Beltran steps down as Mets manager

Murderer's Crow

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I wish Boston had a second team like the Mets so they could understand how ridiculously hilarious it is to see the Mets constantly in the middle of some absurd drama.
 

BaseballJones

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WOW. LOL at the Mets. They had NOTHING to do with this at all and now they get completely screwed out of their manager due to stuff that happened on other teams.

Beltran and the Mets must have known that a suspension was coming?
 

jon abbey

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Beltran and the Mets must have known that a suspension was coming?
How could a suspension be coming? The Astros part of the investigation is concluded and MLB has said no players are being punished. This was all about the cloud that would be hanging over the team all year if he stayed, which is the last thing the Mets need.
 

InstaFace

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It's not like the Mets will have trouble getting a manager of Beltran's quality to sign on now. There are always good candidates.

But yeah, this all moved fast.
 

BaseballJones

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How could a suspension be coming? The Astros part of the investigation is concluded and MLB has said no players are being charged. This was all about the cloud that would be hanging over the team all year if he stayed, which is the last thing the Mets need.
He's not a player now. I would bet that would make a difference. The MLBPA can't defend Beltran now.
 

edoug

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I wish Boston had a second team like the Mets so they could understand how ridiculously hilarious it is to see the Mets constantly in the middle of some absurd drama.
Really? I don't think the Red Sox need much help in that department.
 

StuckOnYouk

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This seems like a perfect time for an enraged beltran to make a mockery of Manfred and do a tell-all interview of all the tactics that were still used after Manfreds warnings so he can take down the yankees as well right?
Where's Evan Drellich
 

jon abbey

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Lots of insight into this on Twitter now that it has happened, Heyman's posts are as good as any.

"Mets felt the positive perception had turned negative and the focus would have been on what went on in Houston. Understandably so."

"Team officials talked about the Beltran situation long into last night, and while they slept on it, the decision seemed obvious by last night. They talked to Beltran and while there were voices in his corner, ultimately they didn’t believe he could stand up to constant questions."

"The phrasing “stepped down” is really just a nicer spin. He was going to be let go."
 

Plympton91

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So, as I said in another thread, by its interpretation of this cheating scandal as primarily the fault of a bench coach, and choosing to single out only Carlos Beltran from the pool of players who cheated, MLB has torpedoed the careers of two very promising minority managers.

Not a good look if the Mets and Red Sox go back to the old boy’s network for their replacements. I wonder if Cora and Beltran weren’t as cooperative with MLB as they wanted them to be, or if MLB really did just get snowed by the Astros attempt at deflecting blame from the people who were actually, you know, in charge of something.
 

Rough Carrigan

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Lots of insight into this on Twitter now that it has happened, Heyman's posts are as good as any.

"Mets felt the positive perception had turned negative and the focus would have been on what went on in Houston. Understandably so."

"Team officials talked about the Beltran situation long into last night, and while they slept on it, the decision seemed obvious by last night. They talked to Beltran and while there were voices in his corner, ultimately they didn’t believe he could stand up to constant questions."

"The phrasing “stepped down” is really just a nicer spin. He was going to be let go."
Is he that delicate? Constant questions? After a few weeks there wouldn't be any. My God.
 

E5 Yaz

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I wish Boston had a second team like the Mets so they could understand how ridiculously hilarious it is to see the Mets constantly in the middle of some absurd drama.
Don't count your chickens
 

jon abbey

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Perhaps he is/was going to be suspended for the Yankees part of the investigation, where he was a special advisor.
FWIW:

"Regarding video of Cora talking about Beltran helping Yankees in '19. MLB sources reaffirm this AM they're not investigating NYY. Video could easily be talking pitch tipping/legal sign stealing. NYY have adamantly denied CB helped them do anything illegal. League corroborates"

"Adding to this: Beltran did not share with the Yankees what Houston did in 2017. If anything, the Yanks would have appreciated more help in defending against their 2019 ALCS opponents' methods, but Beltran didn't cop his '19 bosses what went on in '17."

"When Beltran stayed for Yankees games last year, he often watched from the stands with a friend, not in the clubhouse."

Dunno how true all of that is or not, but it would be easy to prove wrong if he was lying, especially the stands/clubhouse thing at the end.

View: https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1217559189922418688
 

E5 Yaz

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"When Beltran stayed for Yankees games last year, he often watched from the stands with a friend, not in the clubhouse."
Yes, because there's no way to watch a game on camera in the stands and find a method to communicate with the players.

MLB is being so vocal about not investigating the Yankees for the same set of reasons as when it didn't use "the best interests of baseball" after the Marlins "traded" Stanton to Ny for a handy
 

jon abbey

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MLB is being so vocal about not investigating the Yankees for the same set of reasons as when it didn't use "the best interests of baseball" after the Marlins "traded" Stanton to Ny for a handy
Huh? Stanton had a full no-trade clause and MIA felt they had to move his giant contract, the Yankees were the only team who wanted him of the few on his list, and that deal isn't looking especially good currently.
 

