August / September NHL News and Notes

LogansDad

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Nov 15, 2006
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Alamogordo
David Backes signed a one day deal with St Louis and retired as a Blue. Mixed results in Boston, but a pretty solid career all around.
 

cshea

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Not news here, but a recommendation for some hockey content. Netflix's Untold: Crime and Penalties is a very good documentary about the Danbury Trashers UHL existence.

View: https://youtu.be/nYRphTBKc44


My father gave me the recommendation and I can't believe I hadn't heard this story before watching it. Best way to describe it is The Sopranos meets Slap Shot.
 

baggy5

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Jul 14, 2005
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Watched Crime & Penalties the other night. Hadn't heard the story either. It's outstanding and well worth the time.
 

cshea

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I think they need to settle the medical side before they can pursue a trade. I don't know how they do that. He wants an artificial disc replacement, the team wants a fusion. They are both entrenched in their positions. I don't even know who is right or wrong. I strongly believe the player should be allowed to make their own medical decisions, but my understanding is the CBA gives the team the final call on treatment. It also seems reasonable to me that the Sabres medical staff is hesitant about him getting a procedure that's never been done on an NHL player. There is no meet in the middle option here like a financial negotiation, so I've got no clue how they move this along unless one side caves.

I don't think the Sabres can trade him until all that is sorted out now. I think this season is lost. No clue what the recovery time is on artificial disc replacement, but I'd imagine it's not a short-term thing. From a Friedman article late last season, sounds like a 3-4 month thing citing a couple of UFC fighters who have had it. The fusion surgery sounds like what Tiger Woods had done in 2017. That alone is a pretty scary thought for Eichel, but Tiger's recovery was 6 months. He's older and a golfer not a hockey player so who the hell knows, but I would assume at this point Eichel's year is done regardless of the procedure he ultimately gets.

On the plus side, as each day passes he's one day closer to having the old NMC!
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Apr 12, 2001
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Honestly, I'm not sure where the ROI on this is for the advertisers. It took me a month, maybe more, to realize that GE was not the advertiser on the Celtics jersey last year. It just fades into the action for me. This doesn't mean that I like them, I don't, but I don't even notice the ads on jerseys or sweaters anymore.

These patches are even going to be more of a blur in hockey.
 

Red Right Ankle

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Jul 2, 2006
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Honestly, I'm not sure where the ROI on this is for the advertisers. It took me a month, maybe more, to realize that GE was not the advertiser on the Celtics jersey last year. It just fades into the action for me. This doesn't mean that I like them, I don't, but I don't even notice the ads on jerseys or sweaters anymore.

These patches are even going to be more of a blur in hockey.
Yeah, no way you are going to see them much during the run of play, just during closeups and interviews. Maybe the value of this is in getting it onto jerseys that fans buy, so you end up with people advertising you on their chests?
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Apr 12, 2001
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Yeah, no way you are going to see them much during the run of play, just during closeups and interviews. Maybe the value of this is in getting it onto jerseys that fans buy, so you end up with people advertising you on their chests?
I know what you're saying and it makes a lot of sense, but I don't think I've seen too many jerseys with the ad patches on them. But it's not like I'm hanging out with a bunch of people in NBA jerseys. They tend not to look so great on 45-year-old+ guys. We're too lumpy.

Maybe hockey will be different?
 

Red Right Ankle

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It's been a while since I've been to the Garden, but assuming the audience hasn't changed much, yeah, gonna be a lot of lumpy human billboards...
 

burstnbloom

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Jul 12, 2005
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Honestly, I'm not sure where the ROI on this is for the advertisers. It took me a month, maybe more, to realize that GE was not the advertiser on the Celtics jersey last year. It just fades into the action for me. This doesn't mean that I like them, I don't, but I don't even notice the ads on jerseys or sweaters anymore.

