Arsenal 2016-17: Get Ready For A Xhak-attack

coremiller

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Would you rather win the FA Cup and finish 5th or finish 4th (or finish 6th, but win the Europa League)?

The answer to that question tells you everything you need to know about Wenger's 6 FA Cup titles.
I actually think the answer to this question is not straightforward. It depends on the long-term trajectory and positioning of the club. If you can use the added prestige and revenue from CL qualification to hold onto your best players, recruit new top players, and build a side capable of competing for the EPL title or the European Cup, then finishing 4th is clearly better. But for a side like, say, Everton or Southampton that, even if they could squeak into 4th one year, have no realistic ambition of building a title-winning side? I think I'd rather have the silverware. The game is about glory, after all. There's a reason everyone made fun of Wenger for his "4th place is a trophy" comment.

The problem with Wenger's recent FA Cup titles is that Arsenal clearly fit into the first category. They should have been using their consistent CL qualification to build a potentially title-winning side. It now looks like Wenger wasted his chance to do that and if they can't hold onto Sanchez and Ozil there may not be an obvious path back for a while.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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The late-season run makes it a lot harder to evaluate Arsenal's season. 5th place is their worst finish under Wenger, but they finished with 75 points and a +33 GD, which is not really any better or worse than they've been in any of the last ten years, and four points better than their 2nd-place finish last year. The difference this year was that 1) the quality of the rest of the top 6 jumped enormously, and 2) their underlying performance metrics (e.g. xGD) declined significantly. They were not nearly as good this year, and only a superhuman season from Sanchez (24G, 10A) covered up a lot of the decline. If Sanchez leaves they could be really screwed -- where are the goals going to come from?

As MMS points out, Arsenal's big problem is that this team was built to peak the last two years, but didn't get over the hump, and it doesn't look like they have a plan for what to do next. The original plan, I think, was that the once-young, now-prime-age British talent (Walcott, Ramsey, Ox, Wilshere, Gibbs, etc.) was going to develop and carry the team forward, but none of those guys panned out as anything more than useful squad players for a side that wants to compete for titles. Arsene's biggest failure the last several years was probably to not cut bait with that development plan sooner and sell those players at the peak of their value. Part of the tolerance for not competing for the title in the 2009-13 period was that the club was building something for the future. That is no longer the case.

Arsenal can't afford to compete on transfers with Man U/City/Chelsea, which means to build a team they need to find budget diamonds and/or develop internally. And the internal development pipeline has dried up. The knock-on effect of their weaker development program has been very little in incoming transfer revenue. Wenger has failed to turn over the bottom half of his squad to generate revenue that could be used to buy more promising players. Arsenal's combined income from player sales the last two seasons is only 11m; the last four seasons combined is only 45m. For comparison, Spurs' transfer revenue the last two years is 119m and the last four years is 272m. The four-year number is boosted by the Bale transfer, but Spurs have also sold a bunch of mediocre players who aren't good enough to play for them for real money (they got 51m combined for Ryan Mason, Nacer Chadli, Andros Townsend, and Paulinho). Liverpool have done something similar, getting 28m last year for spare parts Jordan Ibe and Joe Allen, which allowed them to buy a guy like Wijnaldum who fits their team much better.

If Arsenal can hold onto Sanchez, Ozil, and Bellerin AND sign 2-3 more legit starters (which will require a net spend of >60m), they could compete for the title next year with some breaks, but they would probably be something like joint 4th favorites heading into the season even under that best-case scenario. If they lose Sanchez and Ozil and don't buy superstars to replace them, they will probably struggle to compete for a CL spot.

A year ago I thought Wenger-out was silly, because they probably had the best team in 2015-16 and the team appeared to be peaking, and it was worth giving Wenger one more shot at the title. Last summer, I picked them to win the title this season. But I think this season made clear that Wenger has missed his chance and is getting left behind by the more progressive clubs. He's never fully figured out how to cope with the new hyper-aggressive pressing tactics that Spurs, Liverpool, and City use. The lack of any discernible long-term strategic plan is the reason I think Arsenal should be moving on from Wenger.
Excellent post that sums up the situation very well.
 
