Astros acquire Christian Vázquez for Enmanuel Valdez and Wilyer Abreu.

KillerBs

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Nov 16, 2006
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Will be interesting to see what happens in short term with Valdez. Is he the starting 2b until Story comes back, replacing Yolmer? It would be somewhat telling if they do not trust him with that assignment.

Also cannot help but wonder if he has been acquired as a possibility to play 2b next year in a post-Xander world.

With Xander and Story in the fold, you wonder where he would play in 2023 and beyond. He looks like he may have super sub potential, but from little I can gather appears unplayable in CF or RF. Maybe he rakes enough to DH down the road?
 

Cesar Crespo

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Will be interesting to see what happens in short term with Valdez. Is he the starting 2b until Story comes back, replacing Yolmer? It would be somewhat telling if they do not trust him with that assignment.

Also cannot help but wonder if he has been acquired as a possibility to play 2b next year in a post-Xander world.

With Xander and Story in the fold, you wonder where he would play in 2023 and beyond. He looks like he may have super sub potential, but from little I can gather appears unplayable in CF or RF. Maybe he rakes enough to DH down the road?
Hopefully where he plays long term is actually an issue. It means the Sox got a quality return and not a AAAA player.
 

Mystic Merlin

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So they didn't disrespect him and trade him out of nowhere and hang him out to dry with the media? Shocking.

I'm sure they didn't want it to leak while he was still out there, but they can't control that.
I read Abraham’s Globe article on the trade last night, and I swore that he criticized the team for letting Vazquez take BP. When I went back to his article, that comment isn’t there anymore, with no mention of a correction.

I might be going nuts, though, it may not have been there at all.
 

joe dokes

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The Sox radio broadcast was actually pretty critical throughout the game of how it played out.
Will Flemming treats a first-pitch ball in the 9th inning with a 10-run lead as a crime against humanity.
 

djbayko

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As far as this trade deadline goes, that's the best news that anyone has read. Doesn't mean that he'll end up back here for sure, but I'm glad that he's talking about being open to it on the day after he was traded.
Yeah, how often do you hear a player actually say that?
 

TheYellowDart5

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For what it's worth, the FanGraphs depth charts rest-of-season projections post-trade have Vazquez at .258/.307/.387, .304 wOBA, 0.6 WAR, with a Plawecki/McGuire/Wong/Hernandez quartet checking in at 0.8, though half that figure is Plawecki, who's currently at -0.5 all by himself, so that's an optimistic look. ZiPS goes the other way, with Plawecki/McGuire/Wong (no Hernandez) at 0.6 and Vazquez at 0.9. Either way, it's a difference of maybe half a win in total, so by those metrics, the move should have no real on-field impact over the rest of the year.
 

scottyno

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Dec 7, 2008
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Just look at how demoralized that entire team is celebrating after they just beat one of the best teams in baseball 2 straight.

2-0 since Bloom quit on them, or the remaining players quit on the team, I'm not sure which the narrative is.
 

scottyno

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For what it's worth, the FanGraphs depth charts rest-of-season projections post-trade have Vazquez at .258/.307/.387, .304 wOBA, 0.6 WAR, with a Plawecki/McGuire/Wong/Hernandez quartet checking in at 0.8, though half that figure is Plawecki, who's currently at -0.5 all by himself, so that's an optimistic look. ZiPS goes the other way, with Plawecki/McGuire/Wong (no Hernandez) at 0.6 and Vazquez at 0.9. Either way, it's a difference of maybe half a win in total, so by those metrics, the move should have no real on-field impact over the rest of the year.
They're expecting a return closer to his career norm for Plawecki, is that realistic? Who knows
 

Just a bit outside

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I don’t think the difference is dramatic but it wouldn’t surprise me if the Sox lose a couple extra games because other teams are able to run wild on Plawecki. I know the game is not being played that way but Plawecki’s arm is terrible and I think other teams will take advantage.
 

Sin Duda

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I don’t think the difference is dramatic but it wouldn’t surprise me if the Sox lose a couple extra games because other teams are able to run wild on Plawecki. I know the game is not being played that way but Plawecki’s arm is terrible and I think other teams will take advantage.
Well, he was 50/50 Tuesday vs. the 'Stros. 1 SB, 1 CS.
 

scottyno

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I don’t think the difference is dramatic but it wouldn’t surprise me if the Sox lose a couple extra games because other teams are able to run wild on Plawecki. I know the game is not being played that way but Plawecki’s arm is terrible and I think other teams will take advantage.
Why do you assume Plawecki is going to start once Mcguire has had a few days to learn the pitching staff?
 

grimshaw

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For what it's worth, the FanGraphs depth charts rest-of-season projections post-trade have Vazquez at .258/.307/.387, .304 wOBA, 0.6 WAR, with a Plawecki/McGuire/Wong/Hernandez quartet checking in at 0.8, though half that figure is Plawecki, who's currently at -0.5 all by himself, so that's an optimistic look. ZiPS goes the other way, with Plawecki/McGuire/Wong (no Hernandez) at 0.6 and Vazquez at 0.9. Either way, it's a difference of maybe half a win in total, so by those metrics, the move should have no real on-field impact over the rest of the year.
I tend to look at catchers as having their own special sauce other than trying to evaluate them via WAR. For whatever reason the Sox have dangled Vazquez several times since Bloom took over, and even with his above average bat at the position they must not like something else not obviously measurable about his game. You don't just shop your catcher with nothing set in the pipeline.

