Are the Pats the worst team in the NFL?

[johnmd20]

I may be misremembering, but the offensive skill positions were only part of the problem. I recall a lot of Brady eating sacks and getting knocked down that last season and I thought part of the reason he wanted to leave NE was so that he wouldn't get mauled as much. That was now 5 years ago and the O-line situation has gotten worse. So unless some of that draft capital was going to the O-line as well, Brady was already out the door.
FWIW, just another piece of evidence in how important Scar was to the success of those teams.

It's actually all the evidence you need in how important Tom Brady was to the success of the team. Plenty of evidence has built up now that without Brady the Pats have been a bottom 10 team overall. One decent season since and in that year, the Pats got truly crushed in a playoff game. The ceiling was limp into the playoffs on a favorable schedule and get murdered. The floor was bottom three team in the league.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I may be misremembering, but the offensive skill positions were only part of the problem. I recall a lot of Brady eating sacks and getting knocked down that last season and I thought part of the reason he wanted to leave NE was so that he wouldn't get mauled as much. That was now 5 years ago and the O-line situation has gotten worse. So unless some of that draft capital was going to the O-line as well, Brady was already out the door.
FWIW, just another piece of evidence in how important Scar was to the success of those teams.

Brady never really took hits or ate sacks during his end here. His pocket time in 2018 was 2.5, and in 2019, it was 2.4. He was blitzed 108 times in 2018, and 198 times in 2019. He was hurried 48 times in 2018 and 55 times in 2019, and he was hit 39 times in 2018 and only 37 times in 2019. The pressure rate in 2018 was 18.1 and in 2019, it was 18.4. To put that in perspective what receivers and a decent O Line can do, in his time in TB, his pressure rate was 17.8, 11.1 and 13.2.

His sack% from 2015-2019 was 5.74, 3.36, 5.68, 3.55, 4.22 (2019)

It was the inability of the receivers to do fucking anything that drove him out the door.

In 2018, he threw the ball away 22 times. In 2019, he threw it away 40 times.

In his three years in Tampa, he threw the ball away 13, 13 and 22 times. 2019 was also an outlier in drop% from his wide receivers at 5.9%. It was 4.6% in 2018, and then 5.2%, 4.5% and 4.5% in Tampa. The shittiness of that 2019 receiving corps was incredible, only to be followed up by the Pats with 4 years of even more shittierness...

 

[Bongorific]

What am I missing?

It’s a joke. Like did they seriously give up a 2nd for Sanu?
Yes, yes they did.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Brady never really took hits or ate sacks during his end here. His pocket time in 2018 was 2.5, and in 2019, it was 2.4. He was blitzed 108 times in 2018, and 198 times in 2019. He was hurried 48 times in 2018 and 55 times in 2019, and he was hit 39 times in 2018 and only 37 times in 2019. The pressure rate in 2018 was 18.1 and in 2019, it was 18.4. To put that in perspective what receivers and a decent O Line can do, in his time in TB, his pressure rate was 17.8, 11.1 and 13.2.

His sack% from 2015-2019 was 5.74, 3.36, 5.68, 3.55, 4.22 (2019)

It was the inability of the receivers to do fucking anything that drove him out the door.

In 2018, he threw the ball away 22 times. In 2019, he threw it away 40 times.

In his three years in Tampa, he threw the ball away 13, 13 and 22 times. 2019 was also an outlier in drop% from his wide receivers at 5.9%. It was 4.6% in 2018, and then 5.2%, 4.5% and 4.5% in Tampa. The shittiness of that 2019 receiving corps was incredible, only to be followed up by the Pats with 4 years of even more shittierness...

Yeah Brady left for a number of reasons, 1 was offensive weapons likely, a number were likely about interpersonal relationships... the final one.... the team was in the inevitable decline as their stars aged out (Gronk, Edelman, McCourty, Chung. The depth was a struggle too. If Brady stayed they were probably a playoff team for 2 more years, but SBs would be hard, but a place like TB.... they were set up for a SB with the right QB.

