Browns fired Lombardi/Banner, promote Farmer to GM, went after Jim Harbaugh?

Morning Woodhead

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This was my thought, too -- the talent is really pretty good (it ought to be, of course, given where they draft) and the Richardson trade was an outright fleece showing both an ability to cut bait on the previous regime's mistakes and get a great price to boot. And Campbell and Hoyer were both good reclamation types...frankly I thought the Browns were going in the right direction if they could get past their mixed signals dysfunction. But I sure as hell hope Pettine was a Farmer guy. If he is, then Farmer's inheriting a pretty good situation: decent talent, lots of picks, his own coach in place, and a situation where the owner really has to give him some rope....right?
 
 
 In typical Browns fashion, according to PFT, Farmer was not involved in the Pettine interviews. So a new coach at the bottom of the wish list, working for a new GM who didn't hire him.

Brownstown!
 

dcmissle

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Can Larry Fitzgerald in a Pats uniform be far behind?

That is interesting speculation that presumes that Peyton is anywhere close to retirement.

I feel very badly for Browns fans. Basically nothing has gone close to well for them since the team re-entered the League. And although much of that occurred on another owners' watch -- e.g. Big Show" Holmgren -- you get a McCourt feeling about this guy. NFL may be sorry they gave him the keys.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Even though getting rid of Banner was a good move the Manning talk boggles my mind. They truly are the undisputed Factory of Sadness
 

Tyrone Biggums

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RedOctober3829 said:
That Manning rumor is the saddest thing I've read today and that includes reading the Lost My Job thread.
At this point I feel bad even rooting against them when they play the Pats. At least the Red Sox before 2004 made the playoffs sometimes. They sucked...lost their team...got a team back....kept sucking
 

Tony C

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Morning Woodhead said:
 In typical Browns fashion, according to PFT, Farmer was not involved in the Pettine interviews. So a new coach at the bottom of the wish list, working for a new GM who didn't hire him.

Brownstown!
 
Wow. That brings this into the truly inane.  I can get justifications about cutting bait quick rather than not acknowledging previous mistakes, but this just shows there's no coherent planning process in place.
 

shoebooty

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They hired Pettine with not Lombardi or Banner being the final management say but Farmer having that decision
or
they let Lombardi and Banner hire Pettine, then fire them.

Either way it paints a franchise in disarray.
The NFL should always sit Irsay and Haslam together at every ownership event. Call it the Charlie Sheen table.
 

mauf

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shoebooty said:
They hired Pettine with not Lombardi or Banner being the final management say but Farmer having that decision
or
they let Lombardi and Banner hire Pettine, then fire them.

Either way it paints a franchise in disarray.
The NFL should always sit Irsay and Haslam together at every ownership event. Call it the Charlie Sheen table.
Only the latter scenario paints a franchise in disarray. The former paints a franchise which, for reasons unknown to us, wanted to introduce their new HC before sacking their FO. (Perhaps they thought the uncertainty would scare Pettine away.)

The incompetence of trust-fund babies like Haslam should never be underestimated (for an even better example, look at the Jets under Woody Johnson), but if the reports about Farmer turning down the Miami job are accurate, he must have known weeks ago that this change was in the works; it follows, then, that people in the know were aware of the pending change when Pettine was hired. And it follows from that that Farmer was pleased with the hire; otherwise, why not take the opportunity in Miami?

Unless, of course, the story about Farmer being offered the Dolphins' job is the erroneous one.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Tyrone Biggums said:
At this point I feel bad even rooting against them when they play the Pats. At least the Red Sox before 2004 made the playoffs sometimes. They sucked...lost their team...got a team back....kept sucking
They made the playoffs in 2002...and lost in Pitt by 3 points by giving up 22 in the 4th quarter. Even their successes kick their fans in the balls. Brutal.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Van Everyman said:
How was that a success?
Used to date a Browns fan. SJH is correct. Any season where they actually are watchable is a success. Look at Mike Polk Jr's stuff on YouTube it's gold. Sad but pure gold.

This of course would make Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel the Browns two most successful coaches since the team came back....think about that for a second.
 

Stitch01

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maufman said:
Only the latter scenario paints a franchise in disarray. The former paints a franchise which, for reasons unknown to us, wanted to introduce their new HC before sacking their FO. (Perhaps they thought the uncertainty would scare Pettine away.)
The incompetence of trust-fund babies like Haslam should never be underestimated (for an even better example, look at the Jets under Woody Johnson), but if the reports about Farmer turning down the Miami job are accurate, he must have known weeks ago that this change was in the works; it follows, then, that people in the know were aware of the pending change when Pettine was hired. And it follows from that that Farmer was pleased with the hire; otherwise, why not take the opportunity in Miami?
Unless, of course, the story about Farmer being offered the Dolphins' job is the erroneous one.
The Miami job, with the way they structured their organization, is just as terrible and is rumored to come with Philbin locked in so he wasn't going to pick his coach there either
 

Tyrone Biggums

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There's a story on PFT this morning about the rift between Banner and Haslem. Haslem wanted to entertain hiring Greg Schiano and Banner was strongly opposed. Good god. I guess on the bright side if they ever did bring in Schiano, Josh Gordon would be a lock to join the Patriots for a mid round pick. What a mess

EDIT: the Whisenhunt stuff is pretty interesting too.
 

dcmissle

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Regarding Whisenhunt, I don't know if we're talking about the same thing, but I heard this morning something along the following lines.
 
