BEAT L.A. (The Gamethread)

catomatic

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Muncy’s throw tests the baseline metric for intelligence; holding two opposing thoughts in the mind at the same time, (and still being capable of action). Catcher should have handled the throw. But the throw was shite.

And Brett Phillips’s already considerable faith in God appears, by that experience, to have been forever consummated.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Are you even kidding me, baseball?? This game was insane. One of the craziest I've ever seen, and it was in the World Series.
And yes, Jansen should have been backing up home.
 

ngruz25

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I don't think Jansen was anticipating needing to back up home plate on a soft single when the runner coming home started on first base.

It was just a comedy of errors from LA. Brutal little league boot by the CF, bad baserunning by TB forces LA to rush a hour throw that wasn't needed, bad throw by the cutoff guy, bad catch by the catcher, bad backup by the pitcher. Ballgame over!
 

E5 Yaz

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I don't think Jansen was anticipating needing to back up home plate on a soft single when the runner coming home started on first base.
Fair ... but your immediate reaction shouldn't be to drop to his knees
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Taylor's error was the biggest issue hard stop. Then you go down the line of Muncy's offline relay, Smith not doing his job in always keeping the ball in front of him and then you can bag on Jansen. It really seems odd to pick on him regardless of what he did given how incidental it was.

Frankly, I would invite people to share why he even merits mention in the scheme of things.
 

VORP Speed

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Taylor's error was the biggest issue hard stop. Then you go down the line of Muncy's offline relay, Smith not doing his job in always keeping the ball in front of him and then you can bag on Jansen. It really seems odd to pick on him regardless of what he did given how incidental it was.

Frankly, I would invite people to share why he even merits mention in the scheme of things.
I wish I could see some aerial shot or super wide angle to get a sense of how close it would have been if Randy hadn’t tripped. Smith certainly sized it up to be a bang bang play.
 

The Gray Eagle

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The tying run was on second base, so Jansen should immediately moving when he sees it's a single. Either backing up home or third
Taylor's error was the biggest issue hard stop. Then you go down the line of Muncy's offline relay, Smith not doing his job in always keeping the ball in front of him and then you can bag on Jansen. It really seems odd to pick on him regardless of what he did given how incidental it was.

Frankly, I would invite people to share why he even merits mention in the scheme of things.
Because the other guys were trying to do their jobs, but Jansen wasn't even trying. The others made physical errors, Jansen made a mental error.
 

Kliq

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Missed the game but caught the extended highlights on YouTube. Wow! What a terrific game. The game has changed a lot over recent years, but at its core, it is still a brilliant form of entertainment and that game encapsulates the joy of October baseball.
 

Euclis20

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Taylor's error was the biggest issue hard stop. Then you go down the line of Muncy's offline relay, Smith not doing his job in always keeping the ball in front of him and then you can bag on Jansen. It really seems odd to pick on him regardless of what he did given how incidental it was.

Frankly, I would invite people to share why he even merits mention in the scheme of things.
This is all fair but he merits mention because he came in to get the save in WS game up by 1 run, and he gave up 2 hits and a walk, a total choke job. The other three fielders made physical mistakes, Jansen made a mental error not backing up the plate. His head was not properly in the game, and despite the comedy of errors on the final play, the blown save was 100% Jansen. You can split the loss a few different ways, but Jansen blew a playoff game, again. Going forward he'll be the one to face the harshest consequences, not the other guys.
 

jon abbey

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Smith not doing his job in always keeping the ball in front of him
I don't think this is correct because he was understandably under the impression that if he moved away from the plate to make sure to stop the ball, Arozarena scores easily and the game is over. Arozarena tripped too late for Smith to notice, then it would be his job to keep the ball in front of him at all costs.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, when Taylor booted it, Jansen immediately has to sprint for home to try to backup but I don't think he gets to the 1B side of home where he needed to be even if he goes right away.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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He put the runners on base and gave up the single?
Fair. I am a huge Jansen skeptic in terms of his stuff these days and I absolutely agree that he failed to get the last out, especially with two strikes.

But him not backing up home especially given where Jansen is supposed to be siuationally seems an odd thing to focus on.

Edit: I was unclear in my initial post. Jansen's pitching is entirely deserving of criticism. I should have prefaced my comments with that given.
 

E5 Yaz

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Fair. I am a huge Jansen skeptic in terms of his stuff these days and I absolutely agree that he failed to get the last out, especially with two strikes.

But him not backing up home especially given where Jansen is supposed to be siuationally seems an odd thing to focus on.

Edit: I was unclear in my initial post. Jansen's pitching is entirely deserving of criticism. I should have prefaced my comments with that given.
You backed up better than he did ... :w00t:
 

ledsox

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I wish I could see some aerial shot or super wide angle to get a sense of how close it would have been if Randy hadn’t tripped. Smith certainly sized it up to be a bang bang play.
I tried checking this too and it's tough to judge from the angles but I think he would have been out by a bit. Maybe he scores with a great slide but I'm not convinced it was a great send. Well, of course it was but I bet there will be a statcast that could figure this better.

