Alpha Wolf: Eliot Wolf named de facto GM

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Regarding the 53-man roster, he has final say in any disagreement with Mayo. There are other ways one could parse the text, but I think that is the most commonsense straightforward reading.
That feels very plausible

Regarding the bolded part, it's just worth flagging that we don't know for sure if this has been the case

I mean, we all talk like Wolf is the one who's been picking the groceries, but we don't actually know if he is


...



Edit: Partly just to follow the logic a little further down this road... if Wolf is picking the groceries why does the team not refer to him as the General Manager? Why do they go out of their way to make a point of how they don't have a General Manager when they describe Wolf's position? What do people broadly assume a General Manager does that Wolf is not authorized/empowered to do, and which they're alluding to by making this point?
 
Oct 12, 2023
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That feels very plausible

Regarding the bolded part, it's just worth flagging that we don't know for sure if this has been the case

I mean, we all talk like Wolf is the one who's been picking the groceries, but we don't actually know if he is


...



Edit: Partly just to follow the logic a little further down this road... if Wolf is picking the groceries why does the team not refer to him as the General Manager? Why do they go out of their way to make a point of how they don't have a General Manager when they describe Wolf's position? What do people broadly assume a General Manager does that Wolf is not authorized/empowered to do, and which they're alluding to by making this point?
who else would be? Jonathan Kraft?

Wolf is the EVP of player personnel and by all public accounts, the guy running the draft and working on trades and free agency deals.

Kraft doesn’t like the term general manager. I think it’s just that simple. He didn’t have one under Parcells, he made Grier VP of player personnel when Grier was buying the groceries, he didn’t have one under BB

this is just how Kraft runs things. Wolf is just Grier redux
 

Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache

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who else would be? Jonathan Kraft?
Jonathan Kraft could do the decision-making that GMs typically do, sure. Or Mayo could have been the final decision-maker on player personnel. Or maybe they didn't have one person who was understood to have the final say, and ran things based on some sorta "ya gotta reach consensus" basis involving a group of people.



I think it’s... simple... [Kraft] made Grier VP of player personnel when Grier was buying the groceries, he didn’t have one under BB... Wolf is just Grier redux
I guess I'd ask you the same question I asked @sezwho, and not in an argumentative way... what's your evidence for this?

The Globe reported explicitly on Kraft transitioning responsibility for player personnel decisions from Parcells to Grier when he elevated the second. Has the Globe or anyone else reported explicitly from on-the-record sources on who has had decision-making authority over player personnel during this last season?
 

Super Nomario

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They ran last years draft off of procedures and processes for scouting and player evalutation that Bill had in place and had used for 20+ years. The player evaluation was entirely how Bill, and thus everyone in the building, had done it for 20 years. Bill was fired in mid-January and the draft is in April with the coaching hiring cycle, combine, pro days, free agency and all that in between. It is not possible to overhaul the entire draft process and player evaluation in that time frame. Even if they fired Wolf today the new GM would be drafting players in April based on what work Wolf and the rest of the front office did during the past year.

Laugh away but the grading scale is something they need to work on. The problem with the Polk pick wasn't that they singled him out and chose him over McConkey or other WR. The problem was they had Polk graded similarly to McConkey and the trade indicates they were fine with either and trading back meant they could grab an extra pick and still end up with one of their guys. The problem wasn't the trade, the problem that needs to be addressed is why Polk was graded similarly to McConkey in the first place.
Yes and no. The scouting cake, as you say, is largely baked during the season and Wolf's influence on that was limited to whatever his Director of Scouting duties were under Belichick. To the extent Wolf wants changes in personnel or grading scale, it wasn't in place last year.

OTOH, the latter part of the draft process involves a lot of cross-checking of the initial scouting work, by national scouts, senior FO personnel, and coaches. There was plenty of time for Wolf to watch both McConkey and Polk and make up his own mind as to who was better. I would expect the lead decision-maker will have personally watched anyone they're considering drafting on day one or two. The latter rounds are where the low-level scouts really make their hay and where I'd expect the lag in changes to present more of an issue.

I would come down on the side of blaming Wolf here, certainly moreso than Belichick, though it's possible it's more complicated than that. Tyler Hughes coaches Polk at Washington; maybe the coaching staff had a big voice and Wolf let them carry the day despite his own misgivings? Maybe he was the guy pushing for Polk all along. We'll never know. But Wolf is the guy and for this kind of decision, I think it's fair to hold him responsible.