These patches are even going to be more of a blur in hockey.
This has been the rub in advertising for 100 years. It's difficult to measure the effect of your investment dollars (except digital marketing now with the explosion of ad tech). I heard on chiclets that the NBA patches made the league $75m dollars - so its definitely worth doing it, even if its 1/4 that price. Every dollar helps with the salary cap.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
Apr 12, 2001
21,834
This has been the rub in advertising for 100 years. It's difficult to measure the effect of your investment dollars (except digital marketing now with the explosion of ad tech). I heard on chiclets that the NBA patches made the league $75m dollars - so its definitely worth doing it, even if its 1/4 that price. Every dollar helps with the salary cap.
Right. I understand that it makes the NBA money, but what about GE for example? Now that they're not advertising on the Celtics jerseys, what did that cost them? Obviously you can't quantify that. It didn't promote awareness, I'm sure we all heard of GE prior to the patch and we know about GE now. And I get most advertising isn't there to make you aware of the company, it's more to keep their names in the conversation. If I was the ad director at one of these bigger companies, I just don't see how this is something that isn't a complete waste of cash.
 

burstnbloom

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Right. I understand that it makes the NBA money, but what about GE for example? Now that they're not advertising on the Celtics jerseys, what did that cost them? Obviously you can't quantify that. It didn't promote awareness, I'm sure we all heard of GE prior to the patch and we know about GE now. And I get most advertising isn't there to make you aware of the company, it's more to keep their names in the conversation. If I was the ad director at one of these bigger companies, I just don't see how this is something that isn't a complete waste of cash.
Sure- I understand your position. I'm just saying the same can be said about almost ALL advertising. That's why big companies have historically spread their marketing dollars all over the place. This is just another super bowl commercial where you remember the stupid tag line but not what they sell.
 

Bread of Yaz

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Mar 12, 2019
181
Honestly, I'm not sure where the ROI on this is for the advertisers. It took me a month, maybe more, to realize that GE was not the advertiser on the Celtics jersey last year. It just fades into the action for me. This doesn't mean that I like them, I don't, but I don't even notice the ads on jerseys or sweaters anymore.

These patches are even going to be more of a blur in hockey.
FYI the owner Ted Leonsis is trying to bring gambling into the arena so I suspect the Caesars ads are of a piece with that effort
 

Jody Reed's 1988 Mustache

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Jun 27, 2006
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I think they need to settle the medical side before they can pursue a trade. I don't know how they do that. He wants an artificial disc replacement, the team wants a fusion. They are both entrenched in their positions. I don't even know who is right or wrong. I strongly believe the player should be allowed to make their own medical decisions, but my understanding is the CBA gives the team the final call on treatment. It also seems reasonable to me that the Sabres medical staff is hesitant about him getting a procedure that's never been done on an NHL player. There is no meet in the middle option here like a financial negotiation, so I've got no clue how they move this along unless one side caves.

I don't think the Sabres can trade him until all that is sorted out now. I think this season is lost. No clue what the recovery time is on artificial disc replacement, but I'd imagine it's not a short-term thing. From a Friedman article late last season, sounds like a 3-4 month thing citing a couple of UFC fighters who have had it. The fusion surgery sounds like what Tiger Woods had done in 2017. That alone is a pretty scary thought for Eichel, but Tiger's recovery was 6 months. He's older and a golfer not a hockey player so who the hell knows, but I would assume at this point Eichel's year is done regardless of the procedure he ultimately gets.

On the plus side, as each day passes he's one day closer to having the old NMC!
I just saw this post and thought I would add some context since it's rare I can ever add something to the board from an area of expertise. It seems like both sides agree he need surgery but they're just differing on whether to get a disc replacement vs. fusion. The surgeries are basically identical in terms of the actual mechanics of getting there and removing the disc. Taking the disc out is what actually provides the pain relief, presuming it's pushing on one of the cervical nerves or the spinal cord itself. The question is what to do with that empty space once you take out the entire disc.

