Starting Bard was almost everybody's idea but Valentine's. He acquiesced, although he was desperate for a closer. There were a few Cassandras on this board, but I wasn't one of them - I thought he'd make a fine #2 starter. Instead, it took his pitching motion, already unstable in 2011, straight to hell. He didn't have the build or the strength to throw 100 pitches a game, limiting the number of times he could throw the slider, his best pitch, and putting him into high-stress, disastrous game situations far too early. It's not just sad, it's a tragedy.Green Monster said:Not sure who gets the credit (Cherington, Valentine, Luchinno, ??) but the idea of moving Bard to the starting rotation is now officially a total disaster. Very sad. He was one of the top set-up guys in the game.
Red(s)HawksFan said:
I don't think DFA is revocable. They can't un-designate him once he's been designated. If someone claims him when he is on waivers, he's gone. If he clears, the team can outright him to a minor league roster (without the player's consent if he has less than 5 years of service time and hasn't been outrighted before). From what Farrell told reporters today, it sounds like outrighting him is their ideal plan...
@ScottLauber: "Farrell on decision to DFA Daniel Bard to open 40-man spot: "Not an easy one." Said he hopes #RedSox will be able to retain Bard"
http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7599981/boston-red-sox-pitcher-daniel-bard-transitions-setup-man-starterWhen the 2011 season ended, Bard spoke with his agent about a possible role change in his career. In turn, the agent spoke with Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington about it. At the time, the future status of Papelbon was still unknown.
Eventually Bard and Cherington exchanged thoughts and ideas about the pitcher's career, but it wasn't until the Red Sox hired Bobby Valentine as the club's new manager that Bard's new role was set in stone.
Valentine and Bard spoke on the phone, and during that conversation the manager simply asked the 26-year-old what he wanted to do.
"I told him, 'I want to start or close and I think I can do either one well. It's whatever you guys think will help the team.' It turns out they think starting is the way to go."
dcmissle said:This isn't Billy Martin destroying four young starters in Oakland by riding them like mules. But it's not good either.
Yes. Daniel Bard.HomeRunBaker said:Glad we're moving on here from Bard. To me this was a no-brainer. Has any player ever returned from losing the ability to throw a baseball accurately?
Sprowl said:Starting Bard was almost everybody's idea but Valentine's. He acquiesced, although he was desperate for a closer. There were a few Cassandras on this board, but I wasn't one of them - I thought he'd make a fine #2 starter. Instead, it took his pitching motion, already unstable in 2011, straight to hell. He didn't have the build or the strength to throw 100 pitches a game, limiting the number of times he could throw the slider, his best pitch, and putting him into high-stress, disastrous game situations far too early. It's not just sad, it's a tragedy.
Alas, poor Daniel! We knew him, SoSHers; a pitcher of infinite speed, of most excellent velocity; he hath borne us on his back a thousand times; and now, how irrevocable in assignment it is! My gorge rises at it. Here hung those sliders at which batters once flailed. Where be your sinkers now? Your easy delivery? Your flashes of dominance, that were wont to set the game thread on a roar?
That's exactly why I said "if they somehow could." Which they can't if they claim him, but when he is unemployed this offseason, someone will sign him to a minor league deal and try to fix him.mabrowndog said:
If anyone claims him off waivers and keeps him on the 40-man over the winter, it won't be a "cheap flyer." He'll be 3rd-year arb eligible, and even the shittiest of players get raises so he'd be due to make around $2 million.
soxhop411 said:would the Cubs put a claim in on Bard?
I was about to ask for that to be posted.Greg29fan said:Thanks for the memories Daniel
How did Martinez even get a glove on it?brandonchristensen said:I was about to ask for that to be posted.
Thanks for the happy memories, Dan.
Most posters seem to assume that Bard is gone. But he's only gone if he's claimed - otherwise he's simply re-assigned. I haven't seen any indication that the Sox are doing this to get rid of him - just to free a 40 man spot.nattysez said:For the reasons stated above, I can't imagine any team is going to claim him. He'll become a FA and teams will try to woo him with a ml deal. The Cubs are a natural landing place given their FO's history with Bard (and fixing Bard the first time) and their desperate need for more bullpen arms. I was thinking that Bard should seek out whoever fixed Andrew Miller, but this article credits Valentine and McClure with doing that, and they're both out of baseball right now, as far as I can tell.
