And on this farm he had some prospects B-L-O-O-M
- Thread starter grimshaw
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Maybe it's just that the players, like many of us, are disappointed and frustrated with the way things have gone this season, so personal feelings about friends in the clubhouse are outweighing normal thoughts of rationality and professionalism, especially at a point in the year where the team is playing out the string.
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Thanks guys!! Gosh, imagine what could have been accomplished if only these teams had a Jonny Gomes to rally the troops into battle.
You never know what tidbits of information you may discover on SOSH. I find that I went to school with Steve Renko at the University of Kansas who was one of the originators of the classic "25- cab" quip.
NY has what seems like a similar situation with Marwin Gonzalez, who has been bad all season and whose role has been largely superseded by Oswaldo Cabrera, but who is still on the roster because of clubhouse reasons (they kept Luis Cessa on the team much longer than they should have for similar reasons).
There are only so many roster spots, and teams really don't need three active catchers, but I agree that the poor communication here (Eovaldi not knowing before going home for the night) and the presence of Abraham Almonte make the criticism legit.
There are only so many roster spots, and teams really don't need three active catchers, but I agree that the poor communication here (Eovaldi not knowing before going home for the night) and the presence of Abraham Almonte make the criticism legit.
I have no doubt Plawecki is a popular guy in the clubhouse. He originated the cart ride HR celebration. He's clearly a glue guy even as a part-time player. But even those guys reach the end of the line where the front office can't justify keeping him around just for the good vibes.
One thing that just occurred to me that we might be overlooking is how much this move was a product of the change to September rosters. This is year 2 of the 28-man September roster instead of a full 40-man September roster, but it's the first one that a lot of the players are experiencing while being out of contention for the post-season. In years past, when teams were playing out the string and giving young players auditions, they could just push a vet like Plawecki to the end of the bench and let him ride out the last couple weeks as #36 on the depth chart. No such luxury anymore, hence the more "heartless" DFA that none of the veterans have seen before.
It tells you what a bad year it has been when we are discussing whether a guy who should never have been on the roster should be cut with 2 weeks left. Pwalecki is a no hit and if you are going to have a no hit catcher they should at least have some ability on defense. His teammates should be telling him how lucky he was to be on the roster this long.
By my count, there are 14 players on the current roster who weren’t there when the season started; so I’m sure the amount of change is jarring to some who have been here a while.
That's not the point, but I think you know it. They could have not missed bases and known fundamentals. And not coddled Duran. Leadership matters
This. Plawecki is bad. but people like him. If they wanted to cut him 4 weeks ago to make room for a young guy to get a chance, that would make plenty of sense. I dont see why you axe him now to keep Almonte who is a 33 year old player who everyone knows is bad and has no prior connection to the team. Might as well just keep the team happy if you arent going to use roster spots on people who might have a future.
I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. You have no idea what the players did and didn't do with Duran. And if anybody should get blamed for "coddling" Duran, might it be Cora for continuing to write his name in the lineup after his gaffes? Or the front office for letting him do it?
And missed bases have cost us the ten games in the standings we would need to be in the wild card hunt right now?
Lots of symptoms of missing leadership. Injuries wounded this team. Lack of leadership killed any chance of overcoming that.
I'll add to this that if Eovaldi ends up back in Boston next season I see no detriment to him getting a couple of starts and with one of his future battery mates.
It's a moot point as far as this season goes, but clubhouse chemistry shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. Compare the 1978 and 2004 Red Sox. That "78 team was stacked, but they were the epitome of 25 guys 25 cabs. As long as things were going good they were all right, but when the going got tough they fell apart. I remember reading a quote from Frank Duffy in Peter Gammons book "Beyond The Sixth Game" about the '78 collapse. Duffy has a BS from Stanford in psychology, and he said something to the effect that since they were really just a bunch of individuals, they didn't have the ability to come together as a group and support each other to pull through the tough times, and in the end that was a contributing factor to the collapse. Contrast that to the '04 Red Sox. I've seen quotes and interviews in multiple places about how they did almost everything as a team. If a group went out to dinner, at least 20 guys would come. I saw an interview with Johnny Damon where he said that if anyone, whoever he was, spoke, everyone would listen. There really weren't any cliques on that team. And when they had their backs against the wall, Kevin Millar got them all to do a shot of JD before the game and they loosened right up and came through. They had each other's backs, and they came together as a group when it mattered the most. I hope that Bloom and Henry factor the intangible effect of personalities and chemistry into their analytical equations.
Say's who? Also in the course of re-signing Hernandez he was assured that the club was serious about winning next year. I'm guessing that's pretty much SOP when courting any player.
Negotiations for a contract for 2023 and beyond will be hurt because they cut a catcher he likes who.... had 0 chance to be on the roster in 2023?
