Brogdon to Boston for Theis/Nesmith/2023 1st

Eddie Jurak

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Smart can go back to doing what he does best: coming off the bench and scaring the bejeesus out of second units. We can start a first unit that's nothing but excellent shooters. I've been fine with watching Smart be the last man open after a good possession of ball movement, but it'll be much better when you've got Brogdon, Brown, Tatum and Horford out there at the same time. They have all logged multiple seasons around 40% on 3's, and they'll be looking at more open shots than ever.
That's both absurd - are you bored with being the best defensive team in the league - and not happening. Brogdon has size and savvy, but he's not the athlete Smart is and he's not durable.
 

ehaz

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https://uproxx.com/dimemag/malcolm-brogdon-fit-celtics-trade/

"Throughout his career, he’s canned 41.7 percent of his 779 catch-and-shoot triples"

Didn't he realize he was that good catch-and-shoot on such a large sample.
Yep the primary reason Brogdon went from a 41 3P% in Milwaukee to a 35 3P% in Indiana was that his proportion of catch and shoots went from like 80-90% in MIL to 60% in IND.

Yet another reason to play him and Smart together.
 

lovegtm

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Yep the primary reason Brogdon went from a 41 3P% in Milwaukee to a 35 3P% in Indiana was that his proportion of catch and shoots went from like 80-90% in MIL to 60% in IND.

Yet another reason to play him and Smart together.
If everyone's healthy, the closing lineup is almost certainly Smart/Brogdon/Jaylen/Tatum + TL or Horford depending on health and matchup.

That's a scary lineup, particularly if Tatum makes further improvements, which he always does.
 

Fishy1

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That's both absurd - are you bored with being the best defensive team in the league - and not happening. Brogdon has size and savvy, but he's not the athlete Smart is and he's not durable.
I'm not sure Brogdon will start, but I'm also not sure why you think it would be absurd. Smart will still play 28-30 minutes a game. Robert Williams will still start. Horford and Tatum and Smart will still start. They'll still be incredible defensively. I think they might even better. When Smart isn't exerting excessive energy on offense, he's an even better defender. We'll get that result to am extent no matter who starts, I hope.

Starting Brogdon will open up the offense for Tatum and Brown, and he's a credible defender who will have plenty of backup.

I don't think it'll matter much who starts, I'm mostly just excited to have a real point guard with scoring talent who isn't 5'11 or a total narcissist.
 

ehaz

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Smart and Brogdon work perfectly starting together.

I don’t know if that’s the plan but I think they’ll go away from starting 2bigs.
 

Fishy1

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Because Smart >>>> Brogdon on defense, which is what the team is built around.
I really think the defense will be great either way.

You think the DPOY who is, ah, rather prideful, will accept coming of the bench??
Man, maybe I'm alone in thinking this is reasonable. I guess because he's come off the bench before? As recently as two years ago? He's thrived as a sixth man.


I don't get the assumption he and Smart can't play at the same time or both start.
I think this is another likely route. Start Horford on the bench. But what first came to mind was that Horford hasbeen vocal about wanting to start himself.

I'm really not married to the idea, just was an instinctual preference. I'd prefer Brogdon and Smart too start together but also figured the two bigs would be more likely to continue.
 

nighthob

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You think the DPOY who is, ah, rather prideful, will accept coming of the bench??
I think that Deputy Marcus will be fine adding a 6th Man of the Year award to his DPotY. He's going to be on the floor in closing lineups and still playing his normal time.
 

jmcc5400

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Because Smart >>>> Brogdon on defense, which is what the team is built around.
Also, the bench needs offensive punch. As others have noted, Brogdon and Smart most likely will be on the floor together at closing time, but Smart is a better fit with the starters and Brogdon with the bench earlier in the game.

Edit: Assuming only one starts.
 

oumbi

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They have definitely addressed the playmaking need Stevens identified in some of his post-finals remarks. Well done by him. It’s also liberating after years of hoarding draft assets to see the Celts use them to get some proven commodities. I’ll take this top-10 against anyone’s, and that’s not even taking into account the Jays continued upward trajectory and White getting more comfortable in the system.
A bold statement.
 

djbayko

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A good side benefit of this trade is that, if the Celtics do continue exploring TPE options, they won't have teams trying to fleece them because they while they're still in a "use it or lose it" situation, they don't need to use it to acquire that key missing piece now.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'd love it if he did, but would be unusual for a guy in his prime who's done nothing but start for years to just accept a bench role.

I mean, the Celtics felt they had to start Hayward right away coming back from his foot falling off.

