Bruins Fire Cassidy

Dummy Hoy

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We covered a lot of this in a different thread.

Neely and Sweeney’s relationship does not extend beyond work. I also took a close look at Neely’s comments and broke them down- he doesn’t not want “dump and chase” as we picture the 1980s style but rather a more up tempo style with greater flexibility on zone entries and OZ possession.
I’m not saying they’re correct, and I’d probably rather see Neely/Sweeney go than Butch, but people are reading what they want to from Neely’s comments.
 

joe dokes

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We covered a lot of this in a different thread.

Neely and Sweeney’s relationship does not extend beyond work. I also took a close look at Neely’s comments and broke them down- he doesn’t not want “dump and chase” as we picture the 1980s style but rather a more up tempo style with greater flexibility on zone entries and OZ possession.
I’m not saying they’re correct, and I’d probably rather see Neely/Sweeney go than Butch, but people are reading what they want to from Neely’s comments.
But (to me anyway) its not just his comments, its the offseason moves, which are more planning-oriented than midseason ones. I could be forgetting, but it doesn;t seem like "tempo" was much of a part of their games.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I’m simply talking about his comments coming out of the CAR series. I think the linked thread is worth a read
 

Ferm Sheller

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The lead coaching candidate is Barry Trotz, who is a Winnipeg native and has already interviewed for the job.
Half the team is laid up at MGH for the next 6 months or so and they have some, but very little, talent as far as prospects go and no first rounder this year, so it's hard to envision him coming to Boston. An original six team but a fledgling one.
 

burstnbloom

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A bad move, but one they telegraphed. I'm not a huge Cassidy fan and I certainly think the team could upgrade the coaches room, but I have deep fears of what they do next. Marco Sturm's name is getting some buzz. That would be fun. Marco Sturm with Savvy in to run the PP?? I don't know if they'd be good but at least I'd like them.

(they are hiring Torts, FML)
 

j44thor

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Extend Frobot? Bring back Foligno? Are they still paying Backes? Lucic available?

But seriously....Neely, much like Joe Morgan, seems to forget that he is favoring the kind of player that he was a million times more successful than. Neely was big and strong, but he was no plodder. He was something of a unicorn in his day, and he seemingly doesn't realize that, and is trying to recast the team in what is *not* his image.
Sadly they are stuck with Foligno thanks to DS, this move is BS.
 

RedOctober3829

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Fluto


Who are some possible candidates to replace Cassidy?
The Bruins will hire a coach with a track record of working well with young players. Former Providence coach Jay Leach, currently an assistant in Seattle, should be first in line among candidates. Ryan Mougenel, who replaced Leach in Providence, will also be under consideration. Other candidates include Toronto assistant Spencer Carbery, former Rangers coach David Quinn and Providence College coach Nate Leaman.

https://theathletic.com/3352301/2022/06/06/bruce-cassidy-facts-bruins-firing/
 

PedroSpecialK

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Is it possible they shed some of the excess of Forbort, Foligno, Carlo, Wagner, etc and add some more quality? Possibly - they’d need to add futures to pull it off with any of their stiffs. But that would be admitting defeat on some very recent moves that clearly haven’t panned out. Not likely.

Could they hire a coach that plays an uptempo game to take advantage of the skating abilities of Pastrnak, Hall, DeBrusk, Haula, and their younger talent? Possibly - but Neely has outwardly said they want to play a lower tempo, dump and chase game.

Could they turn this around, make a smart coaching hire, navigate the draft and FA shrewdly, and retool into a contender? Possibly - but the track record is trending down, and Neely is looking likely to become Sinden 2.0.
 

burstnbloom

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I don’t know as much hockey as you experts here so I’m asking: is dump and chase a better style than what they’ve been playing?
Nope. The opposite actually. Modern data analysis have shown that dump and chase hockey is a quick way to lose.
 

amfox1

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Who are some possible candidates to replace Cassidy?
The Bruins will hire a coach with a track record of working well with young players. Former Providence coach Jay Leach, currently an assistant in Seattle, should be first in line among candidates. Ryan Mougenel, who replaced Leach in Providence, will also be under consideration. Other candidates include Toronto assistant Spencer Carbery, former Rangers coach David Quinn and Providence College coach Nate Leaman.
Makes sense, given the reboot. I'd add Marco Sturm to the list. I agree with Fluto that Sweeney will want his own guy, not a retread. Leach is well-known to many of the current players, Sturm played with Bergeron and Marchand. Carbery is highly thought of. Quinn obviously coached Gryz and MacAvoy. Leaman would be surprising, given his lack of NHL experience.
 