It does seem damning to me about Wong that they feel McGuire is worth a spot over him - at least at this point. It's understandable they wouldn't want to throw Ronaldo Hernandez out there, but at least Wong has played with their younger pitching and tasted the bigs a few times.

I would also look at Valdez as a potential upgrade over whomever they deem their last guy off the bench. Could he be worse than Yolmer Sanchez? Even if he produces like Michael Chavis that's better. Maybe they add a couple wins from all their moves combined.

It also makes more sense now that the Sox added Jose Peraza because Yolmer Sanchez is likely a DFA very soon and someone has to play in AAA.
 
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chawson

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I tend to look at catchers as having their own special sauce other than trying to evaluate them via WAR. For whatever reason the Sox have dangled Vazquez several times since Bloom took over, and even with his above average bat at the position they must not like something else not obviously measurable about his game. You don't just shop your catcher with nothing in the pipeline.

It does seem damning to me about Wong that they feel McGuire is worth a spot over him - at least at this point. It's understandable they wouldn't want to throw Ronaldo Hernandez out there, but at least Wong has played with their younger pitching and tasted the bigs a few times.
Digging into McGuire a bit more, his glove rates quite a bit higher than I realized. He’s +10 defensive runs saved in 922 innings over the last two years. Vázquez is +11 in 1695 innings, nearly twice as many.

The bat may be hard to stomach but McGuire seems as good a defensive catcher as Jacob Stallings, who Bloom tried to trade for last winter, and an elite defender overall. Incidentally, Stallings is having a miserable year in Miami, where both his fielding and hitting have completely tanked.
 

Archer1979

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For what it's worth, the Sox didn't burn any bridges with Vaz on the way out. So much so that Vaz might want to come when he hits FA:

https://www.yahoo.com/video/christian-vazquez-makes-interesting-future-213103926.html

In the middle of his answer he brought up the possibility of returning to the Red Sox.

"To the fans, I'm going to miss you guys a lot," Vázquez told reporters. "It was fun. It was electric. Every game in Fenway Park -- a special place to play. You never know, I’m going into free agency next year. You never know. ... Let's see what happens. It's a business, like I said before. But I love you guys. You were very good to me and my family, and I'm going to miss you guys."
 
Baseball America has Valdez as HOU's 12th best prospect in their midseason update after OPSing 1.016 across AA and AAA this year at 23. Meanwhile Abreu is a great athlete (23 SBs) that already plays a major league center field (unlike, say, Jarren Duran) so provides 4th outfielder floor with offensive upside (.858 OPS at AA at age 23). Seems like a solid haul and probably two guys that the scouting department were targeting in a relatively weak system.
The biggest load of bullshit here (and it's pretty much all hyperbolic spin) is the implication that the Sox FO somehow are able to spot talent that the parent organization and neutral evaluators and writers somehow are missing.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The biggest load of bullshit here (and it's pretty much all hyperbolic spin) is the implication that the Sox FO somehow are able to spot talent that the parent organization and neutral evaluators and writers somehow are missing.
You do realize that actual talent evaluators outside of the Red Sox have basically all said Valdez's bat would carry him to the majors, right? Oh, you ignore positive information.. I forgot.

But keep doing you. Ignore every thing and stick to old scouting reports. 28th and 29th? OMG.

It's not hard to shit all over a trade when you use information that is 4-5 months old and you refuse to read what neutral evaluators have said.

edit: Other teams would be really upset to get Rafeala in a deal. He's like the Sox 20th prospect! We all know things can't change during the course of a season.
 
You do realize that actual talent evaluators outside of the Red Sox have basically all said Valdez's bat would carry him to the majors, right? Oh, you ignore positive information.. I forgot.

But keep doing you. Ignore every thing and stick to old scouting reports. 28th and 29th? OMG.

It's not hard to shit all over a trade when you use information that is 4-5 months old and you refuse to read what neutral evaluators have said.

edit: Other teams would be really upset to get Rafeala in a deal. He's like the Sox 20th prospect! We all know things can't change during the course of a season.
So it's okay to for folks to be declaring Valdez as an immediate starter at 2B and/or replacement at DH for Martinez based on a half season of suddenly finding his power stroke after five seasons of un-tiered mediocrity, but not to express a healthy skepticism about the significance of those 173 AAA PAs (not to mention his apparent inability to play any defensive position)?
 