I hope you're right, but I can't see it.
pretty different. In IND I think you have to let him start, just like Hayward, because that's a guy who had a role with your team and got hurt. but Brogdon is being traded, to a team that just went to the finals, and whose veteran PG won DPOY. In that situation in the NBA you don't get to walk into a team with that success and assume you'll start, you are coming in to show you can stay healthy, and then try to win the job.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The Celtics are well run. If they are planning on keeping Smart, they likely reached out to him as well as Brogdon. And if they didn't, that says something as well.

The idea that they are absolutely getting rid of Smart on the follow is either wishcasting by Marcus' many detractors here or anxiety on the small group of us who can tolerate Smart's flaws because of all the other great things he does.

Its really hard to see Boston just rearranging talent after a Finals that showed they were short skills overall.
 

mcpickl

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pretty different. In IND I think you have to let him start, just like Hayward, because that's a guy who had a role with your team and got hurt. but Brogdon is being traded, to a team that just went to the finals, and whose veteran PG won DPOY. In that situation in the NBA you don't get to walk into a team with that success and assume you'll start, you are coming in to show you can stay healthy, and then try to win the job.
I understand all these things, and yet if I were Malcolm Brogdon I'd think, yeah I'm in my prime and averaged 20 PPG as a starter the last couple years, I think I'm good enough to be a starter.

Maybe he's just an ego free guy, but I know if I were him I'd be thinking, I should probably be starting.
 

JM3

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Meh. Brogdon has played 92 games total the last 2 seasons. Smart played 92 games this season.

They'll both probably be closing games most of the time & getting 28-32 minutes per game & some semi-regular rest, does it really matter who starts? Some starters play like 12 minutes a night.

Personally I'd prefer they both start & Horford comes off the bench & rests for the postseason, but some of that depends on how good of a 3rd center they end up with.
 

ragnarok725

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The starting thing feels like the type of ego management that Ime was brought in for. It seems like he should be able to keep people in the right frame of mind and will have very little tolerance for selfishness.

At minimum you let it play out until the all star break or trade deadline. Players get hurt, things gel or not. The upside of this team with this depth clicking is so high you have to give it a chance and adjust if needed.
 

mcpickl

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Meh. Brogdon has played 92 games total the last 2 seasons. Smart played 92 games this season.

They'll both probably be closing games most of the time & getting 28-32 minutes per game & some semi-regular rest, does it really matter who starts? Some starters play like 12 minutes a night.

Personally I'd prefer they both start & Horford comes off the bench & rests for the postseason, but some of that depends on how good of a 3rd center they end up with.
To fans, no it doesn't.
To players, usually it does.

Just refer back to Al Horford last year. He talked multiple times about how important starting was to him.

Again, maybe Brogdon truly doesn't care. But that would make him an unusual cat.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The idea that they are absolutely getting rid of Smart on the follow is either wishcasting by Marcus' many detractors here or anxiety on the small group of us who can tolerate Smart's flaws because of all the other great things he does.
Smart will start and be the PG. They don't want to tear down what they built last year.
I understand all these things, and yet if I were Malcolm Brogdon I'd think, yeah I'm in my prime and averaged 20 PPG as a starter the last couple years, I think I'm good enough to be a starter.

Maybe he's just an ego free guy, but I know if I were him I'd be thinking, I should probably be starting.
I think it is highly likely that the Celtics sussed this out before making the deal. Obviously they aren't allowed to pick up the phone and call, but players are allowed to talk to each other and, reportedly, Jaylen Brown and Brogdon are close. I think Brogdon knew what he was getting into before it went down.

Someone noted that the Huerter and Brogdon deals went down at roughly the same time, suggesting that the Celtics might have been in on both.
To fans, no it doesn't.
To players, usually it does.

Just refer back to Al Horford last year. He talked multiple times about how important starting was to him.

Again, maybe Brogdon truly doesn't care. But that would make him an unusual cat.
This is very black and white. Starting is one thing players care about. Another is getting paid. A third is winning. A fourth is being on a team they like. Would Brogdon rather be 6th man on the Celtics... or starting for the Kings? I think different players would answer that question in different ways. But add in "injury prone" and "already gotten his big contract" and "never won anything" and "pushing 30" and I think all else equal a player is more likely to accept a 6th man role. Also, some players actually like the 6th man role.

Also, his opinion may change over time. But I think if he were really dead set against coming off the bench for a year, this deal would never have happened.
 
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radsoxfan

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My initial thought is that Brogdon is an upgrade on White more than stepping on Smart's toes. I suppose they can all co-exist, you can't have too many above average players, though I wonder if White gets squeezed out a bit.