I have to say...I wouldn't mind seeing Ozil move on. His performance in the cup final was vintage Ozil: lots of brilliant movement, some great passing, and a ton of careless finishing which made me want to tear my hair out. He's a lightning rod for criticism, and he's symptomatic of Wenger's Arsenal at its worst - it might suit both parties to reach an amicable parting of the ways and to reinvest his transfer fee, so that instead of buying the 2-3 legit starters Coremiller mentioned we buy 3-4 players instead.

Sanchez isn't perfect either, but he does have the drive and passion and the finishing skills to lift the team. He should get a massive offer to stay.
 

fletcherpost

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the last time a PL team won the Champions League was Chelsea in 2011-2012...that same team finished 6th in the league

unless an EPL team reaches the limits of FFP rules to build a deep team that runs the table in both league and European play, I think it'll be a long time before we see an English team win a league/European double
I think you half missed my point. Like most folks here I'm talking about CL and EPL results over the last 10 years. Of course it's tough to win the league and the Champion's League in the same year. I'm really just talking about Arsenal's relatively poor showing in both competitions year on year.

If Arsenal won the league and did bugger all in Europe the season would be a success. If they finnish 4th in the league and won the CL it's a success. If they finnish 4th and win the FA Cup it's okay, but the plaster needs changing. Finish fourth and no FA Cup and out in the last 16 of the CL, tongues are wagging. Finnish 5th and win the FA Cup, give Wenger two more years. Every other fan of every other team is laughing until they piss themselves.

Still, Wenger has stated the EPL is the target for next season. So i guess it's on.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I would love to see how any of you react if your team had actual problems.

I hope a Leyton Orient fan hits you with a pint glass.
 

coremiller

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I have to say...I wouldn't mind seeing Ozil move on. His performance in the cup final was vintage Ozil: lots of brilliant movement, some great passing, and a ton of careless finishing which made me want to tear my hair out. He's a lightning rod for criticism, and he's symptomatic of Wenger's Arsenal at its worst - it might suit both parties to reach an amicable parting of the ways and to reinvest his transfer fee, so that instead of buying the 2-3 legit starters Coremiller mentioned we buy 3-4 players instead.

Sanchez isn't perfect either, but he does have the drive and passion and the finishing skills to lift the team. He should get a massive offer to stay.
Ozil has only one year left on his contract, which means Arsenal probably can't get a big fee for him unless somebody like PSG or Monaco wants to overpay. I don't think any of the other obvious clubs (the rest of the EPL big 6 + Real/Barca/Bayern/Juve/Atletico) are going to buy him for a big fee. If they can't get that, they're probably better off letting him walk next year on a free rather than selling him for way less than an adequate replacement would cost. If he only brings in 10-15m, why bother?

FWIW, they're in the same position with Sanchez except that Sanchez probably has more value. But this goes back to the lack of strategic planning. Not only does the squad have holes, but they also lack valuable transfer assets as well. No well-run top club should ever let its top two players both get down to one year remaining on their contracts. They should have both been either extended or sold last year. That they weren't just indicates how all-in Wenger was on this season and how much of a failure the result was. Now they have no choice but to try to overpay both in wages to stay with contracts that will take them well past their prime years.
 

the1andonly3003

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Would you rather win the FA Cup and finish 5th or finish 4th (or finish 6th, but win the Europa League)?

The answer to that question tells you everything you need to know about Wenger's 6 FA Cup titles.
I actually think the answer to this question is not straightforward. It depends on the long-term trajectory and positioning of the club. If you can use the added prestige and revenue from CL qualification to hold onto your best players, recruit new top players, and build a side capable of competing for the EPL title or the European Cup, then finishing 4th is clearly better. But for a side like, say, Everton or Southampton that, even if they could squeak into 4th one year, have no realistic ambition of building a title-winning side? I think I'd rather have the silverware. The game is about glory, after all. There's a reason everyone made fun of Wenger for his "4th place is a trophy" comment.

