Betts/Price to LA for Verdugo/Jeter Downs/TBA

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jon abbey

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This might help in terms of competitive balance. Scouting report?
I hit .760 in my slow pitch softball league leading off and playing CF around 25 years ago. I am much slower and wider now.
 
Why should he be reasonable? He has his padawan bent over a barrel and there's nothing Bloom can do about it. He doesn't get Mookie Betts, he still has the odds-on-favorite to win the National League. Bloom's bosses have made it pretty clear that they want to cut payroll and this is the only team that is going to take Betts AND Price off his hands. Bloom has to make this deal more than Friedman does, which is why these boasts of, "I'm taking Mookie off the table" are so laughable. Fine, go ahead, now you're where you were two weeks ago, only no your superstar free agent is pissed at you that you tried to deal him and the moody pitcher, who has 10/5 rights in a few months is also annoyed.

Friedman has no obligation to make this easy for Bloom and TBH, if Friedman really wanted to be an asshole, he'd offer him less.

I have to say that if the first major transaction of Chaim Bloom is any indication, we're in for a long, dumb tenure with our new GM. I'm not even remotely impressed, this has been a disaster.
Not sure this is fair. Bloom has apparently been ordered to move Betts. An extremely limited number of teams are in a position to do business with him. His objective is to maximize return for a player who has stated he won't resign until after he goes to free agency. The options are to wait that player out and collect a low draft pick or to trade him now for something better. Verdugo and Graterol clearly meet that standard, and if Graterol had been in better shape, this would have been an OK deal. The fact that Graterol isn't healthy doesn't implicate Bloom, who (if I'm recalling correctly from Speier's piece) wouldn't have seen the medicals until after the trade was agreed to.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I sort of feel as though there will be enough time and space to evaluate Bloom after the deal gets done. We're all dealing in half information.
 

DJnVa

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This is a giant hedging pile of nothing from someone I have never heard of. Why are we sharing this?
I can't speak for this guy, but CLNS Media does a lot of work in Boston. It's not out of the question that he knows people.
 

RedOctober3829

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"Suddenly not as good", so basically, we pretty much made the deal, THEN did our due diligence and it turns out, it kind of sucks.

Henry: So what happened to the deal Chaim?
Bloom: Turns out it wasn't a good one. Weird huh?
Henry: Then why did you attempt to make that deal in the first place?
Bloom: Uhm, you see. The thing about that is ...
Kasten: So what happened to the deal Andrew?
Friedman: The Red Sox insisted on more compensation after Graterol's medicals came back worse than they thought. Deal fell apart because they wanted an additional minor league guy.
Kasten: We have a really good farm system, right? There must have been somebody you could've part with that would make them happy. I'm sick of getting to the World Series and losing.
Friedman: Uhm.....because I don't want to?
 

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"Suddenly not as good", so basically, we pretty much made the deal, THEN did our due diligence and it turns out, it kind of sucks.

Henry: So what happened to the deal Chaim?
Bloom: Turns out it wasn't a good one. Weird huh?
Henry: Then why did you attempt to make that deal in the first place?
Bloom: Uhm, you see. The thing about that is ...
Henry is (a) in the loop every step of the way, (b) has the final say on what Bloom puts in front of him, and (c) is quite aware the deal Bloom made might be the *only* deal to be made that meets the goal of getting Betts's and Price's salaries off the books.

Honestly, the supposition that Bloom is blindly getting taken to the cleaners by Friedman and leaving something better out there on the table is exquisitely SoSHian.
 

DJnVa

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So, to catch up, we're mad that Sox are trading Mookie but also mad the trade might fall through?
 

jon abbey

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Kasten: So what happened to the deal Andrew?
Friedman: The Red Sox insisted on more compensation after Graterol's medicals came back worse than they thought. Deal fell apart because they wanted an additional minor league guy.
Kasten: We have a really good farm system, right? There must have been somebody you could've part with that would make them happy. I'm sick of getting to the World Series and losing.
Friedman: Uhm.....because I don't want to?
It does seem like there is an ego thing going on at times with these GMs, I agree that LA should be able to find a prospect around #12 or #15 or whatever and finish this, but Friedman seems like he doesn't want to 'give in' to his former subordinate.
 

JM3

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Pederson lost his arb case so his salary is only $7.75m. Wonder if Moreno is angered because he might have to give up a better +1 now to complete the deal at the lower compensation level.
 

bankshot1

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Kasten: So what happened to the deal Andrew?
Friedman: The Red Sox insisted on more compensation after Graterol's medicals came back worse than they thought. Deal fell apart because they wanted an additional minor league guy.
Kasten: We have a really good farm system, right? There must have been somebody you could've part with that would make them happy. I'm sick of getting to the World Series and losing.
Friedman: Uhm.....because I don't want to?
Exactly what I was driving at.

