Daniels looked bad early, stuff opened up when they were getting blown out, which he generally took advantage of which is good, but not clear how it will translate to closer games.Let's keep track:
Williams: 14/29, 93 yards, 0/0 TD/INT, 15 rushing yards, 2 sacks
Daniels: 17/24, 184 yards, 0/0 TD/INT, 88 rushing yards, 2 TDs, 2 sacks
Nix: 26/42, 198 yards, 0/2 TD/INT, 35 rushing yards, 1 TD, 2 sacks
Maye/Penix: DNP
McCarthy: injured
Williams looked erratic all day--he had a few run around and keep the play alive plays, but definitely looked like a rookie. Daniels looked decent but game wasn't really all that close so don't know how that will translate in a closer game. Nix did a few things, but sub-200 yards on 42 attempts is not good.
Agreed re Daniel’s, but he also looks like he could get himself killed out there (I know I’m not saying anything novel there).Daniels looked bad early, stuff opened up when they were getting blown out, which he generally took advantage of which is good, but not clear how it will translate to closer games.
Even the stuff that opened up was mainly a bunch of checkdowns against deep zones, so not much to write home about. He hit one nice out to the sideline latish but the coverage was pretty soft. Overall almost everything else he threw was short or in the 5-10 yard range between the hashes and even on the short stuff the ball placement often didn't look great. He really only went downfield twice and the accuracy on both was really bad. One throw landed like 5 yards out of bounds and the other throw was definitely open and he just overthrew it. He also did a lot of one read and go quarterbacking although the OL didn't give him much help. Super dynamic runner but he never seems to slide and he doesn't quite have that Lamar-level slippery elusiveness that allows him to never really get hit squarely.Daniels looked bad early, stuff opened up when they were getting blown out, which he generally took advantage of which is good, but not clear how it will translate to closer games.
Had a sense a lot of the critics of the Penix pick were thinking..."now, well, hold on a minute, maybe not a bad idea to have a 2nd QB."Penix by far. Falcons starter threw 2 INTs and they lost. Pats starter throw 0 INTs and they won.
The problem with the Penix pick was always.... if you don't think Cousins is healthy/good enough.... why the hell would you give him $100MHad a sense a lot of the critics of the Penix pick were thinking..."now, well, hold on a minute, maybe not a bad idea to have a 2nd QB."
Nix legitimately should have thrown four interceptions. Twice balls hit defenders in the face and they dropped them. I still thought he played OK, but his statline actually looked better than it should have been.Let's keep track:
Williams: 14/29, 93 yards, 0/0 TD/INT, 15 rushing yards, 2 sacks
Daniels: 17/24, 184 yards, 0/0 TD/INT, 88 rushing yards, 2 TDs, 2 sacks
Nix: 26/42, 198 yards, 0/2 TD/INT, 35 rushing yards, 1 TD, 2 sacks
Maye/Penix: DNP
McCarthy: injured
Williams looked erratic all day--he had a few run around and keep the play alive plays, but definitely looked like a rookie. Daniels looked decent but game wasn't really all that close so don't know how that will translate in a closer game. Nix did a few things, but sub-200 yards on 42 attempts is not good.
Correct. It has nothing to do with Penix as a playerThe problem with the Penix pick was always.... if you don't think Cousins is healthy/good enough.... why the hell would you give him $100M
To be fair I think it's a bad pick anyway because I don't think he's a 1st round (nevermind top 10) talent, but what made is so bad a pick was... even if you think that, you went out of your way to pay a vet a huge amount of guaranteed money a week before, and there is zero reason you would do that if you expected him to be less than a 2 year starter for you at a high level (probably 3). THe idea that him looking bad (and still injured) makes it a good pick ignores that it would then be an all-time bad signing if you knew it was a mistake a week after you signed it before the player even practiced.Correct. It has nothing to do with Penix as a player
Put me down on being unimpressed with Caleb Williams the half dozen times I've watched him play.Williams: 14/29, 93 yards, 0/0 TD/INT, 15 rushing yards, 2 sacks
Williams looked erratic all day--he had a few run around and keep the play alive plays, but definitely looked like a rookie.
Just like Justin Fields. That guy can do no wrong according to the media, even though when you look at everything (stats, eye test, etc.), he's total garbage except running.Put me down on being unimpressed with Caleb Williams the half dozen times I've watched him play.
He loved the broken play, scramble around, hit a streaking WR at USC. Not really a classic NFL pocket passer
I must have it wrong, the experts love him
I don't think "the media" is all that high on Fields, people think he's better than Russ (he is) but I think you are confusing fantasy football writers with real football. The former love Fields for the same reason they'll love Daniels... rushing like that makes you really good in fantasy no matter how much you stink in real life.Just like Justin Fields. That guy can do no wrong according to the media, even though when you look at everything (stats, eye test, etc.), he's total garbage except running.
