Bruins Acquire Pavel Zacha

[Red Right Ankle]

Yep. Agreed. Although, let's not pretend that high school is a guaranteed fallback for a lot of people, either. We all know plenty of people in our lives that went to high school and ended up in pretty poor spots.

The life he lived as a child (pre-teen) actually seems pretty fucking awesome. Tons of focus on music, art, sports, activities, healthy eating, spending time with his father. I think that's probably better than the majority of us ever get to experience.

The one thing that stood out to me - aside from the things you mentioned - was that he and his father lived 2.5 hours away from his mother. The only way Zacha could see her was if she drove to see him on the weekends. It was glossed over, but the implications seems to be that his parents were together, but the plans for Zacha moved he and his father away from the rest of his family. It's one thing to structure Zachas life the way his father did, but it feels like something different to put Pavels relationship with the rest of his family at risk to do it.

The story starts out with the dad telling the kid he had to be a professional in a sport. That's fucked up right off the bat. Oh hooray, he let him pick the sport he had to dedicate his life to becoming a pro in or risk disappointing his father while being separated from his mother and sisters by hours.

As others have pointed out, this is a "nice" story cause Zacha happened to be physically gifted enough to make it work and doesn't appear to be totally psychologically fucked up by it like so many kids whose parents take them on this route.

Had he been born with basically any physical disadvantages (poor sight, poor hearing, bad bone or tendon structure that makes him more prone to injury or just physically inefficient, etc.), how does dad react when failure inevitably shows up at the door? What if Pavel DID decide he didn't like sports? What's dad's relationship with his daughters after apparently neglecting them for years to focus on his son?

As for the point about some people not doing well even if they went to high school, the probability of success for people who attend high school is orders of magnitude higher than someone who dedicates their childhood and teens to becoming a professional athlete. Pavel, Jr. even alludes to it in the article:

“A lot of them are not doing as well,” he said. “They also put everything on the card of playing hockey. And without the school, the system back home wasn’t good enough. They quit school and started playing hockey and it didn’t work out. … Those are also the pressures.”

The guy made a lottery bet and it paid off - he even won the "my kid doesn't hate me for making him do this," parlay. Winning the parenting version of Powerball is not a good life plan, though.

 

[tonyandpals]

All those EHF parents with Instagram accounts for their 6yo players are drooling while reading this article.

 

[snowmanny]

Is this substantially different than Richard Williams, Earl Woods, Press Maravich, LaVar Ball, etc?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

It does and when I was a kid I would have loved this, I think. But I also don't have any actual talent at anything, so I would have been in the pile of flame-outs.

A huge part of what makes it awesome is that it worked. The story would feel very different if 9 year old Pavel had been just OK but is schlepping around Czechia, away from his mom and trapped with his tyrannical dad forcing him to hit 1000 backhands after he finishes two hours of edgework at the rink, only to ultimately lose out to kids who are simply more gifted athletes.

There are likely 99 other similar stories that NHL.com would have no reason to post.

Of course. Obviously it doesn't pan out most of the time, but the fact that it did should probably say something - what that is, I'm not sure. But the chances he would have been an NHL player had he simply done what most other kids do would be too much of a coincidence.

Had Pavel hated it, I'd feel different. But it sounds - and, of course the article paints the situation in a better light - he liked going to games and practices, he liked doing the work. If the father simply held him accountable when things got hard...well, thats his job.

It feels like a lot of the issues revolve around the idea that his father had no real backup plan for him, but that doesn't feel entirely true. They certainly had no real backup plan regarding an academic/education background, but the below would lend me to think that a person like this would be a really well rounded individual:

...Sports would merge with music, languages, being outdoors, painting or building blocks from toy kits all the time so that it was varied and interesting for the kid and the kid could develop and get better all the time...

...They usually finished with archery before heading back inside for imaginative painting and singing, accompanied by a guitar.

The ice rink was next, for skating or skills.

After lunch, the next stop was a nature reserve, biking and wading through the river, climbing trees and rocks, cooking on a campfire.

There were Legos and English practice.

I think we can all agree that academics and education is a really good foundational pillar for people to fall back on. However, As I've gotten older and dealt with my own kids, I'm starting to open up to the idea that it doesn't always need to be a necessary one. The majority of us lead lives far outside the realm of academics. How many of us have thought, "boy, didn't need my high school/college diploma to be good at this job"? Theres a lot of skills - confidence, teamwork, leadership, self-reliance, facing adversity, communication - that a person can learn from sports. Combining those things with language, art, music, and nature could very well lead to strong enough traits to be successful without needing to sit behind a desk for 12+ years of a kids life.