Another decent prospect to get this done for a team swimming in good prospects doesn't seem outlandish for a team that wants one of the best players in the game.

"Lose" the trade to win the war.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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"Suddenly not as good", so basically, we pretty much made the deal, THEN did our due diligence and it turns out, it kind of sucks.

Henry: So what happened to the deal Chaim?
Bloom: Turns out it wasn't a good one. Weird huh?
Henry: Then why did you attempt to make that deal in the first place?
Bloom: Uhm, you see. The thing about that is ...
Isn't the answer that it turned out not to be as good because they thought they were putting a top-flight arm in system but it turns out he may top out at reliever.

I really think "this is why we have medical review contingencies John" is a pretty easy answer.
 

NickEsasky

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I can't speak for this guy, but CLNS Media does a lot of work in Boston. It's not out of the question that he knows people.
Ok fair enough, but the content of the tweet was also worthless. Sources tell me that if things don't change that there is an ok chance that this deal falls through. You could replant Sanford Stadium with all those hedges.
 

jon abbey

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Pederson lost his arb case so his salary is only $7.75m. Wonder if Moreno is angered because he might have to give up a better +1 now to complete the deal at the lower compensation level.
It was reported yesterday that whether he won or lost wouldn't change the LAD/LAA deal.
 

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It does seem like there is an ego thing going on at times with these GMs, I agree that LA should be able to find a prospect around #12 or #15 or whatever and finish this, but Friedman seems like he doesn't want to 'give in' to his former subordinate.
Meh. If the roles were reversed, we'd all be splooging about how Bloom arrived at a reasonable price for the asset he's trying to acquire and sticking to it. It's just buisness, and Friedman is good at it---not because he's dicking Bloom around, but because he's sticking to his price.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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FTFY:

Kasten: So what happened to the deal Andrew?
Friedman: The Red Sox insisted on more compensation after Graterol's medicals came back worse than they thought. Deal fell apart because they wanted an additional minor league guy.
Kasten: The Red Sox wanted more? They should have asked for more initially. Yeah, I agree. Fuck 'em.
Friedman: Love that Dodger blue, Boss.
 

SouthernBoSox

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FTFY:

Kasten: So what happened to the deal Andrew?
Friedman: The Red Sox insisted on more compensation after Graterol's medicals came back worse than they thought. Deal fell apart because they wanted an additional minor league guy.
Kasten: The Red Sox wanted more? They should have asked for more initially. Yeah, I agree. Fuck 'em.
Friedman: Love that Dodger blue, Boss.
Yea I just don’t think this is right:

The have a chance to DRASTICALLY improve their team and all that’s standing in the way is probably a 6-10 system prospect.
 

DanoooME

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Exactly what I was driving at.

Another decent prospect to get this done for a team swimming in good prospects doesn't seem outlandish for a team that wants one of the best players in the game.

"Lose" the trade to win the war.
If he wants to pull a Cherington and keep all of his prospects until most of them become worthless, that's his prerogative.

I mean, they have so many good prospects, that they wouldn't have room for most of them anyway, so it makes no sense to be so frugal about it. Mookie Betts is exactly the kind of guy you cash in your secondary prospects for. I mean, who else is he going to deal for in the next year or so? They've got most of the roster tied up already. Their only FAs after this season (aside from Mookie) are going to be Justin Turner, Blake Treinen, Kike Hernandez, Alex Wood, Pedro Baez and Jimmy Nelson. Treinen and Nelson are one year bullpen fliers that they are taking chances on. Vargas likely replaces Turner, and there really isn't another slot in the lineup that needs filling with guys like Ruiz, Estevez, and Peters knocking on the door with nowhere to go.
 

bankshot1

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If Kasten takes JMOH's approach, (fuck 'em) the Dodgers under his watch may become just like the 90s Atlanta Braves under his watch.

How many times does he want to lose in the WS?

Lose the trade, win the war.
 

nighthob

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"Suddenly not as good", so basically, we pretty much made the deal, THEN did our due diligence and it turns out, it kind of sucks.

Henry: So what happened to the deal Chaim?
Bloom: Turns out it wasn't a good one. Weird huh?
Henry: Then why did you attempt to make that deal in the first place?
Bloom: Uhm, you see. The thing about that is ...
I’m sorry, how were they supposed to see Graterol’s medical reports before the trade negotiations happened? Was he supposed to call up Thad Levine and say, “Hey, we’re thinking of acquiring Graterol in a trade with the Dodgers, could you forward us his medical reports?”

“Wait, we traded Graterol to the Dodgers?”

“According to Andy you did.”

“What did we get for him?”
 