The problem with Wenger's recent FA Cup titles is that Arsenal clearly fit into the first category. They should have been using their consistent CL qualification to build a potentially title-winning side. It now looks like Wenger wasted his chance to do that and if they can't hold onto Sanchez and Ozil there may not be an obvious path back for a while.
Man United finished in 5th last year, but won the FA Cup: LVG was sacked

I would love to see how any of you react if your team had actual problems.

I hope a Leyton Orient fan hits you with a pint glass.
Patriots missed the playoffs once between 2005 and 2014 Super Bowl victories. Should I have wanted BB fired?

nonetheless, I'm conflicted on this Arsene issue. at their best, this Arsenal team was really fun to watch the past 3 seasons

The story in both the league and group CL stages is the same - underprepared and overtrained, never taking supposed lesser opponents seriously, and an inability to adjust in-game. That's all down to the manager. In addition, they've failed to fill major holes over several seasons - first at GK, then central defense, now in midfield and at striker (I'll concede the latter is extremely difficult).

It's probably more difficult to win the PL than any other league in Europe. The only manager to adapt over several eras - and it kills me to admit this - is Fergie. I'll always appreciate what Arsene did, but he should have retired at least two years ago.
 
Ozil has only one year left on his contract, which means Arsenal probably can't get a big fee for him unless somebody like PSG or Monaco wants to overpay. I don't think any of the other obvious clubs (the rest of the EPL big 6 + Real/Barca/Bayern/Juve/Atletico) are going to buy him for a big fee. If they can't get that, they're probably better off letting him walk next year on a free rather than selling him for way less than an adequate replacement would cost. If he only brings in 10-15m, why bother?

FWIW, they're in the same position with Sanchez except that Sanchez probably has more value. But this goes back to the lack of strategic planning. Not only does the squad have holes, but they also lack valuable transfer assets as well. No well-run top club should ever let its top two players both get down to one year remaining on their contracts. They should have both been either extended or sold last year. That they weren't just indicates how all-in Wenger was on this season and how much of a failure the result was. Now they have no choice but to try to overpay both in wages to stay with contracts that will take them well past their prime years.
I would still sell Ozil for £15 million or thereabouts, because of the way he polarizes the club - both fans and teammates. When he's good, he's majestic and he makes Arsenal hum. But how often is he good? How many times this past season did he look like he'd rather be anywhere but on the pitch? I know sometimes he can look that way and still play majestically, but at worst he's almost like an infection that spreads through the team. Arsenal may have had more truly hopeless, listless performances this past season than they had in the rest of this decade combined, and Ozil never seems to be on the right side of the ledger in those matches. Sanchez has his own issues - the moody intensity, the mini-tantrums, the inability to recognize his own physical limitations - but he's always trying, and he always appears to be trying. I think Ozil is always trying too, but he doesn't always appear to be trying; that's fine in many sides, including Germany, but in this mentally fragile Arsenal team, it really isn't.

Completely agree with your general point about faulty strategic planning, of course.
 

coremiller

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I would still sell Ozil for £15 million or thereabouts, because of the way he polarizes the club - both fans and teammates. When he's good, he's majestic and he makes Arsenal hum. But how often is he good? How many times this past season did he look like he'd rather be anywhere but on the pitch? I know sometimes he can look that way and still play majestically, but at worst he's almost like an infection that spreads through the team. Arsenal may have had more truly hopeless, listless performances this past season than they had in the rest of this decade combined, and Ozil never seems to be on the right side of the ledger in those matches. Sanchez has his own issues - the moody intensity, the mini-tantrums, the inability to recognize his own physical limitations - but he's always trying, and he always appears to be trying. I think Ozil is always trying too, but he doesn't always appear to be trying; that's fine in many sides, including Germany, but in this mentally fragile Arsenal team, it really isn't.

