Brooklyn Nets 2016-17 (the Year of the Swap)

tims4wins

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Ohm Youngmisuk ESPN Staff Writer

Jeremy Lin has a strained hamstring. The Nets say he will be reevaluated in two weeks. Rookie Isaiah Whitehead, who had five points, four assists and four rebounds in 20 minutes the other night, could see a big boost in playing time until Greivis Vasquez and Randy Foye return.
 

CreedBratton

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It's a 25+/- win team. They'll be bad, but the coach is good and they have competent NBA players. They won't tank like most NBA teams but there just isn't enough there to keep them from being a bottom five team.
My fear is the Pelicans and the mavs suddenly look much, much worse than expected. I mean AD has no help but didn't expect Pelicans to be winless.

Also expected the Suns to be a tad better to start but Booker has been limited.
 

HomeRunBaker

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My fear is the Pelicans and the mavs suddenly look much, much worse than expected. I mean AD has no help but didn't expect Pelicans to be winless.

Also expected the Suns to be a tad better to start but Booker has been limited.
The Lakers are much improved also. Nice loss in Lin as he can carry them on certain nights. Every little bit helps.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The Lakers are much improved also. Nice loss in Lin as he can carry them on certain nights. Every little bit helps.
I think this hurts quite a bit. What I saw from Whitehead the other night against the Bulls showed me a guy with very questionable handle who is not ready for this expanded role. Without Lin's slashing and ball-handling they're going to struggle to get the volume of open looks they need. The other guys don't give much for opponents to think about.
 

Fishy1

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I think this hurts quite a bit. What I saw from Whitehead the other night against the Bulls showed me a guy with very questionable handle who is not ready for this expanded role. Without Lin's slashing and ball-handling they're going to struggle to get the volume of open looks they need. The other guys don't give much for opponents to think about.
This is exactly right. Bombs away is going to be difficult without Lin. Randy Foye is coming back, so that'll give them a little more depth, but he hasn't had a season with a FG% above 37% since the 2013 season. Greivis is also sidelined. Hopefully they'll rack up quite a few losses while Lin is out.

I think Kilpatrick is going to get a ton of run, and maybe even some at the point if Whitehead is doing nothing -- Kilpatrick can score.
 

tims4wins

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Now 3-5, 2.5 games behind the worst team in the league. Guessing this won't be a top 3 pick, but still hoping for 5-7.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Now 3-5, 2.5 games behind the worst team in the league. Guessing this won't be a top 3 pick, but still hoping for 5-7.
They look pretty good for what the expectations are however they have completed less than 10% of their schedule. Step away from The Tobin please!
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Wins over Indiana, Detroit (on a b2b), and Minnesota, all at home.

Right now the collectively 0-15 Sixers and Pelicans appear to be the only locks. Every other spot should be up for grabs among the next group, which includes the Nets.
 

reggiecleveland

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I will be at the game in Phoenix cheering against them. Wathed the SUn beat the Pistons last night. Suns are an energgy team and got it going. But without Jared Dudley going off in the 1st half they would have lost. Pistons seemed to getgood matchups, but didn't finish inside.
 

Havlicheck

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I will be at the game in Phoenix cheering against them. Wathed the SUn beat the Pistons last night. Suns are an energgy team and got it going. But without Jared Dudley going off in the 1st half they would have lost. Pistons seemed to getgood matchups, but didn't finish inside.
I watched Suns/Pistons as well, and was pretty impressed with the Suns youth: Warren, Booker and Len very impressive, as were the two young 1st round draft choices, Including Dragon Bender.
 

jmm57

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What did Bender do that was impressive? The box score is pretty ugly, all 0's except for; 8 min, the shot attempt's (0-4, 0-2 on 3's), 4 fouls and a turnover. Genuinely interested if there was something onscreen that didn't show up. I've been following his box scores, but haven't seen a game.
 

HomeRunBaker

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What did Bender do that was impressive? The box score is pretty ugly, all 0's except for; 8 min, the shot attempt's (0-4, 0-2 on 3's), 4 fouls and a turnover. Genuinely interested if there was something onscreen that didn't show up. I've been following his box scores, but haven't seen a game.
Amazing screens?
 

Havlicheck

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What did Bender do that was impressive? The box score is pretty ugly, all 0's except for; 8 min, the shot attempt's (0-4, 0-2 on 3's), 4 fouls and a turnover. Genuinely interested if there was something onscreen that didn't show up. I've been following his box scores, but haven't seen a game.
Mostly what Bender did against the Pistons was get minutes on the floor, earned by a good showing in Portland the night before. The Suns first five games he didn't get much playing time, the last two he's totaled 30 minutes. Amazing screens will come.
 

