Boston’s taxing pursuit of Juan Soto is over. (Mets)

curly2

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 8, 2003
5,204
Even if Soto leaves--which is certainly not a given--I think it was still a good move for the Yankees. The goal is to win a World Series, and Soto gave them a great shot at it. A five-game series can seem kind of lopsided, but the Yankees easily could have won Games 1 and 5 and gone back to L.A. with a 3-2 lead. Heck, maybe they win Game 2 or 3 if they had gotten anything out of Judge in those games.

Let’s be real. The Yankees will sign a hatable “C-List” guy like Kevin Kiermaier. He’ll get on the Bronx Vitamin regimen, his head will swell to the size of a jackfruit, and he’ll OPS .850 while hitting about 25-30 home runs.
The Bronx vitamin regimen didn't do anything for Verdugo, with his .356 slugging percentage. (When I looked it up just now I was stunned, I knew it was low but didn't think it was THAT low).
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
75,026
The Bronx vitamin regimen didn't do anything for Verdugo, with his .356 slugging percentage. (When I looked it up just now I was stunned, I knew it was low but didn't think it was THAT low).
.336 after April, so bad.
 

Hank Scorpio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 1, 2013
8,181
Salem, NH
The Bronx vitamin regimen didn't do anything for Verdugo, with his .356 slugging percentage. (When I looked it up just now I was stunned, I knew it was low but didn't think it was THAT low).
We give all of our outgoing outfielders mercury poisoning on their way out the door, if we suspect or know they are going to the Yankees. Ellsbury. Verdugo.

It’s because we were upset when Damon left.
 

pokey_reese

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 25, 2008
16,438
Boston, MA
Time running out to get this done before the winter meetings, which I thought the early rumors had suggested was the goal for Soto/Boras. Maybe I am misremembering?
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,771
Isle of Plum
Time running out to get this done before the winter meetings, which I thought the early rumors had suggested was the goal for Soto/Boras. Maybe I am misremembering?
Yeah, don't recall now if it was rumor or wishcasting (McAdam saying it would be great for the industry if...) but Soto news soto voce.
 
Last edited:

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,776
CT
Time running out to get this done before the winter meetings, which I thought the early rumors had suggested was the goal for Soto/Boras. Maybe I am misremembering?
I think most of the big spenders are either trying to acquire Soto or waiting to see what happens with Soto before moving on to the other free agents.

As such, he’s a massive domino to fall for the rest of the market. It will take as long as it takes, but Boras probably has some interest in getting it wrapped up so he can use the winter meetings to discuss some of his other clients.

This isn’t like the last few years where teams were slow playing guys. Heck, even Bryce Harper didn’t sign until March 1st a few years ago.

Soto is a big fish with a pretty clean bill of health and a HOF trajectory. Every team that wants him is already all in.
 

Hee Sox Choi

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 27, 2006
6,237
Winter Meetings are in Dallas, Dec 9-12, so there’s still 8 days to go. If the bidding is already in the 600s then there aren’t many more bids to go. The hammer should fall this week.
 

Murderer's Crow

Dragon Wangler 216
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
25,422
Garden City
Any rumors or reports of the dollar amounts are almost certain to be bullshit IMO. Especially in the era of deferrals. If I see something with numbers, I'm ignoring it.
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
96,362
Oregon
Winter Meetings are in Dallas, Dec 9-12, so there’s still 8 days to go. If the bidding is already in the 600s then there aren’t many more bids to go. The hammer should fall this week.
Plenty of time for more random Twitter guys to tell us what they know
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
22,968
Maine
Time running out to get this done before the winter meetings, which I thought the early rumors had suggested was the goal for Soto/Boras. Maybe I am misremembering?
If it's Soto's goal to have it done before the winter meetings, he's entirely in control of the timeline. There's nothing any team can do to speed things along, unless they think they can throw down an offer that no one else will come close to matching, which almost definitionally makes it an overpay and not really in their best interest. I imagine teams most likely want to be the highest bidder but don't necessarily want to pay a dollar more than they have to to be that bidder.
 

TapeAndPosts

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2006
697
Seems to me if Soto wants this done by the winter meetings he can do it pretty easily. There's a whole week left and if we believe the reporting he has already had offers and improved offers. Finishing the bidding in the next couple days doesn't seem hard.
 

