Anthony Davis: No Loyalty

NomarsFool

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If you assume for a moment that Kyrie doesn't want to be here, what about trading Kyrie for AD before July 1st? I'm of course still considering including what NOL actually wants (Tatum or Brown, Memphis pick). It seems like lots of the discussion has been around how you try and match salaries but Kyrie's salary would do that. If I was NOL, and I had the option of an overpaid Rozier and overpaid Morris on my roster, or trading for Kyrie and then having him opt out in July - I think I'd rather have Kyrie. Once again, this still assumes that I get the same haul of things I want from Boston.
 

amfox1

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Initially I thought this result means AD is not getting traded, but after sitting on it some more - I think it is highly likely that he is. He doesn't want to be there, and NOL doesn't really want him. One of the most important things for that franchise, I believe, was getting Zion. Having Zion means that they have a story to tell their fans that they have the most exciting player coming out of the draft this year, and it's a reason to watch/attend their games.

They were in a bit of a pickle, because that scenario severely limited who they could trade with. If NY had ended up with the #1, that would have severely limited NOL's hand. But now, THEY have Zion. All the pressure is really off. They can basically go out and trade AD to anyone who gives them the best package. As I think about it some more, I think the pendulum really swung towards Boston on this. Compare two scenarios:
BOS offers - Tatum (established NBA player) + Memphis pick
NYK offers - RJ Barret (non-established NBA player) + future NYK pick (with the risk that Kyrie and KD go to NY and they immediately become a non-lottery team)
I think the Knicks are much more likely to go all-in for AD, knowing that they could potentially end up with KD, Kyrie and AD.

Frank Ntilikina ($4.8mm), Kevin Knox ($4.4mm), DSJ ($4.5mm), Mitchell Robinson ($1.6mm, from Louisiana) and the #3 pick (RJ Barrett, $6.6mm once signed) for AD ($27.1mm, assume trade kicker is waived). The obvious complications are several: 1) Barrett cannot be traded until 30 days after he signs, 2) rumor is that NO doesn't like Knox and 3) this trade would decimate NYK's roster (see below).

Giving effect to the trade, waiving all of the non-guaranteed contracts and renouncing all cap holds, Knicks would have AD ($27.1mm), $7.4mm in dead cap $ and eleven open roster spots ($9.9mm). That leaves approx. $64.6mm in cap room to sign KD and Kyrie and nine spots to fill with minimum salary players or players obtained with cap exceptions.
 

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Yeah, that’s dumb, which doesn’t mean the Knicks won’t do it or at least try. If AD and Durant and Kyrie all want to play together and win the eternal love of NYC, they can privately agree to each sign for $25M apiece and AD can join them in 2020-2021 no matter what happens before then and NY can keep all those young players and hope a few blossom (IMO Robinson already has) because even those three aren't winning without some solid depth around them. They can maybe make the second round next season and then try to make a serious run with the addition of AD.
 

ehaz

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I think it's also worth remembering that despite getting #4, the Lakers offer is still less valuable than what it was when first rejected. Ball doesn't want to play in New Orleans, having his family circus mouth off is not a smart way to rebuild, and Ingram ended his season with blood clots, had shoulder surgery, and is now on blood thinners, which is further complicated by the fact that he will be an RFA after this season so if he misses any more time or starts off slow, it could complicate how far NOP is willing to go to match. If they weren't convinced he was their guy last season, why would he be now?
 

nighthob

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Yeah, that’s dumb, which doesn’t mean the Knicks won’t do it or at least try. If AD and Durant and Kyrie all want to play together and win the eternal love of NYC, they can privately agree to each sign for $25M apiece and AD can join them in 2020-2021 no matter what happens before then and NY can keep all those young players and hope a few blossom (IMO Robinson already has) because even those three aren't winning without some solid depth around them. They can maybe make the second round next season and then try to make a serious run with the addition of AD.
If they have Durant, Davis, and Irving ring chasers will be lining up to cash in. Filling out the roster is the least of their worries. And their 17 PGs won’t be “blossoming” watching Irving and Durant run the offense. They’ll be sitting on the bench losing value. As will Barrett, struggling to be a 3&D guy.

I think the Knicks are much more likely to go all-in for AD, knowing that they could potentially end up with KD, Kyrie and AD.