I'm not really sure what to think of Wolf. I'm sure this old article was shared on here at one point, but worth a good re-read given the recent changes: https://heavy.com/sports/nfl/new-england-patriots/eliot-wolf-nfl-draft-track-record/.

I think his last stint at the Browns could be instructive but it's hard to say. He was hired in January 2018 and with the benefit of hindsight, they nailed that following draft - Baker, Corbett, Ward, Chubb, Avery. But then in 2019, in the draft that you'd think would have more Wolf fingerpints, the results were maybe good not great?. They traded for OBJ and that didn't work out ideally. They did pick up Takitaki in round 3 and Mack Wilson and Austin Seibert in Round 6, so....ok? *That* draft feels a lot more like what we've seen from the Pats lately with Wolf.

All the talk about new grading and whatnot, as far as drafts, I'd lean towards the viewpoint that he was a part of some really good drafting when he had lesser influence at Green Bay and Cleveland. And that the drafts where he presumably had more control or influence - GB in 16 and 17, CLE in 19, NE 24 - the results were middling (outside of Maye of course, which deserves a lot of credit).

Overall, it makes me wonder whether he's the right guy to be picking the groceries moving forward.
Wolf came up on the pro scouting side, not college scouting, so it's unclear how much input he would have had in these drafts.
 
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SMU_Sox

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I will say for all the excuses made for the Polk pick, all Wolf had to do was check the WR rankings thread in the draft sub-forum here and this thread probably doesn't exist. SMU and I both had Polk listed in the mid teens and both had Ladd graded top 8. And they say drafting is hard...
I know a handful of folks who had Polk as a near first. Of these guys some saw him as a big slot or flanker. Some saw him as a primarily outside guy whether that’s flanker or X.

The Pats were definitely in the minority with how highly they viewed him and for what role. And this notion that anyone, let alone a WR consensus number 60, is "plug-and-play" is beyond ridiculous. No draft prospect is technically plug-and-play but you might think some will start week 1 year 1. Usually those are the top guys too. That quote is telling to me... telling in that I am not sure he knows what he is doing or he is way too overconfident in his convictions (I think it is a mix but a lot of the latter).
 
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Jonathan Kraft could do the decision-making that GMs typically do, sure. Or Mayo could have been the final decision-maker on player personnel. Or maybe they didn't have one person who was understood to have the final say, and ran things based on some sorta "ya gotta reach consensus" basis involving a group of people.





I guess I'd ask you the same question I asked @sezwho, and not in an argumentative way... what's your evidence for this?

The Globe reported explicitly on Kraft transitioning responsibility for player personnel decisions from Parcells to Grier when he elevated the second. Has the Globe or anyone else reported explicitly from on-the-record sources on who has had decision-making authority over player personnel during this last season?
I dont know about the Globe but the Patriots themselves said he had overall direction and control of the roster which was already posted upthread

The New England Patriots announced today that Eliot Wolf has been named executive vice president of player personnel. In that role, Wolf's responsibilities will include the overall direction of the personnel department, the management of the salary cap and in control of the 53-man roster
do we really think Mayo was making all the decisions or Kraft in March and April before the formal announcement?
 
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Oct 12, 2023
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First of all that press release is from May, after the draft and free agency. He wasn't given the title until then.

Secondly, he is ultimately the decision maker and that falls on his record as with any GM, but he's not doing it unilaterally and is relying on data and input from the rest of the staff based on hours and hours of work on draft prospects and free agency.
given the total failure of last offseason, everyone involved should be tossed out. Regardless of whether or not Wolf had final say before May (and if he didn’t, who did? Bob Kraft himself? Seems unlikely)

if BB was fired because the personnel on the roster degraded, it seems insane to keep the entire personnel department except him. Especially after a total failure of an offseason where the roster, other than the glaringly obvious layup of a 1st round pick, got worse.

What reason is there to keep Wolf, Groh et al?

Other than him being a nepo baby and working for a few well regarded GMs, what evidence is there that Wolf is actually competent?

it’s wild to me that people want to give him credit for being part of a personnel team outside of New England and then absolve him of any responsibility for the current state of the roster now which is apparently all BB and (Jonathan Kraft? Mayo? Some nebulous committee)’s fault.

what is the positive argument for keeping Wolf and Groh? People in the media report that they are well regarded by other NFL execs? Well Mayo was “highly regarded” as well and that turned out pretty poorly. That seems to be it. They’re well liked or well respected. So is Trent Baalke apparently.
 