OurF'ingCity

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FTFY:

Kasten: So what happened to the deal Andrew?
Friedman: The Red Sox insisted on more compensation after Graterol's medicals came back worse than they thought. Deal fell apart because they wanted an additional minor league guy.
Kasten: The Red Sox wanted more? They should have asked for more initially. Yeah, I agree. Fuck 'em.
Friedman: Love that Dodger blue, Boss.
This doesn't really make sense. Why should they have asked for more initially if they didn't know about Graterol's medical issues at the time, or at least the extent of them? The Sox thought they were doing a trade of Mookie + Price = major-league ready outfielder + virtually-major-league ready starting pitcher. But now they know, which they apparently didn't before, that the trade actually would be Mookie + Price = major-league ready outfielder + virtually-major-league ready reliever. That's a big difference.

I'd be in complete agreement with you if the Sox were now trying to blow up the trade because they hadn't done their due diligence on Verdugo's issues and now had buyer's remorse. But it's hard to blame Bloom or the Sox for not knowing something that wasn't public knowledge at the time the trade was initially agreed to.
 

nighthob

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FTFY:

Kasten: So what happened to the deal Andrew?
Friedman: The Red Sox insisted on more compensation after Graterol's medicals came back worse than they thought. Deal fell apart because they wanted an additional minor league guy.
Kasten: The Red Sox wanted more? They should have asked for more initially. Yeah, I agree. Fuck 'em.
Friedman: Love that Dodger blue, Boss.
Clearly when billionaires buy sports teams their dream is to continuously finish second.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Clearly when billionaires buy sports teams their dream is to continuously finish second.
When a billionaire buys a sports team, their dream is to continuously make money. Everything else is secondary. The Dodgers are making money hand over fist and have been doing so since 1989. Winning a World Series is nice, but it's not like Kasten is Jean Yawkey or Mike Ilitch and is looking to win one title before going to the big mansion in the sky.
 

amfox1

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So, to catch up, we're mad that Sox are trading Mookie but also mad the trade might fall through?
And that once the trade falls through the Red Sox go into fire sale mode until they get under the luxury tax threshold.

And that Betts will be asked every day about re-signing with the Red Sox at the end of the year.

And that every other player will be asked every day about Betts and Price being traded and then untraded.

And that every other player will be asked about the possibility of being traded in the fire sale.

And that the season is doomed before it even begins, trade or no trade.

But no Verdugo, so the Red Sox don't have any "awful" people on the team (wink, wink).
 
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Wasn't that part way to Jeremy Jacob's business model?

Good enough to keep the fans interested and ticket sales up, not good enough to have to pay superstars to stick around.
Yup. Sinden wouldn't have tendered a contract to JBJ. In replacement, the Sox would have signed Hunter Pence to a deal for half the value and twice the length. Absolutely would have taken Mookie to arbitration like he did Ray Bourque back in the day. Before the salary cap, there were probably only one or two professional sports organizations more shameful than the Bruins.
 
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nighthob

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And that once the trade falls through the Red Sox go into fire sale mode until they get under the luxury tax threshold.

And that Betts will be asked every day about re-signing with the Red Sox at the end of the year.

And that every other player will be asked every day about Betts and Price being traded and then untraded.

And that every other player will be asked about the possibility of being traded in the fire sale.

And that the season is doomed before it even begins, trade or no trade.

But no Verdugo, so the Red Sox don't have any "awful" people on the team (wink, wink).
Or, you know, they just say screw it, we’re going for it one last time and then sell Betts off at the deadline and aim to re-set the luxury tax in ‘21. They can very likely get two injured players for Mookie in July.
 

nvalvo

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Or, you know, they just say screw it, we’re going for it one last time and then sell Betts off at the deadline and aim to re-set the luxury tax in ‘21. They can very likely get two injured players for Mookie in July.
This is what I would have done.

The risk, however, is that Price gets hurt or underperforms and then locks in his 10-5 rights, and then we're stuck with him, which makes the payroll less manageable going forward.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Or, you know, they just say screw it, we’re going for it one last time and then sell Betts off at the deadline and aim to re-set the luxury tax in ‘21. They can very likely get two injured players for Mookie in July.
Agreed, I'm all for this deal blowing up. I appreciate different levels to this---they likely are concerned about ability to sign Mookie, they may or may not like his projected performance curve up against the contract, they want to get younger, they may want Price gone (and certainly want his contract gone), they have a rep that may be impacted if deal falls through, bringing them back now tougher etc. And I still hope it blows up.
 

bankshot1

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When a billionaire buys a sports team, their dream is to continuously make money. Everything else is secondary. The Dodgers are making money hand over fist and have been doing so since 1989. Winning a World Series is nice, but it's not like Kasten is Jean Yawkey or Mike Ilitch and is looking to win one title before going to the big mansion in the sky.
There is a theory in economics about marginal utility. Basically it hopes to address, how desirable or valuable (or price paid) is an apple to a guy who is really hungry versus a guy with an apple farm? And the conclusion is the marginal utility declines as the commodity increases.