Completely agree with your general point about faulty strategic planning, of course.
Meh, I think focusing on appearances is dumb, in the same way that I hate the argument in baseball that about "he never hustles down the line on popups."

On the strategic planning point, it goes beyond just Ozil and Sanchez. According to transfermarkt, here are the Arsenal players whose contracts expire either this summer or next: Sanogo, Cazorla, (2017); Macey, Jenkinson, Mertesacker, Ozil, Gibbs, Sanchez, Wilshere, Oxlade-Chamberlain, and Ramsey (2018). Why are they letting bit part players like Jenkinson and Gibbs hang around while their contracts run down and they lose value? Why have they not extended current first XI players like Ramsey and Ox? Then in 2019, Debuchy, Walcott, Opsina, Gabriel, Welbeck, Cech, Monreal, and Giroud's deals all expire.

For comparison, Spurs have zero players out of contract this summer, and the only player out of contract next summer is Michel Vorm. Vertonghen, CCV, and Dembele have two years left; everyone else has at least three. Liverpol have only Alexander Manniger and Lucas Leiva expiring this year, and only Can expiring next year. The only key players expiring in 2019 are Sturridge and Origi. Everyone else important (Clyne, Henderson, Matip, Firmino, Lallana, Lovren, Wijnaldum, Mane, Coutinho) is signed through at least 2020.
 
OMG...Alex Manninger is on the books at Liverpool? I feel old. (IIRC, he won a penalty shootout - over West Ham, maybe? - for Arsenal during our 1998 FA Cup run.)

FWIW, I agree with you that focusing on appearances is dumb, but Ozil seems to be the one player who divides the public (Arsenal supporters and otherwise) more than anyone else - possibly across the entire Premier League, not just at Arsenal. And given that we KNOW Wenger is going to become another huge lightning rod as soon as things go wrong next season, we could probably do without another one on the pitch. Also, this isn't baseball: players have to perform together on the pitch, and one player's appearance can have effects on his teammates' performances. (I've generally been pro-Ozil for most of his time at Arsenal, but something about how he played on Saturday - lauded by many pundits for his influence on the game, but so insouciant and profligate in front of goal - made me think it's time for him to go.)
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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On the strategic planning point, it goes beyond just Ozil and Sanchez. According to transfermarkt, here are the Arsenal players whose contracts expire either this summer or next: Sanogo, Cazorla, (2017); Macey, Jenkinson, Mertesacker, Ozil, Gibbs, Sanchez, Wilshere, Oxlade-Chamberlain, and Ramsey (2018). Why are they letting bit part players like Jenkinson and Gibbs hang around while their contracts run down and they lose value? Why have they not extended current first XI players like Ramsey and Ox? Then in 2019, Debuchy, Walcott, Opsina, Gabriel, Welbeck, Cech, Monreal, and Giroud's deals all expire.
It really boils down to the inherent deficiencies of the Manager-as-Dictator model, especially as that manager nears the end of his own career. Wenger has consciously set up a situation in which his own contract and that of many players would expire around the same time. And because he has kept the footballing operations of the club under such an iron grip, spawning so much uncertainty about what happens post-Wenger, players have had incentives to embrace that timing. If we had a real Director of Football tasked with doing what was best for the club, rather than what was best for Arsene Wenger, then we likely would have been much more proactive about signing players to new deals and those players could have done so with the assurance that there were structures in place to ensure a level of continuity when Wenger left. But Wenger has blocked all attempts to create a real Director of Football position at the club, demanding to exclusively retain control of all power over the footballing side of operations (for the first team at least). The fact that he is a kindly elder statesman that defends many laudable values in the footballing world has tended to blind many casual observers to the less savory reality that he is also a narcissistic megalomaniac who absolutely will choose his own interests over that of the club when they come into tension.
 