The Patriots did an incredible job throughout Brady's tenure of reloading rather than rebuilding without cap space or high picks, but that isn't sustainable, eventually evaluation and injury lead to busts, and they had fewer total steals to offset... but Brady being a top 1 QB in the league and a good coach meant they never really had those 6-11 seasons or even 8-8, they still won 11, 12 games, margins kept getting tighter... and they started reaching... overpaying in trades, overdrafting at positions of need, and they busted.

 

[NomarsFool]

It is amazing that the Pats gave up a 2nd for Sanu and Amari Cooper just went for, essentially a 3rd round pick.

 

[Cellar-Door]

It is amazing that the Pats gave up a 2nd for Sanu and Amari Cooper just went for, essentially a 3rd round pick.

Sanu was a huge overpay at the time, and clearly driven by Brady being in his last year... but also it does feel like teams have changed how they look at WR value for anybody near or over 30

 

[luckiestman]

It is amazing that the Pats gave up a 2nd for Sanu and Amari Cooper just went for, essentially a 3rd round pick.

Adams and Cooper both went for thirds but the money is way different. I think Adams still owed 12M, Cooper costs Bills 800 grand (at least that is what I think I heard). So you can’t just look at the draft value.

 

[ManicCompression]

Convenient that you quoted that one and not the one where I stated that I agreed the personnel moves on offense didn’t pan out.

They had to restock the whole roster basically given the amount of premium talent they lost. I think BB actually did an excellent job restocking the D. Obviously it imploded on offense thanks to Mac not working out.

I don’t think any GM could have feasibly replaced all the talent they lost in a short period. BB did better than expected on D and worse on offense. But the reality is, if Mac was a top 12-15ish QB (not elite but solid starter a la Geno Smith perhaps) BB would probably still be here.

I think there were 4 major things that more or less simultaneously went wrong in the rebuild

Brady left, necessitating a high pick on QB which more or less forced BB into Mac or a less palatable option. Had they not drafted Mac, I don’t know what they would have done but it seemed like a fine and obvious idea

JJSS over Meyers clearly didn’t pan out as hoped. I think the logic made sense (wanted someone with play making YAC ability and whiffed on the eval of JJSS’s knee or declining skill)

Paying Mason instead of Thuney. I don’t think BB wanted to have 3 highly paid interior OL (all 3 were top of market at their respective positions when signed). Probably should have let Mason go and retained Thuney.

Not planning for the LT beyond Trent Brown. Stuck with Wynn too long maybe? Not sure what the plan at LT would have been in 2024 had BB still been around but neglecting the position after Wynn was a mistake.

Now, in a world where Mac isn’t terrible, an offense of Jones, Stevenson, Bourne, Douglas, Henry (and Boutte and Meyers) with an OL including Thuney, Andrews, Onwenu is a competent group.

I know that’s a lot of hypotheticals but really he found a lot of the right pieces. A WR group of Douglas, Meyers, Bourne and Boutte isn’t great but it’s not a wasteland. That OL is rock solid inside. Stevenson and Henry are good starters and Jones (in this world) would be competent

The difference between “decent if boring” and “wasteland” is really 2-4 major decisions that all went terribly despite making sense on paper coinciding with a massive talent drain on both sides of the ball.

I don’t think it’s spit shining shit to point out the D was restocked pretty well and BB found some solid medium term offensive pieces (including Henry and Bourne in FA). He failed massively at finding a QB and a dynamic #1 WR. That’s going to sink any offense.

This whole post just kind of reads like you're doing the exact thing you're saying you're not doing. "If BB didn't make four massive mistakes, the offense would potentially be competent," isn't a great endorsement.

I'm also not as convinced as you that the D was excellently restocked. For all the attention and resources he devoted to it, there's still a not a single position group on that side of the ball that feels like a strength outside of maybe safety, which is pretty low on the spectrum of positional importance. You would expect an excellently restocked defense to have a number of contributors that other teams want, but I don't think we have any outside of the second year guys (who still have a lot to prove).