Here's the WEEI article with the quotes people were discussing here, wanted to read it for myself: https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/the-problem-with-the-kevin-plawecki-decision
Especially after the Pham move, I can't disagree with "I don't think Bloom takes clubhouse chemistry or character into consideration when he makes his moves, just the numbers.", which I was really hoping he'd adapt to a bit more in Boston
Especially after the Pham move, I can't disagree with "I don't think Bloom takes clubhouse chemistry or character into consideration when he makes his moves, just the numbers.", which I was really hoping he'd adapt to a bit more in Boston
It's apparently easy to forget that the previous two seasons, Plawecki OPS'd .857 and .737. Sure, he fell off a cliff this year, but "never should have been on the roster" seems like a pretty spicy take given his past performance.
He did but his Babip was ridiculous that first year. He was brutal throwing out runners last year and I don’t believe his offense was worth it.
Well the good news is that the Red Sox have a bunch of young core guys under contract to help navigate this if it becomes a problem.
Nah. Its the veterans who are acting like children. And i agree with SoxScout. This is the same group of players who Bloom largely stood by at the trade deadline because he believed in them (and playoff chances at the time). They complained then that the FO did not make any “big moves” (which may have also involved trading more players on the 25 roster than they did at the deadline) and are complaining now that underperforming players in a walk year are being released. These are vets. They have been down this road before be it with the Sox or another team. Players are traded and released. This is nothing new yet they are making a big deal out of something they shouldn’t.
And if they really are mad, they need to look in the mirror and blame themselves. Some of the players still on the roster are being paid the big bucks and have had a terrible season. JDM for example.
View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1571643386133618688?s=46&t=7Fv7sIvlSu6pGZW6TeVURQ
There's going to be massive roster turnover next season, so it's pretty irrelevant if the current clubhouse is upset that they just released their backup catcher
I get that, but who are they bringing up? Who are they bringing in? On the cheap, right? Cause this team doesn't pay for stars anymore.
Seems like there's a reputation thing happening here.
Why do you think they don't pay for stars? They paid for 4-6 stars this season, depending on how you define star and if Devers counts since he was still pretty cheap as an arb guy.
I'm not saying that exactly. What I'm saying is that the players are thinking that the Red Sox don't pay their stars. It's kinda obvious that this is how they feel.
Let's see how they sign Devers and Bogaerts.
I don't think it's so obvious (I think it's just fan/media projection) but if they do feel that way, boo hoo. I have a hard time generating empathy for players making 8 figure salaries thinking the Sox don't pay their stars. Trevor Story didn't take a discount to come here. Kike just signed an extension, so apparently they're paying him enough.
I suspect the song thing was just them throwing back to last year (when the song was their regular celebration song) and paying tribute to their friend who was no longer in the clubhouse. The media is making something of it that probably isn't there, which is their specialty.
It’s quite possible that Plawecki has played his last Major League Baseball game. If the players wanted to make a nice gesture for him, playing his song was not the worst way to do it.
Think we are reading too much into it. As stated above they probably knew there is a good chance its his last game. He is not a very good baseball player.They will know that, but hs is a popular guy and wanted to give him a good send off
Cora said the other day that JD will play one game in LF before the season ends. Seems to be a kind of sendoff for that player
I was thinking this too when I made my "Plawecki got released because he sucks" post but then saw Sandy Leon played in 83 games last year and 31 this year. I think some shitty team may give Plawecki another shot if he is interested.
I’m sorry, is this a daytime soap or something? Do we have to manufacture a new crisis where everyone rushes to defend some “insulted” player as implied by the Boston media? Why is there suddenly a binary of Almonte, a fourth outfielder (who has been raking, FWIW) and Plawecki, a backup catcher who can’t play defense? Do we have evidence Pham’s Red Sox teammates have a problem with him or is his existence just more grist for the mill? How long should everyone in the media suspend their knowledge of the new 28-man roster rules, and the common sense practice of giving Wong and McGuire some run, just so they can perform a new grievance against Chaim Bloom?
This is dumb as hell.
Agreed in full.
Well, despite his history, they apparently let him into the team fantasy football league, so doesn't seem like they have a problem with him....yet.
View: https://twitter.com/bradfo/status/1571610536982224897
Yep ... and at some point they'll send out a defensive replacement, and give JDM the chance for an ovation
I am not advocating for Plawecki to have kept his job, being on a Major League roster is not a guarantee for anyone--as Joe Morgan said, "Baseball is only fun when you're good at it." And in a vacuum, dumping Plawecki so that the Red Sox can take a look at a minor leaguer makes all of the sense in the world.
Having said that, a Major League clubhouse does not exist in a vacuum, it's populated by real people who have real workplace relationships who show real emotions when their friend is unceremoniously axed with two weeks and change left of the season. Like others have said, the correct time to release Plawecki was three weeks ago and that's because he'd probably get a chance to catch on with another club. By releasing him now, he could catch on with a non-contender (doubtful) but even if lands on a contending team, he won't be eligible for the playoffs.