Auger34

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In reading all of this thread, it seems like I was too down on Wolf as it's tough to get your program going in a limited time.

However, it does seem like some posters are being way too lenient. I get that Belichick's grades were being used but I find it really hard to believe that Wolf (and his inner circle) just had no time at all to watch Polk/Wallace/Robinson or people in their draft range. In other words what @Super Nomario said. He definitely has to wear a decent portion of the bad FA class and draft
 

jablo1312

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The scouting department does the leg work on all the propects and then brings their evaluations and recommendations to Wolf, who probably gets a data dump of information on the prospects. But he's not sitting there analyzing tape and film on all the proepscts, it's not possible for him to do that to hundreds/thousands of players. Then as a group they collaborate based on the evals and recommendatios and come up with their big board.

The root issue is the eval and scouting process that led to Polk being graded similarly to McConkey. That's what they set out to change and fix over the past year.
What if there's no real issue with the eval and scouting process. What if he just busted? RAS looked pretty dang good (big caveat there's no agility testing)

https://x.com/MathBomb/status/1764063130219368903

Maybe they just got unlucky. I still haven't seen any evidence that any front office group or personell executive can reliably draft above average repeatedly. The OL picks seem like reaches, sure, so maybe the team should just draft via consensus big board. Respectfully there are a number of other areas regarding team construction that are indicative of an above/below average front office then making an incorrect draft pick in the 2nd round.
 

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I dont know about the Globe but the Patriots themselves said he had overall direction and control of the roster which was already posted upthread

Sure. And as you've so thoughtfully read the things up-thread you've already seen my thoughts on that press release


In the scenario where you don't post any evidence for your claim that Wolf is the final decision-maker on Patriots player personnel decisions (e.g. trades, who we draft, what free agents we make offers to and how much we offer, etc.) I'm gonna assume you have none and are, as they say 'round the neighborhood, talkin' outta yer ass


If Wolf has not had or does not have that power, then it changes who we judge for how those things have panned out. Because influencing a decision is different than making a decision. Whether you are good at both, bad at both, or good at one but not the other.

And because on principle I don't believe in punishing people for someone different being bad at their job


However, it does seem like some posters are being way too lenient
Not sure who this is a reference to, but FWIW I'm on the record as wanting Wolf and Groh replaced (or demoted below) a new, externally-hired GM

I am also, with mixed success, trying to distinguish between things we can be somewhat confident are true because they've been reported or have sources, vs. things that people are inventing in their heads and then passing around as if they are facts.

But my attempts to do the second shouldn't be mistaken as support for Wolf.
 

j44thor

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The scouting department does the leg work on all the propects and then brings their evaluations and recommendations to Wolf, who probably gets a data dump of information on the prospects. But he's not sitting there analyzing tape and film on all the proepscts, it's not possible for him to do that to hundreds/thousands of players. Then as a group they collaborate based on the evals and recommendatios and come up with their big board.

The root issue is the eval and scouting process that led to Polk being graded similarly to McConkey. That's what they set out to change and fix over the past year.
He might not be watching film on every player at every small school that isn't among the top 500 draft eligible players but it is malpractice if he hasn't watched several hours of film on any player they are considering with a top 100 pick. If hobbyists and Youtubers who have full time jobs can do this I would certainly expect a GM who works 100+hrs per week close to draft season is watching film on the players he is considering. They should have a production team that cuts and edits the film to optimize the players they are considering. I can't imagine a single GM is making picks on players they have never watched film on.
 

lexrageorge

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He might not be watching film on every player at every small school that isn't among the top 500 draft eligible players but it is malpractice if he hasn't watched several hours of film on any player they are considering with a top 100 pick. If hobbyists and Youtubers who have full time jobs can do this I would certainly expect a GM who works 100+hrs per week close to draft season is watching film on the players he is considering. They should have a production team that cuts and edits the film to optimize the players they are considering. I can't imagine a single GM is making picks on players they have never watched film on.
The 100 hour week bullshit is media exaggeration, except for perhaps a couple of weeks before the draft. But 2-3 pre-draft weeks doesn’t allow a GM to watch several hours of film on every top 100 prospect. Maybe an edited hour or two is more realistic.
 

jercra

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Wait, are GMs expected to be the best scouts on the team? For all positions? Should he be able to distinguish what makes Polk and McKonkey better players and fits for the system planned by the coaching staff? And be able to do that with an hour of edited film? Should he be able to do that for all of the 6th round interior OL men and special teams guys?

