Bobby Valentine 10 years later - NBC 10 Boston web documentary

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Ortiz went down with his heel injury on July 16th. They promptly lost 7 of 10 before they recovered with that 4 game winning streak to close out July. And of course Valentine alienated Papi by insinuating his injury wasn't that serious; I think the front office essentially shut Ortiz down for the season in August over Valentine's objections.
I was in attendance at Papi's last game in 2012 before he shut it down, he rocketed a ball off the Wall and was limping pretty badly all the way to second. He really couldn't move at all and it was clear the injury was very serious.

Naturally Valentine insinuated that Ortiz wasn't tough enough to play through it. As always, what an asshole.
 

worm0082

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I’ll never forget that game where he left Lester in to give up something like 11 runs, or that west coast trip around mid-end August where it seemed we were getting destroyed by 10+ runs a game by the A’s and Seattle. He should have been fired then before they came home. How he finished out the season is beyond me.
 

joe dokes

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BTW, the whole Bard as a starter thing was maybe mishandled by Bobby V but the word was he did not like it and the FO forced his hand (which may be the only thing he got right if true).
I have the same recollection. He also correctly figured that Youkilis was toast-adjacent, but, as he did with everything, mishandled it. (Didn't he ascribe it to "not looking like he cared" or something?)

One thing that his tenure made clear and that Farrell's end reinforced for me, is that "dealing with" the players is probably more important than the in-game stuff we can see on the field (and therefore second-guess). I'm pretty sure that both V and Farrell knew "the game of baseball" pretty well and their onfield/ingame acumen was probably good enough. (At a minimum, I'll never see enough games of other teams to see how the Sox manager compares in that way).
But V couldn't talk to players like adults, and Farrell seemed to have a really hard time dealing with anyone other than veterans who were satisfied with being communicated to via the lineup card. That just doesn't fly anymore.
 

worm0082

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I just watched it. I forgot about how 99% of the team didn’t show up to Peskys funeral but a lot of them went to Beckett’s bowling tournament hours later. That was inexcusable.
 

Spaceman's co-pilot

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Bobby Valentine is a pompous, arrogant, wiseass, narcissistic little punk who ruined the great Sox careers of Tim Wakefield and Jason Varitek. Their names still are regarded with respect among Sox fans. Bobby V. though is like the memory of an unfortunate event you try never to remember.
 

Spaceman's co-pilot

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I just watched it. I forgot about how 99% of the team didn’t show up to Peskys funeral but a lot of them went to Beckett’s bowling tournament hours later. That was inexcusable.
Face it Worm, the respect for the greats that came before this modern age of Prima Donna's just isn't there. I remember being disgusted with that news about Pesky's funeral too.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Bobby Valentine is a pompous, arrogant, wiseass, narcissistic little punk who ruined the great Sox careers of Tim Wakefield and Jason Varitek. Their names still are regarded with respect among Sox fans. Bobby V. though is like the memory of an unfortunate event you try never to remember.
Huh? Both those guys retired the year before Bobby V arrived.
 

mauf

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I just watched it. I forgot about how 99% of the team didn’t show up to Peskys funeral but a lot of them went to Beckett’s bowling tournament hours later. That was inexcusable.
The team plane got in at 4am; the funeral was at 11am in Swampscott. I don’t particularly care that most players didn’t go, but if Valentine cared, he should’ve made his expectations clear. It’s called leadership. BV publicly shitting on his players for not going was much worse than them deciding not to attend a funeral an hour’s drive away on maybe 4 hours’ sleep. It’s almost as if he was more interested in making his players look bad than in showing up for the Pesky family.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I believe both were in camp in '12 but couldn't make the team because they weren't "Valentine guys". ICBW...
You are incorrect that they couldn't make the team. They never tried. Had nothing to do with Valentine and everything to do with them being 40 and 45 years old.

Both guys were offered minor league contracts and an invitation to camp in 2012, but they both turned it down. Wakefield had a press conference on February 17, 2012 at JetBlue Park to announce his retirement. Tek did the same on March 1.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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You are incorrect that they couldn't make the team. They never tried. Had nothing to do with Valentine and everything to do with them being 40 and 45 years old.

Both guys were offered minor league contracts and an invitation to camp in 2012, but they both turned it down. Wakefield had a press conference on February 17, 2012 at JetBlue Park to announce his retirement. Tek did the same on March 1.
But he BELIEVES it to be true and that is what matters here.
 