CKDexterHaven

New Member
Dec 19, 2023
53
So, even after 45 years of being a Sox fan, I really don’t delve deeply into the business side of things. At this point, though, and owing to the consequence of this particular deal, I wonder if yous guys could educate me a bit. Here is a set of dumb/naive questions re: FA negotiations:

1 I assume teams are invited to submit preliminary offers. To set the floor and to weed out the non-serious. But, then what?
2 Can an agent say to the contenders, “We want to sign soon, so submit your best offer,” and have it be ‘blind’—not telling each team what the other has submitted, so the agent isn’t revealing how close/far apart they are? So maybe the most desperate/well-funded team puts in a ‘blow them out of the water overpay’ bid (as we may have done with Yoshida?)….
3 Can a team (let’s call them the M-team) say “Our offer is n+50M?” Without a specific number? Assuming the n is a verifiable number? Is that ‘ethical?’
4 Can an agent tell a team the player needs x$ more from that team to compensate for a preference of playing elsewhere?
5 If teams do get into negotiations with the highest priced players in order to ‘drive up the price’ for a rival, doesn’t that also bite those teams because they’re setting higher standards they’ll have to meet later with players they actually want/need to be able to afford?

Any other tips, tricks, or strategies players/agents or teams use in these negotiations wouod be appreciated.

[Be kind, please]
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
16,968
I would say we have basically seen all of those.
The problem with a team saying “go get your best offer and we will beat it” is what if two teams say that? Basically you are still in a bidding war. We saw Belichick invite his free agents to shop around and come back (eg Hightower). The n+$50m is a new one, but I’m not sure I believe it or how exactly that would work. If the Red Sox offer $600m and the Mets counter with $650m, what happens when the Red Sox up their bid to $625m? Does that just auto-adjust the Mets bid to $675m?

We have seen teams say this is our great offer and you can take it right now or the offer is off the table. (Cashman has done that, I believe).
 

Hank Scorpio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 1, 2013
8,181
Salem, NH
3 Can a team (let’s call them the M-team) say “Our offer is n+50M?” Without a specific number? Assuming the n is a verifiable number? Is that ‘ethical?’
I don't see why a team couldn't do that, but at the same time, I would love it if such an offer was binding.

Breslow: "We offer 14 years, $700M."
Boras: "Strong offer. But the Mets said they'll beat anything you offer by $50M."
Breslow: "Would Soto take $50M less to play here?"
Boras: "No."
Breslow: "In that case, we offer 5 years, $50 billion."
*Mets cease to exist*
 

CKDexterHaven

New Member
Dec 19, 2023
53
I don't see why a team couldn't do that, but at the same time, I would love it if such an offer was binding.

Breslow: "We offer 14 years, $700M."
Boras: "Strong offer. But the Mets said they'll beat anything you offer by $50M."
Breslow: "Would Soto take $50M less to play here?"
Boras: "No."
Breslow: "In that case, we offer 5 years, $50 billion."
*Mets cease to exist*
“Beauty, eh!”
 

Otis Foster

rex ryan's podiatrist
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
1,804
This just popped up over at Prospects. The poster is unknown to me, and there’s no further detail. Wonder if this is Mikey in disguse?

“ Juan Soto instructed Scott Boras to find a deal with the Red Sox last week (Wed/Thu). Unless the Red Sox were bluffing about their interest, or the details don't work out, then there will be an official announcement within a week or two. There's a chance that the Red Sox are too nitpicky with contract structure and details (charities, deferrals, opt-outs), and the Mets just wash away the difference in cash, but Juan Soto did decide to sign with the Red Sox as his first choice and I'll leave for another 5+ years if Soto is a Met by Christmas.

We've seen with the Correa stuff that deals can fall through. But, the value proposition over the next fifteen years is too good to pass up considering the CBA, upcoming FAs, and draft classes. Insurance covers disaster scenarios, so the only real concern is if Soto takes a Rendon/Pujols route post 30/31. But, that's five years from now and a World Series win would cover the costs.‘
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
56,053
Yeah, no idea about the post, but if the deal didn't happen because of charities, then Fenway should be burned to ground.
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
16,968
Well we saw the A-Rod deal fall apart over not all that much. (Not that I’m sorry it did)
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
96,362
Oregon
This just popped up over at Prospects. The poster is unknown to me, and there’s no further detail. Wonder if this is Mikey in disguse?

“ Juan Soto instructed Scott Boras to find a deal with the Red Sox last week (Wed/Thu). Unless the Red Sox were bluffing about their interest, or the details don't work out, then there will be an official announcement within a week or two. There's a chance that the Red Sox are too nitpicky with contract structure and details (charities, deferrals, opt-outs), and the Mets just wash away the difference in cash, but Juan Soto did decide to sign with the Red Sox as his first choice and I'll leave for another 5+ years if Soto is a Met by Christmas.

We've seen with the Correa stuff that deals can fall through. But, the value proposition over the next fifteen years is too good to pass up considering the CBA, upcoming FAs, and draft classes. Insurance covers disaster scenarios, so the only real concern is if Soto takes a Rendon/Pujols route post 30/31. But, that's five years from now and a World Series win would cover the costs.‘
Who was the poster?
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
49,809
The lack of news leads me to believe we’ve now reached the serious part of the process. I don’t for one second believe it’s a 2 team race between the Mets and Sox but wouldn’t be surprised if Soto himself has started to eliminate teams such as the Jays.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
54,660
My neighbor's dog posts on Prospects (and oddly enough at Pawspects too). He tells me the poster in question is a total hack and can't be trusted. No new Soto news from Waffles though - he has been dealing with a tryptophan hangover all weekend.
 