My boss could never do my job, but he's good at making decisions based on the information I and the rest of my peers provide. I always assumed being the GM was much more about being able to make decisions based on a wealth of information from others, not from watching tape.
 

Silverdude2167

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Wait, are GMs expected to be the best scouts on the team? For all positions? Should he be able to distinguish what makes Polk and McKonkey better players and fits for the system planned by the coaching staff? And be able to do that with an hour of edited film? Should he be able to do that for all of the 6th round interior OL men and special teams guys?

My boss could never do my job, but he's good at making decisions based on the information I and the rest of my peers provide. I always assumed being the GM was much more about being able to make decisions based on a wealth of information from others, not from watching tape.
I agree with your point, and it is why I think it is insane that they only got rid of BB and not the entire front office unless people really think BB just threw darts.
 

ManicCompression

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Wait, are GMs expected to be the best scouts on the team? For all positions? Should he be able to distinguish what makes Polk and McKonkey better players and fits for the system planned by the coaching staff? And be able to do that with an hour of edited film? Should he be able to do that for all of the 6th round interior OL men and special teams guys?

My boss could never do my job, but he's good at making decisions based on the information I and the rest of my peers provide. I always assumed being the GM was much more about being able to make decisions based on a wealth of information from others, not from watching tape.
I was just going to say this. Managers are supposed to manage and delegate and trust the team they’ve put together. They’re not supposed to make themselves a single point of failure because they’re the only one who thinks they can do the job well.

If anything, the best managers make it so they can leave and someone on their team can successfully take over.

I agree with your point, and it is why I think it is insane that they only got rid of BB and not the entire front office unless people really think BB just threw darts.
OR BB had done such a poor job maintaining the structure of his staff that he had to be replaced so someone could create a new structure.

I’m no Wolf stan and I think he’s made mistakes, but the expectation for him to turnover an entire department in 3 months as an interim leader is a bit much. I don’t know how much he’s built it out in the interim (or where to find that info) but hopefully it’s no longer the skeleton crew that BB left behind.
 

Van Everyman

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Curran, I believe, said on TV the other night that he heard from a source that the grading system was “mostly in Belichick’s head.” Which is not surprising. I think the underlying point is that the scouting system they’d been using was not only highly reliant on Belichick but also highly customized to him – a coach who arguably knows more about it football than anyone in human history. So I think it was less “throwing darts” than a system that was so specific to him as the top guy that it wasn’t particularly usable by other people.

The broader point here, that I think everyone is discovering including the Krafts, is that Belichick's system is really hard to replicate, even if you break it out into separate operations for personnel and coaching. And it's probably even really hard for Belichick himself to replicate at this point given his age and general lack of Toms, Ernies and Scars to lean on.
 

Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache

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Wait, are GMs expected to be the best scouts on the team? For all positions?... ...And be able to do that with an hour of edited film? Should he be able to do that for all of the 6th round interior OL men and special teams guys?
Very much appreciate this post, and the rhetorical questions

My boss could never do my job, but he's good at making decisions based on the information I and the rest of my peers provide. I always assumed being the GM was much more about being able to make decisions based on a wealth of information from others, not from watching tape.
Agree with the spirit of this

And would just add the flag that many are supposing that Wolf is the decision-maker for who we selected in last year's draft. But to my knowledge that's never been confirmed or reported anywhere. People keep asserting it. But we don't know if it's true.

So there's a scenario where Wolf is similar to your boss in that he's in charge of supervising people and summarizing their large wealth of information into actionable decisions. But he doesn't get to make those decisions (or at least not unilaterally). Mayo or Jonathan Kraft or some consensus-of-a-committee process made the decisions.
 

Cellar-Door

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One thing I notice, the front office under bill was tiny comparatively, maybe not quite Bengals, but small.

Wolf came in, he hired Highsmith, a high level guy, he hired Belongia to take over as lead midwest scout, added 3 more experienced guys to the scouting staff. He also promoted Pat Stewart, who had only been added in 2023 (after a bunch of time in CAR and PHI, he was originally in NE in the early/mid 2010s), and a few other guys, most of whom were relatively new. So while there are definitely a number of guys who have been there forever, Wolf does appear to have made some serious changes at the top... Groh is the only really high ranking guy the kept in place, so I wouldn't say it's exactly a status-quo from Bill to Wolf.
 

Justthetippett

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One thing I notice, the front office under bill was tiny comparatively, maybe not quite Bengals, but small.

Wolf came in, he hired Highsmith, a high level guy, he hired Belongia to take over as lead midwest scout, added 3 more experienced guys to the scouting staff. He also promoted Pat Stewart, who had only been added in 2023 (after a bunch of time in CAR and PHI, he was originally in NE in the early/mid 2010s), and a few other guys, most of whom were relatively new. So while there are definitely a number of guys who have been there forever, Wolf does appear to have made some serious changes at the top... Groh is the only really high ranking guy the kept in place, so I wouldn't say it's exactly a status-quo from Bill to Wolf.
This is part of why many us of were optimistic last spring. It looked professional, more expansive, more collaborative, more current. Then they sort of boned the draft. Early to say that definitively, but at the very least they made some questionable decisions. Looks like they will get at least one more chance to show something. For Wolf's sake (and the team's), this one is even more critical.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Wait, are GMs expected to be the best scouts on the team? For all positions? Should he be able to distinguish what makes Polk and McKonkey better players and fits for the system planned by the coaching staff? And be able to do that with an hour of edited film? Should he be able to do that for all of the 6th round interior OL men and special teams guys?

My boss could never do my job, but he's good at making decisions based on the information I and the rest of my peers provide. I always assumed being the GM was much more about being able to make decisions based on a wealth of information from others, not from watching tape.
i think the GM should understand the team’s needs (McConkey and Polk have very different skill sets) and for early round picks, certainly have a deep understanding of the top hundred or so guys

listen to any former GM, they had a very good grasp on the players. Far more than an hour of edited film.

Rick Spielman has talked at length aboht how much time he would spend during the week watching college film, traveling to college games, watching pro film (for potential veteran acquisitions)

are they as knee deep in film as scouts? No. But they’re doing summer scouting, watching film all year long, paying attention to the top couple hundred guys etc.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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The 100 hour week bullshit is media exaggeration, except for perhaps a couple of weeks before the draft. But 2-3 pre-draft weeks doesn’t allow a GM to watch several hours of film on every top 100 prospect. Maybe an edited hour or two is more realistic.
Both Scott Pioli and Rick Spielman (and others) have talked a lot about their routine as far as scouting and it involved a lot of travel and watching film throughout the whole college season, meeting with area and regional scouts once or twice a week, and then obviously deep dives after the season and heading into the combine.

100 hours a week x 52 weeks? No obviously not but a good GM or director of personnel is spending a ton of time of prospects throughout the whole year and not just waiting for a couple of conference calls in the late winter or spring to source info from his scouts.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2025/01/06/giardi-mixed-emotions-in-foxborough-about-mayo-but-the-change-felt-inevitable

"Offensive line. Wide receiver. Defensive line. Bottom of the league here, there, and everywhere. Can't rush the passer. Can't stop the run. Getting blown out of gaps. Do you think they were coached to do that? We were asking players to do the most basic things, but in many cases, it was asking them to play beyond their capabilities. Hard to be consistently competitive."
 

SMU_Sox

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Curran, I believe, said on TV the other night that he heard from a source that the grading system was “mostly in Belichick’s head.” Which is not surprising. I think the underlying point is that the scouting system they’d been using was not only highly reliant on Belichick but also highly customized to him – a coach who arguably knows more about it football than anyone in human history. So I think it was less “throwing darts” than a system that was so specific to him as the top guy that it wasn’t particularly usable by other people.

The broader point here, that I think everyone is discovering including the Krafts, is that Belichick's system is really hard to replicate, even if you break it out into separate operations for personnel and coaching. And it's probably even really hard for Belichick himself to replicate at this point given his age and general lack of Toms, Ernies and Scars to lean on.
His grading system, which is used in some degree by 1/4th of the league conservatively, is absolutely not in his head. Any chance you can get the full quote? War Room does a great job covering part of this.

Seth Wickersham gives a short example of it

Without knowing the full quote I can't say if we're talking about the same thing or not. I am sure Bill did a lot in his head - and maybe the final grade and how he got to that was in his head, but "grading system" could mean a lot of things.
 