I just don't understand why you think it's cool for BB to flail as a teambuilder for 5 years, but you expect Wolf to undo all his damage in 1. You even say "I don't think any GM could have feasibly replaced all the talent they lost in a short period..." but he had several offseasons to just make incremental improvements and couldn't do it, he left the team in a worse spot than it was in 2019, and now the new FO is dealing with the repercussions.

We might just have a different POV over small things, but to me there's no justification for what BB did post-Brady and the near-term expectations for the new folks should be low because of what he left behind.

 

[soxpatscelts1524]

Over the offseason, I couldn't help but shake the feeling that this team was run by amaeturs who ran the team like a fan off the street or someone just trying to follow the conventional wisdom would.

The first reason was that there was significant buzz about the Patriots trading the #3 pick. You would've like to seen a more professional FO who realized that franchise QBs, especially on rookie deals, are golden in the NFL and a shot at one on a rookie contract is so immensely valuable that it doesn't make sense to seriously entertain trade discussions. While I'm happy with the outcome that we got Maye, it was crazy to me that it seemed like the FO was even considering passing up on a franchise QB and entering QB no-man's land. There were also credible rumors that the Patriots tried to trade #3 + more for Justin Herbert, which would've been total malpractice. While Herbert is a great QB, why would we want an expensive QB who doesn't make a team a super bowl contender on his own instead of a shot at a star at #3? All the excuses people make for him in LA (bad coaching, bad talent around him) would also apply here moreso.

The draft also appeared to be completely laser focused on "supporting Maye" instead of taking good players. The 2nd and 3rd round picks were massive reaches compared to consensus, which, on average does destroy value per people like Arif Hassan's work. Polk was probably the 3rd best receiver on his college team and analytics were very down on him and we passed on significant defensive talent (DeJean, McKinstry, Cooper) for him. He had a coaching connection and was probably the highest WR on the board, but I find it very hard to believe that he was the team's BPA. We likely laser-focused on the "best WR" and lost a ton of value for it. Then, in the third round, we took a guy way off the board to "give Maye O-Line help." The problem being, it's rare to find quality tackles in the third round, the guy has a very limited ceiling, and will likely end up as a backup long-term and not fill any holes at all. This was at a pick where there was a ton of defensive talent available again, but it seemed like we locked in on the offense.

Lastly, in FA, we spent a ton of money on mediocre players, or good players at non-premium positions. While I know we have an abundance of cash, and a paucity of players wanting to come here, it was still disappointing to see all the money spent on safeties and players like Rhamondre.

Lastly, I know my post will be met with the obvious objections of "well how did you know Polk or Wallace wasn't the best player on their board?" Of course I don't know. Maybe they were not locked in on the position and they really just loved the players, who knows? But even if they were, the stats suggest that we should give a ton of caution towards reaches. And one point I would make in my favor is that, the reason it probably seems like we're run by old schoolers who hate stats or amaeturs is that we probably are:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41328710/nfl-analytics-survey-2024-most-least-analytically-inclined-teams-predictions-stats

A survey around the league rated us as the second least analytically inclined team in the NFL. Our FO is behind the curve and is going to be a problem for this franchise, despite them seemingly lucking into a potential franchise QB in Maye. Let's hope we don't squander him. I'd suspect, given the public criticism of the line, the team is going to lock in on the best OT available next draft, regardless of whether or not there's a better, more franchise changing player available at another premium position. I hope that's not the case, but given what we've seen so far, it seems likely. I hope we luck out next year and coincidentally draft in a spot where the best OT is actually the best pick, like Maye was. Because otherwise, we might squander a huge opportunity.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

The first reason was that there was significant buzz about the Patriots trading the #3 pick. You would've like to seen a more professional FO who realized that franchise QBs, especially on rookie deals, are golden in the NFL and a shot at one on a rookie contract is so immensely valuable that it doesn't make sense to seriously entertain trade discussions. While I'm happy with the outcome that we got Maye, it was crazy to me that it seemed like the FO was even considering passing up on a franchise QB and entering QB no-man's land. There were also credible rumors that the Patriots tried to trade #3 + more for Justin Herbert, which would've been total malpractice. While Herbert is a great QB, why would we want an expensive QB who doesn't make a team a super bowl contender on his own instead of a shot at a star at #3? All the excuses people make for him in LA (bad coaching, bad talent around him) would also apply here moreso.