Frank Ntilikina ($4.8mm), Kevin Knox ($4.4mm), DSJ ($4.5mm), Mitchell Robinson ($1.6mm, from Louisiana) and the #3 pick (RJ Barrett, $6.6mm once signed) for AD ($27.1mm, assume trade kicker is waived). The obvious complications are several: 1) Barrett cannot be traded until 30 days after he signs, 2) rumor is that NO doesn't like Knox and 3) this trade would decimate NYK's roster (see below).
New York is below the cap, they don’t need to match up salaries in the deal. They just need to clear the decks to maximize cap space for free agent signings after the deal.
 

the moops

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OK, so which one of these packages is the best and most likely?

NYK - #3, Knox, Smith Jr, salary
BOS - Tatum, #14, salary
LAL - #4, Kuzma, Ball, Hart, salary

Any of these teams could obviously add future picks.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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OK, so which one of these packages is the best and most likely?

NYK - #3, Knox, Smith Jr, salary
BOS - Tatum, #14, salary
LAL - #4, Kuzma, Ball, Hart, salary

Any of these teams could obviously add future picks.
Its complicated. You can make a case for each depending on your spin. The difficult part of it is that we don't know what Griffin's true motivations are here.

With Zion effectively in the fold, he may have a lot more latitude to rebuild the team via a lower upside but deeper package of talent. On the other hand, ownership may want some sizzle in return for a superstar in which case, the Celtics may have the best main asset.

This whole process will be fascinating to watch.
 

lovegtm

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OK, so which one of these packages is the best and most likely?

NYK - #3, Knox, Smith Jr, salary
BOS - Tatum, #14, salary
LAL - #4, Kuzma, Ball, Hart, salary

Any of these teams could obviously add future picks.
Tatum is way ahead of the #3 or #4 picks in value—the Celtics would never consider dealing him for that, in the same way Utah would never do that for Mitchell.

After that, it’s a matter of how you evaluate Ball, Knox, and Smith. Kuzma doesn’t move the needle tons imo, just due to age. With Ball’s combination of injury, lack of shooting, and weird LA fetish, I think it’s Knicks or Celtics. Knicks could also add Mitchell Robinson or Dallas picks.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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OK, so which one of these packages is the best and most likely?

NYK - #3, Knox, Smith Jr, salary
BOS - Tatum, #14, salary
LAL - #4, Kuzma, Ball, Hart, salary

Any of these teams could obviously add future picks.
Zach Lowe thinks the Lakers have better assets than the Knicks at this point (though I understand your question is more specific about those particular offers, not necessarily the kitchen sink offer each team could put together):
For all their flaws -- and perhaps too much has been made of those flaws considering the players' age -- the Lakers' young players have more combined trade value than Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith Jr. and Mitchell Robinson. (Does Robinson have the most trade value of those four guys? He might. He had the best 2018-19 season among them.)

The No. 3 pick in this draft plus all of those guys does not carry the same appeal as the No. 4 pick plus Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart and Kyle Kuzma. I'm not sure the two Dallas future first-round picks the Knicks received in the Kristaps Porzingis deal tilt the equation in their favor; the Lakers can add their own first-round picks into any Davis package. If the Davis sweepstakes still happens, the Lakers probably come out of the lottery ahead of Knicks.

Some in the league wonder if the Pelicans' ownership and the New Orleans Saints officials who once had so much influence might still hold some grudge against the Lakers. Maybe. The door is slightly ajar for a surprise Davis suitor beyond the Lakers, Knicks and Celtics. But Gayle Benson has empowered Griffin, and the bet here is that Griffin will push for the best deal -- if a deal happens -- without much regard to the destination.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26743404/what-happened-wildest-nba-lottery-ever-seen
 

DJnVa

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OK, so which one of these packages is the best and most likely?

NYK - #3, Knox, Smith Jr, salary
BOS - Tatum, #14, salary
LAL - #4, Kuzma, Ball, Hart, salary

Any of these teams could obviously add future picks.

All I know is if we sent Tatum to the Lakers for that offer, I'd be apoplectic.
 

nighthob

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OK, so which one of these packages is the best and most likely?