Cesar Crespo

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So it's okay to for folks to be declaring Valdez as an immediate starter at 2B and/or replacement at DH for Martinez based on a half season of suddenly finding his power stroke after five seasons of un-tiered mediocrity, but to express a healthy skepticism about the significance of those 173 AAA PAs (not to mention his apparent inability to play any defensive position)?
That's not what you did. You said a bunch of nonsense that can be disproved just by reading this thread. Other talent evaluators outside of the Red Sox like Valdez.

And you are still spreading false information. Have you even bothered to look at the player's profile? It is not a half season of finding his power stroke. He hit 26 HRs last year and had an ISO of .279. If you read this thread, you would have read scouting reports that mentioned he showed much improved power since Covid. That is not half a season.

I guess the 205 PA he had in AA this year with an OPS of 1.112 also doesn't count. Just the 173 PA in AAA, where he is also mashing .296/.347/.560.

You are spewing nonsense and not fact checking anything.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=valdez000enm

If you think he's not ready to fill in at 2b/DH then say that and provide an argument for it. Don't say things that are factually incorrect.
 

Cesar Crespo

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As far as CS%

For his career, McGuire is at 33/109, 30%. 31% this year, 35% last year.

Vaz is at 35% for his career, but is at 30% this year and was at 30% in 20 and 25% in 21.

Probably a wash.

edit: Plawecki is at 8% this year, 8% last year. 20% career.
 
That's not what you did. You said a bunch of nonsense that can be disproved just by reading this thread. Other talent evaluators outside of the Red Sox like Valdez.

And you are still spreading false information. Have you even bothered to look at the player's profile? It is not a half season of finding his power stroke. He hit 26 HRs last year and had an ISO of .279. If you read this thread, you would have read scouting reports that mentioned he showed much improved power since Covid. That is not half a season.

I guess the 205 PA he had in AA this year with an OPS of 1.112 also doesn't count. Just the 173 PA in AAA, where he is also mashing .296/.347/.560.

You are spewing nonsense and not fact checking anything.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=valdez000enm

If you think he's not ready to fill in at 2b/DH then say that and provide an argument for it. Don't say things that are factually incorrect.
Stop your righteous hyperbole. I've read the same evaluations that you have and looked at the same stats that you have and have yet to find any report that suggests he can play defense at the major league level. The most positive report I saw called him a, "hit-first second baseman." I hate this deal with every fiber of my being. For once, just accept that there are alternative viewpoints that may not fall in line with your own.
 

JM3

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The world has gone mad overnight, apparently ...
I don't know if you've met Yolmer Sanchez but he's hitting .063 this season (2 for 32) with an OPS+ of...-33.

Obviously now that Devers is back there's less urgency to start people who aren't Yolmer & I'm fine with whatever developmental curve the team chooses to follow.

You seem generally grumpy.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I've read the same evaluations that you have and looked at the same stats that you have and have yet to find any report that suggests he can play defense at the major league level. The most positive report I saw called him a, "hit-first second baseman." I hate this deal with every fiber of my being.
So say that. That's an actual argument.

Yeah, he has no position and is going to have to rake to have any value. But he's been hitting for power for 792 PA. Not 173. Other talent evaluators do like him, otherwise he wouldn't have jumped from 29th to 12th.
 

pjheff

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Why do you assume Plawecki is going to start once Mcguire has had a few days to learn the pitching staff?
Cora said that they would split time which he was quick to clarify did not mean a strict platoon.
 

dhappy42

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Vazquez asked Cora if he could take BP in a Red Sox uniform one last time even though they both knew (but couldn't tell anyone yet) that he'd been traded.
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/08/christian-vazquez-asked-alex-cora-for-one-last-bp-in-a-red-sox-uniform-and-the-manager-obliged-of-course-youre-part-of-the-family.html

Vazquez told Cora from the Astros bench that there was something wrong with Bello yesterday.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/christian-v-c3-a1zquez-made-sure-alex-cora-knew-brayan-bello-was-injured-from-astros-dugout/ar-AA10hxVo
 

johnlos

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Aug 22, 2014
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The biggest load of bullshit here (and it's pretty much all hyperbolic spin) is the implication that the Sox FO somehow are able to spot talent that the parent organization and neutral evaluators and writers somehow are missing.
No one is saying anything about missing. Different teams have different evaluations of players. My point is that people like to say "oh the Sox only got the 18th and 19th best prospects in the Astros system what a bad haul". But almost certainly the Sox target certain guys for certain reasons.