Analysis of Celtics Games (2020-2021)

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I don't know if you're serious, but I understand the sentiment. When Kemba comes back, our point guard and big men rotations will be a solid step up over last year.

*edit - one negative from last night, Nesmith. Considering the hole in the Celtic's wing depth from Hayward's departure, him debuting with a DNP-CD is a bit disappointing. Brown/Tatum/Smart won't combine for 109 minutes every night (about 10 minutes more than last year) and Semi looked good, but I hope he's able to step up and get some time, even if it's just standing in the corner waiting for open shots for 12 minutes per game (especially before Romeo comes back).
Nesmith needs to be able to play defense. He's okay on rotations but looked like he lost his guy a few times when there was traffic and when he was one-on-one. He did have that nice recovery block on Maxey but I think he was beat too often in pre-season to play him against MIL. I'm sure he'll get minutes against other teams.
 

OurF'ingCity

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edit - one negative from last night, Nesmith. Considering the hole in the Celtic's wing depth from Hayward's departure, him debuting with a DNP-CD is a bit disappointing. Brown/Tatum/Smart won't combine for 109 minutes every night (about 10 minutes more than last year) and Semi looked good, but I hope he's able to step up and get some time, even if it's just standing in the corner waiting for open shots for 12 minutes per game (especially before Romeo comes back).
He’s a rookie coming off a shortened preseason - I wouldn’t read much of anything into the fact he didn’t get playing time, particularly against a very good team like the Bucks.

Pritchard got a bit of playing time out of necessity and other than his one long three he looked totally lost, and obviously wouldn’t have played if Kemba were healthy.
 

Euclis20

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Nesmith needs to be able to play defense. He's okay on rotations but looked like he lost his guy a few times when there was traffic and when he was one-on-one. He did have that nice recovery block on Maxey but I think he was beat too often in pre-season to play him against MIL. I'm sure he'll get minutes against other teams.
Very true. On the flip side is Pritchard, who looked fine for his debut and could be of use this year. His problem is that if/when Kemba is healthy, there's no place for him in games that count. Kemba will get 30+ minutes, and Teague/Smart will be at the point for the remainder. Oh well.

Pritchard got a bit of playing time out of necessity and other than his one long three he looked totally lost, and obviously wouldn’t have played if Kemba were healthy.
I thought he looked ok for a rookie in his first regular season game. As you note, his role this year on a full strength Celtics team is on the bench.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Can someone tell me how Pritchard played last night?



Very next post....



:unsure:
Heh - I think he looked fine for a rookie AND totally lost, if that makes sense. He had one nice shot and made a good hustle play jumping on a loose ball, but never looked comfortable in the flow of the offense or really knew what to do when he had the ball.

My point was just that it’s not reasonable to expect a rookie to come into game #1 after a shortened preseason and meaningfully contribute, so the fact that Nesmith was a DNP shouldn’t really say anything about what he can contribute going forward.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Can someone tell me how Pritchard played last night?



Very next post....



:unsure:
On offense, he hit a catch and shoot 26' or 27' 3P shot for a positive but then had one possession where he took a bad, long 2P shot (bad only because he overdribbled into the shot).

On defense, he was pesky. I'll note that Divincenzo had some early open 3Ps and Pritchard I thought helped cool him down.

Basically, on the offensive side, he didn't do a lot but that's okay and on the defensive side he didn't make any brutal mistakes which is a plus. So grading on a rookie scale, he gets a "B" - which means that he's definitely playable and going to see minutes but he's not Jayson Tatum.

Does that make sense?

BTW, I think Romeo and Pritchard could be a really good defensive backcourt assuming they progress enough offensively to be able to play together.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I’d add on Pritchard that he was pretty good on the ball, less so off the ball. That distinction may have fueled the dichotomy others had in their assessments
 

Jimbodandy

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@lostjumper makes a good point above. That lineup may be useful against teams like Philly and LAL.

