Biggest Sox Prospect Busts by Position
- Thread starter The Talented Allen Ripley
- Start date
Close. Jeff Gray and he was a pitcher.
And wasn't a prospect. Maybe you are talking about someone else.
I think a lot of guys mentioned in this thread never really were prospects. Over categorizing people as prospects is what leads people to say things like TINSTAAPP.
Brian Rose and Bobby Sprowl were prospects who never lived up to their AAA numbers.
At catcher, I would say John Marzano. He had a 755 OPS at a 23 year old at AA and and 834 in half a season as as a 24 year old at AAA finishing that year with a nice 170 PA stint in Boston at a 688 OPS. Then,, nothing.
If. I were making the rules, those would be the parameters I’d set. Strong age-appropriate success at AA and AAA that didn’t translate.
Brian Rose and Bobby Sprowl were prospects who never lived up to their AAA numbers.
At catcher, I would say John Marzano. He had a 755 OPS at a 23 year old at AA and and 834 in half a season as as a 24 year old at AAA finishing that year with a nice 170 PA stint in Boston at a 688 OPS. Then,, nothing.
If. I were making the rules, those would be the parameters I’d set. Strong age-appropriate success at AA and AAA that didn’t translate.
Yeah you might be right, now that I think of it I think I was conflating him and Carlos Quintana. But you’re right he was a pitcher.
Wasn’t Matt White the guy who found out a parcel of land he bought had some super-rare stone potentially worth billions?
He did save Clemens' bacon when someone charged the mound in the early 90s.
A close second...Marc Sullivan, a highly touted second round pick.
There are 3 classes of players that don't pan out:
- Highly touted prospects that blow through the minors but then fizzle out when they hit the majors. I think that is mainly the criteria that Chad Finn was using.
- Highly drafted players that perform well in the early minors, get rushed to the majors and fizzle out. Bobby Sprowl belongs here. There is an interesting thought exercise about the course of history had the Sox drafted Mookie Wilson, who was selected only a few picks later. Also, yes, it is correct that Hall of Famers Ozzie Smith and Tim Raines were picked in later rounds in that same draft, but by definition lots of teams passed on those players. The baseball draft was almost a completely random crapshoot back then.
- Players that should never have been drafted that high in the first place. Marc "Thanks Dad" Sullivan belongs here.
Juan Bustabad really fits none of those criteria, so I suspect that the earlier poster was right and it was a name thing.
SoxProsects had him as the 3rd and 4th ranked prospect in the organization in 2004, ahead of Lester, Papelbon, and Manny Delcarmen, among others.
I feel like this page is required reading for this thread:
https://soxprospects.com/history.htm
The biggest prospect bust, in my Sox lifetime, was Tony Horton. Going into Spring Training of 1964, the "Tony" that was judged to have the best chance of making the club was Horton and not Conigliaro. Both Tony's had outstanding seasons in their first year of pro ball, but Tony C's was in the NY-Penn League, while Tony Horton's year was at Elmira. Horton, just a month older than Conigliaro, had a rough Spring Training, playing 1st base, while Tony C impressed big time. Horton did make the big club later in 1964, but never had any success in parts of the next 3 seasons with the Sox.
Horton's tenure with the Sox organization ended at the June 1967 trade deadline, when he was sent to Cleveland to secure pitching depth. He actually went on to have some success with the Indians over the next 3 seasons, but couldn't deal with the stress of pro baseball. After a bad night on the field, and booing from the fans, Horton was said to have attempted suicide and the left the game for good.
Back in 1964, as a ten year old, I would have given anything to be either of those 19 year old Tony's. Tragic careers for both of them.
Horton's tenure with the Sox organization ended at the June 1967 trade deadline, when he was sent to Cleveland to secure pitching depth. He actually went on to have some success with the Indians over the next 3 seasons, but couldn't deal with the stress of pro baseball. After a bad night on the field, and booing from the fans, Horton was said to have attempted suicide and the left the game for good.
Back in 1964, as a ten year old, I would have given anything to be either of those 19 year old Tony's. Tragic careers for both of them.
What about Ryan M.F. Dent., 2007 #1, 62nd overall, Signing bonus: $571,500.
If he hadn't played for Lowell, he wouldn't have ever stepped foot in Massachusetts.
If he hadn't played for Lowell, he wouldn't have ever stepped foot in Massachusetts.
