Boston’s taxing pursuit of Juan Soto is over. (Mets)

E5 Yaz

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According to the discussion over at SoxProspects, Pepen followed up by saying the Mets, because off their financial clout, should still be considered the favorites ... but that if the Red Sox step up, they have the emotional edge and that could be enough to bring Soto to Boston.
 

BaseballJones

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The A-Rod deal was voided by the MLBPA, though, not the player himself. A-Rod did everything he could to come to Boston.
Bingo. The Boston hate for Alex Rodriguez is really misplaced. Of course he was a Yankee, and that automatically makes him the enemy. But the guy was willing to take a massive pay cut to come to Boston via that trade. He fought to make that trade happen so he could be on the Sox. The MLBPA, not wanting any player to take such a pay cut, voided the trade. The trade fell through, and then he got traded to the Yankees.

How can we hate a guy who desperately wanted to come to Boston so badly that he was willing to lose $40 million (a princely sum in those days). When the trade didn't go through, Rodriguez "threw up" that night after getting hammered because he was so upset. (or so he told Buster Olney)
 

Ed Hillel

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Hank Scorpio

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Bingo. The Boston hate for Alex Rodriguez is really misplaced. Of course he was a Yankee, and that automatically makes him the enemy. But the guy was willing to take a massive pay cut to come to Boston via that trade. He fought to make that trade happen so he could be on the Sox. The MLBPA, not wanting any player to take such a pay cut, voided the trade. The trade fell through, and then he got traded to the Yankees.

How can we hate a guy who desperately wanted to come to Boston so badly that he was willing to lose $40 million (a princely sum in those days). When the trade didn't go through, Rodriguez "threw up" that night after getting hammered because he was so upset. (or so he told Buster Olney)
92562
 

RG33

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Bingo. The Boston hate for Alex Rodriguez is really misplaced. Of course he was a Yankee, and that automatically makes him the enemy. But the guy was willing to take a massive pay cut to come to Boston via that trade. He fought to make that trade happen so he could be on the Sox. The MLBPA, not wanting any player to take such a pay cut, voided the trade. The trade fell through, and then he got traded to the Yankees.

How can we hate a guy who desperately wanted to come to Boston so badly that he was willing to lose $40 million (a princely sum in those days). When the trade didn't go through, Rodriguez "threw up" that night after getting hammered because he was so upset. (or so he told Buster Olney)
Defending A-Fraud feels a lot like hating on Bellhorn to me. Just icky, regardless of any truth.
 

BigSoxFan

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Bingo. The Boston hate for Alex Rodriguez is really misplaced. Of course he was a Yankee, and that automatically makes him the enemy. But the guy was willing to take a massive pay cut to come to Boston via that trade. He fought to make that trade happen so he could be on the Sox. The MLBPA, not wanting any player to take such a pay cut, voided the trade. The trade fell through, and then he got traded to the Yankees.

How can we hate a guy who desperately wanted to come to Boston so badly that he was willing to lose $40 million (a princely sum in those days). When the trade didn't go through, Rodriguez "threw up" that night after getting hammered because he was so upset. (or so he told Buster Olney)
Can we get a wellness check on BaseballJones?
 

snowmanny

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Well, I am the one who mentioned ARod, FBOFW. And I didn't say I hated him. I did say that I am glad the trade didn't go through, and that's mostly because Manny and Lester were instrumental in three World Series wins. But it is true that I hate ARod, and am also glad his inevitable stench didn't cling to the Red Sox.
 

jercra

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FWIW, I am close friends with someone who works closely with Cohen. He is 100% convinced that he will not be outbid for Soto and that if it's just money, he's going to the Mets. It's not really news because everyone assumes this is true, but hearing it from someone who works with him (and John Henry) frequently seems worth sharing. Of course, he's not s tax attorney, so he doesn't know all of the implications.
 