TDFenway

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The team plane got in at 4am; the funeral was at 11am in Swampscott. I don’t particularly care that most players didn’t go, but if Valentine cared, he should’ve made his expectations clear. It’s called leadership. BV publicly shitting on his players for not going was much worse than them deciding not to attend a funeral an hour’s drive away on maybe 4 hours’ sleep. It’s almost as if he was more interested in making his players look bad than in showing up for the Pesky family.
Dr. C told me he dropped the ball on this as he never asked the Pesky family to have the funeral a day later so the team could be involved. He was preoccupied with the WEEI/NESN Jimmy Fund Telethon that was taking place when the team returned home.
 

lexrageorge

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Beckett spend most of that spring yelling about "the snitch" in the clubhouse. But Beckett is an ass in his own right.

Also, for whatever reason, there were always rumors that pitchers, even teammates, always hated Youkilis. Apparently they didn't like the way he would get upset at striking out, feeling it was "disrespectful". MLB players are for the most part weird, self-absorbed assholes is the conclusion I would draw from the rumors.
 

cornwalls@6

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Beckett spend most of that spring yelling about "the snitch" in the clubhouse. But Beckett is an ass in his own right.

Also, for whatever reason, there were always rumors that pitchers, even teammates, always hated Youkilis. Apparently they didn't like the way he would get upset at striking out, feeling it was "disrespectful". MLB players are for the most part weird, self-absorbed assholes is the conclusion I would draw from the rumors.
Yeah, it sounds like some of it is code bullshit. But I can also see where Youkilis could grind on teammates after a while. Like playing golf with somebody who throws a shit fit after every shot that isn’t perfect. It’s tiresome and distracting.
 

dynomite

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2012 was also the 19 inning game against Baltimore, when Baltimore brought in Chris Davis to pitch, essentially punting the game, and Valentine countered by bringing in Darnell McDonald to pitch, essentially refusing to accept the gift. The Sox lost. I've never been so disgusted in my life.
Yes I was at that game and was apoplectic, especially since this was a year when Baltimore was good and an AL East rival.

My favorite "Wait, that didn't really happen did it? DID IT?!?" is probably when he researched opposing pitcher Liam Hendriks on his cell phone, thought he was a LHP, and posted a lineup as such and only fixed it when Salty pointed it out to him. Y'know, like the manager of a bad high school team might.

As Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com pointed out, Valentine initially had right-handed hitters Kelly Shoppach and Darnell McDonald in the lineup a few hours before Wednesday game against the Twins. He laters swapped them out for left-handed hitters Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Ryan Sweeney, and here’s why:
“I looked on this thing and there was no history on (Twins pitcher Liam Hendriks),” Valentine said pointing to his cell phone. “It had his name, and ‘against left-handed hitting.’ My fault. That’s why you make these lineups out early enough.”

Hendriks is a right-hander. Apparently Bobby V. saw “against left-handed hitting” and thought he was a left-handed pitcher. Fortunately, Saltalamacchia caught the error in time. The Red Sox catcher drove home two runs in the 6-5 victory, so it’s a good thing he discovered the mistake. Learn how to use a cell phone, Bobby. We wouldn’t want to see things get uglier in Boston than they already are.
Link

I wish I could erase that entire godforsaken season from my memory. Although I do remember jumping for joy at the news of the Punto trade.
 

kfoss99

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I've been to only three games at Fenway. The last one was to bring my dad as a father's day gift in 2012. Valentine managed. Beckett pitched. It was not a fun game. Somehow Beckett lasted 6 innings, which was not my recollection. I'm pretty sure he used the first two innings to warm up, as I only saw him do a few minutes of long toss before the game.

Here's the box score: Toronto Blue Jays at Boston Red Sox Box Score, July 20, 2012 | Baseball-Reference.com
 

Humphrey

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2012 was also the 19 inning game against Baltimore, when Baltimore brought in Chris Davis to pitch, essentially punting the game, and Valentine countered by bringing in Darnell McDonald to pitch, essentially refusing to accept the gift. The Sox lost. I've never been so disgusted in my life.
Wasn't part of that starting pitchers flat out refusing to go in the game (all bullpen guys at that point used)? Not that a smart manager with good player relations shouldn't have been able to figure that out (and Valentine was neither at that point).
 

lexrageorge

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Wasn't part of that starting pitchers flat out refusing to go in the game (all bullpen guys at that point used)? Not that a smart manager with good player relations shouldn't have been able to figure that out (and Valentine was neither at that point).
The day before they started Aaron Cook (egads!), with both Clayton Mortensen (egads!!) and Scott Atchison (yikes!!!) each pitching in with lengthy relief appearances of 3 innings each. Lester had pitched 6 innings on Friday night, and so unclear if he would have been available to pitch an inning or 2 in relief.