Personally, I thought the rookie QBs from best to worst were: Daniels, Penix, Nix, Williams, McCarthy, Maye. We won't know for a couple more years, and I'm no expert, so take it with a shaker full of salt.
I've never seen the arm strength from the pocket to wow me. He's always looking to leave the pocket early & scramble/gamble, which is great in college but no bueno in the NFL. Linemen/DBs are worlds faster in the pros, & Caleb isn't Daniels elusive.I don't think "the media" is all that high on Fields, people think he's better than Russ (he is) but I think you are confusing fantasy football writers with real football. The former love Fields for the same reason they'll love Daniels... rushing like that makes you really good in fantasy no matter how much you stink in real life.
In terms of Caleb... it's really easy to see why people like him.... he can make throws like 5 guys in the league tops can make. He needs work, he's a rookie 1 game in, but the ceiling is immense, the closest guy to him is Maye, but even Maye probably doesn't have the pure throwing ability from any platform.
The talent he has is undeniable, but are the USC Offensive line and Receivers horrible? It's a lot of first read isn't there, stare down the field for 3 seconds, then scramble and make an off-platform throw or run.I've never seen the arm strength from the pocket to wow me. He's always looking to leave the pocket early & scramble/gamble, which is great in college but no bueno in the NFL. Linemen/DBs are worlds faster in the pros, & Caleb isn't Daniels elusive.
Being a skeptic of the hands-down #1 pick isn't very clever on my part, but I'd rather have Maye (FWIW I'm not a Pats fan)
Here are Caleb's highlights/best throws at USC. 95% were broken plays, with over-the-top throws to USC WRs streaking down the field wide-open.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2ECSZo2bBI&t=319s
The USC line was indeed bad, passcatchers too (Rice probably the only NFL guy and maybe not even him long-term), also... their defense was among the worst in the country, so a lot of "well can't not score here or we'll be down 2 possessions.The talent he has is undeniable, but are the USC Offensive line and Receivers horrible? It's a lot of first read isn't there, stare down the field for 3 seconds, then scramble and make an off-platform throw or run.
Not breaking down tape or anything so can’t see much of the secondary or the coverages but did Daniels even complete a ball downfield? If he did I had turned away so they were either awesome checkdowns or a guy who lacked confidence in his arm/coverage reads. It’s his first game so obv a pass but I wasn’t as excited about him as others were moving forward. Hard to tell without seeing the entire field though but something to watch Week 2.
Then you don't watch ESPN (among others) as for their coverage, he's the next tier down from LeBron, Tiger, etc. He has always received an inordinate amount of coverage relative to his production, and it's not just fantasy people. It's never made any sense.I don't think "the media" is all that high on Fields, people think he's better than Russ (he is) but I think you are confusing fantasy football writers with real football. The former love Fields for the same reason they'll love Daniels... rushing like that makes you really good in fantasy no matter how much you stink in real life.
Seriously? More reason I'm glad I don't watch ESPN. I can't even fathom that.Then you don't watch ESPN (among others) as for their coverage, he's the next tier down from LeBron, Tiger, etc.
And both completions to the outside that were >5 yards plus the one about 8 yards upfield by the right hash were on the last drive of the game against paper soft zone with the Commanders down 23.
1-3 on attempts 10+ yards. 14 of his 24 attempts were 4 yards or less, 8 of those were behind the LOS.
It's his first ever game, and there are going to be a lot of people open because of his ability to run. His team is also garbage piss, so we need to give it time. The running ability is definitely there, and it's going to be elite, so that's at least a pretty good sign imo.Not breaking down tape or anything so can’t see much of the secondary or the coverages but did Daniels even complete a ball downfield? If he did I had turned away so they were either awesome checkdowns or a guy who lacked confidence in his arm/coverage reads. It’s his first game so obv a pass but I wasn’t as excited about him as others were moving forward. Hard to tell without seeing the entire field though but something to watch Week 2.
Throw distance is a weird stat--Mahomes was near bottom of league is how his throws compared to where the sticks were, and Bryce Young was near the top.And both completions to the outside that were >5 yards plus the one about 8 yards upfield by the right hash were on the last drive of the game against paper soft zone with the Commanders down 23.
Why do we assume this experience won't help Williams going forward? Peyton Manning is an example of a guy who has said that figuring out what he couldn't get away with as a rookie was key to his development. I don't know, I guess I just don't think these guys are as fragile as some do. Maybe Bryce Young just has below average physical tools across the board and generally sucks. Maybe David Carr was simply clueless inside the pocket. Every player is different, not everything is a general referendum on the position. Not to mention Jayden Daniels has started out well behind what was universally considered a terrible OL with a very uninspiring group of receivers.Seeing Caleb Williams struggle in what was deemed an ideal developmental situation makes me more happy we're able to approach Maye's development differently. The game is just moving too fast for Williams. He's learning on the fly that what has allowed him to be successful in the past isn't necessarily going to work at this level. In those situations where he's running for his life, it seems really hard to help him focus on learning a new way to play the game. At least Maye can observe and keep working on what the staff has asked of him in a totally different environment.