 

[Red Right Ankle]

He came to Canada barely speaking English when that was the second language he was most definitely going to need the most if he was going to be a pro athlete at the highest level. Kinda calls into question what this guy was teaching him and the quality of education being given for the other stuff, doesn't it?

And you can get a HS diploma and get all those confidence, teamwork, etc. skills. If your job doesn't require the writing, math, teamwork and other skills and knowledge that you learned in HS, then you are probably not getting paid much. 99% of people without a HS diploma don't start companies and become super rich or ever get paid much more than minimum wage (32k is the average as of 2020).

 

[wiffleballhero]

The fact that it pans out and makes for a good story just shows that survivorship bias is attractive.

BTW, I love Zacha's game and I am enormously glad he is on the Bruins for a long time to come.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

He came to Canada barely speaking English when that was the second language he was most definitely going to need the most if he was going to be a pro athlete at the highest level. Kinda calls into question what this guy was teaching him and the quality of education being given for the other stuff, doesn't it?

I have no idea if his father even knows English, which would be a pretty big deterrent for teaching it. I also have no idea if teaching a kid a second language should take priority over the other things he was learning. Since his son did succeed without learning a second language, why do you feel teaching a second language would have made him more successful?

And you can get a HS diploma and get all those confidence, teamwork, etc. skills. If your job doesn't require the writing, math, teamwork and other skills and knowledge that you learned in HS, then you are probably not getting paid much. 99% of people without a HS diploma don't start companies and become super rich or ever get paid much more than minimum wage (32k is the average as of 2020).

Do you know something I dont? You're acting like Zacha doesn't know how to write in Slavic or understand basic math. It appears he learned those skills - am I mistaken?

Do you get a better understanding of teamwork in math class than you do playing sports? I can't imagine you believe that.

As far as the HS Diploma thing...that's such a general statement you've made twice and reeks of confirmation bias. "People are unsuccessful without a HS diploma." Ok, well, what are the largest segments of people that don't get their HS diploma? Kids with intellectual deficiencies. Kids with hard home lives. Kids who "fall into the wrong crowd" (ie. drugs). Kids in urban environments with a lot more on their plate than calculus. You get my point.

These kids end up largely being unsuccessful, but the lack of a diploma is a symptom not a cause. At least not to the degree you're making it sound. And that says nothing about the bullshit concept of being turned down for a job you're qualified for simply because you didn't go to college or get a diploma. One of the things I've been super impressed with the younger generation - and that the workforce as a whole is starting to recognize - is their ability to break free from the shit my generation fell into. "Why do I need to go to college to make $200K a year as a programmer? I can take all these courses for free."

Im not defending Zacha's dad. I want my kids to go to college and get an education. But if he was given other skills to succeed if he had failed as an athlete - which the article (for obvious reasons) suggests he had - than I wouldn't say that this guy is some raging asshole. I'd tell him he was wrong and misguided, but that would probably fall on deaf ears of the man whose son reached all of the goals they set to achieve.

 

[Cotillion]

The fact that it pans out and makes for a good story just shows that survivorship bias is attractive.

BTW, I love Zacha's game and I am enormously glad he is on the Bruins for a long time to come.

There's a reason why this panel helps to really drive home surivorship bias, and the reality is it's the same as this with Zacha's dad. He was betting on a lottery ticket.

 

[Red Right Ankle]

I have no idea if his father even knows English, which would be a pretty big deterrent for teaching it. I also have no idea if teaching a kid a second language should take priority over the other things he was learning. Since his son did succeed without learning a second language, why do you feel teaching a second language would have made him more successful?

Well, if your goal is to get your kid into the NHL, teaching him the primary language he's going to be communicating him in is pretty fucking important. So, perhaps if his dad didn't know it, he should have sent him somewhere he could learn it? Like... I don't know... high school? Czech HSs teach English as a foreign language option and they start learning it in grade school, so he might have gotten pretty fluent in it, yeah?

Do you know something I dont? You're acting like Zacha doesn't know how to write in Slavic or understand basic math. It appears he learned those skills - am I mistaken?

Do you get a better understanding of teamwork in math class than you do playing sports? I can't imagine you believe that.

I know we are a sports board, but there are plenty of places to get all those skills at that age without playing sports. Never did theater or music - group activities that require close coordination amongst equals along with hard work outside the group in order to make the group outcome better? Sounds like a team, doesn't it?

Or you can get them working a job, in group projects at school, etc.