In that game, Valentine had already burned through Buchholz, Miller (who was pulled way too quickly), Matt Albers, Vincente Padilla, Aceves, Franklin Morales, Rich Hill (!!), and Atchison. Felix Doubront started Monday night against the Royals, and so it's conceivable he may have already been already on his way KC, but not sure. Daniel Bard should have been available. Mortensen was also technically available, but he was just coming back from an injury that had ended his prior season. Josh Beckett missed a start around that time, but cannot recall what the issue was with him.

There were better options than Darnell McDonald. Of course, it's pathetic the Sox lineup at the time could not produce against Chris Davis.
 

reggiecleveland

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Bobby was thrown to the wolves.

Not his coaches
Beckett/Youk rift
No communication between front office

Doubt anybody could have handled that team but Bobby certainly couldn't
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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It’s kind of wild, at some point it seems like they ultimately just decided to sabotage that season and wait until they could get Farrell. You wonder how things would have gone had they landed Sveum, who they interviewed twice, but ending up going to the Cubs.
 

Van Everyman

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Sveum was Ben’s choice, yes? My memory was that Larry supposedly overruled him and hired Bobby V, causing much consternation amongst the SoSHerati until the Punto Trade that Ben had been neutered by the FO.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I think Sveum took the Cubs job before the Sox were ready to make a hire; I think Valentine was just lurking as a candidate at that point. I know they interviewed Gene Lamont, too…not sure who else was a candidate but seemed like an uninspired search after they realized the Jays wouldn’t give up Farrell.
 

Rovin Romine

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It’s kind of wild, at some point it seems like they ultimately just decided to sabotage that season and wait until they could get Farrell. You wonder how things would have gone had they landed Sveum, who they interviewed twice, but ending up going to the Cubs.
At what point exactly do you believe they decided to sabotage the season?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Yeah, sabotage isn’t the right word as I’m sure they initially were hoping it would work. But they only gave Valentine a two year deal, right, and Farrell had two years remaining with the Jays. Sveum had signed a three year deal with the Cubs. So it seems like Valentine (and the second choice guy, Lamont) were at least seen as a stop gap measure to when Farrell would no longer be under contract.

Thank god for the Punto deal; wonder how much different things go if Farrell walks into a team still populated with those guys .
 

richgedman'sghost

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Yes I was at that game and was apoplectic, especially since this was a year when Baltimore was good and an AL East rival.

My favorite "Wait, that didn't really happen did it? DID IT?!?" is probably when he researched opposing pitcher Liam Hendriks on his cell phone, thought he was a LHP, and posted a lineup as such and only fixed it when Salty pointed it out to him. Y'know, like the manager of a bad high school team might.

Link

I wish I could erase that entire godforsaken season from my memory. Although I do remember jumping for joy at the news of the Punto trade.
Didn't Joe Morgan pull the same mistake back in 1998 when he confused the hardness of Shawn Hillgas a White Sox pitcher? The only differences are that Morgan is not a jerk who admitted his mistake plus the Red Sox won that game if I'm not mistaken. Please correct me if my recollection is wrong.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Didn't Joe Morgan pull the same mistake back in 1998 when he confused the hardness of Shawn Hillgas a White Sox pitcher? The only differences are that Morgan is not a jerk who admitted his mistake plus the Red Sox won that game if I'm not mistaken. Please correct me if my recollection is wrong.
He did. I can’t remember the pinch hitter he sent up, but I’m pretty sure it worked out for Morgan.

If SoSH had been around in the late 80s, Joe Morgan would have driven a lot of people here crazy.
 

JayMags71

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From that link:
The pitchers thought Youkilis was the person who leaked “chicken and beer” to the press, and thus, refused to sit on the same side of the clubhouse as him. Valentine was apparently helpless.
Vomit. What absolute whiny chickenshit nonsense. You’re paid to manage people. Act like a functioning adult, and hold a meeting between them informing all parties to squash it. Bring Cherington or Lucchino to sit in if you have to.

He’s such a fucking piss baby.
 

reggiecleveland

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From that link:

Vomit. What absolute whiny chickenshit nonsense. You’re paid to manage people. Act like a functioning adult, and hold a meeting between them informing all parties to squash it. Bring Cherington or Lucchino to sit in if you have to.

He’s such a fucking piss baby.
Pretty clear Beckett refused to meet or talk about it with Bobby. Then when it came out Theo was the source Cherington didn't allow Bobby to tell that to anyone. Bobby's biggest mistake was going to the press with stuff. They had to get rid of Beckett. He is the type of personaluty where if he isn't worth having on the team unless he is pitching great. Same as Schilling.
 
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