Anthony Davis: No Loyalty

BigSoxFan

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As much as I hate to say it, if it's all of the Lakers young players, picks and salary relief it's not that bad of an offer. Maybe Boston offers something better this summer but it's probably in New Orleans' best interest to end this before the trade deadline. It's not an ideal situation to let linger over a franchise for many more months.
Why? This organization is going into a full rebuild mode. Who cares if there is a distraction for a few months when there is a non-zero chance you can get Zion (Knicks) or Tatum?

The Lakers’ offer is still mediocre. Their assets just aren’t that good.
 

Morning Woodhead

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According to AD and Klutch:

What the Celtics did to IT disqualifies them.
What the Clippers did to Griffin lands them in the final 4.

Got it.
 

lovegtm

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Especially given the LBJ tweet last night.
If Bledsoe got fined for the "I don't wanna be here" tweet, LBJ should be fined 10x for this blatant tampering through the media. I know it won't happen, but it makes rooting for a career-ending injury much easier.
 

CreedBratton

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The Clips are also on AD's list. Now that would be interesting. Harris, SGA and another prospect or two (plus a couple of first rounders) arguably matches a Lakers offer, but maybe I'm higher on SGA than others.
I’m high on SGA too but Harris is a free agent so don’t think pelicans would like that.
 

lovegtm

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One thing I don't get: just because LA is adding more of their roster why does it make it a better package? Isn't it just adding shit onto an existing but smaller pile of shit?
If they're willing to add all of their young guys and do the "multiple picks" unprotected, that's materially better. I don't like Lonzo and Ingram, but the chance they become All-Stars is non-zero, so getting both is much better than one. And if LBJ gets hurt/declines, the Lakers are stuck with no picks to deal for help, and not tons of ways to make the team around AD good, in which case those could quickly become Nets picks.

It's a lot higher risk than a Tatum+Rozier+MEM package (for example), but it has potential massive reward, even if the odds of that reward are around 10-20%. I wouldn't do it, but it wouldn't shock me if Demps did.
 

Big John

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One thing I don't get: just because LA is adding more of their roster why does it make it a better package? Isn't it just adding shit onto an existing but smaller pile of shit?
The Lakers are probably taking back more shit, e.g. Solomon Hill, E'Twaun Moore.
 

lovegtm

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The Lakers are probably taking back more shit, e.g. Solomon Hill, E'Twaun Moore.
Prioritizing getting rid of contracts in a rebuild is criminal, but hey, it's Dell Demps.

People forget that one way Ainge screwed the Nets so hard is that he was willing to take on Gerald Wallace.
 

Captaincoop

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If Bledsoe got fined for the "I don't wanna be here" tweet, LBJ should be fined 10x for this blatant tampering through the media. I know it won't happen, but it makes rooting for a career-ending injury much easier.
It was already a bit of a joy. Not sure it can get easier.
 

RedOctober3829

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If they're willing to add all of their young guys and do the "multiple picks" unprotected, that's materially better. I don't like Lonzo and Ingram, but the chance they become All-Stars is non-zero, so getting both is much better than one. And if LBJ gets hurt/declines, the Lakers are stuck with no picks to deal for help, and not tons of ways to make the team around AD good, in which case those could quickly become Nets picks.

It's a lot higher risk than a Tatum+Rozier+MEM package (for example), but it has potential massive reward, even if the odds of that reward are around 10-20%. I wouldn't do it, but it wouldn't shock me if Demps did.
The odds are low that any Laker picks are not going to be that good as you said so why do it? The Kings and Grizzlies picks are both going to be better than any Laker picks they can give. Tatum is better than any player LA can give. It just makes no sense. But it feels like Demps is going to crumble under the fake pressure Klutch is putting on him.
 

cheech13

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One thing I don't get: just because LA is adding more of their roster why does it make it a better package? Isn't it just adding shit onto an existing but smaller pile of shit?
Normally I'd say adding more doesn't improve the deal but the Lakers do have a fair number of interesting young talents on cheap deals in Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, Hart and Zubac. That group is missing the A-level talent like Tatum, but it's rich in rotation guys and there's a chance Ball or Ingram develops into an All-Star (not a fan of either, but they do have their supporters around the league). You could probably even flip one or two of these guys into other interesting assets as well.
 

Big John

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Hill and Moore have two years remaining. Guys like KCP, Rondo, Stephenson and Beasley are expiring.