E5 Yaz

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Huh? Stanton had a full no-trade clause, the Yankees were the only team who wanted him of the few on his list, and that deal isn't looking especially good currently.
You know the moon "landing" was faked, right?
 

Wingack

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WOW. LOL at the Mets. They had NOTHING to do with this at all and now they get completely screwed out of their manager due to stuff that happened on other teams.
LOL, it is maybe the most Mets thing ever, that of the three teams firing their managers in the cheating scandal, they are the only one of those teams that didn't at least get a World Series championship.
 

bankshot1

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"Adding to this: Beltran did not share with the Yankees what Houston did in 2017. If anything, the Yanks would have appreciated more help in defending against their 2019 ALCS opponents' methods, but Beltran didn't cop his '19 bosses what went on in '17."

It strains credulity and one can't help but question if the Yankees dug-out outrage at the Astro's whistling in the '19 ALCS was first tipped off by Beltram
 

OurF'ingCity

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"Adding to this: Beltran did not share with the Yankees what Houston did in 2017. If anything, the Yanks would have appreciated more help in defending against their 2019 ALCS opponents' methods, but Beltran didn't cop his '19 bosses what went on in '17."

It strains credulity and one can't help but question if the Yankees dug-out outrage at the Astro's whistling in the '19 ALCS was first tipped off by Beltran
MLB is letting this fester by not just investigating the Yankees now given the significant connections they have to this whole issue - something that, if they truly didn't do anything wrong, the Yankees should welcome. If the Yankees are clean, MLB can issue a one-sentence statement that says "after looking into the matter MLB has concluded the Yankees did not violate league rules related to sign-stealing in 2018 or 2019." And if the Yankees aren't clean, there is no reason they shouldn't be disciplined too.

Instead we have to go through the BS of vague statements from unnamed "MLB sources" tweeted out by a NY-area reporter - really dumb.
 

Murderer's Crow

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I know this is a sox forum, but seriously, the Yankees stuff here has been sounding like AM radio call speculation. Stop trying to connect dots that aren't there. If you want to draw a line, start a Yankees cheating thread and show your homework. There is no conspiracy to make the Sox look bad but the Yankees look clean. If there was something, as with PEDs, the league would come down on the organization or its players. Perhaps that will happen in the future. Right now, the constant Yankees finger pointing is based on nothing except Logan f'n Morrison.
 

stepson_and_toe

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You do realize the Sox fired Cora for what he did with the Astros, which the Sox had nothing to do with?
You do realize that baseball fans outside of Red Sox fans will be convinced that Boston won the 2018 World Series by cheating because they had a connection with Cora? The town already has a reputation; just ask an NFL fan who isn't a Patriot fan.
 

jon abbey

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I guess the Mets will just elevate BamBam now that I have decided he'd be great for the Sox. Rats!
I have seen other people rumored more than Bam Bam for the Mets job, plus if they pass on him again, they kind of have to let him go to BOS if BOS wants him (the Mets are allowed to say no here, pretty sure).
 

Murderer's Crow

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You do realize that baseball fans outside of Red Sox fans will be convinced that Boston won the 2018 World Series by cheating because they had a connection with Cora? The town already has a reputation; just ask an NFL fan who isn't a Patriot fan.
I'll be honest, this is true. But after the presser yesterday, I actually think the Sox may come out clean on this. Henry made it clear that we should wait and see the results of the investigation and that's what we should do as fans of other teams.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Perhaps that will happen in the future. Right now, the constant Yankees finger pointing is based on nothing except Logan f'n Morrison.
I mean, this is just blatantly untrue. It's mostly based on the fact that the Yankees are confirmed to have stolen signs using the replay room into the 2017 season - and they are the only team other than the Astros and Red Sox to have been specifically identified as having done so (although it sounds like other teams did so as well). Given that, is it not fair to wonder if the Yankees continued doing so as the Sox apparently did? Then you add on Cora more or less just coming out last year and accusing Beltran of helping the Yankees steal signs, plus the LoMo tweet you mention although that's obviously the least important data point here.

None of that is definitive of course, but it would be nice for MLB to publicly make clear that they looked into the Yankees given the above and didn't uncover anything (maybe they will do that later this offseason or even as part of the report resulting from the Red Sox investigation). Until and unless they do that I think it's fair to be frustrated that we will just have to be relying on unnamed sources that say what MLB did or didn't look into or determine.
 

Murderer's Crow

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I mean, this is just blatantly untrue. It's mostly based on the fact that the Yankees are confirmed to have stolen signs using the replay room into the 2017 season - and they are the only team other than the Astros and Red Sox to have been specifically identified as having done so (although it sounds like other teams did so as well). Given that, is it not fair to wonder if the Yankees continued doing so as the Sox apparently did? Then you add on Cora more or less just coming out last year and accusing Beltran of helping the Yankees steal signs, plus the LoMo tweet you mention although that's obviously the least important data point here.