While I never was a Bledsoe fan, I think Jrue's status is little overrated. I'm fine with him launching 3s.
Regular-season Bucks are going to miss George Hill, always thought he brought a steady hand to their 2nd unit and ++ shooting. They should be happy they didn't lose Donte, he was one of their better players last night.
FWIW, I think that people are underrating the jump from Bledsoe to Jrue. Sure, Jrue is overrated, but Bledsoe is junk. Jrue can create a half decent shot for himself and others. Even Middleton, who's obviously miles ahead of him in value, has trouble creating shots against good defenders. It will make a difference come playoff time.
 

TripleOT

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I agree that Jrue is an upgrade over Bledsoe, but the Bucks’ bench is questionable. George Hill and his top of the league three point shooting will be missed. Their four top bench guys were very efficient. Three are gone, and the fourth, DiVincenzo, is starting
 

benhogan

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I agree that Jrue is an upgrade over Bledsoe, but the Bucks’ bench is questionable. George Hill and his top of the league three point shooting will be missed. Their four top bench guys were very efficient. Three are gone, and the fourth, DiVincenzo, is starting
The Heat wrote the playbook. Transition D and build a wall, Buck kryptonite.

I guess Jrue can create and feed Giannis/Middleton. BUT his pedestrian 3pt shooting along with the Bucks thin bench won't help the cause.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah, one of my takeaways from last night is that good teams aren’t going to be particularly scared of this Bucks team. It’s just too easy to load up on Giannis without consequence now. Maybe they make a move, but barring that I think they will have another 1 seed+disappointing exit.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I agree that Jrue is an upgrade over Bledsoe, but the Bucks’ bench is questionable. George Hill and his top of the league three point shooting will be missed. Their four top bench guys were very efficient. Three are gone, and the fourth, DiVincenzo, is starting
Maybe MIL's thin bench will force coach Bud to use Giannis more than 36 minutes in playoffs.

Interesting Torrey Craig got a DNP. Bud said it was because DJ Wilson was playing well. I would have thought MIL could have used his defense.
 

NoXInNixon

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Yeah, one of my takeaways from last night is that good teams aren’t going to be particularly scared of this Bucks team. It’s just too easy to load up on Giannis without consequence now. Maybe they make a move, but barring that I think they will have another 1 seed+disappointing exit.
I'm not even sure they'll be the #1 seed. Without depth, and given the short off-season and compressed schedule they're going to give away more games than the Nets will.
 

slamminsammya

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Yeah, one of my takeaways from last night is that good teams aren’t going to be particularly scared of this Bucks team. It’s just too easy to load up on Giannis without consequence now. Maybe they make a move, but barring that I think they will have another 1 seed+disappointing exit.
Yea, and it definitely seemed like the Celtics had the "book" on Giannis taking 4 charges, and all of them on plays where it seemed like they knew he was going to spin / eurostep in a given situation. He looked a bit scripted out there, maybe that is a function of it being so early and a lack of practice but it will be interesting to see if he can adjust his game in situations where good teams know what to expect.
 

lovegtm

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Yea, and it definitely seemed like the Celtics had the "book" on Giannis taking 4 charges, and all of them on plays where it seemed like they knew he was going to spin / eurostep in a given situation. He looked a bit scripted out there, maybe that is a function of it being so early and a lack of practice but it will be interesting to see if he can adjust his game in situations where good teams know what to expect.
I mean...this is who Giannis is. His shit doesn’t work as well in the playoffs for exactly this reason, and the loss of shooting is going to compound that.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Get it done Danny. I think tonight’s game made it pretty clear this team needs a truly elite scorer to be truly competitive in the East, and especially against the Nets who look like a monster.
 

ragnarok725

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I think it’s way too early to make sweeping statements like that. I also think Brown has looked better than Tatum in the first two games, and his trajectory of continued improvement could result in the team badly regretting trading him, even for Harden, within a couple years. His ceiling does not seem set in stone yet.
 

lovegtm

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Get it done Danny. I think tonight’s game made it pretty clear this team needs a truly elite scorer to be truly competitive in the East, and especially against the Nets who look like a monster.
They need to play some more games after a short restart and find their defensive identity. They will look like a fairly different team in a couple months.