Traditionally, you place cadaver bone and then place a couple of screws into the bones above and below the disc space along with a plate to kind of keep everything in place. It usually takes about 6 months but can be as long as a couple of years for that cadaver bone to fuse with the bones above and below (for non-world class athletes). The screws and plate are designed to keep everything in place while the bones fuse together. Once everything fuses, it's basically like one large block of bone. That's good from the standpoint of returning to play and safety. The downside of it, especially in a young guy, is that it likely biomechanically stresses the joints at the cervical levels above and below the fused level. This can lead to an acceleration in arthritis at those joints, leading to more surgery down the road as other discs start to herniate, arthritis develops, etc. It's called 'adjacent segment' or 'adjacent level' disease. Cervical disc replacement was developed to maintain mobility at the operated level with the idea that this would lead to lower rates of re-operation and adjacent level disease. There are a couple of randomized, controlled trials and the evidence is mixed as to whether disc replacement actually lead to lower rates of reoperation and adjacent level disease compared to fusion though basically everyone agrees that they do appear to preserve motion.

So my completely speculative guess is that Eichel perceives that a disc replacement is in his best long term interest as he wants to preserve motion at that level and give himself the best chance to avoid future surgery. The team wants to perform the 'proven' surgery that also theoretically is safest from a return to play standpoint as there is essentially no risk to him once that bone is fused. I can say that, in anyone under 50, I typically don't even think about performing a fusion anymore as even the theoretical benefit to preserving motion makes much sense than fusing someone who has another 40 years to develop more cervical disease.
 

cshea

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Nov 15, 2006
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I just saw this post and thought I would add some context since it's rare I can ever add something to the board from an area of expertise. It seems like both sides agree he need surgery but they're just differing on whether to get a disc replacement vs. fusion. The surgeries are basically identical in terms of the actual mechanics of getting there and removing the disc. Taking the disc out is what actually provides the pain relief, presuming it's pushing on one of the cervical nerves or the spinal cord itself. The question is what to do with that empty space once you take out the entire disc.

Traditionally, you place cadaver bone and then place a couple of screws into the bones above and below the disc space along with a plate to kind of keep everything in place. It usually takes about 6 months but can be as long as a couple of years for that cadaver bone to fuse with the bones above and below (for non-world class athletes). The screws and plate are designed to keep everything in place while the bones fuse together. Once everything fuses, it's basically like one large block of bone. That's good from the standpoint of returning to play and safety. The downside of it, especially in a young guy, is that it likely biomechanically stresses the joints at the cervical levels above and below the fused level. This can lead to an acceleration in arthritis at those joints, leading to more surgery down the road as other discs start to herniate, arthritis develops, etc. It's called 'adjacent segment' or 'adjacent level' disease. Cervical disc replacement was developed to maintain mobility at the operated level with the idea that this would lead to lower rates of re-operation and adjacent level disease. There are a couple of randomized, controlled trials and the evidence is mixed as to whether disc replacement actually lead to lower rates of reoperation and adjacent level disease compared to fusion though basically everyone agrees that they do appear to preserve motion.

So my completely speculative guess is that Eichel perceives that a disc replacement is in his best long term interest as he wants to preserve motion at that level and give himself the best chance to avoid future surgery. The team wants to perform the 'proven' surgery that also theoretically is safest from a return to play standpoint as there is essentially no risk to him once that bone is fused. I can say that, in anyone under 50, I typically don't even think about performing a fusion anymore as even the theoretical benefit to preserving motion makes much sense than fusing someone who has another 40 years to develop more cervical disease.
That's good information. Thank you. Seems like you'd advise for the disc replacement then?
 

Jody Reed's 1988 Mustache

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That's good information. Thank you. Seems like you'd advise for the disc replacement then?
In my patients, yes.

In him, I can see both sides of the coin. I personally would probably be fine with doing it since that is what he prefers and he assumes the risk of playing with the disc replacement. I can also see the personal, professional risk involved in doing the surgery and then having a bad outcome down the road with a famous person, so I have no idea what I'd actually do.