My guess is that Demps wants to start with a relatively clean slate: Jrue, Randle, the Lakers youngsters and cap space.
 

cheech13

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Hill and Moore have two years remaining. Guys like KCP, Rondo, Stephenson and Beasley are expiring.

My guess is that Demps wants to start with a relatively clean slate: Jrue, Randle, the Lakers youngsters and cap space.
Randle is a free agent this summer and they won't have his Bird Rights. Bringing him back is going to be almost impossible.
 

DJnVa

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The Lakers have offered a new package to New Orleans that includes multiple young players, multiple draft picks and Pelicans salary cap relief for Anthony Davis, league sources tell ESPN. The offer appears to move closer to the objectives that the Pelicans are pursuing in a deal.
That's a BS line that simply means they increased the offer after the Pelicans laughed at the first one.


And he'd resign in Milwaukee but not Boston? Okay. This is all about getting out of town now. If deal doesn't happen before deadline, it all depends on Kyrie signing.
 

amfox1

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The following works under the ESPN trade machine:

LA gets: Davis, Hill
NO gets: Rondo (FA), Beasley (FA), Ball, Kuzma, Ingram, Hart, Zubac (RFA) and two 1st round picks
 

DJnVa

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The following works under the ESPN trade machine:

LA gets: Davis, Hill
NO gets: Rondo (FA), Beasley (FA), Ball, Kuzma, Ingram, Hart, Zubac (RFA) and two 1st round picks
Who the hell fills out the Lakers roster if they lose a net of 5 players?
 

Big John

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Randle is a free agent this summer and they won't have his Bird Rights. Bringing him back is going to be almost impossible.
Yes, player option for $9M that he can decline. But if he doesn't resign, it's not the end of the world. He's not worth more than the MLE anyway.
 

lovegtm

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The odds are low that any Laker picks are not going to be that good as you said so why do it? The Kings and Grizzlies picks are both going to be better than any Laker picks they can give. Tatum is better than any player LA can give. It just makes no sense. But it feels like Demps is going to crumble under the fake pressure Klutch is putting on him.
Agree that MEM+SAC (if MEM doesn't convey this year) has a higher expected value, with higher upside value too. Just saying what Demps' rationalization might be, particularly since the Lakers' failure scenarios are heavily correlated.
 

ElUno20

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I feel like this added group of teams to the list is PR spin to not make it look so bad when he's carrying lebron's wine glass to the game
 

RedOctober3829

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Among New Orleans' priorities in an Anthony Davis deal - young players/picks/cap relief - Pels are determined to get back one player w/ All-NBA potential. Do Pels see that in Ingram, Kuzma or Ball? Boston's Jayson Tatum fits mold. Can Pels pry Tatum? All internal Pels questions.

Celtics can give them all of that. Would Danny take either Hill or Randle back? They couldn't do Jrue without swapping Hayward I believe.

The list doesn't include the Boston Celtics, league sources said. The Celtics are unable to trade for Davis until July 1 as long as Kyrie Irving is on the team's roster. Nevertheless, the Celtics remain determined to acquire Davis after the season and have encouraged the Pelicans to wait until the offseason to engage them on a deal, league sources said.

There appears to be an effort on the part of Davis and his agent, Rich Paul of Klutch Sports, to facilitate a deal prior to Thursday's trade deadline, and spare a prolonged stay into the offseason for Davis with the franchise. Davis, who requested a trade a week ago, can't become a free agent until July of 2020.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25924855/los-angeles-lakers-offered-improved-anthony-davis-package-new-orleans-pelicans
 

PedroKsBambino

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According to AD and Klutch:

What the Celtics did to IT disqualifies them.
What the Clippers did to Griffin lands them in the final 4.

Got it.
I have to think that the Klutch rumors are designed to pressure NOLA to do a deal now, and are likely paired with Lakers saying "we expect to go in a different direction at deadline so this won't be available in July"

if NOLA is smart they'll ignore both messages. Unfortunately, NOLA is not very smart, so....
 

amfox1

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So, basically, the difference right now is whether Hart and Zubac are included in the deal and/or whether NO can offload more contracts (Moore) to LAL.

I assume NO would try to flip Lonzo immediately to PHX or ORL.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Hey Nola. You’re not competing now. You’re not competing tomorrow. You won’t ever compete in the future.

You want Rondo, too? How about Hart?

The NBA is a joke.
 

PedroKsBambino

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There's no chance the Lakers walk from the above deal over Zubac or Hart, imo.