Just nuts, the ineptitude on that play, of the 5 guys involved, only the guy who hit .150 and was left off the roster last series comes away clean.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I don't think this is correct because he was understandably under the impression that if he moved away from the plate to make sure to stop the ball, Arozarena scores easily and the game is over. Arozarena tripped too late for Smith to notice, then it would be his job to keep the ball in front of him at all costs.
If Smith fails to secure the ball, the game is almost certainly over regardless of where Arozarena is down the line. His only chance is to secure the ball. This is how I have seen it coached. That said, it was a bang bang play, Muncy made a poor relay to the first base line side of home and Taylor sits atop error king mountain with a terrible boot.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If Jansen backs up exactly as he is coached to with a runner on first and a ball is hit to center he cannot reasonably have been expected to impact that play.

35290
 

DeadlySplitter

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happy for KK, I've always respected him as the JBJ of the Rays and he is smacking some big hits right now
 

jon abbey

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If Jansen backs up exactly as he is coached to with a runner on first and a ball is hit to center he cannot reasonably have been expected to impact that play.
I agree, I think where people are confused is that when Taylor booted the ball, they think Jansen should have headed home, but if he was running to back up third, he wouldn't have seen Taylor boot the ball in time to get home, and even if he was backing up home perfectly, I don't think he would have been anywhere near where the ball actually went.
 

ledsox

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Looking into it more it really would have been bang bang at the plate if Randy hadn't tripped and flipped and Smith had caught a good throw from Muncy.
He was moving at 28.7 feet/sec per statcast and the play took 10 seconds from bat contact to ball hitting catchers glove.

Randy went from 2nd to 3rd in 3.4 seconds so he probably hits home around 9 to 10 seconds after contact. I take back questioning the send. It was no doubt the correct call.
 

DeadlySplitter

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super second guessing in hindsight: should Jansen have pitched in a 5-run game in game 3, setting up Arozarena as Barry Bonds light in the process? His stuff and command was not as good on a second day in a row. it's also weird to use your closer there and then in a 1-run game the next day - not that that is a bad thing, but clearly they are very unsettled at closer right now.

This and Baez used for 5 outs and Graterol just 1, is where you would look if you wanted to move on from Dave. not that I would. There's still a ton of baseball to be played, too.
 

joe dokes

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In one of his few sentient broadcasting moments, Joe Morgan said, "when it's at its best, baseball is the best."

(Also, Dan Shulman is great ón radio. Gets excited at all the right times to keep me from dozing off).
 

johnmd20

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Feels like it wouldn't have mattered if Jansen was backing up. By the time he got the ball and threw it, the run would have scored anyway. It wouldn't have exactly gone right to him because the ball caromed in the opposite direction of the throw.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I wonder what happens if Arozarena doesn’t trip and Smith fields the replay cleanly. With two outs watching live when Taylor booted the ball I assumed that it was going to be the ballgame. Watching the replays you just can’t tell but I think he probably would have been safe and can certainly understand why Smith thought he was going to have to make a perfect play.
 

amRadio

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How does Kenley come back from that? How can any closer? It's a guts and glory position, and he gets hammered in the biggest moments constantly. Just brutal. The World Series might be the worst possible time to not know who your closer is... Maybe Graterol becomes an LA hero over the next three games.
 

VORP Speed

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How does Kenley come back from that? How can any closer? It's a guts and glory position, and he gets hammered in the biggest moments constantly. Just brutal. The World Series might be the worst possible time to not know who your closer is... Maybe Graterol becomes an LA hero over the next three games.
Yet another advantage of not having rigid bullpen roles. Rays have had, what, 13 different guys get saves this year? "Closer" is a prison of your own making, and now Roberts and Jansen are fully locked in it.
 

canderson

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I feel asleep in the 8th and just caught up. That was WILD. But that send from 2nd would make Kim jealous. He’d have been out by 20’ if the relay/catcher did their jobs.
 

Max Power

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I feel asleep in the 8th and just caught up. That was WILD. But that send from 2nd would make Kim jealous. He’d have been out by 20’ if the relay/catcher did their jobs.
I don't think a third base coach should take the possibility of the runner tumbling and falling down into account when deciding when to send him.
 

DJnVa

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It's hard to believe TB just won a WS game with Ryan Yarbrough starting and all three of Fairbanks/Castillo/Anderson allowing earned runs.
Ryan Yarbrough is a really good pitcher and had a 119 ERA+ this season. He's got to be way down list of bad pitchers starting a WS game. Mostly because he isn't one.
 

DJnVa

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My buddy works with Chris Taylor's dad. Monday might be a day to avoid eye contact, especially depending on how today goes.
 

canderson

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I don't think a third base coach should take the possibility of the runner tumbling and falling down into account when deciding when to send him.
Without the stumble he looked toast on a decent throw, I think. He stumbled around the relay throw, it looked like.
 

E5 Yaz

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Sean Casey on MLB Tonight describes how Muncy threw Smith a "changeup" on the relay instead of a fastball — same rotation, acts differently — and that's how Smith whiffed the catch. Seems a stretch, but Casey did know a thing or two about playing defense at first