Board pulse on if Pats pick "the other guy"

Where do you land?


  • Total voters
    227
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
39,019
I feel like I need more info to decide.

I prefer Johnson, I think Vrabel is a good coach, I want to know what else each brings and what else the Krafts are doing to know how I feel.

If it was Johnson (I really doubt it) and they brought nobody in the front office, nobody on business side, and his DC/OC/STC were all unproven guys and no experienced guys in the room.... I'd hate it.
If it is Vrabel (I assume it will be) and they just add Ryan Cowden to the front office, and Vrabel is guaranteed final roster say.... they bring in Josh McDaniels, staff up with guys from the good old days.... I'd be unhappy.

Ideally, for me? It's Johnson, with additions to the front office (maybe Dorsey, maybe Agnew, maybe one of the more analyst based guys to be under Wolf) and he brings a staff with at least 1 very experienced guy.

If it's Vrabel, and they bring in a good GM/exec who comes with an expanded staff, that GM has final personnel say, and they bring in a good OC.... I'd be cautiously optimistic.
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
7,774
CA
I actually prefer the known commodity that is Mike Vrabel, but will be fine with the unknown commodity that is Ben Johnson, “Offensive Phenom”.

It feels like RKK is looking for an established HC in the NFL and is not going to take the risk on a young OC with no HC experience, but I would be fine if they did so. I think the Patriots are in a pretty good position — are not as far away to being playoff contenders as some on the board think, and should be a pretty exciting team to watch grow and hopefully contend, the next 2-3 years. I think Vrable with a good OC gets us there faster.
 

Eric1984

my real name is Ben
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2001
3,625
Johnson but I'd be OK with Vrabel.

In the current game, I'd rather have the younger, more innovative offensive mind with tremendous potential upside (assuming he's surrounded by good assistants) working with Maye. Vrabel strikes me as someone like a Dave Wannstedt or Jack Del Rio -- a meathead .500-overall type who will coach periodically good teams that don't end up doing a hell of a lot.
 

Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
I'm team "Build a strong organization with clear roles and accountability" and was interested in Johnson both as an offensive mind to pair with Maye and as a step in that direction

If it's Vrabel (and everyone seems to think it will be), I'll try and construct an optimistic story along the lines of:
  • Wolf and Highsmith may be trying to build a more professional, adequately-staffed front office that corrects for the Belichick-dependent aspects of the former order. Given time they may be successful, and the quality of our drafts and free agent signings go up.
  • Jonathan may be more receptive to updating how things are done than Bob, and investment in positions/personnel and elsewhere follows
  • Vrabel will assemble a strong/experienced coaching staff that this team sorely needs to get the most out of its young talent
  • Vrabel's strengths as a coach (intelligence, attention to detail, focusing people on what matters, teaching/developing) are decent fits for a team that's going to have a bunch of young players that need direction and cohesion
  • Excellence in game plan and in-game adjustments may depend on the quality of the Coordinators. If that's a pair like McDaniels and Saleh, OK, both will probably be better than last year. And this doesn't change that keeping high-quality Coordinators can be challenging, if either would rather be a HC somewhere else (college or pros)
I'm not saying that's going to be what happens.

But if I squint and tilt my head a certain way I can see how the dominoes might all fall that way. And then the next few years may see steady improvement and we might get a lot more high-quality football
 

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
13,085
My Desk
After 5 years of watching the offense sputter, I'm on the Johnson train. We have the quarterback. We need some players. And we need a coach who can drive the car on the offensive side of the ball. I'm also fine with Vrabel especially if he comes with McDaniels. And doubly so if he comes with McDaniels and Saleh.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
41,239
Hingham, MA
After 5 years of watching the offense sputter, I'm on the Johnson train. We have the quarterback. We need some players. And we need a coach who can drive the car on the offensive side of the ball. I'm also fine with Vrabel especially if he comes with McDaniels. And doubly so if he comes with McDaniels and Saleh.
The beauty of Josh is that he is zero risk to ever leave.
 

shoosh77

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2009
4,621
New Canaan, CT
I’m on the Johnson train, but would like them to pair him with Robert Saleh to run the def. Allow Johnson to focus on the offense and specifically maximizing Maye, let Saleh do his thing on the def side (and get two shots a year at Woody) and also having a former HC around.

Also, attracting offensive FA talent maybe assisted knowing they get to work in Johnson’s system vs someone else’s.
 

Gash Prex

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 18, 2002
7,352
I’d prefer Johnson - but with Vrabel I assume (hope) they are looking to mirror the Detroit model of a “leader of men” surrounded by talented coaches.

My concerns with Vrabel continue to be his lack of offensive expertise, conservative style informed by his playing days, and his poor ending/relationship with folks in Ten. He seems like a bit of an ass at times (like BB).
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
10,042
After 5 years of watching the offense sputter, I'm on the Johnson train. We have the quarterback. We need some players. And we need a coach who can drive the car on the offensive side of the ball. I'm also fine with Vrabel especially if he comes with McDaniels. And doubly so if he comes with McDaniels and Saleh.
Hire Vrabel and target the next Ben Johnson for OC. All the wunderkind offensive guys don't get instantly poached and run off for the first HC jobs that come calling. See: Johnson, Ben.
 

Dollar

Member
SoSH Member
May 5, 2006
12,438
Hire Vrabel and target the next Ben Johnson for OC. All the wunderkind offensive guys don't get instantly poached and run off for the first HC jobs that come calling. See: Johnson, Ben.
This is where I am. I hope they asked Johnson in the interview who he would choose to bring on as OC, and the Pats can go ahead and grab him now to add him to Vrabel's staff. Not that it would ever happen, but a man can dream.
 

jsinger121

@jsinger121
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
18,620
I’d prefer Johnson - but with Vrabel I assume (hope) they are looking to mirror the Detroit model of a “leader of men” surrounded by talented coaches.

My concerns with Vrabel continue to be his lack of offensive expertise, conservative style informed by his playing days, and his poor ending/relationship with folks in Ten. He seems like a bit of an ass at times (like BB).
He worked with the OL and TE in Cleveland this year. This team needs an asshole after the clown show soft tenure of Jerod Mayo not holding any players accountable.
 

FL4WL3SS

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
15,660
Andy Brickley's potty mouth
Vrable + McDaniels > Ben Johnson and whoever he brings. Yes Ben Johnson is a great offensive mind, but he'll need strong staff around him as he'll be busy running the team. I think Vrable brings stability and he's a good coach.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
39,019
Vrable + McDaniels > Ben Johnson and whoever he brings. Yes Ben Johnson is a great offensive mind, but he'll need strong staff around him as he'll be busy running the team. I think Vrable brings stability and he's a good coach.
Honestly if it were something like Johnson and John Fox, I'd strongly prefer it. I think way too many people are putting too much weight on "have to be good year 1" vs... who is better over the life of his 4-5 year contract.
 

Curtis Pride

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,464
Watertown, MA
I prefer Vrabel because he is available now, while Johnson might not be available until after the Super Bowl. Vrabel has the advantage of building a coaching staff when more OC’s and DC’s are available to be hired. it may be a choice between Vrabel with a full coaching staff and Johnson with lesser assistants.

If you don’t mind the growing pains of a first-time head coach with a more limited coaching staff for the first year, then you can wait for Johnson to get better assistant coaches the following year. It would be like the Celtics’ first season with Joe Mazzulla.

Besides, the Patriots need to build up their administrative staff (personnel and scouting) to acquire more talented players. As BB often said, it’s the players that win the games.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.