Whisenhunt interviewed for the job again and asked why he didn't he didn't get it last time.  Banner responded that he had not been  not bowled over by the coaching staff Whisenhunt was trying to assemble.  Whisenhunt replied, "what makes you think you're qualified to pass judgment on my coaching staff?"
 
The point was that Banner has been a business guy, a cap guy at most on the football side, and didn't know what he was talking about.  Which seems to be an accurate observation about the owner as well.
 
EDIT.  Interesting to me too is that BB called twice on Shiano's behalf.  Maybe he sees in Schiano's mis-steps in Tampa echoes of his own growing pains in Cleveland in the 90s?  And in any case, I don't know how Lombardi's fate figures in, but it would be interesting if BB calling on behalf of Shiano somehow triggered his friend Lombardi getting canned.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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maufman said:
The incompetence of trust-fund babies like Haslam should never be underestimated (for an even better example, look at the Jets under Woody Johnson)
An even closer example seems to be another NY owner, James Dolan of the knicks, the son of Cablevision founder/billionaire Charles Dolan and a meddling incompetent.
 

crystalline

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I thought Peter King's article was hopeful for Browns fans. Haslem is quoted as saying he knew Banner was the wrong guy so he wanted to make a change sooner rather than later. People keep saying good owners find excellent GMs and coaches and give them job security. Job security is important, but finding the excellent employees is more important.

Belichick going to the mat for Schiano is interesting and suggests Schiano is going to get another chance at NFL head coach somewhere. Good for him, I hope he learns from Tampa Bay.




SeoulSoxFan said:
An even closer example seems to be another NY owner, James Dolan of the knicks, the son of Cablevision founder/billionaire Charles Dolan and a meddling incompetent.
This is why we need a heavy estate tax. Being self made is generally good for society and puts incentives in the right place. Making money (like these guys and Irsay) principally because you were born with a big capital bankroll isn't helping the economy as a whole.
 

johnmd20

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SeoulSoxFan said:
An even closer example seems to be another NY owner, James Dolan of the knicks, the son of Cablevision founder/billionaire Charles Dolan and a meddling incompetent.
 
Calling Dolan an incompetent is offensive to all the incompetents of the world.
 

johnmd20

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crystalline said:
This is why we need a heavy estate tax. Being self made is generally good for society and puts incentives in the right place. Making money (like these guys and Irsay) principally because you were born with a big capital bankroll isn't helping the economy as a whole.
 
The estate tax was ex'ed out for one year, 2010. Which happened to be the year George Steinbrenner died. But right now the tax is 40% for estates in excess of 5.34 million. Stop with your nonsense, a 40% estate tax isn't the reson why the economy as a whole is good or bad.
 

crystalline

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johnmd20 said:
 
The estate tax was ex'ed out for one year, 2010. Which happened to be the year George Steinbrenner died. But right now the tax is 40% for estates in excess of 5.34 million. Stop with your nonsense, a 40% estate tax isn't the reson why the economy as a whole is good or bad.
 
Oh of course not, the estate tax likely has overall small real effects.  It's the principle of the thing--this is America where we believe in self-made men!  (More replies would be best in V&N)
 

dcmissle

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And Mike Lombardi's acumen grew 3 sizes this night ...
 

PedroKsBambino

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dcmissle said:
And Mike Lombardi's acumen grew 3 sizes this night ...
 
I'd expect roughly the same number of 'he'll be a valuable perspective' as 'he has a pretty bad track record, let's hope he doesn't mess things up'
 
How he compares to Floyd Reese...no idea.  I'd say his track record is a little less impressive..and his relationship with Belichick seems to be better.
 

dcmissle

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Never understood the venom sent his direction, but then again as a group we seem to despise almost everyone on television who announces or comments on games, so why should he be different?

It would be something if BB's efforts on behalf of Schiano really did contribute to Lombardi being shoved out in Cleve. Agree with the Reese comparison, but it's not as if that chair needs to be filled.
 

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I think Lombardi might be "VP of bringing over every piece of paper and information the Cleveland scouting department has".
 

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Haslam and Banner were also at odds over Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, according to insiders. McDaniels -- a longtime Lombardi favorite -- supposedly became Haslam's top choice, but Banner had his reservations.
 
McDaniels had been fired by the Broncos after a controversial reign in which he alienated some players and lost 17 of his last 22 games. He was also fired in large part because of a videotaping scandal. But Lombardi strongly felt McDaniels received a raw deal in Denver, and would excel in the right situation chance, much like his pal Belichick did in New England.
 