BigSoxFan

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Another Nets win. Looking more and more like an 8-10 pick, which still is pretty nice but would be a little disappointing.
 

reggiecleveland

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Bender is not ready to play ion the NBA. I will say that after two games. He really can't guard any position, and gets lost on team D as well. The Suns seem committed to giving him his chance each night, but he is developmental player now. Easy to see the potential, the kid is only 18, but how will he deal with getting abused.

Booker also did not impress me, but he has some numbers to show me he is good player, so maybe I saw a bad couple games. He forces a lot of shots and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson just flat out bent him over the prison bunk tonight. He gets burnt off the dribble a lot.

The Nets did not look like a 60 loss team. The moved the ball much pretty well and got a lot of wide open shots, granted against a young Suns team. Down the stretch they gave the ball to Hollis-Jefferson and he went by Booker at will, but if he didn't get to the line they rotated the ball 2nd, 3rd pass and got wide open shots. Scola also seemed more his old self tonight that at almost any point with the Raptors last year. Lopez is pretty good at center.
 
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oumbi

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Trade for kids and picks. And play any and all young players to see if they are part of the future. This year, wins and loses do not count, so why bother worrying about them? As a team, they should think of the future and beyond this season.
 

the moops

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Yea, they aren't getting any first round picks for their players anyway. So whether they finish with the worst record, or they show a little Spink and finish bottom 10, it's more or less the same. And at least they get to see what they have with their new coach and their mix of young and veteran players all while at least offering a semi enjoyable fan experience.
 

DJnVa

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Shout out to the 2 LA teams for knocking the Nets off twice. OKC, Portland, and Boston up next.
 

NoXInNixon

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There must be a team out there that would give an unprotected 2018 or 2019 first for Lopez.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
There must be a team out there that would give an unprotected 2018 or 2019 first for Lopez.

Portland? But if they don't improve their performance their pick could be in the lottery, where it would be more valuable than Brook to them probably. They will probably end up 6 - 8 seed, at the least, which would then make a Brook Lopez trade look good to them.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Really aren't many options out there.
For that exact reason, I never guessed the Celtics would get anything of note for Rajon Rondo, never mind a lightly-protected 1st and Jae Crowder. When you listed all the point guards, yeah, it looked bleak. But the right injury at the right time...you never know.

I'll be in the house Wednesday night. Nets rep has already called twice trying to butter me up I assume for a season package. Probably should try to work my way to better seats or something before the big reveal of being a C's fan when he tries to offer me a tour of the Nets locker room.
 
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ElcaballitoMVP

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For that exact reason, I never guessed the Celtics would get anything of note for Rajon Rondo, never mind a lightly-protected 1st and Jae Crowder. When you listed all the point guards, yeah, it looked bleak. But the right injury at the right time...you never know.
Yeah, I can see someone giving up a pick and a prospect for Lopez, but I don't expect either to be of much face value. Add in that Lopez makes $21M and it's tough to match up salaries for really any of the contenders.

Portland doesn't really match up with the salaries they have.
Cleveland can't match up without gutting their bench.
NYK don't have the salaries unless they move Rose, which would be a lateral move.
TOR doesn't really need him, nor do they have many salaries to match
GS can't make it work
HOU would have to gut their SF spot by including Ariza and Brewer to make it work
LAC don't need him
OKC doesn't make much sense

Even if a big goes down on one of these teams, it's going to be difficult just making the numbers work.

Ironically, the best deal I could come up with is from Boston. Something like Amir, Jerebko and Rozier for Lopez. Gives the C's a low post option on offense and gives the Nets a good prospect in Rozier. But I don't think the C's would do it.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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If he were a better rebounder I'd think about it, especially now that he's extending his range. Alas, he's not a particularly good rebounder, and I'd also guess that Brooklyn would be near impossible to deal with in that they'd almost certainly demand one of their picks back.
 

nighthob

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That is wishful thinking for a Celtics fan. There is no urgency to punt this season and help the Cs.
It's not a matter of "punting the season" to help the Celtics. Those draft picks are gone, not coming back, and were dealt away under a previous administration. The new one needs to concentrate on Brooklyn's future, not the optics of the past.