Also, as noted, Brown is looking like their best player right now and is basically untradeable due to age/contract/upside, so I'm not sure whom you trade for that elite scorer.
 

Imbricus

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Why does this thread exist?
What I was looking for: a place to post higher-level commentary/analysis about the Celtics games, after each of the games, as opposed to the hot take, gamethread kind of comments ("Time Lord is garbage," "Time Lord rules!"). Having that kind of Celtics game-focused analytical thread in one place seems useful (it's easier too for a reader than having to chase comments across say six different player threads, and some people too will want to make comments that will be more team-oriented as opposed to individual player-oriented).

But I realized the original title just makes it sound like it's an extension of the game thread, so changed it. I'm open to suggestions on the title, thanks.
 

lovegtm

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What I was looking for: a place to post higher-level commentary/analysis about the Celtics games, after each of the games, as opposed to the hot take, gamethread kind of comments ("Time Lord is garbage," "Time Lord rules!"). Having that kind of Celtics game-focused analytical thread in one place seems useful (it's easier too for a reader than having to chase comments across say six different player threads, and some people too will want to make comments that will be more team-oriented as opposed to individual player-oriented).

But I realized the original title just makes it sound like it's an extension of the game thread, so changed it. I'm open to suggestions on the title, thanks.
Title seems solid now, although I'm sure someone will have a good witticism soon.

I feel weirdly ok after this last game. You can see the outlines of what the team can turn into, even though it's not a finished product yet.
 

Imbricus

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To me, last night's contest seemed like the classic game that it would be easy to overreact to: a blowout, in the second game of the season, at the hands of what should be one of the NBA's most improved teams this year. The Celts played pretty even with the Nets in the first half, and they weren't doing it with absurdly good shooting. But in the second half, there were stretches when Durant could not miss. The Nets shot 52% from three-point range on significant volume: anytime a team shoots that well, you'll be hard-pressed to come within 10 points of them.

So I think it'll be interesting to see how Brad adjusts for the next Nets game. Kyrie is good, but I think Durant is the much bigger problem, with his length. Another big problem I think is that the Nets have a few guys who can take the ball and slash inside quickly, and some of our defenders (Teague, Pritchard, G. Williams) just aren't that quick defensively. I'll be very interested to see how Romeo does against those quick Nets guards because he has the length and I think he's a better defender.
 

lovegtm

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To me, last night's contest seemed like the classic game that it would be easy to overreact to: a blowout, in the second game of the season, at the hands of what should be one of the NBA's most improved teams this year. The Celts played pretty even with the Nets in the first half, and they weren't doing it with absurdly good shooting. But in the second half, there were stretches when Durant could not miss. The Nets shot 52% from three-point range on significant volume: anytime a team shoots that well, you'll be hard-pressed to come within 10 points of them.

So I think it'll be interesting to see how Brad adjusts for the next Nets game. Kyrie is good, but I think Durant is the much bigger problem, with his length. Another big problem I think is that the Nets have a few guys who can take the ball and slash inside quickly, and some of our defenders (Teague, Pritchard, G. Williams) just aren't that quick defensively. I'll be very interested to see how Romeo does against those quick Nets guards because he has the length and I think he's a better defender.
They really need to work hard to match Brown up with Durant defensively and keep him there. He has always been able to compete with KD, even going back to the GSW days, just by being quick/physical/long.

I generally give coaches a lot of leeway experimenting with stuff in the regular season, so I'm not going to freak out about trying TT on KD. Just a failed experiment that should and will be mothballed.
 

Jimbodandy

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Title seems solid now, although I'm sure someone will have a good witticism soon.