BigSoxFan

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FWIW, I am close friends with someone who works closely with Cohen. He is 100% convinced that he will not be outbid for Soto and that if it's just money, he's going to the Mets. It's not really news because everyone assumes this is true, but hearing it from someone who works with him (and John Henry) frequently seems worth sharing. Of course, he's not s tax attorney, so he doesn't know all of the implications.
Your friend is 100% convinced that Cohen won’t be outbid for Soto or Cohen himself is convinced that he won’t be outbid?
 

jercra

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Your friend is 100% convinced that Cohen won’t be outbid for Soto or Cohen himself is convinced that he won’t be outbid?
Sorry, Cohen has basically said he won't be outbid. I'm sure lots of billionaires say shit like that, but that's the story.
 

rajendra82

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FWIW, I am close friends with someone who works closely with Cohen. He is 100% convinced that he will not be outbid for Soto and that if it's just money, he's going to the Mets. It's not really news because everyone assumes this is true, but hearing it from someone who works with him (and John Henry) frequently seems worth sharing. Of course, he's not s tax attorney, so he doesn't know all of the implications.
Does he have a dog?
 

CKDexterHaven

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Bingo. The Boston hate for Alex Rodriguez is really misplaced. Of course he was a Yankee, and that automatically makes him the enemy. But the guy was willing to take a massive pay cut to come to Boston via that trade. He fought to make that trade happen so he could be on the Sox. The MLBPA, not wanting any player to take such a pay cut, voided the trade. The trade fell through, and then he got traded to the Yankees.

How can we hate a guy who desperately wanted to come to Boston so badly that he was willing to lose $40 million (a princely sum in those days). When the trade didn't go through, Rodriguez "threw up" that night after getting hammered because he was so upset. (or so he told Buster Olney)
I can “hate” Arod for being a narcissistic douche who happened to play for the Yankees (ir-)regardless of him wanting to play for the RedSox. Just like I can “hate” Curt Schilling, despite his ‘heroics‘ on behalf of the Red Sox. My hate is capable of maintaining multiple perspectives.
 

sodenj5

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Your friend is 100% convinced that Cohen won’t be outbid for Soto or Cohen himself is convinced that he won’t be outbid?
This has been the thought process all along. If Cohen won’t be outbid, then Soto will have to accept taking 20 or 30 million less to play in Boston.

I think at a certain point the numbers will get so high that the extra kicker from Cohen start to become less relevant and the other “intangibles” start to come more into focus.

If Soto wants the most money, he’ll be a Met. Plain and simple.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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Exactly. If it’s straight money, nobody will outbid the Mets. The real question is, is the Sox offer really in that $600+ range, or are they a $100+ short?
 

rodderick

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There's levels to the whole "outbidding" debate. If the difference is marginal, other factors are heightened. In sports you can lose a bidding war with the best bid on paper.
 

OCD SS

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I said it awhile ago, but it makes sense to repost: when a player is signing a super large contract, it always endears them to the fan base if there was a larger offer that they turned down because they really wanted to play with (insert name of the new team they’re signing with that they have a personal connection with here). I can see Soto both getting the largest contract in MLB history and turning down a larger offer to play somewhere else.
 

InsideTheParker

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on that note:

If the money is close and someone chooses to live in Boston instead of Manhattan they are kind of a fucked up person who I do not want my team paying $700M to anyway.
I can't tell if this is a joke. I've lived in both places and Boston's much, much nicer. Now, I wasn't a young man from the Dominican, but a young woman from Louisiana, so that may make a big difference. How is the Dominican scene in Boston? Food, entertainment, etc.
 

joe dokes

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I said it awhile ago, but it makes sense to repost: when a player is signing a super large contract, it always endears them to the fan base if there was a larger offer that they turned down because they really wanted to play with (insert name of the new team they’re signing with that they have a personal connection with here). I can see Soto both getting the largest contract in MLB history and turning down a larger offer to play somewhere else.
We use "highest bidder," as a proxy for "most money." Which is certainly the most likely defintition. But I suppose there's an (admittedly looser) definition where "largest contract ever" becomes something of an equivalent (though surely not literally) of "most money offered" in the bidding universe. The "largest ever" is still the "largest ever," regardless of the options available that could have made it even higher. As others have said, if it's simply about the "largest bid now," I think it unlikely the Mets come in 2nd. But "largest ever" still allows the bragging that seems to be an important component of these things (at least for agents and the PA, the latter of which might not get quite as bent if it's "less than," but still the "largest ever.")
 