burstnbloom

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Who are some possible candidates to replace Cassidy?
The Bruins will hire a coach with a track record of working well with young players. Former Providence coach Jay Leach, currently an assistant in Seattle, should be first in line among candidates. Ryan Mougenel, who replaced Leach in Providence, will also be under consideration. Other candidates include Toronto assistant Spencer Carbery, former Rangers coach David Quinn and Providence College coach Nate Leaman.

https://theathletic.com/3352301/2022/06/06/bruce-cassidy-facts-bruins-firing/
Carbery is really interesting. He's young (40) won ECHL coach of the year, moved to Hershey where his teams were really good and he won coach of the year, then the leafs hired him this year. It's hard to get a full read on his style but I watched some press avails when Neely threw Cassidy under the bus and I was impressed. His team in the AHL was really strong defensively but also pushed the pace on the offensive size of the ice. He was the ozone and PP coach for the leafs this year. If you remember the leafs PP before Carbery, they were super talented but very predictable. If you took away Matthews' shot, they couldn't score (sound familar?) This season their power play was unstoppable.
 

Salem's Lot

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Nope. The opposite actually. Modern data analysis have shown that dump and chase hockey is a quick way to lose.
On the bright side, going to the bottom of the league was what finally brought regime change after the Thornton trade. Having this strategy blow up in their faces might actually get ownership to clean house again, and if we’re really lucky, Connor Bedard.
 

Bergs

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What should work in our favor is that we are 100% not hiring the best coach available this offseason since we just fired him.
 
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Salem's Lot

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Can't see any path to the number one pick absent crazy ass luck in the lottery.
If they hire a bad coach, play a shitty and outdated system, and have additional injuries to the ones that they already have? Sure there is.

Hell, there’s a legitimate shot that Coyle & Haula are the top two centers next year. That’s bottom of the league bad.
 

Ferm Sheller

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If they hire a bad coach, play a shitty and outdated system, and have additional injuries to the ones that they already have? Sure there is.

Hell, there’s a legitimate shot that Coyle & Haula are the top two centers next year. That’s bottom of the league bad.
Ugh, you just ruined my summer.
 

Myt1

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Ehhh. Cassidy played an old, crippled goalie in an elimination game because he lacks imagination. It’s tough for me to muster much sympathy, even if Sweeney is a larger portion of the team’s failures.
 

kenneycb

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I think Cassidy’s a solid coach and more or less reached his peak with this team. He’s probably in the low-second to third tier of coaches in my very unscientific evaluation so I’m not going to lose sleep over this. It’s not like the fired John Cooper. Obviously depends on what they replace him with but in a vacuum I don’t feel this is a bad move (also not a great move either).
 

Eddie Jurak

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I don’t know as much hockey as you experts here so I’m asking: is dump and chase a better style than what they’ve been playing?
I would first pay attenton to what Dummy Hoy says here - I doubt Neely is calling for a return to 1980s style dump and chase.
We covered a lot of this in a different thread.

Neely and Sweeney’s relationship does not extend beyond work. I also took a close look at Neely’s comments and broke them down- he doesn’t not want “dump and chase” as we picture the 1980s style but rather a more up tempo style with greater flexibility on zone entries and OZ possession.
To win in hockey, a team needs to possess the puck in the offensive zone. The offsides rule means a team can't pass it in, so the only choices are either to carry it in or dump it in and go get it. Better to carry it in since possession is maintained. But, knowing the blue line is an obstacle, the defending team will try to have its guys guard the blue line and deny entry. A lot of the various "trapping" types of hockey defenses involve having 3 guys up on the blue line trying to deny entry. Dumping and chase is another option. If the D is focused on the blue line, and the offensive team is attacking with speed, then they can just dump the puck in and maybe win the race to the puck (the defensive players are closer to the puck but facing the wrong way and moving more slowly). On the other hand, if the offense has just been stood up on the blue line and they aren't moving with speed, the defensive team is virtually certain to recover.

I think that in the modern game, the only value to dump and chase is as a way to loosen up the defense of they are overcommitting to the blue line and if the offensive team does it right.

But there used to be an old joke that was somthing like: Q:"How can you tell that the player on a breakaway is a Bruin?" A: "He'll throw it into the corner and muck for it."
 

joe dokes

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Getting a coach who can be better with young players is fine. The Bruins are not really a young team, though. Unless they know Bergeron is gone, and they are going to tear it down while the surgery gang recuperates.
Relatedly, I am far from convinced that this group can succeed with a new style. So, another point for replacing 10 players.
 

burstnbloom

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On the bright side, going to the bottom of the league was what finally brought regime change after the Thornton trade. Having this strategy blow up in their faces might actually get ownership to clean house again, and if we’re really lucky, Connor Bedard.
as far as silver linings go, this one is pretty grim.
 