NYK - #3, Knox, Smith Jr, salary
BOS - Tatum, #14, salary
LAL - #4, Kuzma, Ball, Hart, salary

Any of these teams could obviously add future picks.
New York’s below the cap, they don’t need to add filler. What they have to add to Barrett, Knox, and DSJ are Mitch Robinson, Frankie Ntilikina, and picks. Similarly LA is below the cap this summer, so their “salary” would be Brandon Ingram.
 

lovegtm

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All I know is if we sent Tatum to the Lakers for that offer, I'd be apoplectic.
Exactly. As would Utah if that were the package for Mitchell, Philly for Simmons, Dallas for Luka, Sac for Fox, and so on.

I’ll reiterate: the reason proven guys 1-3 years into their deals rarely get moved isn’t that no one wants them, it’s that they’re too valuable.
 

cheech13

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OK, so which one of these packages is the best and most likely?

NYK - #3, Knox, Smith Jr, salary
BOS - Tatum, #14, salary
LAL - #4, Kuzma, Ball, Hart, salary

Any of these teams could obviously add future picks.
It depends on how highly Griffin values Tatum, doesn't it? GMs fall in love with the draft. Maybe he thinks he can find a comparable talent to Tatum at #3 or #4. Even if it's less of a sure thing, the extra two years of team control might mitigate some of the risk from their perspective. The "+" matters in these deals, but ultimately teams usually look for the deal with the best individual piece.

The other wild card here is that the Lakers and Knicks can take back Anthony Davis into space without matching salaries. That could be attractive to a team like the Pelicans that now is looking to build a long-term contender around Zion. They don't need to clog up their cap with good, but not great role players making market value.

Also, given how the playoffs have gone we can't rule out another team jumping in at the last minute. The Sixes may ultimately dangle Simmons. The Clippers can still put together some attractive packages. Toronto could build something around Siakam. There are just a lot of unknowns and free agency is going to further muddy the waters.
 

Captaincoop

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The Memphis pick is really hard to place a value on, and that complicates any attempt to compare these packages.

After watching the new lottery process unfold...how much would you give up for a Memphis pick next year, even if it becomes unprotected in 2021? Look at the Phoenix situation last night. They were tied for the second-worst record in the NBA and ended up with the #6 pick. Given all the variables - how bad is Memphis actually going to be next year with a young star added and little incentive to tank? Even if they do end up in the bottom 5, where do they shake out in the lottery, etc...how valuable is that pick versus the #3 or #4 pick this year?

The Celtics are almost in a spot where that (potentially very valuable) pick is going to end up treated as a throw-in, just because they have it. If I'm New Orleans, there is no way I'm trading AD to Boston without that pick coming back.
 

RedOctober3829

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The Memphis pick is really hard to place a value on, and that complicates any attempt to compare these packages.

After watching the new lottery process unfold...how much would you give up for a Memphis pick next year, even if it becomes unprotected in 2021? Look at the Phoenix situation last night. They were tied for the second-worst record in the NBA and ended up with the #6 pick. Given all the variables - how bad is Memphis actually going to be next year with a young star added and little incentive to tank? Even if they do end up in the bottom 5, where do they shake out in the lottery, etc...how valuable is that pick versus the #3 or #4 pick this year?

The Celtics are almost in a spot where that (potentially very valuable) pick is going to end up treated as a throw-in, just because they have it. If I'm New Orleans, there is no way I'm trading AD to Boston without that pick coming back.
If I were Griffin, the trade talks with Boston would start with Tatum, Smart, and the Memphis pick. Tatum is my All-Star caliber scorer and Smart is a nice compliment to Jrue Holiday.
 

nighthob

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It depends on how highly Griffin values Tatum, doesn't it? GMs fall in love with the draft. Maybe he thinks he can find a comparable talent to Tatum at #3 or #4. Even if it's less of a sure thing, the extra two years of team control might mitigate some of the risk from their perspective. The "+" matters in these deals, but ultimately teams usually look for the deal with the best individual piece.
People are getting caught up in This Draft Sux0rs!!! mania. Morant and Barrett are basically on Tatum's level as prospects. The weakness is in the overall lack of starpower, because after the top three there are a lot of question marks. But if you have Barrett to offer, you've got an A level prospect that comes with a minimum of seven years control. And, as an added bonus, he's already been Zion's teammate, so (in theory) there won't be personality clashes.
 

cheech13

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People are getting caught up in This Draft Sux0rs!!! mania. Morant and Barrett are basically on Tatum's level as prospects. The weakness is in the overall lack of starpower, because after the top three there are a lot of question marks. But if you have Barrett to offer, you've got an A level prospect that comes with a minimum of seven years control. And, as an added bonus, he's already been Zion's teammate, so (in theory) there won't be personality clashes.
I'm with you on that. The 3rd and 4th pick are only going to increase in value the closer to draft night. For instance, Barrett/Mitchell Robinson/Kevin Knox and the two firsts from Dallas is a really good deal from NO's perspective. Again it just depends on what Griffin sees in Tatum. Does he see an MVP-level talent, or a nice complimentary player? Until we know there's no way to really compare the packages to one another.
 