Let me get this straight.

1. You wanted them to stay at #3 and draft Maye.
2. They did stay at #3 and draft Maye.
3. But you don't like that they announced that they would entertain trade offers.
4. And you don't like a rumored deal that didn't happen.

This seems unreasonable. I think it is a no-brainer that you almost always entertain trade offers. You never know what some team might be willing to pay, and you gain nothing by not taking calls. The only reason I say "almost" is because there are a few select players where it is not possible to make a beneficial trade. (For example, Tom Brady for most of his Pats career). Listening to offers for a pick does not mean the same thing as trying to trade a pick.

It's similar with a rumored deal. It's not fair to knock the front office because of rumors that never happened.

The draft also appeared to be completely laser focused on "supporting Maye" instead of taking good players.

THe jury is still out on the draft, though it is fair to criticize the lack of immediate impact by anyone after Maye. But I think the objective was not "supporting Maye" but "rebuilding a mess of an offense that badly needed the help." Last year's draft, though, run by the same people, is looking very good at this point - it looks like the Pats added at least 4 (CG, White, Douglas, Baringer) and possibly as many as 7 (Mapu, Sow, Boutte) starters from that draft.

A survey around the league rated us as the second least analytically inclined team in the NFL. Our FO is behind the curve and is going to be a problem for this franchise, despite them seemingly lucking into a potential franchise QB in Maye. Let's hope we don't squander him. I'd suspect, given the public criticism of the line, the team is going to lock in on the best OT available next draft, regardless of whether or not there's a better, more franchise changing player available at another premium position. I hope that's not the case, but given what we've seen so far, it seems likely. I hope we luck out next year and coincidentally draft in a spot where the best OT is actually the best pick, like Maye was. Because otherwise, we might squander a huge opportunity.

This is a legit problem if true, but it probably has more to do with BB than with Eliot Wolf. It is not as if the Pats had a huge analytics staff that walked when BB did - quite the opposite. I am not sure what the Pats are doing in that regard, but I would imagine it takes time, more than one offseason, to change this.

 

[ManicCompression]

This is a legit problem if true, but it probably has more to do with BB than with Eliot Wolf. It is not as if the Pats had a huge analytics staff that walked when BB did - quite the opposite. I am not sure what the Pats are doing in that regard, but I would imagine it takes time, more than one offseason, to change this.

Seems relevant to note that the Cleveland Browns overwhelmingly top all those “who uses analytics the most” polls and wow do they still do some dumb shit (even if we concede Watson was an owner mandate). I think the jury is still out on whether current analytics moves the needle all that much for a football team. It’s the sport with by far the most variables and will always require a high level of subjectivity to evaluate because of it.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Seems relevant to note that the Cleveland Browns overwhelmingly top all those “who uses analytics the most” polls and wow do they still do some dumb shit (even if we concede Watson was an owner mandate). I think the jury is still out on whether current analytics moves the needle all that much for a football team. It’s the sport with by far the most variables and will always require a high level of subjectivity to evaluate because of it.

Unlike baseball there seems to be no correlation between perceived analytics use and franchise success.

I also wouldn't read much into the survey, which seems to lean heavily on asking people who hired their friends and who made move that their model liked. It makes me think of when Bill was explaining some of the process they use and... It was basically the same thing as analytics would buying using tendencies/history instead of a computer model. In a lot of ways Ernie Adams appears to have been the first NFL analytics guy... He just didn't call it that

 

[ManicCompression]

Unlike baseball there seems to be no correlation between perceived analytics use and franchise success.

I also wouldn't read much into the survey, which seems to lean heavily on asking people who hired their friends and who made move that their model liked. It makes me think of when Bill was explaining some of the process they use and... It was basically the same thing as analytics would buying using tendencies/history instead of a computer model. In a lot of ways Ernie Adams appears to have been the first NFL analytics guy... He just didn't call it that

And the same kind of thing happens where “analytics” rebrands common knowledge. Like “speed score” was touted as some brilliant breakthrough (and still referenced in places) when all it’s saying is “big guys who run fast are superior athletes.” No kidding? Like scouts weren’t pointing that out for decades already?

 

[Traut]

They are making a compelling case in London today that they are the worst team in the NFL.

The good news: Maye looks fine.

The bad news: Everything else. Terrible drops, dumb penalties, poor defense and terrible special teams.

 

[Old Fart Tree]

Oh they are not a good football team; this has been confirmed.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Have to admit, I was wrong on the "how much of a downgrade could Belichicks to Mayo/Covington really be?" question.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

They are making a compelling case in London today that they are the worst team in the NFL.

The good news: Maye looks fine.

The bad news: Everything else. Terrible drops, dumb penalties, poor defense and terrible special teams.

And horrible coaching.

It's looking like they will need to blow everything up again this coming offseason if they are serious about a rebuild.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Are the Pats the worst team in the NFL?

Yes.

 

[GreyisGone]

And horrible coaching.

It's looking like they will need to blow everything up again this coming offseason if they are serious about a rebuild.

Thing is they didn’t really blow anything up this past offseason. Promoted a coach and GM from within. All they did was get rid of the only good part of their leadership team.

 

[Helmet Head]

Far and away the worst team in the NFL

Very little talent and poor coaching. Have a hard time seeing anything change over the next couple years as well. We have had season tickets since 89 and that check is getting harder to write every year. I obviously expected a down time after Brady and Bill, just didn’t think it would look this bad. We are basically going on year 3 of this shit show at this point with no end in sight.

 

[8slim]

Yes. It may take them a few weeks to separate from the pack, but they’re the worst.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

And horrible coaching.

It's looking like they will need to blow everything up again this coming offseason if they are serious about a rebuild.

This would require more insight, wisdom, and willingness to set their egos aside than the Krafts are likely capable of mustering.

 

[BusRaker]

At what point do you change the thread title to "The Patriots are the worst team in the NFL."? When we are 1-10 and every other team has at least 3 wins?

Both lines are getting destroyed with no fix in sight. D is forcing zero turnovers. Other teams are running on us rugby-style. Are only sure-thing receiver is a slow tight end that commits pre-snap penalties in his spare time.

The worst part is the lack of improvement. Our best game was the first and things have rapidly deteriorated over the course of the season with average injury/suspension luck.

Well I made it through 1990-1993 but I'm expecting an even worse run now at the rate we are declining week over week. Things will get worse before they will get better.

Happy Halloween!

 

[Remagellan]

Yes, they are.

 

[luckiestman]

I didn’t think so even though going in to the season I thought they were. This game was very bad. Very Gase/Jets. Good opening drive and then nothing. Maye has potential but the team could lose to Dalton on a neutral field.

 

[Dollar]

The Pats may be the worst team in the NFL, but at least they didn't give up the future of their team to get Deshaun Watson.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

They are the worst. Next week they will get crushed by the jets again. Drake Maye is going to be great.

 

[quint]

They are the worst. Next week they will get crushed by the jets again. Drake Maye is going to be great.

Nahh, they’ll beat the Jets next week.

Have some faith in Aaron Rodgers.

 

[tims4wins]

You know what I’m surprised about? Maye has looked even better than my wildest dreams for his first two games… and yet somehow I’m even less optimistic about 2025-2027 than I was when the season began.

I see almost no path to even a competitive team next year. Maybe I’m not giving enough “credit” to the injuries on both sides of the ball but the entire organization seems to be awful right now.

 

[PRabbit]

Even fully healthy this is a bottom 5 roster. On it are 3 players I could envision being cogs on a playoff team or SB contender.

Maye, Gonzalez, White. That's all the young talent to look forward to.

 

[BaseballJones]

Doesn’t have to be next year. They tried to rebuild with Mac. Didn’t work so now it’s back to ground zero. It’ll be a few years in the total dumps while they stockpile top draft picks. Mayo et al learn on the job and by 2027 they’re back to being one of the better teams in the AFC with a 25 year old stud QB and franchise LT and WR in place.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Doesn’t have to be next year. They tried to rebuild with Mac. Didn’t work so now it’s back to ground zero. It’ll be a few years in the total dumps while they stockpile top draft picks. Mayo et al learn on the job and by 2027 they’re back to being one of the better teams in the AFC with a 25 year old stud QB and franchise LT and WR in place.

Why must it be a multi year rebuild? Washington looks great this year and they’ve really done it in one, haven’t they?

If it takes 3 or 4 years to rebuild then maybe the builders are no good at this.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

The assumption that they are just going to nail the next few drafts when they’ve botched them for so long seems like pure fantasy. Although, the pushback will be that getting one or two contributors in a draft is good….but the Pats need a lot more than that, so feels like it could be awhile.

 

[Prodigal Sox]

Why must it be a multi year rebuild? Washington looks great this year and they’ve really done it in one, haven’t they?

If it takes 3 or 4 years to rebuild then maybe the builders are no good at this.

Because of the business model most NFL rosters turn over somewhere over 50 percent every 4 years. Significant progress should be made every year. It’s not being seen here. In fact there has been regression. That’s on the front office and coaching.

 

[Euclis20]

Why must it be a multi year rebuild? Washington looks great this year and they’ve really done it in one, haven’t they?

If it takes 3 or 4 years to rebuild then maybe the builders are no good at this.

I don't follow Washington enough so maybe I'm missing something, but how has their rebuild been one year? They haven't won a playoff game since Mark Brunell was their QB, and their last winning season was 2016. Teams can get surprisingly good quickly in the NFL, but typically it happens after multiple losing seasons.

 

[rodderick]

I don't follow Washington enough so maybe I'm missing something, but how has their rebuild been one year? They haven't won a playoff game since Mark Brunell was their QB, and their last winning season was 2016. Teams can get surprisingly good quickly in the NFL, but typically it happens after multiple losing seasons.

Because they've been through multiple rebuilds since their last playoff wins, just as the Pats are starting their second rebuild right now. Both teams were in a very similar situation going into this off-season.

 

[Euclis20]

Because they've been through multiple rebuilds since their last playoff wins, just as the Pats are starting their second rebuild right now. Both teams were in a very similar situation going into this off-season.

I'd argue this is the Pats first real rebuild, unless new QB always = rebuild. The 2021 roster still had a ton of players left over from the Brady years, outside of the offensive skill players (all 5 starting offensive lineman in 2021 played with Brady, as did 6 of their defensive starters). They had the same HC and a lot of the same staff from earlier. The team finally crashed last year after going exactly .500 in 3 years post-Brady, this is year 1 of their first rebuild.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I don't follow Washington enough so maybe I'm missing something, but how has their rebuild been one year? They haven't won a playoff game since Mark Brunell was their QB, and their last winning season was 2016. Teams can get surprisingly good quickly in the NFL, but typically it happens after multiple losing seasons.

They did a real GM search, found a proven (albeit mediocre) NFL coach and turned over 65% of the roster including signing 3 new OL (two of whom have been decent starters)

They didn’t just promote from within, run it back with the same roster and then act surprised when it didn’t work.

 

[rodderick]

I'd argue this is the Pats first real rebuild, unless new QB always = rebuild. The 2021 roster still had a ton of players left over from the Brady years, outside of the offensive skill players (all 5 starting offensive lineman in 2021 played with Brady, as did 6 of their defensive starters). They had the same HC and a lot of the same staff from earlier. The team finally crashed last year after going exactly .500 in 3 years post-Brady, this is year 1 of their first rebuild.