Dummy Hoy

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But there used to be an old joke that was somthing like: Q:"How can you tell that the player on a breakaway is a Bruin?" A: "He'll throw it into the corner and muck for it."
My first year coaching high school we had a very bad team- the town had only restarted it's girl's hockey youth program a few years earlier, so the kids who were on the varsity team that year were pretty limited. We had a goalie who played college, and I'd say she was directly responsible for 4 of our 5 wins. Anyways...
It was so bad that we ended up giving about half the team explicit instructions- get it to the red line, dump it in and change. Wasn't too many game before one of my favorite players, a wonderful kid and a good student, found herself on a breakaway coming out of our zone...yup, she got to the red line, dumped it in, and came to the bench all smiles at me because she had done her job. I learned a couple of lessons there.
 

Frisbetarian

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I would first pay attenton to what Dummy Hoy says here - I doubt Neely is calling for a return to 1980s style dump and chase.
To win in hockey, a team needs to possess the puck in the offensive zone. The offsides rule means a team can't pass it in, so the only choices are either to carry it in or dump it in and go get it. Better to carry it in since possession is maintained. But, knowing the blue line is an obstacle, the defending team will try to have its guys guard the blue line and deny entry. A lot of the various "trapping" types of hockey defenses involve having 3 guys up on the blue line trying to deny entry. Dumping and chase is another option. If the D is focused on the blue line, and the offensive team is attacking with speed, then they can just dump the puck in and maybe win the race to the puck (the defensive players are closer to the puck but facing the wrong way and moving more slowly). On the other hand, if the offense has just been stood up on the blue line and they aren't moving with speed, the defensive team is virtually certain to recover.

I think that in the modern game, the only value to dump and chase is as a way to loosen up the defense of they are overcommitting to the blue line and if the offensive team does it right.

But there used to be an old joke that was somthing like: Q:"How can you tell that the player on a breakaway is a Bruin?" A: "He'll throw it into the corner and muck for it."
That's a nice description of how and why teams bring the puck into the OZ, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by, "the offsides rule means a team can't pass it in." I suspect it's a terminology issue. But as far as entries go, the data I see says that on average in 5 on 5 situations teams attempt to pass the puck into the OZ 13.2% of the time with a 70.4% completion percentage on those passes. They carry the puck in 39.2% of the time, and dump the puck in 47.5% of the time, with a relatively significant percentage of the dump ins made to facilitate a change of personnel. In 2021-22 the Bruins dumped the puck in 49.0% of the time, attempted to pass it in 11.6% of the time (with a 77.4% completion percentage), and carried it in 39.3% of the time.

I don’t know as much hockey as you experts here so I’m asking: is dump and chase a better style than what they’ve been playing?
I attempted to answer this question here.

For the record, I thought Butchie was a very good coach. I really can't talk about why I think this happened, but expect Butch to continue his successful career as an NHL coach.
 

Eddie Jurak

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That's a nice description of how and why teams bring the puck into the OZ, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by, "the offsides rule means a team can't pass it in." I suspect it's a terminology issue. But as far as entries go, the data I see says that on average in 5 on 5 situations teams attempt to pass the puck into the OZ 13.2% of the time with a 70.4% completion percentage on those passes. They carry the puck in 39.2% of the time, and dump the puck in 47.5% of the time, with a relatively significant percentage of the dump ins made to facilitate a change of personnel. In 2021-22 the Bruins dumped the puck in 49.0% of the time, attempted to pass it in 11.6% of the time (with a 77.4% completion percentage), and carried it in 39.3% of the time.
Roght you are on this one - I meant the more trivial observation that offsides rule limits what types of passes are available. You obviously can pass it in if it doesn’t involve someone going offsides.
 

NortheasternPJ

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This press conference isn't going well for Sweeney IMO. I give the media credit for holding his feet to the fire even asking flat out "Why was Bruce fired and not you or Cam?"
 

The Napkin

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Listen, it's important to note that Bruce didn't lose the room. But we had to make a change because we needed a new voice. What's so hard to understand about that?

Nice that there were some actual questions and follow ups. Good job media.
 

TFP

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I still haven’t heard a good reason for why he was fired. Don says they “need a new voice” but then said Bruce hadn’t lost the room and the players weren’t the driver behind this decision.

What a joke.
 

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JimD

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It's going to be so awesome to see another Buffalo team pass their Boston counterpart.
 

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lexrageorge

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Dumb move that does nothing to solve the real issue with this team, the utter lack of young talent outside of Pastrnak and McAvoy. DeBrusk had a decent half-season, but he's not the kind of player you fire a coach over.

And refusing to buy out Foligno is all you need to know about the team's "rebuild" philosophy. We're heading into some lean years, as I think it would probably require the team to miss the playoffs for several years before Neely is fired. I really wish John Henry was able to buy this team instead of the Penguins.