YTF

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I said it awhile ago, but it makes sense to repost: when a player is signing a super large contract, it always endears them to the fan base if there was a larger offer that they turned down because they really wanted to play with (insert name of the new team they’re signing with that they have a personal connection with here). I can see Soto both getting the largest contract in MLB history and turning down a larger offer to play somewhere else.
I doubt any of that matters. Him signing with Boston under any circumstances will leave him plenty endeared.
 

Ed Hillel

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I can't tell if this is a joke. I've lived in both places and Boston's much, much nicer. Now, I wasn't a young man from the Dominican, but a young woman from Louisiana, so that may make a big difference. How is the Dominican scene in Boston? Food, entertainment, etc.
Boston has the Bell in Hand, the single greatest bar on Earth. It transcends race, religion, creed, fandom, micro regional conflict, macro regional conflict, you name it. It’s a scene unto itself, and as diverse and energetic as Manhattan or Queens are, nothing can compare.
 

snowmanny

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Well, Manny wasn’t busted here. Which helps some. And the whole Arod saga was worse, what with the emotional public lies and all that.

Also, I agree with you on the Boston vs Manhattan thing. Many of us Bostonians could make the same or more in NYC but have no desire to live there. And I’m sure there are many in the exact opposite position. Not buying what luckiestman was selling there.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Bingo. The Boston hate for Alex Rodriguez is really misplaced. Of course he was a Yankee, and that automatically makes him the enemy. But the guy was willing to take a massive pay cut to come to Boston via that trade. He fought to make that trade happen so he could be on the Sox. The MLBPA, not wanting any player to take such a pay cut, voided the trade. The trade fell through, and then he got traded to the Yankees.

How can we hate a guy who desperately wanted to come to Boston so badly that he was willing to lose $40 million (a princely sum in those days). When the trade didn't go through, Rodriguez "threw up" that night after getting hammered because he was so upset. (or so he told Buster Olney)
I summon a "HUH?!" when looking at this from the 2004 regular season onward, but I totally agree with you that at the time of his courting during the previous offseason my opinion of ARod was higher than it had been anytime prior. Especially based on the fact that Nomar had seemingly been hardened since his early success and ARod by comparison seemed to "give a shit"(c) and play the game with more passion than Nomar had in the time since his wrist injury and related decline. By comparison it was quite obvious that ARod would outperform Nomar considerably as well as welcome the high profile atmosphere going forward. And I think an ARod flanked by the "idiots" and Manny/Papi going forward would be perceived a lot different than him playing with the relatively straight-laced Yankees.

We use "highest bidder," as a proxy for "most money." Which is certainly the most likely defintition. But I suppose there's an (admittedly looser) definition where "largest contract ever" becomes something of an equivalent (though surely not literally) of "most money offered" in the bidding universe. The "largest ever" is still the "largest ever," regardless of the options available that could have made it even higher. As others have said, if it's simply about the "largest bid now," I think it unlikely the Mets come in 2nd. But "largest ever" still allows the bragging that seems to be an important component of these things (at least for agents and the PA, the latter of which might not get quite as bent if it's "less than," but still the "largest ever.")
In the end, any bid that falls in the ballpark of the highest offer will be considered and if Soto has a preference that is not the highest his team can easily fall back on "Well the tax in NYC/CA/fill in location is higher and average homes cost $X and therefore the offer by (fill in team) is commensurate with all the final offers received." The PA will be keeping track of the situation through reporters (ahem, Heyman, ahem) to make sure the relative difference between the selected bid and any higher bid is basically a rounding error. Soto has the final say, but like the ARod/Sox situation he would be pressured quite a bit and may eventually relent in the event of a big discrepancy.

I can totally see a narrative where Pepén's tweet above in that Soto really wants to select the Red Sox, but for him personally as well as his agent and the PA are all examining if the Sox contract can get in the neighborhood of the highest offer (likely the Mets). The key point about the reporting is that he was talking to "baseball" people and these are likely folks who have a relationship with Soto directly or indirectly, BUT these sources probably don't include agents or front office folks who make up a large portion of the negotiations.
 