Oct 12, 2023
1,534
This just popped up over at Prospects. The poster is unknown to me, and there’s no further detail. Wonder if this is Mikey in disguse?

“ Juan Soto instructed Scott Boras to find a deal with the Red Sox last week (Wed/Thu). Unless the Red Sox were bluffing about their interest, or the details don't work out, then there will be an official announcement within a week or two. There's a chance that the Red Sox are too nitpicky with contract structure and details (charities, deferrals, opt-outs), and the Mets just wash away the difference in cash, but Juan Soto did decide to sign with the Red Sox as his first choice and I'll leave for another 5+ years if Soto is a Met by Christmas.

We've seen with the Correa stuff that deals can fall through. But, the value proposition over the next fifteen years is too good to pass up considering the CBA, upcoming FAs, and draft classes. Insurance covers disaster scenarios, so the only real concern is if Soto takes a Rendon/Pujols route post 30/31. But, that's five years from now and a World Series win would cover the costs.‘
Reeks of the classic internet “sure thing but here’s a few small ways it might not happen so don’t blame me if I’m wrong” type post.

Throw in one or two obscure possible hang ups which makes it somehow more plausible to people.

been happening for almost 30 years on the ol’ WWW
 

Beomoose

is insoxicated
SoSH Member
May 28, 2006
22,079
Exiled
I
on that note:

If the money is close and someone chooses to live in Boston instead of Manhattan they are kind of a fucked up person who I do not want my team paying $700M to anyway.
I thought the tax debate decided it was between living in Boston and living in Connecticut.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,968
This just popped up over at Prospects. The poster is unknown to me, and there’s no further detail. Wonder if this is Mikey in disguse?

“ Juan Soto instructed Scott Boras to find a deal with the Red Sox last week (Wed/Thu). Unless the Red Sox were bluffing about their interest, or the details don't work out, then there will be an official announcement within a week or two. There's a chance that the Red Sox are too nitpicky with contract structure and details (charities, deferrals, opt-outs), and the Mets just wash away the difference in cash, but Juan Soto did decide to sign with the Red Sox as his first choice and I'll leave for another 5+ years if Soto is a Met by Christmas.

We've seen with the Correa stuff that deals can fall through. But, the value proposition over the next fifteen years is too good to pass up considering the CBA, upcoming FAs, and draft classes. Insurance covers disaster scenarios, so the only real concern is if Soto takes a Rendon/Pujols route post 30/31. But, that's five years from now and a World Series win would cover the costs.‘
One of these things is not like the others.
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
16,968
The A-Rod deal was voided by the MLBPA, though, not the player himself. A-Rod did everything he could to come to Boston.
Right. But the reason that the MLBPA voided the deal was that the Red Sox were looking to change his contract. The Yankees, on the other hand, were not. Same Sox owner as now.
Edit: I'm only suggesting that the devil could be in the details with any big contract.
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
Either the Sox meet his price or they don't. I can't believe they would be stupid enough to meet it only to blow the negotiation by getting cute with the details. The fact that people have done so (20 years ago) probably makes it more likely that they steer clear of old mistakes, theirs or others'. Theo has been around the block enough times.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
13,107
Soto's dog's sister is checking out kennels for when the Sox are on the road
Soto's dog's brother's nephew's cousin's former owner says...Typing that out took so much time I've already forgotten the joke.
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
96,362
Oregon

rajendra82

elimination day disfunction
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
5,040
Atlanta, GA
Amusingly Soto and Kiermaier have almost the exact same career bWAR, 36.5 to 36.4.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_career.shtml
Interesting list. Here are top 10 active hitters by bWAR/yr. Get it done.

Rank Player yrs age bWAR bWAR/yr PA Bats/ Throws
105 Mookie Betts
11​
31​
69.6 6.3 6273 R
50 Mike Trout
14​
32​
86.2 6.2 6647 R
287 Aaron Judge
9​
32​
52.2 5.8 4323 R
658 Juan Soto
7​
25​
36.4 5.2 4088 L
328 Francisco Lindor
10​
30​
49.6 5.0 6116 B
594 Matt Chapman
8​
31​
38.4 4.8 4235 R
228 Nolan Arenado
12​
33​
56.7 4.7 7078 R
160 Paul Goldschmidt
14​
36​
62.8 4.5 8292 R
218 Manny Machado
13​
31​
57.8 4.4 7517 R
439 Carlos Correa
10​
29​
44.4 4.4 4760 R
 
Last edited: