Angels fire Joe Maddon
- Thread starter worm0082
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Yikes. I know that he's not super popular around here, but I like Joe Maddon. He seems like an interesting guy who knows how to live life.
And also you're getting old when you remember Phil Nevin as THE phenom that was going to bring the Astros to the World Series.
And also you're getting old when you remember Phil Nevin as THE phenom that was going to bring the Astros to the World Series.
He deserved it, but I'm still surprised someone finally did tell him his shit does, in fact, stink.
I sure hope there is an as of yet unreported player mutiny, because….Nevin? How is this an improvement?
Wow! From the penthouse to the outhouse in a matter of a few weeks...
Getting swept by the Phillies had to have been the cherry on the crapcake for Maddon.
Getting swept by the Phillies had to have been the cherry on the crapcake for Maddon.
Lots of people arpound here thought he would make a good manager (or even a great manager) when he was one of the finalists for the job in 2004.
He did a pretty good job in Tampa Bay, considering. And he did an OK job in Chicago (I think he actually did his darndest to lose Game 7 and several other games in 2016 but I digress).
The Angels have a much better team than their record indicates and all his "smart" moves certainly do not work.
Arte Moreno should be drawn and quartered for wasting a generational baseball talent in Mike Trout. But that's another story.
Cannot wait to see him as an analyst. Narrator: He's lying.
He did a pretty good job in Tampa Bay, considering. And he did an OK job in Chicago (I think he actually did his darndest to lose Game 7 and several other games in 2016 but I digress).
The Angels have a much better team than their record indicates and all his "smart" moves certainly do not work.
Arte Moreno should be drawn and quartered for wasting a generational baseball talent in Mike Trout. But that's another story.
Cannot wait to see him as an analyst. Narrator: He's lying.
Tito managed rings around him in WS 2016. It was almost, but not quite, enough to overcome a colossal talent differential (pythagorean wins were 107 for Chicago to 91 for Cleveland).
Managing isn't everything, particularly in-game managing, and we often overlook the strategic aspects of it: roster rotation and health management, people- and morale-management (including clearly communicating consistent roles and expectations), communications with the press but also to front office and other internal groups, making good hiring and empowerment decisions. It's not often that in-game management is the difference between winning and losing, or a good vs bad season. But man, when managing makes the difference at the margins, you REALLY feel it.
Of course I'm biased, but I think the Angels could do much worse than hire Girardi. I think he could do well with that team.
Not so much for Philly with Maddon, but I would be greatly amused.
Not so much for Philly with Maddon, but I would be greatly amused.
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The colossal talent difference was that half of Cleveland's pitching staff was injured and the other half overworked. The Indians would have won with ease if they could have had one start from Carrasco, Salazar or a fully healthy Bauer. Francona was making some bold pitching moves out of necessity and Maddon was so jealous that he was being outmaneuvered and overlooked that he did his best to wreck a perfectly fine Cubs pitching staff. Cleveland had a couple of opportunities where they came up a hit short against a gassed Aroldis Chapman. It was the biggest case of over-managing we'll ever see and he still got away with it and thought they won because of it.
I was at the game last night about 8 rows behind home plate, and when he came out to argue in like the 4th or 5th inning, I yelled "Enjoy the argument Joe, this is your last homestand!".
I take great delight in his firing. I've always thought he was a giant DB.
I take great delight in his firing. I've always thought he was a giant DB.
Wait. Is he saying he felt stifled by the analytics coming out of the <checks notes> Angels front office?
Ohhhkay.
It could just be that he wanted to manage his way and the Angels' front office wanted him to manage a different way.
I think the whole quote is worth sharing
It's also funny to me that Girardi was known for his binder with the Yankees and also fought the front office on the way out about the direction they wanted the games managed. Both him and Maddon, huge reputations for how analytical they are, essentially losing jobs over reluctance to further implement analytics.
This reads to me like a huge confirmation regarding what fans think about in-game decision making. The FO is running shit. Not that Maddon is a reliable narrator here, but I find this interesting coming from him.
It's also funny to me that Girardi was known for his binder with the Yankees and also fought the front office on the way out about the direction they wanted the games managed. Both him and Maddon, huge reputations for how analytical they are, essentially losing jobs over reluctance to further implement analytics.
Also, I am not especially anti-Maddon, but this back and forth to end that piece is amazing.
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...I’m just excited about my next opportunity.
You want to manage?
Of course. Of course I want to manage. I’m really good at it.
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...I’m just excited about my next opportunity.
You want to manage?
Of course. Of course I want to manage. I’m really good at it.
In-season managerial changes are sometimes necessary but aren’t a hallmark of a well-run organization.
Long losing streaks put pressure on everyone involved. Perhaps there was an emergent issue in the Angels’ clubhouse that Maddon’s abrupt removal is meant to address. Otherwise, the arguments for firing him now are also arguments that the Angels should’ve moved on during the offseason.
Dusty Baker is still managing, so maybe Maddon will get another shot, but I’m guessing he won’t.
Long losing streaks put pressure on everyone involved. Perhaps there was an emergent issue in the Angels’ clubhouse that Maddon’s abrupt removal is meant to address. Otherwise, the arguments for firing him now are also arguments that the Angels should’ve moved on during the offseason.
Dusty Baker is still managing, so maybe Maddon will get another shot, but I’m guessing he won’t.
Why wouldn’t Maddon get another shot? While I personally think he’s overrated and am glad he’s not managing the Red Sox, he’s exactly the kind of former WS winning retread manager that gets multiple bites at the apple.
Yeah, with Dusty and LaRussa still managing in their 70s, I have no doubt the 68 year old Maddon will get at least one more job. Maybe to replace one of the young first time managers leading his team nowhere, like the Reds or Pirates or Rangers.
Intentionally walking a guy with the bases loaded in the 4th inning and 1 out may have been one of the dumbest moves I have seen a manager make. My guess is he was determined to do it once in his managerial career after Bonds was walked with the bases loaded (Bonds decision made sense though - 2 run game w/ 2 outs in the 9th). Maddon has spent his career overmanaging the shit out of every situation so he could show everyone how smart and unconventional he is. I am sure he will get another job because thats how it works, but he sucks.
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Back in 2008 he did it to peak-powers Hamilton (2 outs in 9th at least). I don't doubt though he felt like doing it again for the reasons you stated.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2lpG0lDkmo
This might be the funniest thing to happen all year if it is true:
View: https://twitter.com/D1SCHER/status/1536117303753834501
View: https://twitter.com/D1SCHER/status/1536117303753834501