Oh, man, I forgot all about him. He ended up being a poor man's Iggy Suarez at Portland, I think.
I remember Sam Bowen was mentioned in the preseason prospects list, and they made him sound like Tony C. I didn't realize the writers tried to make it sound like each team had HOFers in their system. Looking him up he hit for power in AAA but was not in AAA until he was 24. No way he should have been hyped. I remember in 1978 he hit a homer one game and I thought he was going to Hurricane Hazel the Sox to the Series. I remember being excited when he was a pinch runner on TV against the Jays that year. My sister still bugs me because I said, "I will always remember the first time I saw Sam Bowen play on TV." I do, just not for the reasons I'd hoped.
Scott Cooper, anyone? [I scanned the previous posts and don't see his name anywhere.] Considering the ramifications of his supposed status, that has to matter.
Espinoza makes the list for me. Injuries out of one's control were disqualifiers, but shouldn't TJ surgery be categorized differently? It's a direct consequence of pitchers doing things they got hyped for on the first place but were beyond what their body could handle. Or maybe that's only true in some cases.
Espinoza makes the list for me. Injuries out of one's control were disqualifiers, but shouldn't TJ surgery be categorized differently? It's a direct consequence of pitchers doing things they got hyped for on the first place but were beyond what their body could handle. Or maybe that's only true in some cases.
You mean All-Star Scott Cooper. Maybe, he did have somewhat of a MLB career though.
I mentioned Espinoza earlier. I think another reason people are overlooking him is because he brought value back in a trade and he wasn't really in Boston for long. Jay Groome could end up on that list too.
Bryce Brentz doesn't belong on a team but probably deserves a mention. Deven Marrero.
And how can anyone forget the great lengths the Redsox went through to keep Adam Stern. Ugh. Why?
He easily makes it over the Horn/Plantier/Middlebrooks line. We think of him as a bust mostly because he was the reason why Bagwell was deemed expendable. But it's not fair to blame him for Lou Gorman's mistakes. He wasn't a bust, just a mediocre player (7 years, 2000+ PA, 91 OPS+, 6.2 brWAR).
Two-time All-Star Scott Cooper, no less.
Man, those early-90s Sox teams were godawful.
Ha! I forgot about his ASG appearances. Both of those years he had an OPS+ of 98! What a stud.
I do think that the delta we are measuring is expectations versus reality, which means one of the parameters is inherently subjective and unfair. That's the part that harms Cooper's perception. But I guess Middlebrooks got similar treatment and did less.
Back in the .com days I wrote a piece about John Marzano -- and to do so I had to go back and read Gammo's coverage of the young catcher's rise through the minors. Old Hickory's descriptions of Marzano's physique, his grace, his broad shoulders....they were nearly erotic.
Just thought of another guy who was incredibly overrated and possibly a candidate for starting 3b.
Michael Almanzar. He was supposed to be the next great thing even though his results never warranted it.
Michael Almanzar. He was supposed to be the next great thing even though his results never warranted it.
Gah. I was just coming to mention him. Ghastly. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/checoro01.shtml
That is a really good one. He was absolutely dream worthy in those 100 PA as a 17 year old in the Gulf Coast League!
Decent in A+ at 21 and competent in AA at 22.
Sorry to ask a question, but many of you know this stuff much better than me. In my card collecting days I was burned by Baseball America's hype on Karim Garcia (I know who?) and bought his rookie cards. People are pretty sure he was 3 years older than he said so he was raking in AA as a 22 yer old not a 19 year old.
Are there any Sox buts that were like this, guys that were perhaps older than first thought?
Are there any Sox buts that were like this, guys that were perhaps older than first thought?
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Casey Kelly, the rich man’s Trey Ball. Never understood why they didn’t have Ball develop as a two way player like they did with Kelly. The first couple years of Kelly’s career they had him play SS in the GCL and AFL after he’d used up his innings limit. I guess Ball pitched so badly he never hit his innings limit.
Billy Consolo, 2B - signed as a Bonus Baby for $60k out of high school in 1953 when several other teams were also offering him big money. Per the rules at the time, Consolo was immediately added to the MLB roster and started playing as a utility IF. He never got beyond that role. In 6.5 years with the Sox, he got 698 PAs and 184 total bases, good for a .608 OPS and -1.0 WAR.