That being said their one asset is a center and that's one of those positions pretty flush in the NBA these days, and as the Sixers keep finding, it's not easy getting the moon for a center these days.
 

nighthob

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If he were a better rebounder I'd think about it, especially now that he's extending his range. Alas, he's not a particularly good rebounder, and I'd also guess that Brooklyn would be near impossible to deal with in that they'd almost certainly demand one of their picks back.
More practically Boston already has a center, they're looking for a PF.
 

nighthob

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Horford would wear down under the perimeter defensive chores. He can do it for bursts, but you don't want him doing it full time. So if you're bringing in a center it better be a huge upgrade. And Lopez isn't it.
 

reggiecleveland

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It's not a matter of "punting the season" to help the Celtics. Those draft picks are gone, not coming back, and were dealt away under a previous administration. The new one needs to concentrate on Brooklyn's future, not the optics of the past.

That being said their one asset is a center and that's one of those positions pretty flush in the NBA these days, and as the Sixers keep finding, it's not easy getting the moon for a center these days.
There is no real rationale for disagreeing with my post. The idea of making a trade that hurts them this year makes little sense as you explained.
 

nighthob

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There is no real rationale for disagreeing with my post. The idea of making a trade that hurts them this year makes little sense as you explained.
No, trading Lopez, who frankly isn't going to be part of their future makes perfect sense. You were clearly claiming that their final finish figures in their thinking at all, it doesn't. If they can't find a trade partner for him this season, they will find one for him this summer when the cap goes up again. The effect on the pick they're sending to Boston won't figure into their calculus at all.
 

RoDaddy

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I dunno, Lopez to Boston for say the C's number one in 2017 of what is expected to be a deep draft would be intriging. He's Brooklyn's best player and so his loss would likely catapult their, which would become our, pick to a top 5. So it'd be a win win for the C's this year who would be MUCH improved at the 4 and 5 compared with last year when they still won 48 games. And if the C's number one doesn't seem like enough, remember that Lopez is very injury prone on top of the high salary
 

tims4wins

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3 straight losses giving up 124+ points. 2 games back of the worst record in the league. Hopefully they only win like 1 more game in November.
 

CSteinhardt

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I dunno, Lopez to Boston for say the C's number one in 2017 of what is expected to be a deep draft would be intriging. He's Brooklyn's best player and so his loss would likely catapult their, which would become our, pick to a top 5. So it'd be a win win for the C's this year who would be MUCH improved at the 4 and 5 compared with last year when they still won 48 games. And if the C's number one doesn't seem like enough, remember that Lopez is very injury prone on top of the high salary
There's no compelling need for them to trade Lopez. If they're going to trade him, they need to get something back that has a reasonable chance to eventually turn into something more useful, and a projected late first doesn't seem to fit.
 

EJPats

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I dunno, Lopez to Boston for say the C's number one in 2017 of what is expected to be a deep draft would be intriging. He's Brooklyn's best player and so his loss would likely catapult their, which would become our, pick to a top 5. So it'd be a win win for the C's this year who would be MUCH improved at the 4 and 5 compared with last year when they still won 48 games. And if the C's number one doesn't seem like enough, remember that Lopez is very injury prone on top of the high salary
Celtics swap with Brooklyn in the 2017 draft. They don't get Brooklyn's pick and their own pick.
 

NoXInNixon

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There's no compelling need for them to trade Lopez. If they're going to trade him, they need to get something back that has a reasonable chance to eventually turn into something more useful, and a projected late first doesn't seem to fit.
More useful than what? As already pointed out, he's not going to be an important piece of their next playoff team. His present value to the franchise is near zero. Whatever they get for him in trade is a net positive. Their best bet is to go all in on the 2019 draft when they'll finally have their own first again.
 

CSteinhardt

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More useful than what? As already pointed out, he's not going to be an important piece of their next playoff team. His present value to the franchise is near zero. Whatever they get for him in trade is a net positive. Their best bet is to go all in on the 2019 draft when they'll finally have their own first again.
Yes, but we're talking about the kind of pick that not too long ago could still be purchased for cash. Heck, with the current contract structures, there's an argument to be made that a high 2nd is more valuable than a tail end 1st. You don't trade a useful piece who's selling seats for something of little value.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I dunno, Lopez to Boston for say the C's number one in 2017 of what is expected to be a deep draft would be intriging. He's Brooklyn's best player and so his loss would likely catapult their, which would become our, pick to a top 5. So it'd be a win win for the C's this year who would be MUCH improved at the 4 and 5 compared with last year when they still won 48 games. And if the C's number one doesn't seem like enough, remember that Lopez is very injury prone on top of the high salary
They already get the C's #1 in 2017.
 