Silverdude2167

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https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2025/01/06/giardi-mixed-emotions-in-foxborough-about-mayo-but-the-change-felt-inevitable

"Offensive line. Wide receiver. Defensive line. Bottom of the league here, there, and everywhere. Can't rush the passer. Can't stop the run. Getting blown out of gaps. Do you think they were coached to do that? We were asking players to do the most basic things, but in many cases, it was asking them to play beyond their capabilities. Hard to be consistently competitive."
Yet they played above-average defense last year.
I am in the running for the president of the Fire Wolf fan club, but maybe the coaching was a lot worse on defense this year.
 

rodderick

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Yet they played above-average defense last year.
I am in the running for the president of the Fire Wolf fan club, but maybe the coaching was a lot worse on defense this year.
Yeah, personnel isn't an excuse on that side of the ball. Not like they're great there, but have enough to at worst be a middle of the pack defense, not at the bottom of the league.
 

j44thor

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Yet they played above-average defense last year.
I am in the running for the president of the Fire Wolf fan club, but maybe the coaching was a lot worse on defense this year.
The run defense cratered from 2023-2024, in 2023 NE allowed an outstanding 3.3 YPC which went up to a slightly higher than league average 4.4 in 2024. Key losses in 2024 included Lawrence Guy, considered a standout against the run along with Barmore and Bentley.
Coaching is partly to blame but I don't think the loss of those 3 should go unnoticed. Of course the latter 2 were unexpected but NE really didn't have a replacement for Guy. Guy wasn't the same player this year that he had been so I'm not going to bemoan not re-signing him but best I can tell they really only resigned Jennings who was solid in 23 and Uche who can't stop the run at all. I think the loss of Guy shouldn't go unnoticed from a replacement value perspective along with no internal replacements for Bentley and Barmore.
Deatrich Wise really seemed to take a step back this season after being a consistently average player for several years. I wonder if that is more scheme or simply age related decline. Fixing the run defense should be a key goal for 2025 which is why I'd lean towards Graham over Carter at #4 and hope they beef up the LB corps.
 

sezwho

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The run defense cratered from 2023-2024, in 2023 NE allowed an outstanding 3.3 YPC which went up to a slightly higher than league average 4.4 in 2024. Key losses in 2024 included Lawrence Guy, considered a standout against the run along with Barmore and Bentley.
Coaching is partly to blame but I don't think the loss of those 3 should go unnoticed. Of course the latter 2 were unexpected but NE really didn't have a replacement for Guy. Guy wasn't the same player this year that he had been so I'm not going to bemoan not re-signing him but best I can tell they really only resigned Jennings who was solid in 23 and Uche who can't stop the run at all. I think the loss of Guy shouldn't go unnoticed from a replacement value perspective along with no internal replacements for Bentley and Barmore.
Deatrich Wise really seemed to take a step back this season after being a consistently average player for several years. I wonder if that is more scheme or simply age related decline. Fixing the run defense should be a key goal for 2025 which is why I'd lean towards Graham over Carter at #4 and hope they beef up the LB corps.
Agree the core problem is personnel, but believe you can coach up run defense more readily than a pass rush. The first is more Xs and Os and the second is Jimmys and Joes. Again, there wasn’t much of either last year.
 

Justthetippett

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The run defense cratered from 2023-2024, in 2023 NE allowed an outstanding 3.3 YPC which went up to a slightly higher than league average 4.4 in 2024. Key losses in 2024 included Lawrence Guy, considered a standout against the run along with Barmore and Bentley.
Coaching is partly to blame but I don't think the loss of those 3 should go unnoticed. Of course the latter 2 were unexpected but NE really didn't have a replacement for Guy. Guy wasn't the same player this year that he had been so I'm not going to bemoan not re-signing him but best I can tell they really only resigned Jennings who was solid in 23 and Uche who can't stop the run at all. I think the loss of Guy shouldn't go unnoticed from a replacement value perspective along with no internal replacements for Bentley and Barmore.
Deatrich Wise really seemed to take a step back this season after being a consistently average player for several years. I wonder if that is more scheme or simply age related decline. Fixing the run defense should be a key goal for 2025 which is why I'd lean towards Graham over Carter at #4 and hope they beef up the LB corps.
Maybe Graham is that good, and they of course have to go through the process, but I think you could address the DT and rush defense situation in FA much easier than getting a premier Edge player, which Carter is touted to be. An Edge on a rookie contract is much more valuable. That's why I'd lean toward him if the grades are similar.
 