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I can't tell if this is a joke. I've lived in both places and Boston's much, much nicer. Now, I wasn't a young man from the Dominican, but a young woman from Louisiana, so that may make a big difference. How is the Dominican scene in Boston? Food, entertainment, etc.
Obviously NYC has a much bigger Dominican community, but I actually just saw this on OTM about Boston's Dominican community:

https://www.overthemonster.com/2024/11/25/24295738/pedro-martinez-boston-red-sox-hall-of-fame-dominican-republic

They even found Pedro's barber, who's still working in Jamaica Plain. Maybe we can get him in on the recruiting efforts?
 

sodenj5

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I know most of us are biased, but Boston as a city and a place to live is an order of magnitude better than New York. New York just feels cold. Like steel and glass and asphalt.

Boston has so much more character and history.
 

nvalvo

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I summon a "HUH?!" when looking at this from the 2004 regular season onward, but I totally agree with you that at the time of his courting during the previous offseason my opinion of ARod was higher than it had been anytime prior. Especially based on the fact that Nomar had seemingly been hardened since his early success and ARod by comparison seemed to "give a shit"(c) and play the game with more passion than Nomar had in the time since his wrist injury and related decline. By comparison it was quite obvious that ARod would outperform Nomar considerably as well as welcome the high profile atmosphere going forward. And I think an ARod flanked by the "idiots" and Manny/Papi going forward would be perceived a lot different than him playing with the relatively straight-laced Yankees.
A-Rod wasn't going to be "flanked by Manny," if I remember the terms of the trade correctly.

Manny Ramirez and a very young Jon Lester would have been off to Texas for Rodriguez and Nomar Garciaparra and another pitcher (whose identity I can neither recall nor retrieve from Google) would have gone to the White Sox for Magglio Ordoñez and Brandon McCarthy.
 

Hank Scorpio

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Why would anyone in their right mind want to be surrounded by New Yorkers every day?
Went to NYC about a year ago, and it’s just a sea of mindless NPCs walking shoulder to shoulder, and butt to gut. People coming in the opposite direction don’t veer off or sidestep for anyone, and will just throw a shoulder into an elderly or disabled person who happens to be in their way, while trying to blast through the crowd at full speed.

As all this happens, a heavy cloud of skunk weed stench lingers and mingles with the rotten effluvia of an open sewer.

But hey, Frank Sinatra thought it was a swell place several decades ago.
 

Jimbodandy

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I know most of us are biased, but Boston as a city and a place to live is an order of magnitude better than New York. New York just feels cold. Like steel and glass and asphalt.

Boston has so much more character and history.
While I share this opinion, we're not multimillionaire people of color in our 20s.

edit: well, at least I'm not.
 

E5 Yaz

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I think it was an MM name. Like Mike Muroth or Matt Murton.
A-Rod was willing to restructure his contract and, under the reworked deal, he would have been able to opt out of his contract in 2005 and every year after, instead of just in 2007, as originally stipulated in his agreement. The full scope of the trades that had been hammered out had the 27-year-old Rodriguez going from Texas to Boston in exchange for 31-year-old Manny Ramirez, pitching prospect Jon Lester—then just two seasons into his professional career and a month shy of his 20th birthday—and cash. Nomar Garciaparra, then 29, would have gone to the White Sox along with reliever Scott Williamson, 27, in exchange for going-on-30-year-old outfielder Magglio Ordonez and 20-year-old pitching prospect Brandon McCarthy.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2016/08/09/alex-rodriguez-trade-red-sox-yankees-alternate-history
 

PhabPhour20

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Why would anyone in their right mind want to be surrounded by New Yorkers every day?
As someone who has lived for over 10 years in both places, I can tell you that there is very little difference in reality between New Yorkers and Bostonians. The biggest difference is that NYers will generally leave you alone. For an insanely wealthy young person, NY certainly has more to offer in terms of housing, entertainment, restaurants, dating prospects, etc. You can be anonymous there much more easily than you can in Boston. If I were making the decision between the two places, as someone who greatly values anonymity, I would choose NY. If you want to be a folk hero, recognized and feted everywhere, then you choose Boston, all else being held equal.