A bit surprised DARKO has Brogdon rated so low on D, I thought he'd be a bit better there.
 

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Eddie Jurak

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My initial thought is that Brogdon is an upgrade on White more than stepping on Smart's toes. I suppose they can all co-exist, you can't have too many above average players, though I wonder if White gets squeezed out a bit.

A bit surprised DARKO has Brogdon rated so low on D, I thought he'd be a bit better there.
Interesting. Those numbers highlight why Smart isn't going anywhere and also why picking up Brogdon was so important for this team. I think they want to cut back on the Tatum/Brown workload a bit, and the Rob/Al workload, and also be able to play small more.
 

Royal Reader

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Is there anything better than being a fringe NBA player turned into salary ballast?

This doesn't happen in any other sport does it? These guys must be so effing-pumped when their agent calls and says they just doubled their career earnings (not true for Stuaskas of course) to help facilitate a trade going through.
It's definitely better than being the equivalent guy in the NFL, but man. Long hours spent working on your own, shooting in empty gyms, travelling the country bouncing between G-League teams and the back ends of NBA rosters. Not being able to provide stability for your family. Pumped probably doesn't even cover it.

This doesn't solve the six starters for five spots issue.

I know, as fans, we don't give a shit.

But it seems to be important to players.
I feel like I'm missing something here. At least for the regular season, surely they can do the equivalent of rotating guys through the DH spot? Jays always start when healthy, then it's 3/4 of Smart/Brogdon/TL/Al depending on matchups. Given the age/health concerns with both TL and Al, I'd expect both to start a majority of games when they're healthy. Even if they hadn't made this trade, I'd have expected some games where White started and they only had one big on the floor.
 

DisgruntledSoxFan77

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For those concerned he won’t be happy in his role with the Celtics (from HoopsRumors.com):


The 29-year-old led the Pacers in scoring last season with 19.1 points per game, but he says he’s ready to sacrifice his individual numbers to help the team get over the hump and win a ring.

I’m looking to win a championship, that’s actually it,” Brogdon said. “In the past, I’ve worried about stats and numbers and all that. I’m going to Boston and not worrying about that.”

Sounds to me like a man who knows and accepts his new role with his new team
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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For those concerned he won’t be happy in his role with the Celtics (from HoopsRumors.com):


The 29-year-old led the Pacers in scoring last season with 19.1 points per game, but he says he’s ready to sacrifice his individual numbers to help the team get over the hump and win a ring.

I’m looking to win a championship, that’s actually it,” Brogdon said. “In the past, I’ve worried about stats and numbers and all that. I’m going to Boston and not worrying about that.”

Sounds to me like a man who knows and accepts his new role with his new team
So Brogdon off bench seems likely and fine. These people who currently run Boston seem very focused on attention to detail. They likely don't do the trade unless they are comfortable that he will accept the role they envision for him.

Smart and/or White may still get dealt but more opportunistically for another upgrade versus simply clearing minutes for Malcom.

This team needs as much talent as they can get. The arms race in the NBA is in full swing and if Durant ends up in Miami, they still might not have enough.
 

Jakarta

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After the finals I thought the move the team most needed to make was something that pushed everyone from White onwards 1 place down in the rotation, and it would ideally be a wing. I think this is as good as could be hoped for given the options available. This essentially accomplishes the same this as acquiring a wing because its a guy with the size of a wing, but just means Marcus can play more minutes as a wing (even if he starts games as the PG).
 

radsoxfan

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So Brogdon off bench seems likely and fine. These people who currently run Boston seem very focused on attention to detail. They likely don't do the trade unless they are comfortable that he will accept the role they envision for him.
Brogdon is going to be 30 this year and will have 120M+ in career earnings once his extension is finished in 3 years.

Obviously these guys are never satisfied, but he certainly is in a place that he can afford to value winning and fit at the expense of raw stats.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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poor Aaron... still feeling the wrath of HRB:)

Just sign Bryant now and we'll have replaced 80% of Theis with a 5 on a vet min deal
All kidding aside…..moving on from the Aaron relationship is best for both sides. If he’s ever going to be a late bloomer like a Gerald Green it sure as heck isn’t going to be here as we’re in productive veteran role player mode……not handing out unearned minutes to help develop a young player. This was a breakup made in heaven.
 

CaptainLaddie

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where the darn libs live
Fun facts about Brogdon:

He has a master's degree in public policy
He has a charity that brings clean water to East Africa
He retains the first female NBA agent

This dude is woke. Sorry if that bothers you.