So while making the next $million is clearly of value to a billionaire, I would suspect that the greatest marginal utility for the billionaire who buys a sports team might not be $ but rather a ring.

So asking him for an extra apple might not be so outlandish, particularly when the one of the apples originally tendered had a bite taken out of it.
 
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amRadio

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Am I the only person who doesn't totally understand the Players Union statement on this? This isn't unprecedented.
 

NomarsFool

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Am I the only person who doesn't totally understand the Players Union statement on this? This isn't unprecedented.
No, you're not the only one. Maybe the union always does this, and this just happens to be about a trade involving a much bigger name player so we hear about it. But, the medical discussion hardly seems that unusual.
 

NomarsFool

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So while making the next $million is clearly of value to a billionaire, I would suspect that the greatest marginal utility for the billionaire who buys a sports team might not be $ but rather a ring.
Billionaires differ, of course, but I've heard people talk about how for these people it is usually less about making an annual operating profit, but about owning teams because it buys them entrance into a very exclusive club. That gives them both status and also additional business opportunities. In addition, the owners of the Red Sox will make tons more profit in capital gains when they sell, than they will make on operational profit. It's not even close.
 

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When a billionaire buys a sports team, their dream is to continuously make money. Everything else is secondary. The Dodgers are making money hand over fist and have been doing so since 1989. Winning a World Series is nice, but it's not like Kasten is Jean Yawkey or Mike Ilitch and is looking to win one title before going to the big mansion in the sky.
If that's the case then your conversation would be something more like

Henry: So what happened to the deal Chaim?
Bloom: Turns out it wasn't a good one. Weird huh?
Henry: Then why did you attempt to make that deal in the first place?
Bloom: Uhm, you see. The thing about that is that we got a look at the medicals, and the pitcher's arm might snap off at the shoulder during spring training.
Henry: But the Dodgers are still taking Price and we're still off-loading both salaries?
Bloom: Yep.
Henry: Outstanding work, Chaim. Be sure to send the kid a gift basket from us while he's in the hospital.
 

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There is a theory in economics about marginal utility. Basically it hopes to address, how desirable or valuable (or price paid) is an apple to a guy who is really hungry versus a guy with an apple farm? And the conclusion is the marginal utility declines as the commodity increases.
Unfortunately, this equally explains why farmer Friedman might not be as eager to add Boston's apple to his bushel basket as we all assume he is.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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If that's the case then your conversation would be something more like

Henry: So what happened to the deal Chaim?
Bloom: Turns out it wasn't a good one. Weird huh?
Henry: Then why did you attempt to make that deal in the first place?
Bloom: Uhm, you see. The thing about that is that we got a look at the medicals, and the pitcher's arm might snap off at the shoulder during spring training.
Henry: But the Dodgers are still taking Price and we're still off-loading both salaries?
Bloom: Yep.
Henry: Outstanding work, Chaim. Be sure to send the kid a gift basket from us while he's in the hospital.
#notallbillionaires
 

Twalk

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Why?

Maybe the Dodgers really like Verdugo. Maybe they think they're going to get Mookie next year anyway. Maybe they're ambivalent about Price even with the subsidy. Who knows?

I know the Dodgers and their fan base are eager for a title. I question how much pressure those fans will put on the team if this deal falls through. I don't know how much of that pressure exists in LA outside of the Lakers. I also think the cheating scandals takes some of the pressure off. Fans can convince themselves that the team would have been good enough to win one already, and it is easier for them to direct their hate at opposing teams than it is the laundry.

edit: I mean, damn. Friedman is running the show there. He's done a great job in LA. He isn't getting fired for holding a firm line on a trade.
I live in Dodger country. There is some real pressure. Its nothing like Boston. The weather is way too nice for LA fans to get as passionate as fans in cold weather places with a team that has been dissected and talked about winter after winter for generations. The pressure is ready to explode by the time spring rolls around. Could you imagine if the Red Sox lost two series with a major scandal involved? Good grief.

Regarding your scandal comment, I already became some what of a Giant's fan because Dodger fans drive me crazy living in their world. post-scandal they have become intolerable. The most frustrating narrative out of this is Mookie coming to LA is a make up for the Sox cheating them out of the series. Yes, my Dodger fan friends are saying it half joking but i'm hearing it so often from so many people that even the thought of Mookie in pinstripes, beating the Dodgers next fall made me smirk. Something is seriously wrong when the thought of Mookie in pinstripes did anything but give me a panic attack.
 

effectivelywild

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Or the conversation might go like this:

Henry: So what happened to the deal Chaim?
Bloom: Turns out it wasn't a good one. Weird huh?
Henry: What's even weirder is that we're having this highly unlikely made up conversation in the first place?
Bloom: I guess some people just like to imagine scenarios in whcih I come out looking like a moron.
Henry: I'm hiring them immediately to take over your job
 
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