nighthob

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Yes, but we're talking about the kind of pick that not too long ago could still be purchased for cash. Heck, with the current contract structures, there's an argument to be made that a high 2nd is more valuable than a tail end 1st. You don't trade a useful piece who's selling seats for something of little value.
The new salary cap has made first round picks much more valuable, due to the ability to lock players in for four years at pre-TV deal rates (the jump in the salary cap didn't effect the rookie scale). And if they can get a mid round #1 out of Lopez I suspect they'd do it in a heartbeat given the depth of the '17 draft.
 

CSteinhardt

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The new salary cap has made first round picks much more valuable, due to the ability to lock players in for four years at pre-TV deal rates (the jump in the salary cap didn't effect the rookie scale). And if they can get a mid round #1 out of Lopez I suspect they'd do it in a heartbeat given the depth of the '17 draft.
I agree that they'd take a mid-round #1 for the upcoming draft, but that's not what Boston can offer. For the upcoming draft, Boston projects to have no picks between the Nets (hopefully very early #1) and the early second round (MIN pick). Assuming that this team continues to develop more like what we expected from the large sample of last season and the offseason gains rather than the very beginning of the current one, it's also unlikely that the 2018 BOS pick will be a mid 1st; a late 1st is more likely. Note also that it appears likely that there will be some sort of revisions in an extended CBA in the near future, so the rookie scale might come into line with everything else again.

The closest thing to a mid-round #1 that the Celtics currently project to have would be in 2019, as it seems like a decent bet that one of the Clippers/Grizzlies picks will end up there.

So, that's the problem -- what the Celtics have to offer is likely a late-round 1st in 2018 or a possible mid-round 2019 pick, and neither of those moves the needle. The Celtics would probably have to offer both the Clippers/Grizzlies picks for it to make sense, and at that point it's a bad deal for Boston.
 

nighthob

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Oh, I wasn't talking about Boston offering on Lopez, I said above that Lopez isn't near as good as their existing center and they're not moving Horford off the spot for a worse player. I was just commenting that due to the temporary economics that first round picks are more valuable than ever (which I agree will likely change with the new CBA adjusting the rookie scale). The same way that players on old max deals went up in value with the cap explosion.

As for Brooklyn's potential trading partners, I think someone like Portland makes a lot more sense. The Lakers would too if they had anything to trade (they're obviously not giving up any members of their present kiddie corps). OKC is another team that could use him, but the Nets would need to gamble on Cam Payne not having foot issues.

Another possibility I could see is the T'wolves, but in that scenario the immediate return would be Rubio and a lottery protected #1 (with Pekovic making up the salary ballast). I could see Minnesota being intrigued at having a vet C to play the third spot behind Townes & Deng and help them make a move up the standings this year while they give the keys to Dunn at the PG spot.
 

Sprowl

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The Blazers blow away the Nets in Brooklyn. Thank you, CJ McCollum!
 

HomeRunBaker

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There's no compelling need for them to trade Lopez. If they're going to trade him, they need to get something back that has a reasonable chance to eventually turn into something more useful, and a projected late first doesn't seem to fit.
There is no compelling reason for us to trade for Lopez either. Ainge isn't going to block that max salary slot with Brook Freakin Lopez.

Anyway, this Nets team is nicely settling in to the team we all expected them to be now that Lin is out. Keep this train a rollin!
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Very soon, we're going to know a lot more about how excited we should be about the draft. It's all about the first 18 days of December. During that time they have zero back-to-backs, and their schedule is as follows:

vs MIL
@ MIL
vs WAS
vs DEN
@ SA
@ HOU
vs LAL
@ ORL
@ PHI

7 out of 9 games are winnable on paper, but there's still no timetable for Lin. If they win, say, 3 games or fewer we'll be in really good shape as that keeps them on pace for a win total around the low 20s, and gets them thinking about what they can do before the trade deadline and so on as the East begins to separate. And while I'd look at teams like Minnesota and Phoenix to improve later in the season, I think the Nets will once again start trending down in the final weeks as they rest Lopez (if he isn't traded) and probably Lin as well, and feed minutes to the likes of McCullough and Levert.
 

BigSoxFan

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Getting absolutely punked by the Pacers without George. I'm starting to calm down now about the pick.