Shortly after the Browns interviewed McDaniels, a Canton native, he pulled his name out of the search, saying he was happy where he was. After the media portrayed McDaniels' withdrawal as another sign that no one wanted the "radioactive'' Browns job, sources told cleveland.com and other local reporters that McDaniels pulled his name out because he was told he wasn't the frontrunner.
 
The "frontrunner'' retort didn't sit well with some candidates or potential candidates, a source said.
 
But a McDaniels hire might've also gone over like a lead balloon. During the interview, NFL Network's Mike Silver wrote, “ ... when I read reports that former Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels might be the leading candidate to fill the Cleveland Browns opening, I feel like someone has just taken a tire iron to my skull.”
 
Within about 24 hours after McDaniels pulled out of the search, he called to get back in, sources close to the situation told cleveland.com. This was contrary to a report on NFL Network that the Browns called McDaniels and tried to lure him back into the mix.
 
Regardless, he remained in the running right up until the end, when the Browns hired Pettine on Jan. 23. In fact, he received the support and recommendation of Belichick right up until the 11th hour.
 
McDaniels was likely the "mystery finalist'' the Browns referred to on the day Pettine was hired, although they later said it was Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, who also hadn't yet been eliminated until Pettine agreed to terms.
 
 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/02/joe_banner_and_mike_lombardi_e.html
 

PedroKsBambino

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Shelterdog said:
I think Lombardi might be "VP of bringing over every piece of paper and information the Cleveland scouting department has".
 
One can imagine Belichick being peeved after Browns blew off his recs of McDaniels and Schiano and then canned his buddy Lombardi.  Not saying that is necessarily reasonable since lots of candidates do not get hired in any search, but it is an interesting combination of events.
 

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There's a cacophony of conflicting reports coming from Cleveland. I still think Haslan knew weeks ago that this is how his organization would look once the dust settled, and that Pettine is therefore Farmer's HC pick, but none of us knows the true story.
 

Dogman

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maufman said:
There's a cacophony of conflicting reports coming from Cleveland. I still think Haslan knew weeks ago that this is how his organization would look once the dust settled, and that Pettine is therefore Farmer's HC pick, but none of us knows the true story.
 
Yeah, we do. This whole ordeal is a microcosm of the entire organization. They are a disaster with a rudderless owner who seems to be up to his eyeballs in petty he said,she said bullshit. The actual truth is just detail.
 
I almost feel bad for Cleveland fans.
 

Super Nomario

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With Caserio interviewing for GM jobs this offseason, it's probably only a matter of time before he's gone. Having another veteran GM-type seems like a good backup plan.
 

shoebooty

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Farmer giving his blessing on hiring Pettine while Lombardi and Banner were still holding their titles is beyond bizarre.
Must've really been an awkward couple of weeks walking around those offices.
There is now enough evidence to suggest that to be a pro team owner having money is the only requirement.
Intelligence is optional.
 

Super Nomario

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shoebooty said:
Farmer giving his blessing on hiring Pettine while Lombardi and Banner were still holding their titles is beyond bizarre.
Must've really been an awkward couple of weeks walking around those offices.
There is now enough evidence to suggest that to be a pro team owner having money is the only requirement.
Intelligence is optional.
Apparently Farmer wasn't part of team interviewing coaches: http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/12/cleveland-browns-jimmy-haslam-fires-joe-banner/
 
The latest Browns’ shakeup handed the GM job to a man, Ray Farmer, who wasn’t a part of the four-man team interviewing potential head coaches.
 
Of course, that makes twice in two years a head coach was hired without input from the GM.
 

Shelterdog

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Lombardi is also probably cheap as hell to hire--depending on how his contract was set up the pats could probably pay him a nominal amount while Cleveland pays him  whatever guaranteed money he was owed as a GM. 
 

dcmissle

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Reported now on PFT that McDaniels wanted the coaching job till very end and that BB was vouching for him. We used to employ Kremlinologists for entities like this. And in other old news, 7 former senior executives of the owner's other business have pleaded guilty to federal felonies. Poor Cleveland.
 

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Jnai said:
Not that I disagree - because I often found Lombardi's "analysis" of players on Simmons' podcast to be kind of vapid and useless - but I do think people way underestimate how difficult it is to talk down to an audience and still sound intelligent, and actual football guys have to do that all the time.
I can't think of any examples either as podcasts are like sportstalk radio - completely of the moment and disposable.  As a guest though he expressed himself well, had some inside knowledge on management procedures, and was interesting to listen to with an opinion on players, etc. (it's also a chance for us west coast guys to listen to a Jersey/New York goodfella of which we don't hear much.
 
The big advantage now is that he just spent a year in the thick of things so he'll probably have some good relevant stories.  The bonus is that he might think he'll never be a GM again and will have little incentive to keep it close to the vest.  Good for listeners, particularly Pats fans as he's always willing to discuss the team and loves Belichick.