Jimbodandy

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The Polk stuff is kind of weird to me….he had the same WR coach as he did last year in college, why would he regress so much?
He was a possession receiver even in college. I suppose that his ability to secure the ball in the rare events that he gets open certainly regressed, but the site that I like to use had him ranked 19th among receivers and pretty much every scouting report that I read said--and I'm paraphrasing--that the guy won't get separation in the pros. Sure in his senior year, playing opposite the #9 pick in the draft who ate the opponent's best CB if not a double team every down, he caught a bunch of balls and had decent RAC. And if the game slows down and he cures his dropsies, I can imagine him turning into an Amendola type. He's not cooked. But he was a shit pick there. Guy like that, maybe you take in the fourth and give him ST jobs for a year or two until he proves something.
 

Cellar-Door

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He was a possession receiver even in college. I suppose that his ability to secure the ball in the rare events that he gets open certainly regressed, but the site that I like to use had him ranked 19th among receivers and pretty much every scouting report that I read said--and I'm paraphrasing--that the guy won't get separation in the pros. Sure in his senior year, playing opposite the #9 pick in the draft who ate the opponent's best CB if not a double team every down, he caught a bunch of balls and had decent RAC. And if the game slows down and he cures his dropsies, I can imagine him turning into an Amendola type. He's not cooked. But he was a shit pick there. Guy like that, maybe you take in the fourth and give him ST jobs for a year or two until he proves something.
His biggest problem in transition to the pros is that in college he was really good at:
1. catching everything
2. being the more physical player at the catch point.

His tape is littered with plays of him making tough catches, catching bad throws, and just bodying DBs to win 50/50 balls. The drops may be mental, but I also think he needs to hit the weight room, he was not ready for the increased level of strength playing NFL DBs.
 

jk333

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He was a possession receiver even in college. I suppose that his ability to secure the ball in the rare events that he gets open certainly regressed, but the site that I like to use had him ranked 19th among receivers and pretty much every scouting report that I read said--and I'm paraphrasing--that the guy won't get separation in the pros. Sure in his senior year, playing opposite the #9 pick in the draft who ate the opponent's best CB if not a double team every down, he caught a bunch of balls and had decent RAC. And if the game slows down and he cures his dropsies, I can imagine him turning into an Amendola type. He's not cooked. But he was a shit pick there. Guy like that, maybe you take in the fourth and give him ST jobs for a year or two until he proves something.
His college teammate, Jalen McMillan started this year slow but finished strong also with 37 catches for 470 yards out of the 92nd pick.

I’m not pining for McMillan specifically but they should have gone tackle in the 2nd and then picked one of these receivers in the 3rd. Of note that the tackles in the 2nd round had poor rookie years, so the results may have been similar. But the process would have made more sense.
 

Auger34

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His college teammate, Jalen McMillan started this year slow but finished strong also with 37 catches for 470 yards out of the 92nd pick.

I’m not pining for McMillan specifically but they should have gone tackle in the 2nd and then picked one of these receivers in the 3rd. Of note that the tackles in the 2nd round had poor rookie years, so the results may have been similar. But the process would have made more sense.
In one of the most recent Bucs games one of the announcers said that some Washington coaches thought that McMillan was their best WR before injury. This was obviously a minority opinion since no one in their right mind would have taken Odunze over McMillan but thought it was interesting nonetheless
 

Granite Sox

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The Polk stuff is kind of weird to me….he had the same WR coach as he did last year in college, why would he regress so much?
It’s a little nitpicky, but he didn’t have the same WR coach. Hughes was an offensive analyst at Washington, not a named position coach. JaMarcus Shepherd was the receivers coach.

Hughes and Underwood were completely overmatched this year.
 
Last edited:
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His college teammate, Jalen McMillan started this year slow but finished strong also with 37 catches for 470 yards out of the 92nd pick.

I’m not pining for McMillan specifically but they should have gone tackle in the 2nd and then picked one of these receivers in the 3rd. Of note that the tackles in the 2nd round had poor rookie years, so the results may have been similar. But the process would have made more sense.
McMillan was awesome in 2022 and was getting buzz as a top 40-50 prospect. Questions about his durability and play strength dropped him

He was always clearly the 2nd best WR on that roster. Unlike Polk, he could actually get open on his own against man coverage and some half decent CB’s

I really don’t know how anyone could watch that offense and come away thinking Polk was the 2nd best WR. When McMillan was healthy, he was the clear cut best option opposite Odunze.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Durability is and has always been the issue with McMillan. He has a lot of ability but its often unavailable.
 