And Tom Brady said sitting helped his development. We don't and can't know. That being said, Peyton and Caleb's strengths are/were very different, so we're talking about a player in Peyton who played within structure and needed to learn the new limits to face when hitting the NFL and how to prepare for that. In Caleb, we're looking at someone who has played best out of structure; not only does he need to learn the limits of where that works and doesn't on a physical level (i.e NFL windows), he's also going to need to learn in all likelihood how to play within structure when it's what his team needs. I would imagine that's going to be really hard for him to do at NFL speed when running for his life. Drake Maye getting to take some reps against a really good defense and start to build some mental and muscle memory, in my mind, is a much better place for him right now while he's still working on things to be NFL ready.Why do we assume this experience won't help Williams going forward? Peyton Manning is an example of a guy who has said that figuring out what he couldn't get away with as a rookie was key to his development. I don't know, I guess I just don't think these guys are as fragile as some do. Maybe Bryce Young just has below average physical tools across the board and generally sucks. Maybe David Carr was simply clueless inside the pocket. Every player is different, not everything is a general referendum on the position. Not to mention Jayden Daniels has started out well behind what was universally considered a terrible OL with a very uninspiring group of receivers.
But Drake Maye isn't really the same type of player as Caleb. He made most of his plays within structure in college.And Tom Brady said sitting helped his development. We don't and can't know. That being said, Peyton and Caleb's strengths are/were very different, so we're talking about a player in Peyton who played within structure and needed to learn the new limits to face when hitting the NFL and how to prepare for that. In Caleb, we're looking at someone who has played best out of structure; not only does he need to learn the limits of where that works and doesn't on a physical level (i.e NFL windows), he's also going to need to learn in all likelihood how to play within structure when it's what his team needs. I would imagine that's going to be really hard for him to do at NFL speed when running for his life. Drake Maye getting to take some reps against a really good defense and start to build some mental and muscle memory, in my mind, is a much better place for him right now while he's still working on things to be NFL ready.
Chicago is where QBs go to die. Please remember to say a prayer for Caleb Williams.The Bears' dumpster fire of an OL and Caleb Williams' having a weak point of needing to learn to play on time within structure are an ugly combination. A lot of people (including me) thought this was going to be a pretty good situation for him with their receiving talent but yikes.
I did and that prayer was apparently answered!Chicago is where QBs go to die. Please remember to say a prayer for Caleb Williams.
I wouldn't have expected C to be our worst position.This seems relevant when thinking about Maye vs the other three rookie QBs, all of whom are getting great pass protection.
Looks like that data is thru week 6, which would mostly be Leverett and Andrews, with one game of Ben Brown.I wouldn't have expected C to be our worst position.
Daniels is playing with a lot of confidence. The game is already slowing down for him. Hopefully Maye stays upright long enough for us to see him experience the same! I already think Maye has the most talent in the class from what we've seen. He's the total package. Runs and throws at an elite level.Updated stats:
Caleb Williams: 162/264, 61.4%, 1665 yards, 9/5 TD/INT, 83.0 rating, 221 rushing yards (5.8 ypc), 0 TDs
Jayden Daniels: 163/228, 68.2%, 1945 yards, 9/2 TD/INT, 106.7 rating, 459 rushing yards (5.6 ypc), 4 TDs
Drake Maye: 82/125, 65.6%, 770 yards, 6/4 TD/INT, 85.1 rating, 209 rushing yards (10.0 ypc), 1 TD
Bo Nix: 184/294, 62.6%, 1753 yards, 8/6 TD/INT, 79.6 rating, 295 rushing yards (5.1 ypc), 4 TD
Pro-rated Maye stats from his 3 full games played to 9 games (same as Daniels/Nix): 225/333, 67.6%, 2178 yards, 18/12 TD/INT, 88. rating, 450 yards rushing.
Decent.
And pro-rate those over a full 17 game season:Updated stats:
Caleb Williams: 162/264, 61.4%, 1665 yards, 9/5 TD/INT, 83.0 rating, 221 rushing yards (5.8 ypc), 0 TDs
Jayden Daniels: 163/228, 68.2%, 1945 yards, 9/2 TD/INT, 106.7 rating, 459 rushing yards (5.6 ypc), 4 TDs
Drake Maye: 82/125, 65.6%, 770 yards, 6/4 TD/INT, 85.1 rating, 209 rushing yards (10.0 ypc), 1 TD
Bo Nix: 184/294, 62.6%, 1753 yards, 8/6 TD/INT, 79.6 rating, 295 rushing yards (5.1 ypc), 4 TD
Pro-rated Maye stats from his 3 full games played to 9 games (same as Daniels/Nix): 225/333, 67.6%, 2178 yards, 18/12 TD/INT, 88. rating, 450 yards rushing.
Decent.