coremiller

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It really boils down to the inherent deficiencies of the Manager-as-Dictator model, especially as that manager nears the end of his own career. Wenger has consciously set up a situation in which his own contract and that of many players would expire around the same time. And because he has kept the footballing operations of the club under such an iron grip, spawning so much uncertainty about what happens post-Wenger, players have had incentives to embrace that timing. If we had a real Director of Football tasked with doing what was best for the club, rather than what was best for Arsene Wenger, then we likely would have been much more proactive about signing players to new deals and those players could have done so with the assurance that there were structures in place to ensure a level of continuity when Wenger left. But Wenger has blocked all attempts to create a real Director of Football position at the club, demanding to exclusively retain control of all power over the footballing side of operations (for the first team at least). The fact that he is a kindly elder statesman that defends many laudable values in the footballing world has tended to blind many casual observers to the less savory reality that he is also a narcissistic megalomaniac who absolutely will choose his own interests over that of the club when they come into tension.
How does Wenger benefit from having so many players' contracts expire around the same time as his?
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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How does Wenger benefit from having so many players' contracts expire around the same time as his?
I don't really know why he did it but he had a lot of control at key decision points and this is the situation he created. He made a big deal about signing the "British Core" of Wilshere, Ramsey, Ox, Gibbs, and Jenkinson to new deals at the same time in 2012 such that they would all expire simultaneously in summer 2017. Then when he negotiated his own last contract he had a substantial amount of power regarding the length and essentially chose to have it end at the same time in summer 2017. And in the meantime, of course, he negotiated deals with Ozil and Alexis that would both end in summer 2018. Ozil's was a standard five year contract but Alexis's was only for four years, which was a huge mistake in retrospect. And, most problematically, he didn't actually sign any of these players to new contracts during the 2013-2017 period to avoid the current situation. I'm not sure he was specifically motivated to have all these things happen simultaneously but he certainly didn't do much to avoid it occurring once the wheels were put into motion.

 

mikeford

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Would you rather win the FA Cup and finish 5th or finish 4th (or finish 6th, but win the Europa League)?

The answer to that question tells you everything you need to know about Wenger's 6 FA Cup titles.
I'd rather win the FA Cup than finish 2nd and not actually ever challenge for the title.

This is not an endorsement of Wenger but winning things is cooler than playing in the Champions league and getting curbstomped by teams who are actually serious about that competition. Under Wenger, Arsenal haven't been in at least 7 seasons.
 

Schnerres

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But you know that there is also a players´side in it. Most of the statements saying "why is Wenger/Arsenal not extending Özil (or Sanchez)?" or "huge mistake by Arsenal/Arsene!"...I don´t know about Sanchez, but in Özil´s case he wants his options. And no matter what he does - stay or go - he will sign a contract with more money included, just because he waited and waited and waited. If he signed last year, he definitely would have gotten less. Now, he can stay at Arsenal for more money or he leaves and collects a higher wage and a nice payment himself, as the transfer sum will be much lower (or free transfer, if he goes next year). For him, it´s about the money, period.
If you have an attractive club that´s collecting trophies (Real, Barca, Bayern, Juve) players are willing to sign early for less money, as they know what they will get at that club. If they will sit on the bench, there must be a solution, but for the really big guys, they just stay there. But why should Sanchez stay at Arsenal for a little less money without winning anything significant. Players want to go for the league title and go far in the CL. If you aren´t, something´s missing.
 

lars10

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I don't really know why he did it but he had a lot of control at key decision points and this is the situation he created. He made a big deal about signing the "British Core" of Wilshere, Ramsey, Ox, Gibbs, and Jenkinson to new deals at the same time in 2012 such that they would all expire simultaneously in summer 2017. Then when he negotiated his own last contract he had a substantial amount of power regarding the length and essentially chose to have it end at the same time in summer 2017. And in the meantime, of course, he negotiated deals with Ozil and Alexis that would both end in summer 2018. Ozil's was a standard five year contract but Alexis's was only for four years, which was a huge mistake in retrospect. And, most problematically, he didn't actually sign any of these players to new contracts during the 2013-2017 period to avoid the current situation. I'm not sure he was specifically motivated to have all these things happen simultaneously but he certainly didn't do much to avoid it occurring once the wheels were put into motion.