In 1959, Consolo and Murray Wall got shipped to Washington for Dick Hyde and Herb Plews. Three days later Wall and Hyde got sent back to their original teams due to Hyde having a dead arm. Plews also turned out to have an arm injury that limited him to 13 games and retiring at the end of the season. Consolo then played for 5 teams over the next 3 season before retiring home to LA to take over his father's barbershop.
Years later Consolo would get a call from his old high school teammate, Sparky Anderson, asking him to become bench coach. Consolo was with the Tigers from 1979-1992 before retiring for good back to California.
In 1959, Consolo and Murray Wall got shipped to Washington for Dick Hyde and Herb Plews. Three days later Wall and Hyde got sent back to their original teams due to Hyde having a dead arm. Plews also turned out to have an arm injury that limited him to 13 games and retiring at the end of the season. Consolo then played for 5 teams over the next 3 season before retiring home to LA to take over his father's barbershop.
Years later Consolo would get a call from his old high school teammate, Sparky Anderson, asking him to become bench coach. Consolo was with the Tigers from 1979-1992 before retiring for good back to California.
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Hard to consider someone a bust when they are traded two years into their professional career. And after straining his elbow shortly into his Padres career, he needed Tommy John less than a year later. Who knows what could have happened
Almamzar is a bad pick, he was a Latin American sign who did really well against age appropriate competition who failed as he went up the ladder. That's normal.
I don't fault the guy, but if you're gonna hit a July 2nd sign, the easy choice is Joelse Vinicio.
Athletic SS with good bat to ball skills at 16
The thought at the time was that as he filled out that he'd be a star. 6 years later, he was still 160 soaking wet. Dude was a small 16 year old, and a small adult. Great skills as a kid, though.
I don't fault the guy, but if you're gonna hit a July 2nd sign, the easy choice is Joelse Vinicio.
Athletic SS with good bat to ball skills at 16
The thought at the time was that as he filled out that he'd be a star. 6 years later, he was still 160 soaking wet. Dude was a small 16 year old, and a small adult. Great skills as a kid, though.
I remember Juan Pena getting some hype. Looking back, his stats weren't great in the minors, but he was striking people out at a good rate and was young. He had a great two starts in '99 then got injured during a promising '00 Spring Training. He never made it back.
I always liked how he threw.
I always liked how he threw.
We watched him beat someone (Yankees?) at a sports bar in Providenciales and looked forward to years of his future success
Wasn't he a compensation pick for losing Bruce Hurst or something? I thought there was some reason I was particularly hoping he'd do well.
That's exactly what he was. 29th pick in the first round, a supplemental pick for losing Bruce Hurst to free agency.
Edit: NVM. I'm still bitter about Hurst leaving, but there is at least some evidence that the Sox offered more than the Padres did and it was on Hurst for making that choice. I guess it would have been nice to get some compensation out of that but hey, it's not like we're Padres fans.
My parents lived several houses away from Hurst. IIRC, word on the street was that his family did not like living in Boston, so the Sox were definitely disadvantaged in trying to resign him.
I thought Kevin Morton was going to Roger Clemens Jr. Pretty sure I had a rookie card of his that I thought was going to be worth something.
Mike Brown was another for whom I had high hopes. I kept waiting for him to break out and instead he just got worse and worse.
I thought Kevin Morton was going to Roger Clemens Jr. Pretty sure I had a rookie card of his that I thought was going to be worth something.
Mike Brown was another for whom I had high hopes. I kept waiting for him to break out and instead he just got worse and worse.
I remember waiting anxiously every week for the Sunday Globe to read about the latest exploits of Michael Coleman and Donnie Sadler. What a different information age that was.
I remember in high school going to summer school in New Hampshire and eagerly waiting for one day old NY Times to read about the games from two days prior, that must have been the early eighties.
Nudging Hust out the door was another of Haywood Sullivan's fine achievements running the club.
There was a stretch where it seemed like first round picks were wasted on local kids. Rich Asaadorian (sp) was one... from the baseball hotbed of Whitinsville, MA. Appears like I was thinking of Brad Baker out of Western MA as the other, which was the same year (taken a few slots before Awesome Fossum [the [player, not the poster] ).
Indeed. It's funny how so many guys who leave come back in retirement to coach or advise or whatever for the Sox (as Hurst has). He missed the excitement. Also, being close to family isn't everything, especially when you have five months off and millions of dollars. The '88 and '90 Sox would have had a chance with him, although probably still wouldn't have gotten past Oakland.