I couldn't disagree more. The 2021 off-season even included their biggest free agent splurge, aside from the rookie QB. That was 100% a rebuild.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Why must it be a multi year rebuild? Washington looks great this year and they’ve really done it in one, haven’t they?

If it takes 3 or 4 years to rebuild then maybe the builders are no good at this.

Washington's last playoff appearance was a wild card game loss in 2020, a season in which they went 7-9. The last season when they finished above .500 was 2016, when they went... 8-7-1. Their last playoff win was 2005, when <checks notes> Joe Gibbs was the coach and their QB was a 35 year old Mark Brunell. This year they are on their 5th coach since Gibbs left.

I don't think "one year rebuild" is an accurate characterization of that team.

 

[axx]

The Pats may be the worst team in the NFL, but at least they didn't give up the future of their team to get Deshaun Watson.

I'd say the Browns are a contender for the #1 pick... but they might play a bit better with Watson gone.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Washington's last playoff appearance was a wild card game loss in 2020, a season in which they went 7-9. The last season when they finished above .500 was 2016, when they went... 8-7-1. Their last playoff win was 2005, when <checks notes> Joe Gibbs was the coach and their QB was a 35 year old Mark Brunell. This year they are on their 5th coach since Gibbs left.

I don't think "one year rebuild" is an accurate characterization of that team.

Their roster, ending last season, was as bad or worse than the Pats, they had no coach, no QB and no GM

It was certainly a 1 year turnaround. It’s not like they were sitting on a bunch of great young players from previous years who are all blossoming this season.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Their roster, ending last season, was as bad or worse than the Pats, they had no coach, no QB and no GM

It was certainly a 1 year turnaround. It’s not like they were sitting on a bunch of great young players from previous years who are all blossoming this season.

Right. This is exactly what I meant. There's no reason the Pats couldn't or shouldn't be better, and maybe a lot better, than they were last year. Instead they are immeasurably worse, and that's in spite of a huge upgrade at QB.

It's a failure at every level of the organization that they are completely uncompetitive this year. They shouldn't be THIS bad.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

They did a real GM search, found a proven (albeit mediocre) NFL coach and turned over 65% of the roster including signing 3 new OL (two of whom have been decent starters)

They didn’t just promote from within, run it back with the same roster and then act surprised when it didn’t work.

Perhaps because their new ownership wasn't laboring under the mistaken notion that the head coach was the guy holding the team back.

Every day that passes makes the Krafts look worse.

 

[BaseballJones]

Their roster, ending last season, was as bad or worse than the Pats, they had no coach, no QB and no GM

It was certainly a 1 year turnaround. It’s not like they were sitting on a bunch of great young players from previous years who are all blossoming this season.

Here's their March and April transactions:

April

[TH]DATE[/TH] [TH]TRANSACTION[/TH]

April 29, 2024	Signed UDFAs QB Sam Hartman, RBs Michael Wiley and Austin Jones, CBs AJ Woods, Tyler Owens, and Chigozie Anusiem, DL Norell Pollard, S Ben Nikkel, OL David Nwaogwugwu, WR Marcus Rosemy-Jacksaint, and TE Colson Yankoff to contracts.
April 25, 2024	Declined the fifth-year option for LB Jamin Davis.
April 22, 2024	Released DL Shaka Toney.
April 18, 2024	Reinstated DE Shaka Toney from the suspended list.
April 16, 2024	Waived LS Tucker Addington.
April 15, 2024	Released LS Tucker Addington.
April 3, 2024	Signed DL Haggai Chisom Ndubuisi.
April 2, 2024	Signed LB Mykal Walker to a contract.
April 1, 2024	Signed RB Jeremy McNichols and QB Jeff Driskel to contracts.