I feel weirdly ok after this last game. You can see the outlines of what the team can turn into, even though it's not a finished product yet.
Yeah I feel the same way. Very short camp. We have to get our shit together still. Looking this bad early against a team loaded with good P&R players was unsurprising. Would like to see CBS spend some extra time on transition defense soon.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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CelticsBlog suggested that given the foul calls on TT and TheIs when they were trying to sell the interior, the league is changing the way they are calling those plays. Something to look for. Both those seals otherwise looked clean to me. Those calls - plus the Brad T - were five points too.
 

lovegtm

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CelticsBlog suggested that given the foul calls on TT and TheIs when they were trying to sell the interior, the league is changing the way they are calling those plays. Something to look for. Both those seals otherwise looked clean to me. Those calls - plus the Brad T - were five points too.
Yeah, looked like an undeclared point of emphasis. Good times.
 

lexrageorge

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CelticsBlog suggested that given the foul calls on TT and TheIs when they were trying to sell the interior, the league is changing the way they are calling those plays. Something to look for. Both those seals otherwise looked clean to me. Those calls - plus the Brad T - were five points too.
Gotta love it when they try to solve problems that don't exist. Unless, of course, the problem is that the league feels that the game flows too smoothly when there is a dearth of stoppages for foul calls.
 

lovegtm

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Gotta love it when they try to solve problems that don't exist. Unless, of course, the problem is that the league feels that the game flows too smoothly when there is a dearth of stoppages for foul calls.
“Adam, a team is gaining an offensive advantage in a way that utilizes a non top-5 player! Whatever shall we do?”

“Release the hounds.”
 

HowBoutDemSox

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CelticsBlog suggested that given the foul calls on TT and TheIs when they were trying to sell the interior, the league is changing the way they are calling those plays. Something to look for. Both those seals otherwise looked clean to me. Those calls - plus the Brad T - were five points too.
I guess we'll see going forward whether this is a league-wide point of emphasis, or just one of those "opposing team sends videos to the league office of what it thinks the other team is doing that they don't get called for" things. There were a number of seals by the Celtics in the Bucks game on opening night that weren't called, I think Grant had a great one for instance.

More fundamentally, my understanding was that the seal was legal so long as the offensive player beats the defender to the spot and is merely holding their ground, like in a post up or boxing out situation. Is that wrong, and there is actually a penalty being committed by a player sealing a defender when the sealing player has position? In order for it to be a point of emphasis, the act would actually need to be against the rules in the first place.
 

lexrageorge

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I guess we'll see going forward whether this is a league-wide point of emphasis, or just one of those "opposing team sends videos to the league office of what it thinks the other team is doing that they don't get called for" things. There were a number of seals by the Celtics in the Bucks game on opening night that weren't called, I think Grant had a great one for instance.

More fundamentally, my understanding was that the seal was legal so long as the offensive player beats the defender to the spot and is merely holding their ground, like in a post up or boxing out situation. Is that wrong, and there is actually a penalty being committed by a player sealing a defender when the sealing player has position? In order for it to be a point of emphasis, the act would actually need to be against the rules in the first place.
The seals could have simply been bad calls by the officials, although it seems as if a couple of sources of putting it out there that this is a new "point of emphasis". In any event, do fans really want to see more ticky-tack off-ball offensive fouls get called?
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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The seals could have simply been bad calls by the officials, although it seems as if a couple of sources of putting it out there that this is a new "point of emphasis". In any event, do fans really want to see more ticky-tack off-ball offensive fouls get called?
I'm going to go with, "no."

Once Smart got 4 fouls early in the 3rd, and we knew Pritchard was going to get significant minutes, there wasn't much to be done. If Kemba comes back, totally different team.

The lineups where it's basically, "Tatum, go score," are going to be a struggle unless Teague can be a true sixth man, volume scorer on a regular basis.
 

DannyDarwinism

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They really need to work hard to match Brown up with Durant defensively and keep him there. He has always been able to compete with KD, even going back to the GSW days, just by being quick/physical/long.