None of that is definitive of course, but it would be nice for MLB to publicly make clear that they looked into the Yankees given the above and didn't uncover anything (maybe they will do that later this offseason or even as part of the report resulting from the Red Sox investigation). Until and unless they do that I think it's fair to be frustrated that we will just have to be relying on unnamed sources that say what MLB did or didn't look into or determine.
Are we doing this again? Show me where the Yankees stole signs in 2017 or 2016. Hint: They didn't.
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

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You do realize the Sox fired Cora for what he did with the Astros, which the Sox had nothing to do with?
I think there are a couple differences here though. Cora was a bench coach and was facing a Hinch-like suspension. There's also an investigation on the '18 Sox who were under Cora's control. Beltran's '17 involvement was "cleared" by MLB in that he wasn't going to face any suspension time and there's no investigation (yet) on his '19 team.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Are we doing this again? Show me where the Yankees stole signs in 2017 or 2016. Hint: They didn't.
Seriously? This is directly from The Athletic:

The system the Red Sox employed [in 2018] was not unlike one they had used in previous seasons under a different manager, John Farrell. It was also similar to one the Yankees and other teams had employed before MLB started its crackdown.
As far back as 2015, the Yankees used the video replay room to learn other teams’ sign sequences, multiple sources told The Athletic. Other teams likely were doing the same. Sources said the Red Sox began doing it no later than 2016.
“I’m just telling you from a broad perspective, living it, it didn’t feel that wrong,” said one player who used the replay-room system with the Yankees as far back as 2015. “It was there for everyone, that’s all.”
By 2017, with rules governing electronic sign stealing still lacking the specificity that would come the next season, the Red Sox, Yankees and Astros were all using their replay rooms to help decode sign sequences in some way, sources said.
And this is from the same SNY reporter now saying the Yankees aren't currently under investigation:

No one is denying that some Yankees used their video room in 2015-17 to decode signs, as The Athletic reported.
Is that enough or do you need more?
 

Doug Beerabelli

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I know this is a sox forum, but seriously, the Yankees stuff here has been sounding like AM radio call speculation. Stop trying to connect dots that aren't there. If you want to draw a line, start a Yankees cheating thread and show your homework. There is no conspiracy to make the Sox look bad but the Yankees look clean. If there was something, as with PEDs, the league would come down on the organization or its players. Perhaps that will happen in the future. Right now, the constant Yankees finger pointing is based on nothing except Logan f'n Morrison.
Thou doth protest too much.
 

bankshot1

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This is a thread about Beltran, so discussion and speculation about what and when he did whatever he did seems fair game.

But having said that, I know that he played for the Yankees, but clearly he learned the mastery of the baeball's dark arts in Houston and only practiced those dark arts deep in the heart of Texas.

And never spoke of them or practiced them ever again.

Yippie-Kai-YAY
 

Murderer's Crow

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Seriously? This is directly from The Athletic:
And this is from the same SNY reporter now saying the Yankees aren't currently under investigation:

Is that enough or do you need more?
Two things

1) Using the video replay room in some way to decode signs is an absolutely different thing that the transmission of those signs via some device (apple watches) or tool (trash cans). The former is what most people would agree the majority of major league teams were doing because the rules didn't explicitly prohibit it, the latter is specifically what the league has decided to punish, especially after their warnings.

2) The timing of this is key,. Allegations against the Red Sox or any other team pre-2017 were summed up by a fine to the Sox for their apple watch stuff, a fine to the Yankees for using the dugout phone (not for sign stealing). All teams got a clean slate from that point forward because the league basically said "fine, we need to clarify this and restate how serious we're taking it."

In 2017, after fining the Red Sox for their Apple watch scheme and the Yankees for their ill-advised phone call, MLB made clear that future incidents of high-tech sign stealing would be punished harshly.

"All 30 Clubs have been notified that future violations of this type will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks," commissioner Rob Manfred said in the statement announcing those fines.

The following spring, MLB issued a memo to officials from all 30 clubs stating that "Electronic equipment, including game feeds in the Club replay room and/or video room, may never be used during a game for the purpose of stealing the opposing team's signs."



The difference now is that nothing except LoMo has said anything about the Yankees from 2017 on whereas the Astros and Sox are in the crosshairs for ignoring the rule clarification.
 

BigSoxFan

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Yankees fans here seem awfully triggered by any suggestion...on a Red Sox board...that they may not be completely innocent in all this.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yankees fans here seem awfully triggered by any suggestion...on a Red Sox board...that they may not be completely innocent in all this.
It's a good thing their most recent championship had anything to do with steroids