If Ingram/Ball/Kuzma and two picks are all on the table than those guys must be too, it's just a question of whether it's enough for NOLA.

Can they send more salary back cap-wise (e.g. do Lakers have right pieces to also take Moore?)
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Its painfully obvious that the Pelicans can get a better package if they sit tight until the offseason. What is entirely unclear is how much pressure Demps is under to get something done. If he needs to deal now, he should be pinging Ujiri or Karnisovas or some other team that can beat the Lakers offer.

And to be clear, the Lakers offer, as reported. isn't horrible. However it does nothing to fetch some sort of star potential in return for a top ten player. Demps seems like he needs a win here to have even a tiny shot at saving his job. And that likely won't be enough.
 

Ed Hillel

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When you make the reasonable assumption that Ball is going to force his way out of town, the deal becomes pretty horrible. Not that I think he’s anything special, but he does still have some value.
 

cheech13

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So, basically, the difference right now is whether Hart and Zubac are included in the deal and/or whether NO can offload more contracts (Moore) to LAL.

I assume NO would try to flip Lonzo immediately to PHX or ORL.
The Pelicans have to demand Hart and Zubac. There is no way LAL walks away at this point over those two, but they are kind of back-end filler that can make okay deal a little more palatable (think Denver insisting on Mozgov in the Melo deal).

I think we'll know where they're going if they look to move Mirotic and Randle for picks over the next couple of days. That would help them clear the necessary roster spots for a 6 for 2 type of deal.
 

LondonSox

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Its painfully obvious that the Pelicans can get a better package if they sit tight until the offseason. What is entirely unclear is how much pressure Demps is under to get something done. If he needs to deal now, he should be pinging Ujiri or Karnisovas or some other team that can beat the Lakers offer.

And to be clear, the Lakers offer, as reported. isn't horrible. However it does nothing to fetch some sort of star potential in return for a top ten player. Demps seems like he needs a win here to have even a tiny shot at saving his job. And that likely won't be enough.
What's the better package than a load of young players, picks and dumping bad contracts?

I mean the offers the Celtics fans have been talking about focus around brown. The Celtics have a better piece than any Lakers in Tatum, but it's unclear they will lead with that. The Celtics have better picks to offer but I'm not sure they can match the young talent and salary relief.

I'm not super high on the Lakers guys but ball isn't bad, Ingram you can dream on for sure, kuzma isnt awful, hart is solid.

You are talking about 3/4 first round picks who have been ok or could still develop. Plus 2 more picks.

I agree though this offer isn't going anywhere, so why rush to help them. I am less clear who more volume of decent youth. Obviously other teams can have more veteran talent. It depends what NO wants.

I hope they wait though, because I don't know why this wouldn't be available in the summer. And other options
 

amfox1

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Here's a trade that works via ESPN trade machine:

NO gets: Rondo (LAL/FA), Stephenson (LAL/FA), Beasley (LAL/FA), Ingram (LAL), Kuzma (LAL), Hart (LAL), Zubac (LAL/RFA), J.Jackson (PHX), 2 LAL 1st round picks (2019/2021), 2 PHX 1st round picks (2020/MIL 2020)

LAL gets: Davis (NO), S.Hill (NO), Bender (PHX/FA), Holmes (PHX/FA), Crawford (PHX/FA)

PHX gets: Ball (LAL), Moore (NO)

Phoenix gets their PG and can build around Ball, Booker, Bridges and Ayton with their top 5 pick this year. Warren and Moore are at least credible depth pieces.

Los Angeles gets their superstar in Davis and can find flotsam and jetsam to surround LeBron and Davis for the rest of the year before finding a third star in FA this summer.

New Orleans reboots with Holiday, youth, a massive amount of cap space (with which to acquire more assets) and four extra first round picks in the next three years.
 

mcpickl

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The following works under the ESPN trade machine:

LA gets: Davis, Hill
NO gets: Rondo (FA), Beasley (FA), Ball, Kuzma, Ingram, Hart, Zubac (RFA) and two 1st round picks
That sounds like a summer time trade.

New Orleans would have to waive five guys before making that deal.

They'd burn a lot of cash to do that.

They should be able to get that same offer in the summer outside of Zubac and not have to blow so much cash since Lakers would have space to use rather than sending back junk expirings now.
 

RedOctober3829

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What's the better package than a load of young players, picks and dumping bad contracts?

I mean the offers the Celtics fans have been talking about focus around brown. The Celtics have a better piece than any Lakers in Tatum, but it's unclear they will lead with that. The Celtics have better picks to offer but I'm not sure they can match the young talent and salary relief.