Eddie Jurak

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So Wolf is staying but Vrabel's guy is joining the front office. What I read into that is that on day 1 Vrabel will have more authority than Mayo ever had, and that Wolf is going to have to work well with Vrabel if he plans on sticking around.

I’m hearing #Giants personnel advisor Ryan Cowden is expected to be added to the #Patriots personnel mix, but not with a GM title. I believe Eliot Wolf will retain personnel power. However Cowden’s addition to the front office is Vrabel’s preference. Dynamics will be interesting.

View: https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/1878491309268193572
 

Justthetippett

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So Wolf is staying but Vrabel's guy is joining the front office. What I read into that is that on day 1 Vrabel will have more authority than Mayo ever had, and that Wolf is going to have to work well with Vrabel if he plans on sticking around.

I’m hearing #Giants personnel advisor Ryan Cowden is expected to be added to the #Patriots personnel mix, but not with a GM title. I believe Eliot Wolf will retain personnel power. However Cowden’s addition to the front office is Vrabel’s preference. Dynamics will be interesting.

View: https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/1878491309268193572
Seems like a recipe for disaster if things don't go well pretty quickly. Wolf should be the guy or out; not something in between where he's potentially undermined by the HCs guy.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Seems like a recipe for disaster if things don't go well pretty quickly. Wolf should be the guy or out; not something in between where he's potentially undermined by the HCs guy.
I don't think so. They will all work together well or they won't, and in the latter case Wolf won't last long.
 

wpilsbury

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How is this guy Cowden’s longer track record? Being with the Giants last two years doesn’t inspire much confidence even if he’s Vrabel’s first hand picked hire
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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How is this guy Cowden’s longer track record? Being with the Giants last two years doesn’t inspire much confidence even if he’s Vrabel’s first hand picked hire
I posted this from NJ.com from a few years ago in the HC thread. Its actually unclear how much credit Cowden should get for good picks given how NFL front offices allegedly work (more consensus in non BB type situations) and its also tough to tell his misses. He may have several Polks in his record.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't think so. They will all work together well or they won't, and in the latter case Wolf won't last long.
I think they're keeping Wolf to continue what he started in the summer, overhauling the scouting system, plus give him one offseason with his own structure in place (with heavy input from Vrabel and his guy) so that they don't have to start from scratch again. If he fails, or if they need a scapegoat after a bad season he's lined up for it.

I do think part of the reason for it beyond the continuity is... Vrabel does not have an obvious safe-pick GM... he allegedly pushed out Robinson in TEN (or at least asked for more power and Robinson made the owner choose), Cowden's track record isn't elite.. not sure Pioli wants to be a GM he's been out for years, Rick Smith hasn't worked in the NFL in years... he'd have to go with somebody he doesn't know well...

How is this guy Cowden’s longer track record? Being with the Giants last two years doesn’t inspire much confidence even if he’s Vrabel’s first hand picked hire
Hard to say, as always with guys who don't have the top job....
He worked his way up the scouting ladder in CAR during some pretty decent years but never got higher than assistant director of college scouting.
Moved to TEN, got some promotions until he was Robinson's #2 guy.
Was interim GM for a couple months when Robinson got fired... he ran the 2023 draft... not great (Skoronski at 11 who is a guard and has been... okay?, Levis in the 2nd.. Spears a backup RB in the 3rd, nothing much else)

He's not generally one of the top top candidates for jobs but has gotten some interviews... probably seen as around the same level as Wolf maybe just below in terms of GM prospects.
 

Van Everyman

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Before we start the inevitable “OH MY GOD THIS IS HEADING FOR AN INEVITABLE POWER STRUGGLE” narrative where we invent countless scenarios in which Vrabel and Wolf clash over players, it’s worth noting that Vrabel referenced Wolf multiple times in his press conference today and seemed to already have a very friendly relationship with one another (Vrabel referenced an inside joke he had with Wolf in his opening statement).

And with that, please feel free to move directly toward the “OH MY GOD WOLF AND THE KRAFTS ARE BLAMING POLK’S FAILURE ENTIRELY ON MAYO” panic.
 

8slim

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I've been as down on Wolf as anyone over the past couple months. But if Vrabel genuinely wants him to stick around then I'm certainly on board with that.

There won't be a Power Struggle (tm). We'll know a year from now how it pans out. And if we have another poor draft or a mediocre FA class, Wolf will be gone without a doubt.