JCizzle

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People are getting caught up in This Draft Sux0rs!!! mania. Morant and Barrett are basically on Tatum's level as prospects. The weakness is in the overall lack of starpower, because after the top three there are a lot of question marks. But if you have Barrett to offer, you've got an A level prospect that comes with a minimum of seven years control. And, as an added bonus, he's already been Zion's teammate, so (in theory) there won't be personality clashes.
So RJ will feel extra comfortable stealing all of Zion's touches in clutch time for the next seven years? ;)
 

BigSoxFan

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The Memphis pick is really hard to place a value on, and that complicates any attempt to compare these packages.

After watching the new lottery process unfold...how much would you give up for a Memphis pick next year, even if it becomes unprotected in 2021? Look at the Phoenix situation last night. They were tied for the second-worst record in the NBA and ended up with the #6 pick. Given all the variables - how bad is Memphis actually going to be next year with a young star added and little incentive to tank? Even if they do end up in the bottom 5, where do they shake out in the lottery, etc...how valuable is that pick versus the #3 or #4 pick this year?

The Celtics are almost in a spot where that (potentially very valuable) pick is going to end up treated as a throw-in, just because they have it. If I'm New Orleans, there is no way I'm trading AD to Boston without that pick coming back.
I look at it the other way. The Memphis pick is very valuable, especially if it goes into 2021. Due to the new lotto rules, teams will almost always make traded picks top 4 protected. We just saw 3 teams move up 6 or more spots. If you have a pick from a team that you expect to miss the playoffs, you have a free lotto ticket. And Memphis figures to suck for foreseeable future.

There just won’t be that many unprotected picks on the marketplace and so it is rightfully one of the most valuable picks on the trade market.
 

NomarsFool

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I just don't see any scenario how RJ Barrett is worth more than Jason Tatum. We already know that Jason Tatum at a minimum, is a starting-caliber NBA basketball player, with an upside of being an All Star someday. Barrett has never played a minute in the NBA, and as we have seen time and time again - even high lottery picks (Fultz, Ball) can completely flame out.

Did I read correctly that New York has a non-NY draft pick in its future pocket?
 

BigSoxFan

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I just don't see any scenario how RJ Barrett is worth more than Jason Tatum. We already know that Jason Tatum at a minimum, is a starting-caliber NBA basketball player, with an upside of being an All Star someday. Barrett has never played a minute in the NBA, and as we have seen time and time again - even high lottery picks (Fultz, Ball) can completely flame out.

Did I read correctly that New York has a non-NY draft pick in its future pocket?
Yup. Knicks have Mavs 2021 unprotected and 1 of 2023-2025 top 10 protected (turns into 2026 2nd if doesn’t convey between 2023-2025).
 

Mystic Merlin

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I just don't see any scenario how RJ Barrett is worth more than Jason Tatum. We already know that Jason Tatum at a minimum, is a starting-caliber NBA basketball player, with an upside of being an All Star someday. Barrett has never played a minute in the NBA, and as we have seen time and time again - even high lottery picks (Fultz, Ball) can completely flame out.

Did I read correctly that New York has a non-NY draft pick in its future pocket?
I think it’s nuts to value Barrett more than Tatum.
 

vicirus

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If I were Griffin, the trade talks with Boston would start with Tatum, Smart, and the Memphis pick. Tatum is my All-Star caliber scorer and Smart is a nice compliment to Jrue Holiday.
I think this is the offer that will ultimately get it done, but it would be nice if they can add protection to it in 2021 (maybe top 1 or 2) in exchange for a couple other picks/swaps. The Celtics are also one of the only teams with “expendable” firsts this year that could be used to off load Hill or Moore’s contracts to a third team. That’s pretty valuable in that an LA/NY doesn’t have the extra cap space to absorb bad contracts and lacks the extra picks (barring including future 1sts) to move them to a third team.