As far as the HS Diploma thing...that's such a general statement you've made twice and reeks of confirmation bias. "People are unsuccessful without a HS diploma." Ok, well, what are the largest segments of people that don't get their HS diploma? Kids with intellectual deficiencies. Kids with hard home lives. Kids who "fall into the wrong crowd" (ie. drugs). Kids in urban environments with a lot more on their plate than calculus. You get my point.

These kids end up largely being unsuccessful, but the lack of a diploma is a symptom not a cause. At least not to the degree you're making it sound. And that says nothing about the bullshit concept of being turned down for a job you're qualified for simply because you didn't go to college or get a diploma. One of the things I've been super impressed with the younger generation - and that the workforce as a whole is starting to recognize - is their ability to break free from the shit my generation fell into. "Why do I need to go to college to make $200K a year as a programmer? I can take all these courses for free."

Im not defending Zacha's dad. I want my kids to go to college and get an education. But if he was given other skills to succeed if he had failed as an athlete - which the article (for obvious reasons) suggests he had - than I wouldn't say that this guy is some raging asshole. I'd tell him he was wrong and misguided, but that would probably fall on deaf ears of the man whose son reached all of the goals they set to achieve.

He attended school until high school, so, yeah, he could read and write because the school taught him.

We have as evidence from the article that he was given high school level skills to succeed by his father.... nothing. We have as evidence that his dad's education wasn't very good that he didn't even make sure he learned one of the primary languages of the major and minor leagues of his sport. I'm gonna say dad focused mostly on the sports part when he was young and once he was out of school, the academics went by the wayside.

And, yes, I am aware that the 32k sample is biased because the vast majority of people manage to get a HS diploma. I don't think a kid who dropped out to play hockey is going to have a different outcome than someone who dropped out because they were in a poor situation because it's literally in the article that that was the outcome for his friends who dropped out to play hockey.

Regardless of whether they are "right" to or not, employers don't care that the reason there isn't a high school diploma on your resume is because you were working really hard at hockey. You won't even get a chance to explain that cause you won't get an interview. 32k a year (or the equivalent in Czechia) at a job that requires nearly zero skills is your most likely alternative to the pros.

This is one of those "poor" situations! A wolf in sheep's clothing and this fuckhead has written 3(!) books encouraging others to climb into the wolf's mouth because he has a system to get them out! That's the real problem here. Zacha may have failed at hockey and still been ok because his dad was a lawyer with enough money to drop out and try to make his kid a pro hockey player full time, but most people... they are getting eaten by that wolf, man.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Well, if your goal is to get your kid into the NHL, teaching him the primary language he's going to be communicating him in is pretty fucking important. So, perhaps if his dad didn't know it, he should have sent him somewhere he could learn it? Like... I don't know... high school? Czech HSs teach English as a foreign language option and they start learning it in grade school, so he might have gotten pretty fluent in it, yeah?

This is a pretty western view of hockey. Zacha could play professional hockey in the Czech Extraliga and make $200K a season. He could go to half a dozen leagues throughout Europe and make more than that. He could play in Russia for over $1M a season. His father's goal was for Zacha to make money playing hockey professionally, not - to my knowledge - only playing in the NHL.

I know we are a sports board, but there are plenty of places to get all those skills at that age without playing sports. Never did theater or music - group activities that require close coordination amongst equals along with hard work outside the group in order to make the group outcome better? Sounds like a team, doesn't it?

Or you can get them working a job, in group projects at school, etc.

I agree. It sounds like you can acquire skills to become a well rounded person through many different avenues.

Regardless of whether they are "right" to or not, employers don't care that the reason there isn't a high school diploma on your resume is because you were working really hard at hockey. You won't even get a chance to explain that cause you won't get an interview. 32k a year (or the equivalent in Czechia) at a job that requires nearly zero skills is your most likely alternative to the pros.

Honest question - When's the last time you had to apply for a new job? I've been at a handful of jobs over the last decade, never made less than 6 figures, and never once did I consider putting my high school on my resume. Nobody asked about my college education, and I only included it on my resume out of habit. I've seen resumes where people don't even include it. I think it's becoming less important than people realize.

This is one of those "poor" situations! A wolf in sheep's clothing and this fuckhead has written 3(!) books encouraging others to climb into the wolf's mouth because he has a system to get them out! That's the real problem here. Zacha may have failed at hockey and still been ok because his dad was a lawyer with enough money to drop out and try to make his kid a pro hockey player full time, but most people... they are getting eaten by that wolf, man.

You very well may be right. I haven't read his books, and if he's advocating to build no skills outside of sports, he's a shithead.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

The fact that it pans out and makes for a good story just shows that survivorship bias is attractive.

BTW, I love Zacha's game and I am enormously glad he is on the Bruins for a long time to come.

Too bad that he will never score again