Are we not doing game goats any more? (Week 9 @ Titans)
- Thread starter tims4wins
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Hiring an offensive minded guy should have been the priority last offseason instead of anointing Mayo
Or at least a known defensive minded guy who could have pulled in a top notch OC (like Quinn/Kingsbury)
a defensive minded coach with a boring and at best mediocre and inexperienced OC wasn’t the play if you want to maximize your young QB’s development over the next 3-5 years
Vrabel was allegedly very BB like in Tennessee in that he ran his own show and didn't like answering to ownership.
Even if you think he is the best coach available - and I would like to understand what it is that people think Vrabel brings to the job aside of allegedly being a "leader of men" - its hard to see the Krafts signing up for another silo coach.
Even if you think he is the best coach available - and I would like to understand what it is that people think Vrabel brings to the job aside of allegedly being a "leader of men" - its hard to see the Krafts signing up for another silo coach.
I don’t get it. His passing offenses and passing defenses were always awful. I have no interest in him coaching here.
yeah, the Titans are a top 10 defense. Basically what we hoped we might be this year is what they are, bad O, good D.
Game could have easily gone the other way if the Titans do not recover their own fumble. Team just is effed with all the injuries on defense and offensive line.
They made some plays and Maye is getting real experience. I would have loved the win but the high draft pick should help the rebuild.
They made some plays and Maye is getting real experience. I would have loved the win but the high draft pick should help the rebuild.
Roster is weak on both sides. OL had some good moments in pass protection but was mostly junk and run blocks so poorly that we'd probably be better off in five wide exclusively. Opponents continue to beat both run and pass schemes and get into the backfired bringing four.
It's not the fucking coaches. It's a bad Roster with some poor injury luck.
Goat belongs to Wolf imo.
It's not the fucking coaches. It's a bad Roster with some poor injury luck.
Goat belongs to Wolf imo.
1. The makeshift offensive line was a mess. It struggled to run and pass block.
2. The coaching staff bungled yet another end of half clock management situation. They get the ball back at their 10 inside 2 minutes. Maye hits a 10 yard pass and receiver gets out. Maybe hits a 9 yard pass and receiver gets out. On second and one, they run the ball and get stuffed. WTF? The only thing going for the offense is Maye and they take the ball out of his hands in this key spot? Both sides let the clock run. And then on 3rd and 1, they run again and get stuffed again, and this time Tennessee (duh) takes the time out, and they have to kick it back. I guess calling one running play there is minimally defensible, but to not give Maye a chance to move the ball there is a travesty. Fortunately, after a shanked punt, the defense stopped Tennessee, but the Pats chose to let the clock run rather than forcing TN to punt to Jones and maybe getting another play. This season we have seen some of the worst clock management ever. If you are just trying to kill clock and make TN burn its timeouts, you should run every time. If you are trying to move the ball, you should throw every time or at least all but once. If you don't have a fucking clue you do exactly what the Pats did.
3. I hate to say it because he was good in this game, but Maye's OT interception ears him a place here. They had a first down and plenty of time, and he threw it up for grabs like time was expiring.
2. The coaching staff bungled yet another end of half clock management situation. They get the ball back at their 10 inside 2 minutes. Maye hits a 10 yard pass and receiver gets out. Maybe hits a 9 yard pass and receiver gets out. On second and one, they run the ball and get stuffed. WTF? The only thing going for the offense is Maye and they take the ball out of his hands in this key spot? Both sides let the clock run. And then on 3rd and 1, they run again and get stuffed again, and this time Tennessee (duh) takes the time out, and they have to kick it back. I guess calling one running play there is minimally defensible, but to not give Maye a chance to move the ball there is a travesty. Fortunately, after a shanked punt, the defense stopped Tennessee, but the Pats chose to let the clock run rather than forcing TN to punt to Jones and maybe getting another play. This season we have seen some of the worst clock management ever. If you are just trying to kill clock and make TN burn its timeouts, you should run every time. If you are trying to move the ball, you should throw every time or at least all but once. If you don't have a fucking clue you do exactly what the Pats did.
3. I hate to say it because he was good in this game, but Maye's OT interception ears him a place here. They had a first down and plenty of time, and he threw it up for grabs like time was expiring.
How can anyone be upset Pats lost a meaningless game in OT to one of their biggest competitors for the #1 overall pick? That was a near perfect loss which would have been a much worse outcome had NE scored a TD in OT. Maye continues to look good given the limited weaponry, they didn't suffer any key injuries.
The Goats for me are the continued disappointment of every non Maye draft pick from last season. They need something from Polk and/or Baker. McConkey is going to have 5X more yards than both of them combined at this pace.
The Goats for me are the continued disappointment of every non Maye draft pick from last season. They need something from Polk and/or Baker. McConkey is going to have 5X more yards than both of them combined at this pace.
This is what we should hope for much of the rest of the year - flickers of improvement in both players and coaching, as few injuries as possible to build continuity (they cannot turn over the entire roster in a year), and a gritty play or two to spark hope. Going with the Deflated Game Balls motif previously suggested:
- Maye and Rham. Obviously neither truly shined (2 picks for Maye, 16 yards rushing for Rham), but Rham scored both TDs, and Maye looked like Josh Allen.
- Marcus Jones. I've been down on his defensive work much of the year, but he remains an incredibly good and fearless punt returner. Either PR could have been 6, and completely changed the game.
...and that's it.
Because I'm a fan of the team and when I watch I want them to win. I also think it doesn't help Maye's development that much to go out and lose week after week. Also, I think it is more important for them to start showing some improvement on the field, both for Mayo and for Maye plus the rest of the guys who are going to be on the team next year and beyond than a 1-3 draft pick position difference.
Also, the players practice and play hard every week and literally put their well being on the line week after week and I am not going to root for them to lose for draft positioning.
Special shout out to Polk for another terrible game. Wolf can't draft receivers either, apparently.
I'm in the minority but I think AVP is fine/good.
I think most would agree that Maye has been a bright spot and looks the part and I think AVP deserves some (most?) of the credit for that. We are always going to crticize playcaller when plays don't work, it's the nature of being an OC. The runs for nothing or one yard are frustrating but I think the root cause is they can't block them rather than the play calls. To me, he tried a variety of runs. Sweeps, inside hand offs, tosses, zones, and there's nothing they could block effectively. With a rookie just off of concussion protocl they couldn't abandon it and just throw it 50 times. Esepecially when your receivers are Bourne, Douglas and Boutte.
I think most would agree that Maye has been a bright spot and looks the part and I think AVP deserves some (most?) of the credit for that. We are always going to crticize playcaller when plays don't work, it's the nature of being an OC. The runs for nothing or one yard are frustrating but I think the root cause is they can't block them rather than the play calls. To me, he tried a variety of runs. Sweeps, inside hand offs, tosses, zones, and there's nothing they could block effectively. With a rookie just off of concussion protocl they couldn't abandon it and just throw it 50 times. Esepecially when your receivers are Bourne, Douglas and Boutte.
On the one hand, anything for a better draft pick. On the other, I don't think it serves the team well to be such a complete struggling mess. And I don't think it is great that Drake Maye made a terrible, dare I say Mac-like, decision in OT.
Polk is the worst wide receiver we have ever drafted relative to position. Even fucking Hart Lee Dykes showed a glimmer of hope that he’s comfortable touching a professional size football once or twice.
There's no way that Kraft is canning Mayo after one season. Optics alone. There's a lot of evidence that owners dump bad rosters onto new hired black coaches then can them after one season. He's likely got a 3 year window and honestly it's only fair. Yeah, he's not good but he's got a terrible roster, a rookie quarterback with no offensive line or skill players. If they can improve the roster next season and they don't at least go .500 then I could see an argument. But besides the optics, it's really just not fair at all- regardless of who the head coach is.
Polk doesn't get separation. And on the rare occasions that he does find his way open, he drops the ball. He's the perfect storm of suck.
Still doesn't matter if nobody has time to make throws. If we had peak Jerry Rice on this team, we might win two more games, but it would just further highlight how hideous the OL is.
Still doesn't matter if nobody has time to make throws. If we had peak Jerry Rice on this team, we might win two more games, but it would just further highlight how hideous the OL is.
They are entrusting a complete rebuild to a coach who may be incompetent. That is a serious problem. We can judge Mayo on the things under his control and universally he has been judged to be bad at those things.
I'd add Henry, had a number of catches over the middle and took a beating, but kept competing. Special teams were pretty good outside the missed FG, and that was a 50+ try.
Run game and run defense are so bad right now, hard to win when that's the case.
I'm giving a special goat to Vederian Lowe on the incredible Maye play that sent the game to OT.
I watched the replay several times. Not only is he beat by a lineman who pressures Maye, but he then (a) gives up on the play, (b) almost runs into Maye as he scrambles, and (c) doesn't see the TWO Titans running full speed who almost take Maye down as he heaves the ball to Rham.
My God, Lowe is a complete waste of space. It's unfathomable that Wolf thought he was a competent tackle.
I watched the replay several times. Not only is he beat by a lineman who pressures Maye, but he then (a) gives up on the play, (b) almost runs into Maye as he scrambles, and (c) doesn't see the TWO Titans running full speed who almost take Maye down as he heaves the ball to Rham.
My God, Lowe is a complete waste of space. It's unfathomable that Wolf thought he was a competent tackle.
I'll have to rewatch the replay again but I believe on the last play Bourne simply fell as Maye was getting ready to throw which allowed his guy to drop off and make the pick. A Mac pick would be throwing a 5 yd pass across the field to a DB who easily jumped the route. Mac could only dream of throwing 40yd posts for picks.
I’m reasonably content to see what we have with Mayo. He seems like a good guy and is very intelligent. I may have preferred something else, but it’s what we got and I’m happy to give him a year to see if he matures.
With that said, the penalties. Well coached teams can go more than 3 fucking plays without a penalty on them. I haven’t done the necessary leg work to make this an informed post, but it sure felt to me like a shit ton of bone headed penalties.
I’m with @j44thor. I want as many good losses as possible. Point taken on Maye’s development but this team just has no fucking talent. We need to be picking high and we need to be picking often.
With that said, the penalties. Well coached teams can go more than 3 fucking plays without a penalty on them. I haven’t done the necessary leg work to make this an informed post, but it sure felt to me like a shit ton of bone headed penalties.
I’m with @j44thor. I want as many good losses as possible. Point taken on Maye’s development but this team just has no fucking talent. We need to be picking high and we need to be picking often.
So like Harry but without the elite blocking skills? Polk prefers to mess that up too. I have been witholding criticism of him because all rookies struggle at times but he looks completely lost.
I have no idea why Polk drops so many passes. He had stick-em for hands in college, and it was one of the biggest reasons people did like him coming out of Washington. When WRs transition to the pros, I expect separation to be much more difficult, since every CB they'll go up against is elite compared to college CBs. I also expect them to struggle with the offense and with life in the pros. But the hands? They should be the same, right? It's a mystery.
I would like to see Mayo coach some players with actual talent. Outside of a no brainer pick at #3, everyone else Eliot Wolf has brought in sucks. He’s the guy that should get replaced ASAP.
For as much of his life that Mayo has been around football, it seems really strange how bad he is at clock management at the end of halves.
Some guys can make the leap, and some cannot. I honestly believe it's not even worth trying to figure out why. Polk, like Mac and Harry, simply can't handle playing in the NFL, and like them will amount to nothing.
Might be as simple as the game being sped up and him losing concentration. But don't tell him that! He'll come back with a pithy reply. I hope all these WRs realize Maye is their gravy train if they can collectively get their heads out of their asses. They have a chance to build a rapport and career with a talented up and coming QB. Or they can keep failing and go into NFL transaction backwash.
You won't find a good GM willing to take on this crap show without the authority to replace and hire who he sees fit and rightfully so.
They took the easiest and of course cheapest path, regurgitated everyone from within except 1 guy who was basically the only one to answer the phone for the job. Heck Bill was not even out the door yet and Kraft had Mayo walking into Bill's office taking measurements probably. It's a shame with all the right moves Robert Kraft has made over the years, that he fumbled this entire ending of the dynasty about as bad as he possibly could have. To me it screams that his son is really the one running things today, it would make sense as a shift in thinking was clearly taking place after the 2018 season imo.
Mayo’s always been a defense guy, so he hasn’t had to do any clock management at the end of halves? Van Pelt is calling those shots though, right?
You are very certain that the if the Pats were in the market for a new GM that they would not get a good one. I am not going to debate hypotheticals but I imagine there are more than a handful of smart, creative young front-office types who would leap at the Patriots job if it opened up. There are only 32 of those seats out there and NE may have a good rookie QB to build around plus cap space.
This season is a lost cause and they aren't a fun watch but we are at peak negativity around these parts. The Pats rebuild may not ever get anywhere but for as dismal as things sound, if you told me they having a winning record this time next year, I can see it. I know others cannot but maybe hold open the thought that you don't know what is going to happen.
We expect rookie QBs to make mistakes. They all do. But we're optimistic about Maye because there are signs of greatness there in between the mistakes. In the same way, Mayo is making mistakes, but there are also glimmers of competence. The team hasn't quit on him, at the very least. Two of their losses were in OT. One bounce going differently in those games could have flipped the outcome, and how we're talking about someone taking a crappy roster to a 4-5 record. I'm not ready to say he's the long term answer, but it's way, way too soon to give up on him.
I looked at it again. Maybe Maye didn’t see the DB number 37 coming across to intercept the ball. How many times in the past have we heard an announcer say when Brady or Manning or any quarterback threw an interception “well maybe he just didn’t see the defender.”
View: https://twitter.com/BellinoZee/status/1853422417718251598
I posted it in the other thread. I disagree with this guy that Bourne falling is the cause of the pick, given the S is staring down the deep route and Maye, but him falling doesn't help. Takes away an option for Maye and the safety who already is stalking that pick has nothing to make him second guess it.
More and more I believe that penalties are a greater function of poor talent than poor coaching. Not that coaching can't help around the margins, but soooo many of the flags we get come from our mediocre-to-lousy players desperately trying to keep pace with their better competition.
I don't know how it works, but I would assume that in those situations, all the coaches are "in the chat" so to speak and listening to the conversation. While he hasn't been a head coach before, he's been a fly on the wall of one of greatest football coaches ever. Just hard to see how we could be as bad as he is at this.
I agree with you. To me, the S isn't really paying that much attention to Bourne when the trip occurs.
Looks like he is about to flip his hips, which would have made a difference, but I am just a twitter watcher.
Agreed. He's about to turn and head to the corner, sees Bourne fall, then heads for Boutte.
The issue is that Maye began throwing after Bourne started to fall.
These posts are how I feel.
I'm not that interested in a Game Goat thread. Many of these "Goats" won't be on the team -- I hope -- when they're next competitive, and I don't really need to read some version of one line posts every week that say "BB / Kraft / Mayo / Wolf" in some order (as justified as they are in my view).
I wonder if they could be like "Post Game Analysis" threads or something. Mike Reiss used to do 3 up / 3 down recaps after games I found helpful (not sure if he still does them since my consumption of post-game coverage has plummeted since 2019.... for some reason....).
I think I've written the same post a half dozen times in the last month and a half or so. But this is all that matters, i wrote the one below in early October:
"I am just going to repost what I did in the expectations thread last week:
If you accept the fact that losing may be in the best interests of the Patriots franchise moving forward, it makes what we're watching slightly more bearable.
The best QB on the roster is on the bench (folks can tell me there is no evidence of that, but I've seen Drake Maye play football and I've seen Jacoby play football, it's not close). I suspect we'll see Maye sooner than later. 3 of the first 4 games of the season have been on the road, and I'm guessing when Kraft starts seeing 10,000 empty seats at Gillette at a couple home games, the noise for Maye will get loud, from every direction."
Yesterday was basically a perfect result for the Pats future, IMO. Maye showed out again, given what limited tools he has around him, the team gathered more tape on players to decide who should stay and who should go in the offseason, and they lost, and have moved back into the top spot in the draft, which is IMO, the most valuable asset in the NFL besides a franchise QB.
Win, win, win...and lose while doing so.
He doesn't go into depth but Reiss does post a 3 up / 3 down as part of his post-game tweets. Here's yesterday where he had Marcus Jones, Keion White and Schooler as the up's and Baringer, Polk and the OL as the downs.
Bedard also does a weekly 3 up / 3 down on Tuesday on F&M.
View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1853185997070049349
Got it! I saw those and wasn't sure whether he still posted something more on the ESPN blog or wherever.
Anyway, I just think "Game Goat Thread" encourages only negative comments about who was responsible for losing that individual game -- and for a team in this stage of rebuild I'm just not too focused on that.