Another option is to bundle #14 with #20 and #22 to move up higher and give NO a better overall pick. Maybe Atlanta would swap #10, or dream scenario, Phoenix takes all three picks along with a S&T Rozier for #6. That would be a nice piece to add to a package or swap in for the Memphis pick if NO Doesn’t like the variablility of that pick. Lots of options to get a deal done.
 

nighthob

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I just don't see any scenario how RJ Barrett is worth more than Jason Tatum. We already know that Jason Tatum at a minimum, is a starting-caliber NBA basketball player, with an upside of being an All Star someday. Barrett has never played a minute in the NBA, and as we have seen time and time again - even high lottery picks (Fultz, Ball) can completely flame out.
No one is saying that he’s worth more. We’re pointing out that that guys that long and athletic are generally serious prospects. And as an added bonus he comes with two extra years of control.
 

DJnVa

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I think this is the offer that will ultimately get it done, but it would be nice if they can add protection to it in 2021 (maybe top 1 or 2) in exchange for a couple other picks/swaps.
There's no way they could put that protection on there, because if the pick hits at #1, we have no corresponding asset that would be comparable and we can't roll it over, because it's not our pick--therefore why would NO ever agree to it?
 

the moops

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There's no way they could put that protection on there, because if the pick hits at #1, we have no corresponding asset that would be comparable and we can't roll it over, because it's not our pick--therefore why would NO ever agree to it?
Also don't think it is allowed anyway. Can't add protections to an already protected traded pick
 

DJnVa

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Yahoo tries to put together each team's best offer.

Celtics:
The Celtics also have Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart to dangle in any potential trade for Davis. Despite Tatum’s step back into the midrange, he might be the best trade chip on the market, and Brown is not far behind. Open up their chest of first-round picks, which include the one from Memphis and pick Nos. 14, 20 and 22 this season, and it is hard to imagine any other team matching that breadth of young talent, all of which would fit seamlessly around Williamson.
Lakers:
If the deal wasn’t good enough for New Orleans before, I’m not sure adding, say, Texas Tech sophomore Jarrett Culver to the mix makes up for question marks that follow presumed blue-chip assets Ingram and Ball into next season and beyond.
Knicks:
The Knicks have few enticing trade chips on the roster, outside of 2018 second-round pick Mitchell Robinson. Recent lottery selections Frank Ntilikina and Kevin Knox are not blue-chip assets. It is hard to imagine Griffin dealing Davis without getting one proven NBA talent in return
Sixers:
One question remains: Would they trade Ben Simmons for Davis? He is a 22-year-old All-Star who does not fit perfectly with superstar center Joel Embiid and who has disappeared for stretches of his first two playoff runs. Yet, he would be the best building block on the table if Philadelphia offers him to New Orleans, although the fact that Rich Paul represents both Davis and Simmons complicates matters.
Clippers:
Still, none of those guys (Shamet, Zubac, SGA) is the sort of blue-chip talent the Pelicans will be looking to land in return for Davis. The 2021 unprotected pick from Miami is probably their best trade asset, but the Clippers also owe their own 2019 and 2021 picks in previous trades, so the depth of what they can offer to sweeten the pot is limited.
Suns:
Recent lottery picks Josh Jackson and Dragan Bender have done them no favors, and while Mikal Bridges has a promising future, he can’t anchor a trade offer, either.

Still, the Suns have two players — scoring sensation Devin Booker and 2018 first overall pick Deandre Ayton — who might trump any other package by themselves.

Would Phoenix risk trading either player for Davis, considering the Pelicans star could walk in 2020 free agency? It seems unlikely that Davis would want to trade one bumbling organization for another
Raptors:
Pascal Siakam transformed himself into a borderline All-Star in his third season, and he would be the centerpiece of Toronto’s trade offer. owever, the Raptors already owe their 2019 first-round pick to San Antonio, and a potential Leonard-Davis pairing would all but ensure their 2021 pick wouldn’t be so great. Without a top-end pick to package around Siakam and Anunoby, it will be hard to sell Griffin on that deal, unless Siakam makes another leap in these playoffs.
He also mentions Nets and Nuggets, but they seem far-fetched--Nets requiring Russell to agree to S&T and NO likely not valuing Jamal Murray enough.
 