For a team stacked with veterans, that's a bad look from the front office. Based on quotes that have run here-and-there, I don't think that the players are particularly fond of Bloom and the way he does business. When you don't treat employees the right way, it does start to affect morale and how people do their business. You can say, "LOL Boo hoo, go dry your tears on your millions of dollars" but that's completely missing the point. Whether you're paid minimum wage or a Major League salary, a person wants to feel more than just a number. It's human nature. We've all had instances in our work life when a popular teammate was let go and maybe we've acted the way that Eovladi has. It's simple frustration and for it to boil over like that, I think it points to a larger issue.
Getting rid of Plawecki was not a mistake. Getting rid of Plawecki now probably was. It's not a huge mistake for Bloom, but as a person who's had this job for three years and has been in the front office of a Major League team for more than ten years, I have to wonder when these mistakes are going to end? If he doesn't understand that the veteran-heavy roster of the Red Sox (many of whom won a World Series pre-Bloom and were pretty successful) is different than the mostly-younger, mostly-happy-to-be-here Rays; I don't know when he is.
Having said that, a Major League clubhouse does not exist in a vacuum, it's populated by real people who have real workplace relationships who show real emotions when their friend is unceremoniously axed with two weeks and change left of the season. Like others have said, the correct time to release Plawecki was three weeks ago and that's because he'd probably get a chance to catch on with another club. By releasing him now, he could catch on with a non-contender (doubtful) but even if lands on a contending team, he won't be eligible for the playoffs.
For a team stacked with veterans, that's a bad look from the front office. Based on quotes that have run here-and-there, I don't think that the players are particularly fond of Bloom and the way he does business. When you don't treat employees the right way, it does start to affect morale and how people do their business. You can say, "LOL Boo hoo, go dry your tears on your millions of dollars" but that's completely missing the point. Whether you're paid minimum wage or a Major League salary, a person wants to feel more than just a number. It's human nature. We've all had instances in our work life when a popular teammate was let go and maybe we've acted the way that Eovladi has. It's simple frustration and for it to boil over like that, I think it points to a larger issue.
Getting rid of Plawecki was not a mistake. Getting rid of Plawecki now probably was. It's not a huge mistake for Bloom, but as a person who's had this job for three years and has been in the front office of a Major League team for more than ten years, I have to wonder when these mistakes are going to end? If he doesn't understand that the veteran-heavy roster of the Red Sox (many of whom won a World Series pre-Bloom and were pretty successful) is different than the mostly-younger, mostly-happy-to-be-here Rays; I don't know when he is.
This is well argued but I still think the reaction is overblown. Releasing Plawecki today may be a “mistake” if we gauge public reaction, but so too would have been cutting him in late August while the team a) was breaking in a brand new catcher in McGuire and b) arguably still had a chance to make a run.
If there’s simply no way for Bloom to avoid making mistakes, according to media narratives, then I think the real problem is elsewhere.
The Sox are diligently playing J.D. Martinez every day for no real purpose, which is the correct move, so it’s not like they’re oblivious to treating veteran players with respect even if it comes as slight opportunity cost to the team.
Bloom’s moves haven’t been perfect, of course but each has been defensible. I think the story is that the media is not particularly fond of him — or they’ve recognized that fan antagonism toward him plays really well. Many of these feature writers and sports radio personalities have pushed to find uncharitable narratives that confirm their various biases (that he’s “cheap,” “treats people like numbers,” etc.). It’s reactionary, it’s exhausting and it sucks.
For example, there was tremendous amount of whining about Bloom’s supposedly cavalier dismissal of beloved veteran Christian Vazquez and its deleterious effects on team morale. But almost no one has written about how we look to have acquired a potential plus starting catcher of the future for a bullpen arm with an underwater contract that any of us would have DFA’d.
Going to play Devil's Advocate here, but doesn't DFA'ing Plawecki now at least give him a chance to say good-bye to the clubhouse?
He doesn't really get that chance dropping him in the off-season.
He doesn't really get that chance dropping him in the off-season.
I don’t think it matters what the fans or media think of Bloom, but what about the players and coaches? Has Cora bought into Bloom’s plan? I think that kind of remains to be seen - a manager who was on the same page as his GM / Head of Baseball Ops would seemingly have his team better prepared for such decisions, or ideally, have them reacting more appropriately. The teams reaction to some relatively benign moves makes me question leadership, frankly I don’t think any of this really reflects well on Cora.
Why would playoff teams have wanted a backup catcher who can't throw and was opsing .500?
nah, this is 100000% on the veteran Players, they are acting like kids, this how all sports happen, players get cut/traded, etc.
As stats says