I'm not super high on the Lakers guys but ball isn't bad, Ingram you can dream on for sure, kuzma isnt awful, hart is solid.

You are talking about 3/4 first round picks who have been ok or could still develop. Plus 2 more picks.

I agree though this offer isn't going anywhere, so why rush to help them. I am less clear who more volume of decent youth. Obviously other teams can have more veteran talent. It depends what NO wants.

I hope they wait though, because I don't know why this wouldn't be available in the summer. And other options
The volume of young players the Lakers want to give the Pelicans doesn't mean anything. The goal (in addition to future picks)when you are trading a player the caliber of Davis is to get prime young talent back not what the Lakers are offering. A Celtics offer(or as some said a TOR offer with Anouoby and Siakim) would give them that and we all know about the Celtics' future picks. The difference in the C's offer is that the future picks aren't their own it's from teams that will be bad for the foreseeable future. Anyone that adds AD their picks aren't going to be very high.
 

Big John

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The good news is that if the Lakers take lots of unexpiring salary back, they probably won't have space for a max free agent, although we'll have to wait until things shake out.

If the Suns take bad contracts off the Lakers hands they are just as complicit as Klutch.
 

cheech13

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The good news is that if the Lakers take lots of unexpiring salary back, they probably won't have space for a max free agent, although we'll have to wait until things shake out.

If the Suns take bad contracts off the Lakers hands they are just as complicit as Klutch.
The Lakers would not be able to get to max space if they take back Solomon Hill in a deal. Even if he's stretched they're short (roughly $25MM in space with Lebron, AD, Hill's stretch and min salary holds).
 

cheech13

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The volume of young players the Lakers want to give the Pelicans doesn't mean anything. The goal (in addition to future picks)when you are trading a player the caliber of Davis is to get prime young talent back not what the Lakers are offering. A Celtics offer(or as some said a TOR offer with Anouoby and Siakim) would give them that and we all know about the Celtics' future picks. The difference in the C's offer is that the future picks aren't their own it's from teams that will be bad for the foreseeable future. Anyone that adds AD their picks aren't going to be very high.
I don't disagree that they should be prioritizing top level talent like Tatum, but you are selling the Lakers youngsters a bit short. Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and Hart could all bring back first round picks in trades if they decided to strip mine the roster and start from scratch. It's not as if they are completely valueless assets. The trade, as it stands, is basically five first rounders and salary cap relief. It's not a no-brainer but they should consider it.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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According to AD and Klutch:

What the Celtics did to IT disqualifies them.
What the Clippers did to Griffin lands them in the final 4.

Got it.
It’s all postering at this point as Klutch wants a deal done right now before the Celtics can get involved. This is why they are now saying Davis will “only” sign with the 4 teams who are currently making offers. They are doing all they can to keep the Celtics out because they know we are the one team who can easily top a Lakers offer.
 

Big John

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The Lakers would not be able to get to max space if they take back Solomon Hill in a deal. Even if he's stretched they're short (roughly $25MM in space with Lebron, AD, Hill's stretch and min salary holds).
Yes, they are a smidgen over 30M below the cap before Hill, and a stretch of Hill costs over 5M. The may be able to add a guy willing to take less, but it's not going to be Kyrie or Kawhi.
 

RedOctober3829

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The blowhard speaks....


LaVar Ball tells ESPN that if Lonzo Ball is traded, he wants his son to go to Phoenix: “We want to be in LA. But if he’s traded, I don’t want Lonzo in New Orleans. Phoenix is the best fit for him. And I am going to speak it into existence.”
 

Sam Ray Not

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It would be a nightmare as a Celtics fan, but man what a joy it would be to see AD and Giannis on a team together.
Didn't we kinda see that already with AD and Cousins? Boogie's not quite the player Giannis is, but his ability to play high post and hit threes might make him a better fit than Giannis with AD, imo.
 

Clears Cleaver

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I don't disagree that they should be prioritizing top level talent like Tatum, but you are selling the Lakers youngsters a bit short. Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and Hart could all bring back first round picks in trades if they decided to strip mine the roster and start from scratch. It's not as if they are completely valueless assets. The trade, as it stands, is basically five first rounders and salary cap relief. It's not a no-brainer but they should consider it.
Who are four players that will never be all-stars? Or...who are four players who might be the 4th,5th,6th, and seventh best players in a title contender?