March

[TH]DATE[/TH] [TH]TRANSACTION[/TH]

March 31, 2024	Signed OL Michael Deiter and OT Cornelius Lucas to one-year contracts.
March 25, 2024	Signed C Michael Deiter to a contract.
March 21, 2024	Signed CB James Pierre.
March 19, 2024	Signed CB Mpaj Igbinoghene to a contract.
March 18, 2024	Signed CB Michael Davis.
March 15, 2024	Signed LB Anthony Pittman, G Nick Allegretti, DEs Efe Obada and Dorance Armstrong, S Jeremy Chinn, LB Frankie Luvu, QB Marcus Mariota, K Brandon McManus. C Tyler Biadasz, DE Dante Fowler Jr., DB Jeremy Reaves, MLB Bobby Wagner and LS Tyler Ott.
March 14, 2024	Re-signed DL Efe Obada.
March 6, 2024	Signed TE Zach Ertz to a one-year contract.
March 1, 2024	Released LT Charles Leno, TE Logan Thomas and C Nick Gates.

And here's their draft:

• 1 (2): QB Jayden Daniels, LSU.
• 2 (36): DI Jer'Zhan Newton, Illinois.
• 2 (50): CB Mike Sainristil, Michigan.
• 2 (53): TE Ben Sinnott, Kansas State.
• 3 (67): OT Brandon Coleman, TCU.
• 3 (100): WR Luke McCaffrey, Rice.
• 5 (139): LB Jordan Magee, Temple.
• 5 (161): S Dominique Hampton, Washington.

That's a lot of new players added to last year's roster.

 

[ShaneTrot]

Right. This is exactly what I meant. There's no reason the Pats couldn't or shouldn't be better, and maybe a lot better, than they were last year. Instead they are immeasurably worse, and that's in spite of a huge upgrade at QB.

It's a failure at every level of the organization that they are completely uncompetitive this year. They shouldn't be THIS bad.

Is it that true? They were picked by Vegas to be the worst team in the league before the season. Since then the offensive line has been shredded by injury, no Barmore, and they lost Bentley and Peppers. I am not happy with the results but this team is devoid of play makers everywhere.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Carolina isn't going down without a fight

 

[Justthetippett]

They did a real GM search, found a proven (albeit mediocre) NFL coach and turned over 65% of the roster including signing 3 new OL (two of whom have been decent starters)

They didn’t just promote from within, run it back with the same roster and then act surprised when it didn’t work.

They've definitely been better year over year from 2023 to 2024. Peters, Quinn, Kingsbury > Wolf, Mayo, AVP...for sure. We don't know about the most important choice of Daniels over Maye. Looks like a solid choice now but it's very early. Daniels got dinged today and his slighter build was one of the primary concerns. What's tough about a rebuild is that you kind of want to do it once and have the FO, coaching staff and players grow together. Looks like Washington is on that track. The Pats...not so much. So if we clean house, Maye essentially has to start over learning a new offense when he should be doing some finer tuning of what he learned in year 1. Pats are acting like a badly run team, from top to bottom, that gets in the bad cycle of instability.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Is it that true? They were picked by Vegas to be the worst team in the league before the season. Since then the offensive line has been shredded by injury, no Barmore, and they lost Bentley and Peppers. I am not happy with the results but this team is devoid of play makers everywhere.

The defense has regressed from a top unit to a bottom one, and the offense has remained repugnant despite a massive upgrade in the QB position.

Wolf and Mayo have utterly failed to improve this team in any way, and that's simply unacceptable when we see other teams around the league be able to do so. They have in fact fielded perhaps the worst team in franchise history, or at the least least since 1990.

If you can't improve by a few games after a lousy season where you've had the chance to change everything, then you don't deserve your job. Had they even put out another 4-13 team I think they'd get some leeway. Instead they're even worse, which should have been impossible.

There is no chance I'd give Wolf and Mayo another year. Neither has any clue about what they're doing.

 

[snowmanny]

The rebuild might take a few years, but if you fired Bill because of his draft/FA record then you better see something pretty convincing in the the first two seasons to convince yourself that you brought in a better group to bring in players. If you don’t then you can’t waste more time and you need to fire them and move on to Plan C.

And I award Wolf and Mayo zero points for drafting Maye. Worlds safest pick.