I generally give coaches a lot of leeway experimenting with stuff in the regular season, so I'm not going to freak out about trying TT on KD. Just a failed experiment that should and will be mothballed.
Yeah, as long as he learns from it. Smaller, quicker defenders who can stay with KD and get under his airspace have typically been more successful than TT types, who he can shake too easily. Tony Allen was the prime example- of course he’s an all-time level defender, but Jaylen fits the bill about as well as anyone playing today (though I do want to see how Toronto fares with Anunoby on KD and Lowry/FVV on Kyrie). It was worth testing out to see if post- Achilles KD still has the burst, but I want to see Jaylen and Marcus against him in the next matchup.

I don’t really have any takeaways from this game, except that KD and Kyrie are still elite shot makers. We need a healthy Kemba to be an elite team, but that was true before this game. Kyrie’s actually one of the few guys that Kemba is well-suited (relatively) to defend. He’s got the quicks and savvy to stay with him, and Kyrie chasing him around on the other end can help to neutralize him.
 

chilidawg

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The lineups where it's basically, "Tatum, go score," are going to be a struggle unless Teague can be a true sixth man, volume scorer on a regular basis.
The Tatum/bench mob lineup was pretty successful in the 2nd quarter. Teague didn't score but did a good job creating turnovers from Levert, although he got burned off the dribble a couple times too. Ojeleye being a competent offensive player sure helps the bench depth.

With TL out the real problem with starting Theis and TT is that we end up with too many GW at the 5 minutes. Better imo to start Grant and keep one of Theis/TT on the floor with the bench unit.
 

Cesar Crespo

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2 Game sample size warning

Theis
4.0 3PA/G
1.5 2PA/G

Career:
1.2 3PA/G
3.6 2PA/G

I also think this team desperately needs more size. I don't even think that size has to be all that talented. There's no reason to have both Edwards and Waters on this team, especially when there is already PP, Teague and Kemba. Move on from Edwards and get a big body. If one of Theis, TT or TL can't suit up, it's a killer. I wonder if Jaxson Hayes or Moritz Wagner are available at all.
 

BaseballJones

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Kyrie is just one of those guys.... you don’t really love having him on your team because he’s so bizarre and he kind of sucks the life out of your other guys.... but you don’t love playing against him either because he can absolutely destroy you when he’s on.
 

Imbricus

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Move on from Edwards and get a big body.
I could easily get on board with this. Edwards heaved another three-point shot last night (miss, and not that close). Is there a nimble defense-first seven-footer out there looking for a home?
 

Cesar Crespo

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Kyrie is just one of those guys.... you don’t really love having him on your team because he’s so bizarre and he kind of sucks the life out of your other guys.... but you don’t love playing against him either because he can absolutely destroy you when he’s on.
I just don't think he really enjoys being "the guy." If Durant stays healthy all year, I think Kyrie is a good soldier.

Kyrie's game seems to elevate to another entirely different level when he's playing with someone better than he is. I know most players get better when surrounded by better players but Kyrie seems extreme to me.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I could easily get on board with this. Edwards heaved another three-point shot last night (miss, and not that close). Is there a nimble defense-first seven-footer out there looking for a home?
He literally offers nothing of value to the team if his one trick isn't working, and it's not working. Even if his shooting did translate, he'd have to be an elite shooter at elite volume to offer much value since he's always going to be a negative on defense and brings nothing else. I'm not even sure how any player under 6ft tall makes it to the NBA with such little playmaking skills. I've hated the guy the moment he stepped on the court in an actual NBA game. He looks so out of place out there.

Not really high on Waters either but he's actually a decent playmaker and the C's need playmaking. I think the only thing Edwards has on Waters is range (not accuracy). I'm not sure how useful that range is given the rest of his game. I wouldn't even mind Waters getting a little more burn until Kemba is back. He's probably the best playmaker on the team atm.

Green can play defense. Tacko is tall. Edwards is a zero.