cheech13

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This is probably the wrong question to ask on a Celtics board, but is Jamal Murray really that much less of an asset than Tatum? No issue with preferring Tatum's upside and versatility, but Murray just showed that he's good enough to be the second best player on a potential contender and he's still young and improving (just 1 year older than Tatum). Not sure I see why NO wouldn't value him highly in a trade if Denver wanted to get in the mix.
 

moondog80

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This is probably the wrong question to ask on a Celtics board, but is Jamal Murray really that much less of an asset than Tatum? No issue with preferring Tatum's upside and versatility, but Murray just showed that he's good enough to be the second best player on a potential contender and he's still young and improving (just 1 year older than Tatum). Not sure I see why NO wouldn't value him highly in a trade if Denver wanted to get in the mix.
If nothing else, the one extra year of team control makes Tatum more valuable. Moreover, the C's have the better secondary assets to throw in -- who has a second piece better than the Memphis pick (or Brown)?
 

DJnVa

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This is probably the wrong question to ask on a Celtics board, but is Jamal Murray really that much less of an asset than Tatum? No issue with preferring Tatum's upside and versatility, but Murray just showed that he's good enough to be the second best player on a potential contender and he's still young and improving (just 1 year older than Tatum). Not sure I see why NO wouldn't value him highly in a trade if Denver wanted to get in the mix.
Here's what article said--so yes, it's possible NO might like him, however, the bolded is important:

Jamal Murray may have been inconsistent throughout his third season, but he was also a big reason why the Nuggets came within a Game 7 collapse of the Western Conference finals this season. A package including him is at least interesting.

Denver does not have a top-end pick to offer New Orleans, and it owes its first-rounder this year to Brooklyn, but it does have the promise of Michael Porter Jr. — a one-time elite prospect who missed his rookie season with back issues — and several other young talents, including Gary Harris, Monte Morris and Malik Beasley.

Betting on Murray to morph into a consistent star, without draft picks to make this deal more palatable, would be quite a bet for Griffin, but man, it would be something to see Davis and Nikola Jokic play together in the same frontcourt.
With Tatum, even if you think Murray *might* be better, you can get more extra assets. Denver simply doesn't have them.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I love Murray but I think a case can be made that Tatum is already superior to him on both ends of the court.

That said, I agree that others may prefer Murray because he has shown more aggressiveness and played relatively well in the playoffs (his shooting suffered but that is because he was one of Denver's focal points on offense).

Finally, team control is a consideration (especially when comparing Murray and Tatum) but when we discuss draft picks other than Williamson or maybe Morant, any GM who makes that a deciding factor between say, Tatum and the third or fourth pick probably doesn't deserve their job. Tatum has an established baseline of good production in the NBA. The player picked at a given spot may surpass that level or be out of the league before his rookie deal is up.

In short, team control should really only be a major consideration when you are comparing two players who appear to be close in talent.
 

nighthob

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This is probably the wrong question to ask on a Celtics board, but is Jamal Murray really that much less of an asset than Tatum? No issue with preferring Tatum's upside and versatility, but Murray just showed that he's good enough to be the second best player on a potential contender and he's still young and improving (just 1 year older than Tatum). Not sure I see why NO wouldn't value him highly in a trade if Denver wanted to get in the mix.
I think his performance is close to Tatum's. They both look like guys that can be perennial all stars. Tatum, of course, has the length advantage, but Murray has the broader game advantage. In terms of shooting both guys were a little worse this year than last.

The real wildcard would probably be Porter, if he's really healthy and shows well in summer league that's a serious secondary asset to be putting with Murray.
 

DJnVa

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I think his performance is close to Tatum's. They both look like guys that can be perennial all stars. Tatum, of course, has the length advantage, but Murray has the broader game advantage. In terms of shooting both guys were a little worse this year than last.

The real wildcard would probably be Porter, if he's really healthy and shows well in summer league that's a serious secondary asset to be putting with Murray.
But won't this deal be going down before he can show off in summer leagues?
 

lovegtm

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This is probably the wrong question to ask on a Celtics board, but is Jamal Murray really that much less of an asset than Tatum? No issue with preferring Tatum's upside and versatility, but Murray just showed that he's good enough to be the second best player on a potential contender and he's still young and improving (just 1 year older than Tatum). Not sure I see why NO wouldn't value him highly in a trade if Denver wanted to get in the mix.
People here are pretty realistic about our young guys imo, maybe even too negative, so it’s a reasonable question.

