 
C Oliver Miller, Eddy Curry, Thomas Hamilton
PF Shawn Kemp (latter day), Glen Davis, Robert Traylor, Mike Sweetney, Sean May
SF Boris Diaw, ?
SG ?
PG Baron Davis, ?
 
skinnies have plenty of candidates, but no team would be complete without Bol and Bradley as your centers.
How quickly people forget one of the most skilled and versatile 4's the game has ever seen and the first "point forward" i can recall. John "Hot Plate" Williams could do it all until injuries and an extra 60 or so lbs ended his NBA career prematurely.
 

wutang112878

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They are more skilled than tall or short for their position but Wilt was listed at 7 1 but I swear he was taller than that.  Dave Cowens was a 6 9 center. 
 
Devizier said:
more interesting is fatties versus skinnies
 
here's my all-fat squad
 
C Oliver Miller, Eddy Curry, Thomas Hamilton
PF Shawn Kemp (latter day), Glen Davis, Robert Traylor, Mike Sweetney, Sean May
SF Boris Diaw, ?
SG ?
PG Baron Davis, ?
 
skinnies have plenty of candidates, but no team would be complete without Bol and Bradley as your centers.
 
Mark Jackson and Baron would have to have a weigh off.  Mitch Richmond might be the best candidate at the 2
 

kazuneko

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Kliq said:
The best player to play ever listed above 7'2" is pre-injury Ralph Sampson. Then again, similar to the Walton scenario, Kareem was at least 7'4", but was listed at 7'2".
Although Walton may have identified himself as shorter than his actual height there are plenty of tall players who probably did the opposite. Sampson is the most obvious example of this. 
Mark Eaton (7ft 3.75 inches) famously claimed that Sampson was a couple of inches shorter than him, and as this* photo shows Sampson is also slightly shorter than Kareem and just about exactly the same height as Walton. Assuming Eaton was correct, it's likely that Kareem is about 7ft 2 inches, and Sampson and Walton are around 7ft 1. Considering that Kareem is both taller and better than either Walton or Sampson, it would seem that for the purposes of this discussion there would be no reason to consider either of them as the center for the "all tall" team. That said, this also eliminates all three names from the discussion of best center over 7ft 3, leaving Yao Ming as the only legitimate option for that title.
In both Olympics and pre-draft measurements Yao Ming was measured as 7ft 5. He also was a pretty damn good player in his prime - with a five year stretch of averaging just about exactly 20ppg, 10rpg and 2bpg. Since he is three inches taller than Kareem, and leagues better than any other center in the above 7ft 3 inch category it would seem that Yao Ming should be the obvious choice for Center on the all tall team....
 
*https://twitter.com/kaj33/status/244309369192337408