In my experience, Bostonians are harder nuts to crack than NYers. But once you crack that nut, they offer much deeper and authentic friendships and relationships. NYers are more open to new things and people, but also much more superficial in a lot of ways (including, as we all know, their sports fandom). Having lived in NYC on 9/11 and Boston during the Marathon bombing, both communities are capable of fostering a sense of love and belonging. And in both places, that sense wore off in a few weeks or months when the reality of an everyday existence requiring intense competition returned.

Entitled obnoxious Yankee fans are closely rivaled (but not outnumbered) by obnoxious entitled Pats fans. The two cities love to draw the contrasts between themselves, but they are much more alike than they care admit. I live in CT now and still love (and hate) both cities in different ways.
 

nvalvo

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I think it was an MM name. Like Mike Muroth or Matt Murton.
I have a feature proposal for B-R that I should probably send them instead of typing here, which would be to make pages for trades, linked to the pages of all the players involved. Then you could have a little thing in the transaction section off each player's page that would show the trades. Of course, this is a non-trade, so it probably wouldn't be included.

Thank you, E5! I actually considered and rejected him as too good a player to have been the guy, but in 2003 he had been pedestrian.
 

RedOctober3829

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Andy Martino of SNY--nobody knows anything in terms of what Soto is thinking other than the bidding will pick up this week and be resolved by or at the Winter Meetings.

"None of us knows anything about where Juan Soto will sign. If you, as a fan of the Mets, Yankees, Red Sox or Blue Jays are frustrated by this, take comfort in the fact that the teams involved are similarly in the dark. "I don’t think anyone knows where Juan wants to play except for Juan and [agent Scott] Boras, and maybe Juan’s family,” says one well-placed league source. Even Yankees people, who like Soto personally and felt connected with him over the course of the year, claim no insight into the depths of his head and heart.
At the outset of the offseason, SNY reported that the incumbent Yanks had a slight advantage, if the offers were close. That reporting was an accurate reflection of what the few people who truly know Soto heard from him, but we don’t claim that it’s anything more than that. We can also see advantages for the Mets, whose strong leadership team is beginning what will likely be a long run of stability and growth. What we don’t know — what virtually no one can honestly claim to know — is how Soto is weighing these factors.

Last week did little to clarify the situation. The Soto sweepstakes appeared to have slowed for at least a day or two over the extended Thanksgiving weekend. As of Monday morning, there were no known follow-up visits scheduled with teams.
Why the lack of action? For one, Boras does not need publicity to land for Soto the largest contract in the history of the sport. With the Blue Jays, Mets, Red Sox, and Yankees widely perceived to be financially aggressive, it’s hard to see a strategic purpose in conducting this business in public. It’s no secret that the Yanks and Mets are “all in” on Soto, as one league source reiterates, and that there is a widespread belief among bidders that Toronto will come in with the highest offer.

There is also widespread skepticism that Soto would go to the Blue Jays — but a source pushed back on that, saying that if a team is involved in the final bidding, Soto is willing to play there. That tracks with the above point that Team Soto has no need to inflate the perception of his market by adding teams that aren’t legitimately in it.
https://sny.tv/articles/underwhelming-accurate-mets-yankees-juan-soto-update
 

TapeAndPosts

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Anonymous source: the Blue Jays are expected to make the highest offer and Soto would totally play for the Blue Jays and there’s no need to inflate the market by trumpeting a team that’s not in it

Me: they are totally trumpeting the Blue Jays to inflate the market
 

InsideTheParker

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I know most of us are biased, but Boston as a city and a place to live is an order of magnitude better than New York. New York just feels cold. Like steel and glass and asphalt.

Boston has so much more character and history.
I don't know if this would impress Soto, but there's a sweet poem by George Starbuck, who both studied and taught at B.U. (I was one of his students).

The Unhurried Traveler in Boston

Out West, how unambiguous:
Avenues march in rigorous
Gridirons like an overplus
Of plusses commandeering us
Into some homogeneous
Equation.
Here, how out-of-hand:
Alleys John Winthrop's cattle planned
Meander like an ampersand,
Their only gesture of command
A quaint, unmonitory "and."

How hard, in fact, to get well lost in
Omaha, Sacramento, Austin.

How simply effortless in Boston.