I like Murray’s offensive potential a lot, but Tatum is just so far ahead defensively, with room to get better, that you have to like Murray’s O a ton more to put him ahead. The slight age gap is also an edge for Tatum. I’d say Murray’s one tier below as a young prospect, but of course could end up better.
 

nighthob

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But won't this deal be going down before he can show off in summer leagues?
Not really. Boston can't make a trade for Davis until July. And if Denver really does enter the bidding, I'm sure the Pelicans won't have any reservations about waiting an extra couple of weeks to see how Porter looks.
 

cheech13

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But won't this deal be going down before he can show off in summer leagues?
Probably not. New Orleans doesn't seem to be in any rush to make a deal. If something doesn't get done in the initial days of free agency then I could even see it lingering into the season. Griffin is going to take every opportunity to sell Davis on playing with Zion. Those potential deals aren't going to go away.
 

djbayko

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Bulpett’s sources are saying the Pelicans still view the Celtics as the most likely trade partner for AD trade. Also says NO won’t do business with the Lakers after the fiasco in the winter.
I don’t know if I believe the bolded, but if true, that’s fucking awesome...even if we don’t get AD. Immediately following the draft lottery the other night, r/NBA was swamped with Lakers fans arguing about how many of Ball/Ingram/Kuzma they were going to be able to keep now that they had the #4 pick. To them, AD in LA was a forgone conclusion...they won the lottery.
 

The Social Chair

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Bulpett’s sources are saying the Pelicans still view the Celtics as the most likely trade partner for AD trade. Also says NO won’t do business with the Lakers after the fiasco in the winter.
I'm not sure I buy Bulpett having any sources outside middle level Celtics management.
 

ZMart100

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Probably not. New Orleans doesn't seem to be in any rush to make a deal. If something doesn't get done in the initial days of free agency then I could even see it lingering into the season. Griffin is going to take every opportunity to sell Davis on playing with Zion. Those potential deals aren't going to go away.
I would guess they have something in principal done by the draft. They will want to choose whatever 2019 draft picks they are getting.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I'm not sure I buy Bulpett having any sources outside middle level Celtics management.
I agree with this and I would also add that while the Pelicans ownership and organization has remained the same, they now have a new GM in Griffin. Griffin obviously has ties to LeBron and Klutch as well as around the league in general.

Once again, the return is really contingent on what Griffin's bosses are expecting him to do. If he wants the best package possible, he needs to include all bidders including the Lakers. And if he is looking for a diversified package of talent vs a big name, that will also impact the Celtics chances. Tatum is arguably the biggest star who has been mentioned going to New Orleans but if Griffin is empowered to get a bunch of useful young bodies and pick assets, that opens the field up to a bunch of other teams.

Unless Bulpett is privy to the dynamic between Griffin and the Gayle Benson, he probably knows little more than we do at this point.
 

Bad Penny

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I agree with this and I would also add that while the Pelicans ownership and organization has remained the same, they now have a new GM in Griffin. Griffin obviously has ties to LeBron and Klutch as well as around the league in general.

Once again, the return is really contingent on what Griffin's bosses are expecting him to do. If he wants the best package possible, he needs to include all bidders including the Lakers. And if he is looking for a diversified package of talent vs a big name, that will also impact the Celtics chances. Tatum is arguably the biggest star who has been mentioned going to New Orleans but if Griffin is empowered to get a bunch of useful young bodies and pick assets, that opens the field up to a bunch of other teams.

Unless Bulpett is privy to the dynamic between Griffin and the Gayle Benson, he probably knows little more than we do at this point.
Griffin is way too smart to not consider every avenue.

AD is great. He is a young two-way player, who is at worst a top seven player in the world. Despite that last sentiment, I believe some people are overestimating what he will return in trade.
 

DJnVa

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Not really. Boston can't make a trade for Davis until July. And if Denver really does enter the bidding, I'm sure the Pelicans won't have any reservations about waiting an extra couple of weeks to see how Porter looks.
Probably not. New Orleans doesn't seem to be in any rush to make a deal. If something doesn't get done in the initial days of free agency then I could even see it lingering into the season. Griffin is going to take every opportunity to sell Davis on playing with Zion. Those potential deals aren't going to go away.
Not sure I agree. It seems very unlikely to me that a 2019 draft choice of some sort won't be going NO's way. And they're going to want to decide who it's used on.