How many of these guys would you re-sign? I'd be tempted to let them all go. IMO the biggest weakness Wenger has is his stubbornness regarding Wilshire, Ramsey, Ox and Walcott. Since he's paid them so much money he has to play them or risk looking as though their contracts are mistakes. He also always thinks that he can count on players with injury histories and makes that mistake year after year.

I personally hope they retain Sanchez and Ozil, but I see little chance of that happening. I love the way Ozil passes and I suppose I have a blind spot for the way he looks like he isn't putting in effort. The player I've always had a problem with is Ramsey... because I feel as though he's constantly out of position on offense and defense, which I would imagine would be very frustrating for teammates.

What has happened to Lucas. What has been odd to me is Wenger buying Elneny, Xhaka and Lucas and then only playing them when he has absolutely has to. I can't imagine that it looks good for players being recruited by Arsenal how it doesn't seem as though there's much potential to start regularly. It seemed for a while that all Lucas would do when he saw the field was either score or get an assist, but immediately be back on the bench the next game.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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How many of these guys would you re-sign? I'd be tempted to let them all go. IMO the biggest weakness Wenger has is his stubbornness regarding Wilshire, Ramsey, Ox and Walcott. Since he's paid them so much money he has to play them or risk looking as though their contracts are mistakes. He also always thinks that he can count on players with injury histories and makes that mistake year after year.
I think in general you want to either sell or extend players before they enter the last 18 months of their contracts. With this group, my preference would probably have been to sell Jenkinson and Gibbs a few years ago. Neither of those guys have looked like long term solutions for a while and there was a time when Gibbs especially had some value as an occasional England international. I can't see any reason to have simply kept him around as a bench player running down his contract. Wilshere, Ramsey, and Ox are tougher situations, as they have all been much more in Wenger's plans. I think you can make the argument that he should have sold Ramsey once it became apparent that the team was only functional playing 4-2-3-1 with Cazorla in midfield. At that point, a smart manager cashes in on Ramsey and buys somebody else who fits the team better. But if you're not going to sell the players, at least keep extending them so that you don't risk losing them for nothing or selling them on the cheap because you have no leverage anymore.

I personally hope they retain Sanchez and Ozil, but I see little chance of that happening. I love the way Ozil passes and I suppose I have a blind spot for the way he looks like he isn't putting in effort. The player I've always had a problem with is Ramsey... because I feel as though he's constantly out of position on offense and defense, which I would imagine would be very frustrating for teammates.
I generally agree with all this. I do think that the 3-4-3 formation has been very good for Ramsey (as well as Xhaka and Oxlade-Chamberlain) and that this makes the situation a bit more complex going forward. Having 3 CBs means its less problematic for Ramsey to get caught out of position. The formation also takes pressure off the CM duo in terms of the buildup and handling pressing by opponents, since we end up advancing the ball through the wingbacks a lot. So Ramsey's biggest weaknesses (getting caught out of position and not being great at dealing with pressing) are obscured somewhat and he can play to his strengths (providing an attacking threat with late runs into the box and covering tons of ground while aggressively pressing the opponent).

What has happened to Lucas. What has been odd to me is Wenger buying Elneny, Xhaka and Lucas and then only playing them when he has absolutely has to. I can't imagine that it looks good for players being recruited by Arsenal how it doesn't seem as though there's much potential to start regularly. It seemed for a while that all Lucas would do when he saw the field was either score or get an assist, but immediately be back on the bench the next game.
I think Lucas was just brought in as cover and Wenger had any real investment in him. Its too bad because he has definitely been productive when he has played, as you note. I have read that he is very likely to be sold back to Spain this summer.