You are right. Tim Britton suggests at the end of this piece that if he's not claimed, Sox will keep him: http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20130902-the-fall-of-daniel-bard.ece.BCsMightyJoeYoung said:Most posters seem to assume that Bard is gone. But he's only gone if he's claimed - otherwise he's simply re-assigned. I haven't seen any indication that the Sox are doing this to get rid of him - just to free a 40 man spot.
nattysez said:You are right. Tim Britton suggests at the end of this piece that if he's not claimed, Sox will keep him: http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20130902-the-fall-of-daniel-bard.ece.
Thanks for the correction.
HriniakPosterChild said:
[That link seems broken]
In dollars and cents, how expensive will it be for the Sox to keep him next year (assuming he does clear)?
No clue, that's probably the most unhittable pitch ever thrown.edoug said:How did Martinez even get a glove on it?
trekfan55 said:I think that Bard does not have the service time to refuse the assignment. So if he does clear waivers he can be outrighted to AAA. From what I understand, players who can refuse such assignment are the ones that become FA's if they exercise that right.
Given his salary and his status, he would be an expensive minor league/non 40 man roster pitcher, but he'd still "belong" to the Sox if he clears waivers.
If he gets through waivers and the Red Sox take him back and outright him to the minors, he would be eligible for free agency at the end of the season because he was outrighted as a player with three-plus years of service.
Most players would accept the assignment and then become a free agent. If that happens, Bard could negotiate a major league or minor league deal with the Red Sox or anyone else. If he gets a major league deal, it would likely be minimal.
trekfan55 said:So, if he clears waivers and is outrighted he becomes an FA, but then the arbitration figures "reset" and teams can offer him anything?
What about him? His throwing problems aren't remotely close to being grouped with those who lost their careers due to a mental block of throwing a baseball. Who was the catcher that couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher? He's another one whose career ended due to "Steve Blass Disease."twibnotes said:What about Salty
HomeRunBaker said:What about him? His throwing problems aren't remotely close to being grouped with those who lost their careers due to a mental block of throwing a baseball. Who was the catcher that couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher? He's another one whose career ended due to "Steve Blass Disease."
Lose Remerswaal said:
Mackey Sasser?
Or Dave Engle?
Both of them had issues.
I was thinking of Sasser. Yes, Murphy had to be moved to RF full-time due to this psychological problem.joe dokes said:
So did Mike Ivie and (I think) Dale Murphy.
My point was that once the psychological problem becomes this severe that no pitcher has ever returned successfully from it. It is one thing to lose your ability to throw strikes due for mechanical reasons however it seems pretty clear that mechanics aren't Bards issue.smastroyin said:Players losing the ability to throw back to the pitcher or throw to bases is one thing.
Players losing the ability to consistently throw strikes is another. I don't think catchers getting over throwing problems really brings us any kind of information regarding Bard's chances.
judyb said:Anyone else wonder why they didn't just trade him to the Cubs for a nickel instead of either team risking him ending up somewhere else?
Probably because the Cubs weren't willing to even give up a nickel for him.judyb said:Anyone else wonder why they didn't just trade him to the Cubs for a nickel instead of either team risking him ending up somewhere else?
I suppose this is possible, but I think by putting him on waivers the Red Sox were admitting they were OK moving on. If the Cubs made a decent offer I think they would have taken it, I just doubt the offer was out there.Red(s)HawksFan said:Probably because the Red Sox harbored a small hope that he'd clear waivers and they could hold on to him.
And frankly, I don't think they were all that worried about where he would end up. That it was the Cubs that claimed him is poetic and not much of a surprise given who leads their front office, but I guarantee Ben and company didn't give two shits about making sure if he didn't stay in the organization, that he ended up with the Cubs.
radsoxfan said:Probably because the Cubs weren't willing to even give up a nickel for him.
Just because they are willing to take a flier on him doesn't mean they have high expectations or would have been that upset if someone else claimed him.